McGreevy Gay.....

[nakedemperor]

Of course, that's why I don't engage in debate with people who resort to name calling. Just ignore them. They obviously aren't writing to try and persuade or understand another person's point of view.

However, not all religious people or people who have faith are like that. You are lumping all of them in with a person who is rude, obnoxious and unpersuasive. How about you just confine your frustration and comments to him and only him rather than the other 99.99% of people who may have faith but who didn't curse at you and offered completely valid and productive arguments.

Truly, you seem to be just as bigoted against those with faith (who didn't curse you).

Do I seem that way? How do you mean? Because I'm definitely not, so if I gave that impression, I'm really sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone. What I meant to say (and I'm pretty sure I did say it this way) is that its frustrating arguing about homosexuality with a Christian, and its frustrating and not worth tolerance when that Christian resorts to name calling and cursing.

Again, I don't want people to think I'm anti-religion just because I'm critically aware of the fundamental differences between the Christian beliefs and mine. I think religion's great, I just don't have it.

 

[nakedemperor]

All the regs on the board know how we all feel about queers, from the board "OWNER" on down.
I wouldn't edit out one word I said about fags. In my opinion, I went easy in that post. Trying to match the repulsiveness of homosexuality in words can only be done with profanity, since it's such a disgusting perversion.

And just for the record, "I" don't "HATE" queers. That's "GOD'S" job, not mine. The Lord said for a man to lay with a man such as a woman, they will surely be put to death, and their blood will be upon them. So all the fags will get their's in the end... er, of time that is. The Lord's made that abundantly clear.

But if you want to be the fag that "stomps my ass" little mister lollipop, just let me know. I'll be there.

You obviously hate homosexuals, you use hateful and insensitive terminology to address and identify them. If you didn't hate them you'd call them homosexuals. That being said, I'm not going to respond to any more of your posts on the subject palerider, Moi gave good advice. Which I'm taking.

 

[dmp]

Welcome to the board, Naked...

 

[007]

Do I seem that way? How do you mean? Because I'm definitely not, so if I gave that impression, I'm really sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone.

Ooooooh... so now you start the back peddling aye? Well I don't buy it boy.

I hope you spit your hatred in the face of a gay man who will give you the beating you deserve if you persist in being so perverse in your views.

You just go around telling people they need their ass kicked "politely", so we all will ignore it, is that right?

Piss off.

 

[Moi]

Now I will step in here...let's try to keep it civil, without all the name calling and threats.

I think everyone has made their position clear and this thread diversion has run its course.

 

[007]

See above- edited by moderator.

 

[DKSuddeth]

And just for the record, "I" don't "HATE" queers. That's "GOD'S" job, not mine. The Lord said for a man to lay with a man such as a woman, they will surely be put to death, and their blood will be upon them. So all the fags will get their's in the end... er, of time that is. The Lord's made that abundantly clear.

I know you're not implying that God, a god of love and mercy, HATES people because they either choose to be homosexual or are incapable of being heterosexual, are you?

 

[007]

Now I will step in here...let's try to keep it civil, without all the name calling and threats.

I think everyone has made their position clear and this thread diversion has run its course.

I'm done. Queers and their agenda just get me too pissed off.

 

[007]

I know you're not implying that God, a god of love and mercy, HATES people because they either choose to be homosexual or are incapable of being heterosexual, are you?

Yeah that's right DK... clean up the board so no one will actually SEE what homosexuality is REALLY all about. It's too SICK to handle isn't it.

But to answer your question... absolutely. What's wrong with knowing right from wrong? And what's wrong with an answer that leaves no further questions?

 

[Moi]

Let's get this straight...DK didn't do anything I did. And, apparently I didn't do it very well because I didn't intend to delete the entire post.

 

[Bonnie]

Do I seem that way? How do you mean? Because I'm definitely not, so if I gave that impression, I'm really sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone. What I meant to say (and I'm pretty sure I did say it this way) is that its frustrating arguing about homosexuality with a Christian, and its frustrating and not worth tolerance when that Christian resorts to name calling and cursing.

Again, I don't want people to think I'm anti-religion just because I'm critically aware of the fundamental differences between the Christian beliefs and mine. I think religion's great, I just don't have it.

Naked, as Catholic I would be happy to calmly discuss homosexuality.

God doesn't hate anyone, nor do I. I do make the judgement based on my faith that Homosexuality is wrong in God's eyes, but that he wants everyone to get to heaven. That being said WE ALL have our crosses to carry in one form or another. Just so you know most Christians love the sinner but hate the sin, I know that sounds cliche but its the truth, thats the way we decide how to do the right thing in our own lives, by the church's teachings.
What God wants us all to do is when we make a mistake to ask for forgiveness and do the best we can each day. It is a struggle for all of us.

What makes Homosexuals look bad is the tactics often used to make the rest of us accept them with open arms, like entering St Patrick's Cathedral, taking the host (the most blessed thing to a christian) and stepping on it to make a point. Or forcing their lifestyle down our throats, by teaching children in school (often without the consent of parents) that homosexuality is normal and acceptable. If I were a parent I would be furious at that.

I have no problem in any way shape or form with people practicing whatever form of sexuality they wish in the privacy of their bedrooms, just don't shove it in my life. And I think thats a perfectly reasonable outlook.

 

[007]

Let's get this straight...DK didn't do anything I did. And, apparently I didn't do it very well because I didn't intend to delete the entire post.

My opologies then to DK.

I need a break.

 

[007]

http://www.bbcracine.org/Articles/bible_speaks_against_homosexuali.htm

The Bible Speaks Against Homosexuality

1. The Law of God Speaks Against it:

Leviticus 18:22, "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

Leviticus 20:13, "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

Deuteronomy 23:17, "There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel."

2. Biblical History Speaks Against it:

Genesis 19:4-12, "But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof. And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door. And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door. And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place:" Genesis 19:23-28, "The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar. Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven; And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground. But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt. And Abraham gat up early in the morning to the place where he stood before the LORD: And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace."

 

[dmp]

well - geesh people.

I love homosexuals. I've served with homosexuals in the Military. What I don't love is people making 'excuses' for their behaviour with terms like "born this way" and junk and stuff. I don't love homosexuals asking for specials rights and privledges and recognitions for their choice of sexual partners.

 

[nakedemperor]

Naked, as Catholic I would be happy to calmly discuss homosexuality.

God doesn't hate anyone, nor do I. I do make the judgement based on my faith that Homosexuality is wrong in God's eyes, but that he wants everyone to get to heaven. That being said WE ALL have our crosses to carry in one form or another. Just so you know most Christians love the sinner but hate the sin, I know that sounds cliche but its the truth, thats the way we decide how to do the right thing in our own lives, by the church's teachings.
What God wants us all to do is when we make a mistake to ask for forgiveness and do the best we can each day. It is a struggle for all of us.

What makes Homosexuals look bad is the tactics often used to make the rest of us accept them with open arms, like entering St Patrick's Cathedral, taking the host (the most blessed thing to a christian) and stepping on it to make a point. Or forcing their lifestyle down our throats, by teaching children in school (often without the consent of parents) that homosexuality is normal and acceptable. If I were a parent I would be furious at that.

I have no problem in any way shape or form with people practicing whatever form of sexuality they wish in the privacy of their bedrooms, just don't shove it in my life. And I think thats a perfectly reasonable outlook.

Bonnie, what a wonderfully progressive outlook. I would never disgrace the sacrament, and I don't think it's right for anyone to have done that. Also, when gays get too militant and angry about not being accepted, we can go too far, and indeed 'shove ourselves in your face'. It's unacceptable, and insensitive to your religion.

I've gone to gay rallies and demonstrations, not to shove my sexuality in anyone's face, but in order to secure acceptance and equal rights in the eyes of a government consitutionally seperate from religion. I guess the only place I'd disagree is that we need to educate people that even if they don't approve of homosexuality (which is fully understandbale and acceptable) they should put their best foot forward in accepting it. You mentioned not teaching it in schools, and I think sexual politics have no place in schools, so I guess I agree. But I think it also shouldn't be taught that homosexuality is UNacceptable. Or else we get more people like the ones who call me a fag on this site.

Pale Rider-- I wasn't "back-peddling". I actually DO think religion is a wonderful thing, and am fully in earnest when I say that I think my life would be better if I had faith. Sadly I find myself too much of a pragmatist to have it. So, despite your belief that you can tell me what I do and do not accept, I ACCEPT religion and believe it to have farfar more good qualities than bad.

 

[dmp]

:I've gone to gay rallies and demonstrations, not to shove my sexuality in anyone's face, but in order to secure acceptance and equal rights in the eyes of a government consitutionally seperate from religion.

Am I putting words in your mouth if I believe you feel there are no reasons to condemn homosexuality except for religious reason?

You mentioned not teaching it in schools, and I think sexual politics have no place in schools, so I guess I agree. But I think it also shouldn't be taught that homosexuality is UNacceptable. Or else we get more people like the ones who call me a fag on this site.

Again, your answer to my 1st question will dictate - but it's as if you aren't privy to every other-than-religious reason to not practice homosexuality. Why do you think God wants people to NOT engage in homosexual acts? Because it messes with our minds and bodies. It's inherrently un-healthy - the reasons go along the lines of other Sins God explains to us. Too many people assume God wants to keep us from certian thoughts/activities because he's being mean - 9 times out of 10, it's to save us from ourselves. It's God's wish that we are amazingly happy and healthy; living trouble-free, long lives. Homosexuality, gluttony, among other practices are destructive in nature, and prevent us from such a life as God would have for us.

 

[Bonnie]

Am I putting words in your mouth if I believe you feel there are no reasons to condemn homosexuality except for religious reason?



Again, your answer to my 1st question will dictate - but it's as if you aren't privy to every other-than-religious reason to not practice homosexuality. Why do you think God wants people to NOT engage in homosexual acts? Because it messes with our minds and bodies. It's inherrently un-healthy - the reasons go along the lines of other Sins God explains to us. Too many people assume God wants to keep us from certian thoughts/activities because he's being mean - 9 times out of 10, it's to save us from ourselves. It's God's wish that we are amazingly happy and healthy; living trouble-free, long lives. Homosexuality, gluttony, among other practices are destructive in nature, and prevent us from such a life as God would have for us.

Probably the best way to look a this is to point out that when things are chaotic in ones life it always leads to more chaos.......When we live or try to live a simple ordred life (and I don't mean a boring life) an ordered life people are happier.

I know this statement is going to seem way out there.....But here goes .......there is a theory among some that every vice we go after in excess, sex, drugs, material things, excessive food, vanity etc are all the way we unconsciously are trying to reach for God and have heaven on earth, but just don't realise it because we are all mired down in the muck. When you remove yourself from that, is when you see things clearer and start to have peace of mind. And Im not exactly a prude... so for me to say that, there must be some truth to it.

 

[OCA]

OCA: more careful reading might be in order. I said:
"Whether by nature or nurture, whether genetically or by external environmental influences, I am what I am."

And to avatar: Why should I retain hope that I can change my natural predisposition to homosexuality? Should you retain hope that you can change your heterosexuality?

Nice avoidance of the question, guess you couldn't answer it. You always have hope to change your CHOSEN lifestyle manner. Again can you prove with facts and evidence beyond a shadow of a doubt that just you were born queer.

 

[Hobbit]

Bonnie, what a wonderfully progressive outlook. I would never disgrace the sacrament, and I don't think it's right for anyone to have done that. Also, when gays get too militant and angry about not being accepted, we can go too far, and indeed 'shove ourselves in your face'. It's unacceptable, and insensitive to your religion.

I've gone to gay rallies and demonstrations, not to shove my sexuality in anyone's face, but in order to secure acceptance and equal rights in the eyes of a government consitutionally seperate from religion. I guess the only place I'd disagree is that we need to educate people that even if they don't approve of homosexuality (which is fully understandbale and acceptable) they should put their best foot forward in accepting it. You mentioned not teaching it in schools, and I think sexual politics have no place in schools, so I guess I agree. But I think it also shouldn't be taught that homosexuality is UNacceptable. Or else we get more people like the ones who call me a fag on this site.

Pale Rider-- I wasn't "back-peddling". I actually DO think religion is a wonderful thing, and am fully in earnest when I say that I think my life would be better if I had faith. Sadly I find myself too much of a pragmatist to have it. So, despite your belief that you can tell me what I do and do not accept, I ACCEPT religion and believe it to have farfar more good qualities than bad.

Ah, civility, how sweet the sound. I'm glad you're not as aggressive as most other groups I've seen, but that doesn't change the fact that I think what you're doing is wrong. It is said in the Bible that no temptation will come your way which you cannot overcome. Some will, of course, be harder than others, but the Bible also says that you will never have a temptation that nobody else has ever faced. In the face of those verses, I refuse to accept that anyone is incapable of refraining from homosexuality (or extramarital sex, for good measure). That being said, I also refuse to accept it as an "alternative lifestyle" much as I would never call pathological liars, theives, alcoholics, etc. an alternative lifestyle, just people who have a little bit harder time dealing with things. You seem a very civil person, and I hope we're not always at odds, but if we're ever on the same side of this issue, I guarantee you it will not be your current side. Unlike the Epicopals, who have ordained a gay bishop, I believe the ENTIRE Bible, and no amount of 'sensitivity training,' activism, or forced PC can ever change that.

 

[Bonnie]

Bonnie, what a wonderfully progressive outlook. I would never disgrace the sacrament, and I don't think it's right for anyone to have done that. Also, when gays get too militant and angry about not being accepted, we can go too far, and indeed 'shove ourselves in your face'. It's unacceptable, and insensitive to your religion.

I've gone to gay rallies and demonstrations, not to shove my sexuality in anyone's face, but in order to secure acceptance and equal rights in the eyes of a government consitutionally seperate from religion. I guess the only place I'd disagree is that we need to educate people that even if they don't approve of homosexuality (which is fully understandbale and acceptable) they should put their best foot forward in accepting it. You mentioned not teaching it in schools, and I think sexual politics have no place in schools, so I guess I agree. But I think it also shouldn't be taught that homosexuality is UNacceptable. Or else we get more people like the ones who call me a fag on this site.

Pale Rider-- I wasn't "back-peddling". I actually DO think religion is a wonderful thing, and am fully in earnest when I say that I think my life would be better if I had faith. Sadly I find myself too much of a pragmatist to have it. So, despite your belief that you can tell me what I do and do not accept, I ACCEPT religion and believe it to have farfar more good qualities than bad.

Im just not understanding what you mean by accept it. For instance in schools..I agree 100% that we should not teach hate for anyone, and I have never seen or heard of school ciriculums that would have that perspective, maybe there are some out there I don't know, but yes that would be horribly wrong, yet we do have certain schools teaching children that the homosexual lifestyle is a viable option, that just can not be acceptable either. Morality should be left to parents and only parents. Schools cross the line too much in this area.

Religion and faith are inherent in all of us, but we need to persue it for ourselves. The great thing about faith is that even a pragmatist can have it if they choose to open the mind a bit more.