Michael J Fox - Human Shield

[manu1959]

Liberalism is an ideology of death, especially for our western culture. Liberalism is nihilistic in nature. Take a look at a partial list which shows various forms of death that liberals support:

abortion
partial birth abortion
embryonic stem cell research
infanticide
euthanasia
high rates of violence which includes murder
environmental extremism such as bans on DDT
death threats to our President
death of marriage
death tax

but no death penalty ... it is in human

 

[onedomino]

What's REALLY ironic and downright disgusting is how liberal Democrats will fill the minds of sick people with lies and hopes for a cure when there is scientifically no real hope of a cure with embryonic stem cells so that the sick person will go out and campaign for their Ideology of Death.

So sayeth the preeminent molecular geneticist ScreamingEagle. What is the objective, non-religious, non-political, scientific source of the above assertion that has no link? For your information, scientists in the real world insist there are many advantages to embryonic stem cell research. But rational discussion of this issue does not seem possible with individuals who religiously insist, as an article of faith, that every fertilized egg is a human being complete with immortal soul. Contrary to Eagle’s assertion, study and research with embryonic stem cells does offer very significant advantages over limiting scientific investigation to adult stem cells. From researchers at the University of Wisconsin:

Why are embryonic stem cells important?

Embryonic stem cells are of great interest to medicine and science because of their ability to develop into virtually any other cell made by the human body. In theory, if stem cells can be grown and their development directed in culture, it would be possible to grow cells of medical importance such as bone marrow, neural tissue or muscle.

The first potential applications of human embryonic stem cell technology may be in the area of drug discovery. The ability to grow pure populations of specific cell types offers a proving ground for chemical compounds that may have medical importance. Treating specific cell types with chemicals and measuring their response offers a short-cut to sort out chemicals that can be used to treat the diseases that involve those specific cell types. Stem cell technology, therefore, would permit the rapid screening of hundreds of thousands of chemicals that must now be tested through much more time-consuming processes.

The study of human development also benefits from embryonic stem cell research. The earliest stages of human development have been difficult or impossible to study. Human embryonic stem cells offer insights into developmental events that cannot be studied directly in humans in utero or fully understood through the use of animal models. Understanding the events that occur at the first stages of development has potential clinical significance for preventing or treating birth defects, infertility and pregnancy loss. A thorough knowledge of normal development could ultimately allow the prevention or treatment of abnormal human development. For instance, screening drugs by testing them on cultured human embryonic stem cells could help reduce the risk of drug-related birth defects.

How might embryonic stem cells be used to treat disease?

The ability to grow human tissue of all kinds opens the door to treating a range of cell-based diseases and to growing medically important tissues that can be used for transplantation purposes. For example, diseases like juvenile onset diabetes mellitus and Parkinson's disease occur because of defects in one of just a few cells types. Replacing faulty cells with healthy ones offers hope of lifelong treatment. Similarly, failing hearts and other organs, in theory, could be shored up by injecting healthy cells to replace damaged or diseased cells.

Why not derive stem cells from adults?

There are several approaches now in human clinical trials that utilize mature stem cells (such as blood-forming cells, neuron-forming cells and cartilage-forming cells). However, because adult cells are already specialized, their potential to regenerate damaged tissue is very limited: skin cells will only become skin and cartilage cells will only become cartilage. Adults do not have stem cells in many vital organs, so when those tissues are damaged, scar tissue develops. Only embryonic stem cells, which have the capacity to become any kind of human tissue, have the potential to repair vital organs.

Another limitation of adult stem cells is their inability to proliferate in culture. Unlike embryonic stem cells, which have a capacity to reproduce indefinitely in the laboratory, adult stem cells are difficult to grow in the lab and their potential to reproduce diminishes with age. Therefore, obtaining clinically significant amounts of adult stem cells may prove to be difficult.

Studies of adult stem cells are important and will provide valuable insights into the use of stem cell in transplantation procedures. However, only through exploration of all types of stem cell research will scientists find the most efficient and effective ways to treat diseases.

What are the benefits of studying embryonic stem cells?

Pluripotent stem cells represent hope for millions of Americans. They have the potential to treat or cure a myriad of diseases, including Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, diabetes, heart disease, stroke, spinal cord injuries and burns.

This extraordinary research is still in its infancy and practical application will only be possible with additional study. Scientists need to understand what leads cells to specialization in order to direct cells to become particular types of tissue. For example, islet cells control insulin production in the pancreas, which is disrupted in people with diabetes. If an individual with diabetes is to be cured, the stem cells used for treatment must develop into new insulin-producing islet cells, not heart tissue or other cells. Research is required to determine how to control the differentiation of stem cells so they will be therapeutically effective. Research is also necessary to study the potential of immune rejection of the cells, and how to overcome that problem

http://www.news.wisc.edu/packages/stemcells/facts.html#3
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As I mentioned above, objective discussion of this issue is simply not possible with people who religiously believe that each fertilized egg is a human being complete with soul. So the only alternative is to keep defeating such individuals at the polls, as happened with Prop 71 in California in 2004. There are politicians who veto Congressional funding authorizations for embryonic stem cell research and this mollifies extremists. Fortunately in a democracy, as Californians have demonstrated, no amount of vetoes will prevent the will of the people from being expressed. But an irrational position regarding the advancement of medical research can help defeat Republicans at the polls. And that is pathetic because a Democrat House of Representatives with Nancy Pelosi running the show will be a waking nightmare for Conservatives. Like that radio ratings nitwit Rush Limbaugh, go ahead and bash Michael Fox one more time. Call a man with a horrible disease unethical one more time. Go ahead and convince the swing voters that Republicans are mean-spirited. No one ever claimed that the Democrat Party has a monopoly on self-destruction.

 

[Hobbit]

So sayeth the preeminent molecular geneticist ScreamingEagle. What is the objective, non-religious, non-political, scientific source of the above assertion that has no link? For your information, scientists in the real world insist there are many advantages to embryonic stem cell research. But rational discussion of this issue does not seem possible with individuals who religiously insist, as an article of faith, that every fertilized egg is a human being complete with immortal soul. Contrary to Eagle’s assertion, study and research with embryonic stem cells does offer very significant advantages over limiting scientific investigation to adult stem cells. From researchers at the University of Wisconsin:

As I mentioned above, objective discussion of this issue is simply not possible with people who religiously believe that each fertilized egg is a human being complete with soul. So the only alternative is to keep defeating such individuals at the polls, as happened with Prop 71 in California in 2004. There are politicians who veto Congressional funding authorizations for embryonic stem cell research and this mollifies extremists. Fortunately in a democracy, as Californians have demonstrated, no amount of vetoes will prevent the will of the people from being expressed. But an irrational position regarding the advancement of medical research can help defeat Republicans at the polls. And that is pathetic because a Democrat House of Representatives with Nancy Pelosi running the show will be a waking nightmare for Conservatives. Like that radio ratings nitwit Rush Limbaugh, go ahead and bash Michael Fox one more time. Call a man with a horrible disease unethical one more time. Go ahead and convince the swing voters that Republicans are mean-spirited. No one ever claimed that the Democrat Party has a monopoly on self-destruction.

Uh, didn't you ever hear the part where a stem cell researcher, and I think he was from the very school that wrote this article, was quoted as saying that the researchers needed to make up a 'fairy tale' to sell this stuff to the public? Face it. If embryonic stem cells had any real value, private investors would fund it. The only people who need government handouts to do research are military R&D guys and people whose stuff isn't worth enough to invest in, so unless embryonic stem cells can be turned into a bomb, keep your bloody hands off my tax dollars and give your own money to the research groups.

 

[manu1959]

......objective discussion of this issue is simply not possible with people who religiously believe that each fertilized egg is a human being complete with soul.

disagree....if each of us is here as a part of god's plan and ....god's plan for me is ..... whatever ..... is it not god's plan for these embryos to save lives? .... when we have had people fight and die in wars to save others it is god's will .... why not embryos to save lives?

 

[Hobbit]

Actually, I was wrong about the school. The guy's name was Ronald D.G. McKay of the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke. He openly admitted that the scientists peddling this embryonic snake oil had flat-out lied to try to sell this stuff. He went on to say, "Maybe that's unfair, but they need a story line that's relatively simple to understand." Yep, lots of potential...to waste money.

http://www.calright2life.org/stemcell.htm

 

[Hobbit]

disagree....if each of us is here as a part of god's plan and ....god's plan for me is ..... whatever ..... is it not god's plan for these embryos to save lives? .... when we have had people fight and die in wars to save others it is god's will .... why not embryos to save lives?

It's not our place to decide. When you start deciding which people get to live as part of God's plan and who gets to die for some benevolent cause which, so far, has caused nothing but cancer, then you're playing God. I doubt you would condone me stabbing you in the face if all I had to say is that if I stabbed enough people, maybe one day I could come up with a cure for hairy nipples, and your entire purpose in life is to help me cure hairy nipples.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

It's not our place to decide. When you start deciding which people get to live as part of God's plan and who gets to die for some benevolent cause which, so far, has caused nothing but cancer, then you're playing God. I doubt you would condone me stabbing you in the face if all I had to say is that if I stabbed enough people, maybe one day I could come up with a cure for hairy nipples, and your entire purpose in life is to help me cure hairy nipples.

Exactly. Liberals ultimately want the STATE to become God. The STATE will get to decide who lives and who dies. Communism anyone?

 

[manu1959]

It's not our place to decide. When you start deciding which people get to live as part of God's plan and who gets to die for some benevolent cause which, so far, has caused nothing but cancer, then you're playing God. I doubt you would condone me stabbing you in the face if all I had to say is that if I stabbed enough people, maybe one day I could come up with a cure for hairy nipples, and your entire purpose in life is to help me cure hairy nipples.

your anology is idiotic .... but you knew that

i had 23 fertilezed embryos ..... i had two choices .... kill them all .... or ... let them help others ..... and let those embryos live on in those they help

when you are faced with the choice i was, i will give your opinion consideration ... until then ...

 

[manu1959]

Exactly. Liberals ultimately want the STATE to become God. The STATE will get to decide who lives and who dies. Communism anyone?

there is a symmetrical argument to your position which is just as valid

 

[ScreamingEagle]

there is a symmetrical argument to your position which is just as valid

which is?

 

[manu1959]

which is?

think it through

 

[ScreamingEagle]

think it through

nah, too tired. outline the basics.

 

[onedomino]

Uh, didn't you ever hear the part where a stem cell researcher, and I think he was from the very school that wrote this article, was quoted as saying that the researchers needed to make up a 'fairy tale' to sell this stuff to the public? Face it. If embryonic stem cells had any real value, private investors would fund it. The only people who need government handouts to do research are military R&D guys and people whose stuff isn't worth enough to invest in, so unless embryonic stem cells can be turned into a bomb, keep your bloody hands off my tax dollars and give your own money to the research groups.

My "bloody" hands, huh? Thanks for the insult and being so thoughtful in your brilliant response. "didn't you ever hear the part where a stem cell researcher, and I think he was from the very school that wrote this article was quoted as saying that the researchers needed to make up a 'fairy tale' to sell this stuff to the public?." Let's see the link, forum, and the documented objective basis (not unsubstantiated opinion) of the statement. You know very well that long-term reasearch with no known timeframe or guarantee for success is never substantially funded by private organizations; especially for research the requires billions of dollars. I pay taxes in California and despite people like you some of those dollars will be used to fund embryonic stem cell research. Dispite your anti-research hysteria, if in the future any effective disease treatments are discovered we will try to help you.

 

[Hobbit]

Actually, I was wrong about the school. The guy's name was Ronald D.G. McKay of the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke. He openly admitted that the scientists peddling this embryonic snake oil had flat-out lied to try to sell this stuff. He went on to say, "Maybe that's unfair, but they need a story line that's relatively simple to understand." Yep, lots of potential...to waste money.

http://www.calright2life.org/stemcell.htm

Did you miss this? Jackass.

 

[manu1959]

nah, too tired. outline the basics.

me too ....

 

[onedomino]

Did you miss this? Jackass.

Thanks for the mindless name calling. Only the thoughtful sink to pajoritives. What's the view like from down there?

 

[Hobbit]

Thanks for the mindless name calling. Only the thoughtful sink to pajoritives. What's the view like from down there?

From this angle, you look like an a**hole...and you walked right into that one.

But back to the topic at hand, if stem cell research is so awesome, then why are 1) scientists who support it admittedly lieing about its potential and 2) private companies not dropping a dime to research it. If embryonic stem cells had half the potential that you seem to think they have, they wouldn't need government money. In fact, they'd be swimming in so much money that they could buy their own country where George Bush can't make it illegal to do said research.

 

[onedomino]

From this angle, you look like an a**hole...and you walked right into that one.

But back to the topic at hand, if stem cell research is so awesome, then why are 1) scientists who support it admittedly lieing about its potential and 2) private companies not dropping a dime to research it. If embryonic stem cells had half the potential that you seem to think they have, they wouldn't need government money. In fact, they'd be swimming in so much money that they could buy their own country where George Bush can't make it illegal to do said research.

What a delightful guy. First class. Kinda like the photo next to your name.

 

[Hobbit]

What a delightful guy. First class. Kinda like the photo next to your name.

I take that to mean that you don't have a response to my query? Yeah, I'll admit to starting it, but at least I included some, uh, POINT to each of my posts, rather than just acting high and mighty and holier than thou. Care to throw out an actual argument or are you just running on smug?

 

[CharlestonChad]

Do you have to mock the other posters names as such? Im not saying you are the only one doing it, come on is it that difficult to have some civility.

BTW Rush didnt mock him at all. You obviously didnt listen to what he actually said. He has been very respectful to Fox. Which is far more than I can say you have.

But then you cant really deal with what Rush says so you have to go to the personal attack. and its the stinking personal attacks that turn people off from politics.

1. I'm only joking with RSR. I promise he/she was not offended.

2. I've already delt with what Rush has to say. Then I thought I'd throw in a little jab at his maturity at the end, just for kicks (and to show that I'm also immature).