Minority kids are stupid

[flacaltenn]

That’s amazing... kudos to your daughter for doing an excellent job grooming our youth!

Sadly, that is the appropriate word when five year olds are learning the Gettysburg address and memorizing state capitols. "Grooming", not learning. Just memorizing and spewing, that's all. They cannot process that information. They do not understand how long ago one year was, let alone the Civil War. They do not understand how far away the next town is, let alone the next state.

Mac this is no remark on what kind of teacher your daughter is. She is probably having to teach in the iron grip of that Charter school and so it is. She is probably a phenomenal teacher. But that curriculum is not good for learning and ESPECIALLY not 21st century learning. I know that sounds like "liberal code buzz" or whatever but it's true. We don't need people who can memorize stuff that is meaningless to them.

We need people who can make meaning out of what was meaningless before. THAT take genius creativity. You don't get that by teaching five year olds the Gettysburg address.

I sense a terminal case of "charter school" envy here. Just because it doesn't fit the developmental models that your ed school pushed and the unions insist on..

It's a kick start for kids who CAN capitalize on the extra stimulation and does no HARM at that age for kids who aren't motivated by their early success..

As "they" say... Don't knock it til you've tried it and documented the results. And if there's one thing that American needs --- it IS results..

WTF is HEADSTART and PRE-K if NOT attempts to "jump-start" their little cranial engines?

Here's something to ponder: many European schools achieve way over and above our American schools and they don't even think of teaching "academics" until kids are seven years old. Let alone having them do horrid academic feats like memorize the Gettysburg address at five years old. (!!!)

Wanna know why? They know the research, and aren't into impressing dull brained parents.

But the reaction FROM the parents (dull brained or not) is REINFORCEMENT for achieving competency in using the TOOLS of learning.. You don't teach a carpenter apprentice to build the WHOLE house or cabinets. They learn to saw, paint, measure, sand before they even understand how the results are expected to look.. Nobody is getting fooled here. BUT -- I'm a fan of sneaking in a bit of tools learning and making it rewarding..

 

[Likkmee]

That’s amazing... kudos to your daughter for doing an excellent job grooming our youth!

Sadly, that is the appropriate word when five year olds are learning the Gettysburg address and memorizing state capitols. "Grooming", not learning. Just memorizing and spewing, that's all. They cannot process that information. They do not understand how long ago one year was, let alone the Civil War. They do not understand how far away the next town is, let alone the next state.

Mac this is no remark on what kind of teacher your daughter is. She is probably having to teach in the iron grip of that Charter school and so it is. She is probably a phenomenal teacher. But that curriculum is not good for learning and ESPECIALLY not 21st century learning. I know that sounds like "liberal code buzz" or whatever but it's true. We don't need people who can memorize stuff that is meaningless to them.

We need people who can make meaning out of what was meaningless before. THAT take genius creativity. You don't get that by teaching five year olds the Gettysburg address.

I sense a terminal case of "charter school" envy here. Just because it doesn't fit the developmental models that your ed school pushed and the unions insist on..

It's a kick start for kids who CAN capitalize on the extra stimulation and does no HARM at that age for kids who aren't motivated by their early success..

As "they" say... Don't knock it til you've tried it and documented the results. And if there's one thing that American needs --- it IS results..

WTF is HEADSTART and PRE-K if NOT attempts to "jump-start" their little cranial engines?

Here's something to ponder: many European schools achieve way over and above our American schools and they don't even think of teaching "academics" until kids are seven years old. Let alone having them do horrid academic feats like memorize the Gettysburg address at five years old. (!!!)

Wanna know why? They know the research, and aren't into impressing dull brained parents.

But the reaction FROM the parents (dull brained or not) is REINFORCEMENT for achieving competency in using the TOOLS of learning.. You don't teach a carpenter apprentice to build the WHOLE house or cabinets. They learn to saw, paint, measure, sand before they even understand how the results are expected to look.. Nobody is getting fooled here. BUT -- I'm a fan of sneaking in a bit of tools learning and making it rewarding..

Reality check. You are 100% correct

 

[flacaltenn]

That's what I've heard, anyway.

Just got back from a program in the kindergarten class my older daughter teaches at a Charter school. A class in which they know cursive, can read books, and can do third grade math by the time the year is over. In kindergarten.

Anyway, they recited all the states and the state capitols, both as a group and individually; they answered questions on American history and geography; they recited the first part of the Gettysburg Address. And they did one mean bunny hop a couple of times in between.

This class is about 80% black or brown.

This class isn't about your skin color or how much money your parents have. It's about maintaining standards and expectations, giving kids pride in their own achievements, and holding them accountable for their actions.

I'll bet we all know this. Some just refuse to admit it.
.

That's sad and awful. The kids are five and they're doing third grade math? They "know cursive"? They're forced to memorize information they can't even process, like state capitols and the Gettysburg address? At FIVE YEARS OLD. They're spewing trained material and that's it. They understand NONE of it.

This is the problem with charter schools. This stuff looks impressive if you have NO IDEA what kids should really be learning at that age, how they learn, what they retain or what. You will keep a few learners if you keep that up, but lose a WHOLE lot more. Because that's miserable for those kids.

Yeah.. That may be true, BUT -- they are learning the TOOLS of learning.. And to appreciate that feeling of accomplishment.. There are no losers here. There's a discipline to learning and it's never too young to expose children to that...

It's been amazing watching the pushback on this.

The kids are being taught in a variety of ways, standards and expectations are strong, the kids are responding, and they have a bright educational future.

All in a low-income, high-minority area.

I think that's pretty fantastic. Clearly some don't.
.

Exactly,.. standards and expectations need to be strong. Not the lowered expectations that my Uncle/Aunt fought against in the NYCity school system as principals of some the WORSE schools in the networks. But that's a losing battle if the kids weren't PREPPED to learn.. Teachers are constantly playing catch-up with remedial work because it did not stick the 1st/2nd times or it was skipped because of "low expectations"..

AND NOW -- according to the ed school pros and govt -- we need Universal PRE-K so that they can drink more milk and juice and learn to nap and line up earlier... Along with being totally educated as to the 17 types of gender diversity and fluidity...

My uncle would draft me to come to work with him when we visited. Wanted to show me how "pampered" I was in my utopian beach community high school.. Made a huge impression.. As did pictures of his 2 "stripped cars" and the scars from knife wounds that he took... It was "eye-popping" "jaw dropping" -- insert appalled meme here...

 

[flacaltenn]

That’s amazing... kudos to your daughter for doing an excellent job grooming our youth!

Sadly, that is the appropriate word when five year olds are learning the Gettysburg address and memorizing state capitols. "Grooming", not learning. Just memorizing and spewing, that's all. They cannot process that information. They do not understand how long ago one year was, let alone the Civil War. They do not understand how far away the next town is, let alone the next state.

Mac this is no remark on what kind of teacher your daughter is. She is probably having to teach in the iron grip of that Charter school and so it is. She is probably a phenomenal teacher. But that curriculum is not good for learning and ESPECIALLY not 21st century learning. I know that sounds like "liberal code buzz" or whatever but it's true. We don't need people who can memorize stuff that is meaningless to them.

We need people who can make meaning out of what was meaningless before. THAT take genius creativity. You don't get that by teaching five year olds the Gettysburg address.

I sense a terminal case of "charter school" envy here. Just because it doesn't fit the developmental models that your ed school pushed and the unions insist on..

It's a kick start for kids who CAN capitalize on the extra stimulation and does no HARM at that age for kids who aren't motivated by their early success..

As "they" say... Don't knock it til you've tried it and documented the results. And if there's one thing that American needs --- it IS results..

WTF is HEADSTART and PRE-K if NOT attempts to "jump-start" their little cranial engines?

I wish all of you educator wannabes would realize the unions have zero input on curriculum in public schools. You continuously propagate this lie out of ignorance.

Then WHY is on-line targeted learning companies and resources a constant THREAT to the unions? Or charters? or Vouchers?

Don't tell me that all has to do with money. It has to do with filling their ranks..

In Cali -- the Unions were the FULL FORCE behind expanding ESLanguage teaching to RIDICULOUS levels. They were demanding Advanced Placement courses in HIGH school be taught in multiple languages. Now if you're taking Chemistry, Physics, or Calculus -- YOU'D THINK --- the kids should ALREADY be English proficient -- BUT NO -- they wanted MORE classes --- ergo MORE TEACHERS, less access to AP classes by white privileged kids...

 

[Issa]

That's what I've heard, anyway.

Just got back from a program in the kindergarten class my older daughter teaches at a Charter school. A class in which they know cursive, can read books, and can do third grade math by the time the year is over. In kindergarten.

Anyway, they recited all the states and the state capitols, both as a group and individually; they answered questions on American history and geography; they recited the first part of the Gettysburg Address. And they did one mean bunny hop a couple of times in between.

This class is about 80% black or brown.

This class isn't about your skin color or how much money your parents have. It's about maintaining standards and expectations, giving kids pride in their own achievements, and holding them accountable for their actions.

I'll bet we all know this. Some just refuse to admit it.
.

I knew so much about US history, geography and other countries as well....more than most Americans and that was in junior high overseas.
Till this day I still remember those classes, and I dont get shocked anymore when kids here dont know much about the US or the world.

 

[SweetSue92]

That’s amazing... kudos to your daughter for doing an excellent job grooming our youth!

Sadly, that is the appropriate word when five year olds are learning the Gettysburg address and memorizing state capitols. "Grooming", not learning. Just memorizing and spewing, that's all. They cannot process that information. They do not understand how long ago one year was, let alone the Civil War. They do not understand how far away the next town is, let alone the next state.

Mac this is no remark on what kind of teacher your daughter is. She is probably having to teach in the iron grip of that Charter school and so it is. She is probably a phenomenal teacher. But that curriculum is not good for learning and ESPECIALLY not 21st century learning. I know that sounds like "liberal code buzz" or whatever but it's true. We don't need people who can memorize stuff that is meaningless to them.

We need people who can make meaning out of what was meaningless before. THAT take genius creativity. You don't get that by teaching five year olds the Gettysburg address.

I sense a terminal case of "charter school" envy here. Just because it doesn't fit the developmental models that your ed school pushed and the unions insist on..

It's a kick start for kids who CAN capitalize on the extra stimulation and does no HARM at that age for kids who aren't motivated by their early success..

As "they" say... Don't knock it til you've tried it and documented the results. And if there's one thing that American needs --- it IS results..

WTF is HEADSTART and PRE-K if NOT attempts to "jump-start" their little cranial engines?

You'd be dead wrong there. I'm a public school teacher but I don't belong to the NEA or my local union and I'm all in favor of charter schools, private schools, home schools or ANY schools if they work.

Is this better than nothing? Marginally. So you will see marginal results. And that is not based on "ed school" whatever. It's based on brain development, which is not "ed school"

Well sorry about that. You're more open-minded than your previous posts suggest.. Here's the amateur take-away -- although I've volunteered for Head Start, done a lot of GRE and middle/high school math/science tutoring, and taught 12 yr old Sunday School on families and dating.. The latter one was REALLY REALLY hard and that's why the ADULTS hired me as a college freshman/sophomore to do the "embarrassing stuff"... LOL...

Brain development is what the GOAL is here as I see it. You're making SOLID connections between the basic tasks of absorbing knowledge and the feeling of success. Gotz nothing to do with structured, layered knowledge of the topic..

I've seen a lot 12 yr olds who recite the Gettysburg Address and have NO INTENTION of retaining it or fully understand the meaning. I've seen "professionals" attempt to tackle sex education with primary grade curriculum. NEITHER of those things are gonna be successful as "comprehensive knowledge" of the topics. Especially true in the math mess that "ed schools" have created by INTIMIDATING kids to learn 5 ways to solve a math problem without stressing the ONE WAY --- that ALWAYS works EXACTLY. I've gotten kids out of jams where they got marked down for "approximating wrong" and no freaking idea how to get the EXACT answer..

So -- that's why I see no harm in building memorization skills, public addressing, and fun creative ways to use the tools of learning at any age.

My parents used to listen to a lot of Sinatra.. And I learned to sing a couple of tunes at about 8 yrs old. Parents used to take me to a corner Italian place where they knew a lot of people. Dad would give me a sip of beer and I'd wander down the rows of booths singing Volari in botched Italian.. Cracked everybody up and the owner would come out and sing with me. The fact that I remember the thrill of "entertaining" adults with that meaningless learning means it made an impression on me. And I ENJOYED school and learning. That's a lot of the battle right there...

PS -- neither me or the family was Italian...

You won't catch me defending meaningless memorization with pointless "understanding" way beyond their years either....which is what I guess what this math "solve the problem five ways" is intending to do. I think it's a hot mess personally.

I would say about the Sinatra that music makes a lot of things more pleasant but that's a whole 'nother topic. A whole 'nother topic is the fact that enjoying school and learning is not really a bad thing. Especially when you're five and six years old--that is, Kindergarten, the OP age.

 

[SweetSue92]

That’s amazing... kudos to your daughter for doing an excellent job grooming our youth!

Sadly, that is the appropriate word when five year olds are learning the Gettysburg address and memorizing state capitols. "Grooming", not learning. Just memorizing and spewing, that's all. They cannot process that information. They do not understand how long ago one year was, let alone the Civil War. They do not understand how far away the next town is, let alone the next state.

Mac this is no remark on what kind of teacher your daughter is. She is probably having to teach in the iron grip of that Charter school and so it is. She is probably a phenomenal teacher. But that curriculum is not good for learning and ESPECIALLY not 21st century learning. I know that sounds like "liberal code buzz" or whatever but it's true. We don't need people who can memorize stuff that is meaningless to them.

We need people who can make meaning out of what was meaningless before. THAT take genius creativity. You don't get that by teaching five year olds the Gettysburg address.

I sense a terminal case of "charter school" envy here. Just because it doesn't fit the developmental models that your ed school pushed and the unions insist on..

It's a kick start for kids who CAN capitalize on the extra stimulation and does no HARM at that age for kids who aren't motivated by their early success..

As "they" say... Don't knock it til you've tried it and documented the results. And if there's one thing that American needs --- it IS results..

WTF is HEADSTART and PRE-K if NOT attempts to "jump-start" their little cranial engines?

Here's something to ponder: many European schools achieve way over and above our American schools and they don't even think of teaching "academics" until kids are seven years old. Let alone having them do horrid academic feats like memorize the Gettysburg address at five years old. (!!!)

Wanna know why? They know the research, and aren't into impressing dull brained parents.

But the reaction FROM the parents (dull brained or not) is REINFORCEMENT for achieving competency in using the TOOLS of learning.. You don't teach a carpenter apprentice to build the WHOLE house or cabinets. They learn to saw, paint, measure, sand before they even understand how the results are expected to look.. Nobody is getting fooled here. BUT -- I'm a fan of sneaking in a bit of tools learning and making it rewarding..

This whole thread has been about how five year olds memorizing a text as meaningless to them as the Gettysburg Address is less than impressive. As a "tool of learning" it does nothing other than display that young children have a quick propensity to memorize. That's it.

 

[SweetSue92]

That's what I've heard, anyway.

Just got back from a program in the kindergarten class my older daughter teaches at a Charter school. A class in which they know cursive, can read books, and can do third grade math by the time the year is over. In kindergarten.

Anyway, they recited all the states and the state capitols, both as a group and individually; they answered questions on American history and geography; they recited the first part of the Gettysburg Address. And they did one mean bunny hop a couple of times in between.

This class is about 80% black or brown.

This class isn't about your skin color or how much money your parents have. It's about maintaining standards and expectations, giving kids pride in their own achievements, and holding them accountable for their actions.

I'll bet we all know this. Some just refuse to admit it.
.

That's sad and awful. The kids are five and they're doing third grade math? They "know cursive"? They're forced to memorize information they can't even process, like state capitols and the Gettysburg address? At FIVE YEARS OLD. They're spewing trained material and that's it. They understand NONE of it.

This is the problem with charter schools. This stuff looks impressive if you have NO IDEA what kids should really be learning at that age, how they learn, what they retain or what. You will keep a few learners if you keep that up, but lose a WHOLE lot more. Because that's miserable for those kids.

Yeah.. That may be true, BUT -- they are learning the TOOLS of learning.. And to appreciate that feeling of accomplishment.. There are no losers here. There's a discipline to learning and it's never too young to expose children to that...

It's been amazing watching the pushback on this.

The kids are being taught in a variety of ways, standards and expectations are strong, the kids are responding, and they have a bright educational future.

All in a low-income, high-minority area.

I think that's pretty fantastic. Clearly some don't.
.

Exactly,.. standards and expectations need to be strong. Not the lowered expectations that my Uncle/Aunt fought against in the NYCity school system as principals of some the WORSE schools in the networks. But that's a losing battle if the kids weren't PREPPED to learn.. Teachers are constantly playing catch-up with remedial work because it did not stick the 1st/2nd times or it was skipped because of "low expectations"..

AND NOW -- according to the ed school pros and govt -- we need Universal PRE-K so that they can drink more milk and juice and learn to nap and line up earlier... Along with being totally educated as to the 17 types of gender diversity and fluidity...

My uncle would draft me to come to work with him when we visited. Wanted to show me how "pampered" I was in my utopian beach community high school.. Made a huge impression.. As did pictures of his 2 "stripped cars" and the scars from knife wounds that he took... It was "eye-popping" "jaw dropping" -- insert appalled meme here...

You said, "And now we need universal pre-K so that they can drink more milk and juice and learn to nap and line up earlier"

And then you gave examples of stripped cars and knife wounds. The kids who end up in stripped cars and knife wound schools come to kindergarten never ever having had a regular nap or rest time in their life, and maybe no set place to sleep either.

They do not know how to drink juice or have snacks at a table with other children. How to share. To line up. To get their needs met in any kind of orderly way.

So you are exactly correct. If you don't do this in universal Pre-K, then Kindergarten is exactly what kindergarten is in TOO many US schools all over the nation: it is raising children. It is teaching them to put on boots, zip jackets, ASK for toys rather than rip them out of hands, open juice boxes and line up.

This is where American teachers are in 2019, and yet we get blamed for the total breakdown of the culture, family, and nation.

And people wonder why there's a teacher shortage.

 

[SweetSue92]

I noticed in the OP that children are also reading. Early reading, if it is encouraged but not forced, is always a plus. Because from that of course you make meaning.

 

[Unkotare]

That’s amazing... kudos to your daughter for doing an excellent job grooming our youth!

Sadly, that is the appropriate word when five year olds are learning the Gettysburg address and memorizing state capitols. "Grooming", not learning. Just memorizing and spewing, that's all. They cannot process that information. They do not understand how long ago one year was, let alone the Civil War. They do not understand how far away the next town is, let alone the next state.

Mac this is no remark on what kind of teacher your daughter is. She is probably having to teach in the iron grip of that Charter school and so it is. She is probably a phenomenal teacher. But that curriculum is not good for learning and ESPECIALLY not 21st century learning. I know that sounds like "liberal code buzz" or whatever but it's true. We don't need people who can memorize stuff that is meaningless to them.

We need people who can make meaning out of what was meaningless before. THAT take genius creativity. You don't get that by teaching five year olds the Gettysburg address.

I sense a terminal case of "charter school" envy here. Just because it doesn't fit the developmental models that your ed school pushed and the unions insist on..

It's a kick start for kids who CAN capitalize on the extra stimulation and does no HARM at that age for kids who aren't motivated by their early success..

As "they" say... Don't knock it til you've tried it and documented the results. And if there's one thing that American needs --- it IS results..

WTF is HEADSTART and PRE-K if NOT attempts to "jump-start" their little cranial engines?

I wish all of you educator wannabes would realize the unions have zero input on curriculum in public schools. You continuously propagate this lie out of ignorance.

...

In Cali -- the Unions were the FULL FORCE behind expanding ESLanguage teaching to RIDICULOUS levels. They were demanding Advanced Placement courses in HIGH school be taught in multiple languages. ...

That’s not ESL, it’s Bilingual Ed.

 

[Andylusion]

That's what I've heard, anyway.

Just got back from a program in the kindergarten class my older daughter teaches at a Charter school. A class in which they know cursive, can read books, and can do third grade math by the time the year is over. In kindergarten.

Anyway, they recited all the states and the state capitols, both as a group and individually; they answered questions on American history and geography; they recited the first part of the Gettysburg Address. And they did one mean bunny hop a couple of times in between.

This class is about 80% black or brown.

This class isn't about your skin color or how much money your parents have. It's about maintaining standards and expectations, giving kids pride in their own achievements, and holding them accountable for their actions.

I'll bet we all know this. Some just refuse to admit it.
.

Yeah, all true. Nothing to do with money. Nothing to do with color. Everything to do with standards and expectations, accountability, and achievement.

Right, right, right, and right. If the rest of the country would grasp that, we could solve many problems.

 

[Mac1958]

That's what I've heard, anyway.

Just got back from a program in the kindergarten class my older daughter teaches at a Charter school. A class in which they know cursive, can read books, and can do third grade math by the time the year is over. In kindergarten.

Anyway, they recited all the states and the state capitols, both as a group and individually; they answered questions on American history and geography; they recited the first part of the Gettysburg Address. And they did one mean bunny hop a couple of times in between.

This class is about 80% black or brown.

This class isn't about your skin color or how much money your parents have. It's about maintaining standards and expectations, giving kids pride in their own achievements, and holding them accountable for their actions.

I'll bet we all know this. Some just refuse to admit it.
.

That's sad and awful. The kids are five and they're doing third grade math? They "know cursive"? They're forced to memorize information they can't even process, like state capitols and the Gettysburg address? At FIVE YEARS OLD. They're spewing trained material and that's it. They understand NONE of it.

This is the problem with charter schools. This stuff looks impressive if you have NO IDEA what kids should really be learning at that age, how they learn, what they retain or what. You will keep a few learners if you keep that up, but lose a WHOLE lot more. Because that's miserable for those kids.

Yeah.. That may be true, BUT -- they are learning the TOOLS of learning.. And to appreciate that feeling of accomplishment.. There are no losers here. There's a discipline to learning and it's never too young to expose children to that...

It's been amazing watching the pushback on this.

The kids are being taught in a variety of ways, standards and expectations are strong, the kids are responding, and they have a bright educational future.

All in a low-income, high-minority area.

I think that's pretty fantastic. Clearly some don't.
.

Exactly,.. standards and expectations need to be strong. Not the lowered expectations that my Uncle/Aunt fought against in the NYCity school system as principals of some the WORSE schools in the networks. But that's a losing battle if the kids weren't PREPPED to learn.. Teachers are constantly playing catch-up with remedial work because it did not stick the 1st/2nd times or it was skipped because of "low expectations"..

AND NOW -- according to the ed school pros and govt -- we need Universal PRE-K so that they can drink more milk and juice and learn to nap and line up earlier... Along with being totally educated as to the 17 types of gender diversity and fluidity...

My uncle would draft me to come to work with him when we visited. Wanted to show me how "pampered" I was in my utopian beach community high school.. Made a huge impression.. As did pictures of his 2 "stripped cars" and the scars from knife wounds that he took... It was "eye-popping" "jaw dropping" -- insert appalled meme here...

My daughter definitely sees the spectrum. Some kids show up with a decent amount of knowledge and some semblance of self control. And then there are other kids who have been raised in freaking disaster and are just a mess. No knowledge of numbers or letters, no self control, really, really bad. It's tough on her.

Then this creates a terrible imbalance in the teaching/learning process, since you can't neglect the better kids to focus your attention on the more damaged kids. NOT when you're doing reading and writing and history and not finger painting and drawing and dancing.

I could definitely be wrong on the details here, but I think she's said that they actually have some parts of the day where they mix kids from different grades by their intellectual level and not by grade or age, so that they can keep them challenged and growing.

I wish I could post a video of her class. It's astonishing. Nothing like the kindergarten I went to, that's for damn sure.
.

 

[Mac1958]

That's what I've heard, anyway.

Just got back from a program in the kindergarten class my older daughter teaches at a Charter school. A class in which they know cursive, can read books, and can do third grade math by the time the year is over. In kindergarten.

Anyway, they recited all the states and the state capitols, both as a group and individually; they answered questions on American history and geography; they recited the first part of the Gettysburg Address. And they did one mean bunny hop a couple of times in between.

This class is about 80% black or brown.

This class isn't about your skin color or how much money your parents have. It's about maintaining standards and expectations, giving kids pride in their own achievements, and holding them accountable for their actions.

I'll bet we all know this. Some just refuse to admit it.
.

Yeah, all true. Nothing to do with money. Nothing to do with color. Everything to do with standards and expectations, accountability, and achievement.

Right, right, right, and right. If the rest of the country would grasp that, we could solve many problems.

The pay could damn well be better. Yesterday she came by the house, having just bought a freaking bookcase for her class. She was gathering up the books she and her sister had read when they were kids and was going to buy more. If budgets are so damn tight at schools that teachers have to buy raw materials, they could pay these people more.

I don't see any excuse for that.
.

 

[SweetSue92]

That's what I've heard, anyway.

Just got back from a program in the kindergarten class my older daughter teaches at a Charter school. A class in which they know cursive, can read books, and can do third grade math by the time the year is over. In kindergarten.

Anyway, they recited all the states and the state capitols, both as a group and individually; they answered questions on American history and geography; they recited the first part of the Gettysburg Address. And they did one mean bunny hop a couple of times in between.

This class is about 80% black or brown.

This class isn't about your skin color or how much money your parents have. It's about maintaining standards and expectations, giving kids pride in their own achievements, and holding them accountable for their actions.

I'll bet we all know this. Some just refuse to admit it.
.

Yeah, all true. Nothing to do with money. Nothing to do with color. Everything to do with standards and expectations, accountability, and achievement.

Right, right, right, and right. If the rest of the country would grasp that, we could solve many problems.

The pay could damn well be better. Yesterday she came by the house, having just bought a freaking bookcase for her class. She was gathering up the books she and her sister had read when they were kids and was going to buy more. If budgets are so damn tight at schools that teachers have to buy raw materials, they could pay these people more.

I don't see any excuse for that.
.

Destined for the fate of many a charter school: burnout. From the teachers. And the kids. Total burnout. And sooner rather than later.

Because you might get kids to write in cursive, do third grade math and even recite the Gettysburg Address when they're five and six, but you can't keep them from being absolutely miserable while they do it.

And miserable kids will eventually stop learning. Among other things. That's first.

Second, the teachers burn out of being underpaid and overworked, and also, get dead tired of turning out absolutely miserable kids who should be finger painting and dancing, but can't.

Check back with us when this whole thing goes sadly belly-up Mac.

 

[Mac1958]

That's what I've heard, anyway.

Just got back from a program in the kindergarten class my older daughter teaches at a Charter school. A class in which they know cursive, can read books, and can do third grade math by the time the year is over. In kindergarten.

Anyway, they recited all the states and the state capitols, both as a group and individually; they answered questions on American history and geography; they recited the first part of the Gettysburg Address. And they did one mean bunny hop a couple of times in between.

This class is about 80% black or brown.

This class isn't about your skin color or how much money your parents have. It's about maintaining standards and expectations, giving kids pride in their own achievements, and holding them accountable for their actions.

I'll bet we all know this. Some just refuse to admit it.
.

Yeah, all true. Nothing to do with money. Nothing to do with color. Everything to do with standards and expectations, accountability, and achievement.

Right, right, right, and right. If the rest of the country would grasp that, we could solve many problems.

The pay could damn well be better. Yesterday she came by the house, having just bought a freaking bookcase for her class. She was gathering up the books she and her sister had read when they were kids and was going to buy more. If budgets are so damn tight at schools that teachers have to buy raw materials, they could pay these people more.

I don't see any excuse for that.
.

Destined for the fate of many a charter school: burnout. From the teachers. And the kids. Total burnout. And sooner rather than later.

Because you might get kids to write in cursive, do third grade math and even recite the Gettysburg Address when they're five and six, but you can't keep them from being absolutely miserable while they do it.

And miserable kids will eventually stop learning. Among other things. That's first.

Second, the teachers burn out of being underpaid and overworked, and also, get dead tired of turning out absolutely miserable kids who should be finger painting and dancing, but can't.

Check back with us when this whole thing goes sadly belly-up Mac.

Okay, thanks for the good word.
.

 

[SweetSue92]

That's what I've heard, anyway.

Just got back from a program in the kindergarten class my older daughter teaches at a Charter school. A class in which they know cursive, can read books, and can do third grade math by the time the year is over. In kindergarten.

Anyway, they recited all the states and the state capitols, both as a group and individually; they answered questions on American history and geography; they recited the first part of the Gettysburg Address. And they did one mean bunny hop a couple of times in between.

This class is about 80% black or brown.

This class isn't about your skin color or how much money your parents have. It's about maintaining standards and expectations, giving kids pride in their own achievements, and holding them accountable for their actions.

I'll bet we all know this. Some just refuse to admit it.
.

Yeah, all true. Nothing to do with money. Nothing to do with color. Everything to do with standards and expectations, accountability, and achievement.

Right, right, right, and right. If the rest of the country would grasp that, we could solve many problems.

The pay could damn well be better. Yesterday she came by the house, having just bought a freaking bookcase for her class. She was gathering up the books she and her sister had read when they were kids and was going to buy more. If budgets are so damn tight at schools that teachers have to buy raw materials, they could pay these people more.

I don't see any excuse for that.
.

Destined for the fate of many a charter school: burnout. From the teachers. And the kids. Total burnout. And sooner rather than later.

Because you might get kids to write in cursive, do third grade math and even recite the Gettysburg Address when they're five and six, but you can't keep them from being absolutely miserable while they do it.

And miserable kids will eventually stop learning. Among other things. That's first.

Second, the teachers burn out of being underpaid and overworked, and also, get dead tired of turning out absolutely miserable kids who should be finger painting and dancing, but can't.

Check back with us when this whole thing goes sadly belly-up Mac.

Okay, thanks for the good word.
.

bobo has talked on this thread about the "top private school in the state". He's right. I know that school and know teachers there. It's long-established. They send most all of their kids to Harvard, Yale, Stanford and etc. They do not force kindergartners to do these things. In fact, their curriculum in kindergarten is MUCH more focused on "finger-painting and dancing" than it is writing in cursive (!) and rote memorization. If anything the academics in kinder are early reading and simple math. And arts. Lots and lots of arts. Strong focus on arts.

Charter schools try these "we can get kids to do things three years earlier than everyone else!"....and then fold. I don't know what else to tell you.

 

[SweetSue92]

That's what I've heard, anyway.

Just got back from a program in the kindergarten class my older daughter teaches at a Charter school. A class in which they know cursive, can read books, and can do third grade math by the time the year is over. In kindergarten.

Anyway, they recited all the states and the state capitols, both as a group and individually; they answered questions on American history and geography; they recited the first part of the Gettysburg Address. And they did one mean bunny hop a couple of times in between.

This class is about 80% black or brown.

This class isn't about your skin color or how much money your parents have. It's about maintaining standards and expectations, giving kids pride in their own achievements, and holding them accountable for their actions.

I'll bet we all know this. Some just refuse to admit it.
.

Yeah, all true. Nothing to do with money. Nothing to do with color. Everything to do with standards and expectations, accountability, and achievement.

Right, right, right, and right. If the rest of the country would grasp that, we could solve many problems.

The pay could damn well be better. Yesterday she came by the house, having just bought a freaking bookcase for her class. She was gathering up the books she and her sister had read when they were kids and was going to buy more. If budgets are so damn tight at schools that teachers have to buy raw materials, they could pay these people more.

I don't see any excuse for that.
.

Destined for the fate of many a charter school: burnout. From the teachers. And the kids. Total burnout. And sooner rather than later.

Because you might get kids to write in cursive, do third grade math and even recite the Gettysburg Address when they're five and six, but you can't keep them from being absolutely miserable while they do it.

And miserable kids will eventually stop learning. Among other things. That's first.

Second, the teachers burn out of being underpaid and overworked, and also, get dead tired of turning out absolutely miserable kids who should be finger painting and dancing, but can't.

Check back with us when this whole thing goes sadly belly-up Mac.

Okay, thanks for the good word.
.

Seriously....

Have your daughter start applying to some public schools around. We could use good young teachers. She would be freed up to teach with better methods and probably have a lot less pressure on her. And she would be better supported and, depending, having to spend less of her own money.

 

[dannyboys]

As a kid I lived in S. Chicago.
You think Detroit was "not fun"?
Detroit was Disneyland. S.C. schools were fucking Darfur civil war zones by comparison! They still are only more twelve year olds are being shot now by other twelve year olds over a pair of looted Air Jordans.

You are probably right but consider this. I was one of the only three whites in my all black school in the mid 70s. Blacks were not happy then.

Also the year we moved the Detroit news came out with the top ten most dangerous schools in Detroit. 1-9 were highschools. Number ten was my middle school. They put the principal in the hospital. They would do raids on lockers and find guns.

The truth lies somewhere in between.

Minorities do score lower than whites on act’s and sat’s. Even middle class two parent home black kids score lower than whites. In fact blacks score on average about the same as low income whites. Some say those tests are bias but it has to be more than that. They say the difference might be how black parents interact with their kids vs. how white parents parent their kids. Also I bet pre school factors into it.

I used to not want private school parents shouldn’t get a tax break for sending their kids to private school because it would hurt public schools but no I’m all for people who don’t use public schools getting a tax break.

I don't believe the IQ test scores are organic, i.e., that external influences have nothing to do with them. I think there is a cultural element at play as well, that effects a child from the day they're born.

I forget the exact number, but I've read that low-income children entering kindergarten have heard a FAR smaller range of words than other children. They're starting off in a hole because their vocabularies are significantly smaller. It's also less likely they've been read to or intellectually challenged. My daughter sees this all the time, five year old kids who are dropped off at her class door not knowing ANY numbers, ANY letters. That's one of MANY examples. And clearly, the culture in which a child grows is going to influence their thought patterns.

And I see the very same dynamics in the extended portions of my own mixed-race family.

I'd like to see more apples to apples comparisons.
.

Even Scalia stated that affirmative action put too high academic expectations on negro students who did not have the IQs to come close to succeeding even in community colleges.
Just telling it like it is.

Even Scalia stated that affirmative action put too high academic expectations on negro students who did not have the IQs to come close to succeeding even in community colleges.
Just telling it like it is.

Maybe he was wrong.
.

Check out the number of negroes who get into colleges even though they do have the requisite grades.
Compare that number with the number of negroes who end up leaving b/c their grades do not allow them to pass the tests.
But you keep pretending.

As if you have ever once looked at or analyzed that data. Just shut up already,ya fraud.

I doubt you have the intelligence to understand the following article.
NOTE! It was NOT written by a bunch of 'White Supremacists'. Rather it was written by numerous serious unbiased academics.
The Sad Irony of Affirmative Action

I am not going to read an article you never read and dont unserstand and then spoonfeed it back to you.

You aren't even capable of posting a single sentence without numerous grammatical errors in it.
You must have attend public school in a inner city shithole.
Let me be the first to recommend you arrange for any young family members you may have to attend inner city shithole public schools, if they are not doing so already.
What the country needs is more twenty year olds, who are functionally illiterate to compete for minimum wage jobs with millions of illegals.
The education system is failing partly because school administrators and school union leaders are getting paid exorbitant salaries they do not deserve.
I know of a school union leader who spends 95% of her time flying first class to union 'workshops' all over the country.
She has a grade twelve education.......which she received via the 'streaming' process.
She isn't sentient enough nor fit enough to tie her own shoelaces so she wears slip-ons.
She stays in first class hotels and eats $200 lunches and $400 dinners.
Her 'schtick' is to give speeches to other 'posers' like herself. Speeches about how to make the 'learning experience' better for "inner city at risk youth".
She fucking plagiarizes !00% of her speeches from obscure books written fifty years ago by european academics.
Unfortunately a large number of people working in the education field know someone just like her.

 

[sealybobo]

As a kid I lived in S. Chicago.
You think Detroit was "not fun"?
Detroit was Disneyland. S.C. schools were fucking Darfur civil war zones by comparison! They still are only more twelve year olds are being shot now by other twelve year olds over a pair of looted Air Jordans.

You are probably right but consider this. I was one of the only three whites in my all black school in the mid 70s. Blacks were not happy then.

Also the year we moved the Detroit news came out with the top ten most dangerous schools in Detroit. 1-9 were highschools. Number ten was my middle school. They put the principal in the hospital. They would do raids on lockers and find guns.

The truth lies somewhere in between.

Minorities do score lower than whites on act’s and sat’s. Even middle class two parent home black kids score lower than whites. In fact blacks score on average about the same as low income whites. Some say those tests are bias but it has to be more than that. They say the difference might be how black parents interact with their kids vs. how white parents parent their kids. Also I bet pre school factors into it.

I used to not want private school parents shouldn’t get a tax break for sending their kids to private school because it would hurt public schools but no I’m all for people who don’t use public schools getting a tax break.

I don't believe the IQ test scores are organic, i.e., that external influences have nothing to do with them. I think there is a cultural element at play as well, that effects a child from the day they're born.

I forget the exact number, but I've read that low-income children entering kindergarten have heard a FAR smaller range of words than other children. They're starting off in a hole because their vocabularies are significantly smaller. It's also less likely they've been read to or intellectually challenged. My daughter sees this all the time, five year old kids who are dropped off at her class door not knowing ANY numbers, ANY letters. That's one of MANY examples. And clearly, the culture in which a child grows is going to influence their thought patterns.

And I see the very same dynamics in the extended portions of my own mixed-race family.

I'd like to see more apples to apples comparisons.
.

Even Scalia stated that affirmative action put too high academic expectations on negro students who did not have the IQs to come close to succeeding even in community colleges.
Just telling it like it is.

Even Scalia stated that affirmative action put too high academic expectations on negro students who did not have the IQs to come close to succeeding even in community colleges.
Just telling it like it is.

Maybe he was wrong.
.

Check out the number of negroes who get into colleges even though they do have the requisite grades.
Compare that number with the number of negroes who end up leaving b/c their grades do not allow them to pass the tests.
But you keep pretending.

As if you have ever once looked at or analyzed that data. Just shut up already,ya fraud.

I doubt you have the intelligence to understand the following article.
NOTE! It was NOT written by a bunch of 'White Supremacists'. Rather it was written by numerous serious unbiased academics.
The Sad Irony of Affirmative Action

I am not going to read an article you never read and dont unserstand and then spoonfeed it back to you.

He assumes we got the same thing he got out of it. I doubt that

 

[sealybobo]

You know what I wish schools would teach? What would need to be done if we lost all technology and had to start over.

How to survive in the wilderness.

How to make fire

How to make an engine.

Make electricity.

Find oil and metals.

Build a home.

Ride a horse.

Catch a horse.

Make plumbing, ice, guns, bullets.

No one knows all of these things. It’s why community is important.

You HAD to put guns and bullets in there, didn't you? I would hope that if we had to start over, there would be some people with good minds that might try to improve things the second time around. No guns and bullets would be a start.

Not sure why you’d prefer to be stabbed or bludgeoned to death.

... I might poke my fingers in your eyes and kill you, too. ...

You could try, but you would fail. However, if you shot me from 15 feet away, I like your chances.

We're getting farther and farther from my point.

That’s what unkotare does.