"Marry a Muslim or you die!"

[California Girl]

Its just coincidence that honor killings occur more often in Muslim countries. Just a coincidence. I'll check the stats later, but I'm almost certain that this "cultural phenomenon" will include a disproportionate number of a certain religion. But those inconvenient "facts" of course will be dismissed.

And even if this dad was a Hindu, the "fact" is that battered victims are often too afraid to testify. And that is the danger of Sharia. DV is often handled in family courts. That's what they want for the U.S.

Not in the UK, it isn't. Domestic Violence is a criminal offense in the UK. It is handled by the criminal courts.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

That is your opinion.

Do Not Marry Idol Worshipers
[2:221] Do not marry idolatresses unless they believe; a believing woman is better than an idolatress, even if you like her. Nor shall you give your daughters in marriage to idolatrous men, unless they believe. A believing man is better than an idolater, even if you like him. These invite to Hell, while GOD invites to Paradise and forgiveness, as He wills. He clarifies His revelations for the people, that they may take heed.

It is informed opinion. Informed by FACTS. There is an 'honor killing' issue in the UK. This issue has been researched by a variety of agencies. Each has concluded that it is cultural - ie it happens within certain cultures - not faith based. That evidences shows links between 'honor killings' and certain countries. Not certain faiths. Therefore, the evidence suggests that it the religion is not the determining factor, it is the country.

Beating women and tthose who do wrong to make them submissive is an Islamic tradition And is sanctified in Islamic scripture .
Commanding the Right & Forbidding the Wrong

That agencies of bureaucrats were unable to find any link with Islam comes as no surprise .

SOUTH ASIA BANGLADESH

Religions:

Muslim 89.5%, Hindu 9.6%, other 0.9% (2004)

They are currently unable to find any connection between Islamic fundamentalism and jihad in D.C..
Ensuring Muslims are not offended is the highest priority for many.

That some would suggest that "None of the world's major religions condone honour-related crimes."
Flies in the face of Islamic tradition
CRCC: Center For Muslim-Jewish Engagement: Resources: Religious Texts

SARIYYAH OF `UMAYR IBN `ADI
Then (occurred) the sariyyah of `Umayr ibn `Adi Ibn Kharashah al-Khatmi against `Asma' Bint Marwan, of Banu Umayyah Ibn Zayd, when five nights had remained from the month of Ramadan, in the beginning of the nineteenth month from the hijrah of the apostle of Allah.

`Asma' was the wife of Yazid Ibn Zayd Ibn Hisn al-Khatmi. She used to revile Islam, offend the prophet and instigate the (people) against him. She composed verses. Umayr Ibn Adi came to her in the night and entered her house. Her children were sleeping around her.

There was one whom she was suckling. He searched her with his hand because he was blind, and separated the child from her. He thrust his sword in her chest till it pierced up to her back. Then he offered the morning prayers with the prophet at al-Medina.

The apostle of Allah said to him: "Have you slain the daughter of Marwan?" He said: "Yes. Is there something more for me to do?" He [Muhammad] said: "No. Two goats will butt together about her. This was the word that was first heard from the apostle of Allah. The apostle of Allah called him `Umayr, "basir" (the seeing).

 

[geauxtohell]

The brother of a Harry Potter star was jailed for six months today for a "prolonged and nasty" attack in which she was beaten and branded a "slag" for dating a non-Muslim.

Afshan Azad, 21, who played Padma Patil, a classmate of the teenage wizard, in the blockbuster Hollywood films based on JK Rowling's children's books, feared for her life during the three-hour ordeal, Manchester Crown Court heard.

She was punched, dragged around by her hair and strangled by her brother Ashraf Azad, 28, who threatened to kill her after he caught her talking on the phone to her Hindu boyfriend on May 21 last year, the court was told.

During the row at the family home in Longsight, Manchester, which also involved her mother and father, she was branded a "slag" and a "prostitute" and told: "Marry a Muslim or you die!"

"She realised she would have to leave and felt she could not live any longer in that environment," Mr Vardon said.

"She was genuinely fearing for her life."

The assault left Miss Azad with swelling, grazes and bruises around her eyes, face, left ear, forehead and forearms.

Both her father and brother were originally charged with making threats to kill her and her brother was also charged with assault.

Instead of both going on trial, at a hearing last month the prosecution agreed to accept a plea of guilty to assault from her brother, and both men were formally found not guilty of making threats to kill.

Her father accepted being bound over to keep the peace for 12 months in the sum of £500.

During the last hearing, lawyers said attempts to get the victim to come to court to give evidence against her father and brother had been unsuccessful and Miss Azad would not attend voluntarily.

Brother jailed for attacking Harry Potter star - Europe, World News - Independent.ie

Battered victim pleads for leniency because she is afraid for her life. This is what is known as "Sharia Law".

And it sounds like his ass is in prison now at the behest of British law. What is your point?

 

[Ravi]

CG is absolutely right. The sentencing had nothing whatsoever to do with Sharia law. As for the soft sentence, that is a reflection of sentencing in general. Our judiciary is overloaded with bleeding heart liberalists who are incapable of making the punishment fit the crime!

Incidentally, honour crimes are not limited to muslims. They are just as prevalent among Hindus. They have nothing to do with religion and everytrhing to do with culture.

Or it is possible these idiots had no prior trouble with the law...it isn't just the British that look at priors.

 

[Ravi]

$800 barely qualifies as chicken feed in an assault case. Beating the woman for 3 hours shows deliberate sadism.

I agree. But that was just the father. The brother - who actually carried out the assault, got a prison sentence - not long enough in my opinion, but that's the Brit sentencing system... it's appallingly light.... As Bootneck pointed out... that's the do gooder liberal attitude.

My sister in law was beaten and left for dead...the cops caught her husband in the act. He got two years...in a red state. Spare me your bullshit.

 

[California Girl]

$800 barely qualifies as chicken feed in an assault case. Beating the woman for 3 hours shows deliberate sadism.

I agree. But that was just the father. The brother - who actually carried out the assault, got a prison sentence - not long enough in my opinion, but that's the Brit sentencing system... it's appallingly light.... As Bootneck pointed out... that's the do gooder liberal attitude.

My sister in law was beaten and left for dead...the cops caught her husband in the act. He got two years...in a red state. Spare me your bullshit.

He could have killed her and been out in the same time in the UK. It's not bullshit. And, Bootneck agreed.... and he's a Brit. Their sentencing is shit. Same across the EU. And it is their liberal attitude.... big on 'rehabilitation'.

 

[Ravi]

I agree. But that was just the father. The brother - who actually carried out the assault, got a prison sentence - not long enough in my opinion, but that's the Brit sentencing system... it's appallingly light.... As Bootneck pointed out... that's the do gooder liberal attitude.

My sister in law was beaten and left for dead...the cops caught her husband in the act. He got two years...in a red state. Spare me your bullshit.

He could have killed her and been out in the same time in the UK. It's not bullshit. And, Bootneck agreed.... and he's a Brit. Their sentencing is shit. Same across the EU. And it is their liberal attitude.... big on 'rehabilitation'.

No..it's the good old boy network that applauds wife beating.

 

[chanel]

I'm sorry about your sister in law ravi. I hope she is doing ok now. Here is the U.S., you may be right about the "good ole boy" network. But elsewhere in the world, this practice is accepted amongst women as well. This actress cannot even turn to her own mother.

In 2005 Der Spiegel reported: "In the past four months, six Muslim women living in Berlin have been brutally murdered by family members". Precise statistics on how many women die every year in such honor killings are hard to come by, as many crimes are never reported, said Myria Boehmecke of the Tuebingen-based women's group Terre des Femmes. The group tries to protect Muslim girls and women from oppressive families.

Every year in the United Kingdom (UK), officials estimate that at least a dozen women are victims of honor killings, almost exclusively within Asian and Middle Eastern families.[22] Often cases cannot be resolved due to the unwillingness of family, relatives and communities to testify. While precise figures do not exist for the perpetrators' cultural backgrounds, Diana Nammi of the UK's Iranian and Kurdish Women's Rights Organisation is reported to have said: "about two-thirds are Muslim. Yet they can also be Hindu and Sikh"[2

Kremlin-appointed Chechen President Ramzan Kadyrov said that honor killings were perpetrated on those who deserved to die. He said that those who are killed have "loose morals" and are rightfully shot by relatives in honor killings. He did not vilify women alone but added that "If a woman runs around and if a man runs around with her, both of them are killed."[81][82]

In 2007, a famous Norwegian judge stated that he wanted the punishment for murder of 17 years in prison to be reduced to 15 years in the case of honor killings practiced in Norway. He stated that the Norwegian public did not understand other cultures who practiced honor killings, or understand their thinking, and that Norweigan culture “is self-righteous”.[83]

An 2009 article in Middle East Quarterly argues that the United States is far behind Europe in acknowledging that honor killings are a special form of domestic violence, requiring special training and special programs to protect the young women and girls most likely to be the victim of such practices. The article suggests that the fear of being labeled "culturally insensitive" often prevents government officials in the United States and the media from identifying and accurately reporting these incidents as "honor killings" when they occur. Failing to accurately describe the problem makes it more difficult to develop public policies to address it.[39]

Honor killing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That's my fear. "Failing to accurately describe the problem makes it more difficult" and anyone who speaks out is labeled a bigot. We need to learn from Europe's mistakes before it's too late.

 

[California Girl]

My sister in law was beaten and left for dead...the cops caught her husband in the act. He got two years...in a red state. Spare me your bullshit.

He could have killed her and been out in the same time in the UK. It's not bullshit. And, Bootneck agreed.... and he's a Brit. Their sentencing is shit. Same across the EU. And it is their liberal attitude.... big on 'rehabilitation'.

No..it's the good old boy network that applauds wife beating.

That may be true. I certainly wouldn't say it doesn't happen. But... in the UK, fact is, you could beat your wife to death and be out of prison in a few years. They have very liberal sentencing laws in Europe. It's not an either/or answer, Rav, it can be both.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

That is your opinion.

Do Not Marry Idol Worshipers
[2:221] Do not marry idolatresses unless they believe; a believing woman is better than an idolatress, even if you like her. Nor shall you give your daughters in marriage to idolatrous men, unless they believe. A believing man is better than an idolater, even if you like him. These invite to Hell, while GOD invites to Paradise and forgiveness, as He wills. He clarifies His revelations for the people, that they may take heed.

It is informed opinion. Informed by FACTS. There is an 'honor killing' issue in the UK. This issue has been researched by a variety of agencies. Each has concluded that it is cultural - ie it happens within certain cultures - not faith based. That evidences shows links between 'honor killings' and certain countries. Not certain faiths. Therefore, the evidence suggests that it the religion is not the determining factor, it is the country.

Beating women and tthose who do wrong to make them submissive is an Islamic tradition And is sanctified in Islamic scripture .
Commanding the Right & Forbidding the Wrong

That agencies of bureaucrats were unable to find any link with Islam comes as no surprise .

SOUTH ASIA BANGLADESH

Religions:

Muslim 89.5%, Hindu 9.6%, other 0.9% (2004)

They are currently unable to find any connection between Islamic fundamentalism and jihad in D.C..
Ensuring Muslims are not offended is the highest priority for many.

That some would suggest that "None of the world's major religions condone honour-related crimes."
Flies in the face of Islamic tradition
CRCC: Center For Muslim-Jewish Engagement: Resources: Religious Texts

SARIYYAH OF `UMAYR IBN `ADI
Then (occurred) the sariyyah of `Umayr ibn `Adi Ibn Kharashah al-Khatmi against `Asma' Bint Marwan, of Banu Umayyah Ibn Zayd, when five nights had remained from the month of Ramadan, in the beginning of the nineteenth month from the hijrah of the apostle of Allah.

`Asma' was the wife of Yazid Ibn Zayd Ibn Hisn al-Khatmi. She used to revile Islam, offend the prophet and instigate the (people) against him. She composed verses. Umayr Ibn Adi came to her in the night and entered her house. Her children were sleeping around her.

There was one whom she was suckling. He searched her with his hand because he was blind, and separated the child from her. He thrust his sword in her chest till it pierced up to her back. Then he offered the morning prayers with the prophet at al-Medina.

The apostle of Allah said to him: "Have you slain the daughter of Marwan?" He said: "Yes. Is there something more for me to do?" He [Muhammad] said: "No. Two goats will butt together about her. This was the word that was first heard from the apostle of Allah. The apostle of Allah called him `Umayr, "basir" (the seeing).

Since you found your way back to the thread, did you want to augment your position with some facts that disagree with my original assertion .

If you look at UK research into 'honor killings', the research correlates to certain countries rather than certain religions. In this case, it happened to be Muslims, but it is not because of Islam, it is because of the traditional cultural in Bangladesh.

This happens in other faiths, such as Hindus, in those countries too. Therefore, the evidence points to it being cultural from the country, and not their religion.

SOUTH ASIA BANGLADESH

Religions:

Muslim 89.5%, Hindu 9.6%, other 0.9% (2004)

 

[JamesInFlorida]

After reading this thread I'm shocked at 2 things:

1. To find how many people don't know the difference between civil and criminal court
2. That so many people can't separate religion from culture.

example: religions being twisted to carry out immoral acts is a result of the culture the individual lives in-not the actual religious teachings. Look no further than the Westboro Baptist Church.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

After reading this thread I'm shocked at 2 things:

1. To find how many people don't know the difference between civil and criminal court
2. That so many people can't separate religion from culture.

example: religions being twisted to carry out immoral acts is a result of the culture the individual lives in-not the actual religious teachings. Look no further than the Westboro Baptist Church.

Well Mr James please explain how a religion is being twisted when the the legal requirements for beating people into submission for doing unislamic things is on record.
Commanding the Right & Forbidding the Wrong

 

[Ravi]

I'm sorry about your sister in law ravi. I hope she is doing ok now. Here is the U.S., you may be right about the "good ole boy" network. But elsewhere in the world, this practice is accepted amongst women as well. This actress cannot even turn to her own mother.

In 2005 Der Spiegel reported: "In the past four months, six Muslim women living in Berlin have been brutally murdered by family members". Precise statistics on how many women die every year in such honor killings are hard to come by, as many crimes are never reported, said Myria Boehmecke of the Tuebingen-based women's group Terre des Femmes. The group tries to protect Muslim girls and women from oppressive families.

Every year in the United Kingdom (UK), officials estimate that at least a dozen women are victims of honor killings, almost exclusively within Asian and Middle Eastern families.[22] Often cases cannot be resolved due to the unwillingness of family, relatives and communities to testify. While precise figures do not exist for the perpetrators' cultural backgrounds, Diana Nammi of the UK's Iranian and Kurdish Women's Rights Organisation is reported to have said: "about two-thirds are Muslim. Yet they can also be Hindu and Sikh"[2

Kremlin-appointed Chechen President Ramzan Kadyrov said that honor killings were perpetrated on those who deserved to die. He said that those who are killed have "loose morals" and are rightfully shot by relatives in honor killings. He did not vilify women alone but added that "If a woman runs around and if a man runs around with her, both of them are killed."[81][82]

In 2007, a famous Norwegian judge stated that he wanted the punishment for murder of 17 years in prison to be reduced to 15 years in the case of honor killings practiced in Norway. He stated that the Norwegian public did not understand other cultures who practiced honor killings, or understand their thinking, and that Norweigan culture “is self-righteous”.[83]

An 2009 article in Middle East Quarterly argues that the United States is far behind Europe in acknowledging that honor killings are a special form of domestic violence, requiring special training and special programs to protect the young women and girls most likely to be the victim of such practices. The article suggests that the fear of being labeled "culturally insensitive" often prevents government officials in the United States and the media from identifying and accurately reporting these incidents as "honor killings" when they occur. Failing to accurately describe the problem makes it more difficult to develop public policies to address it.[39]

Honor killing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That's my fear. "Failing to accurately describe the problem makes it more difficult" and anyone who speaks out is labeled a bigot. We need to learn from Europe's mistakes before it's too late.

It isn't going to happen, ever...none of those countries have our constitution.

btw...it almost sounds as if you support stiffer punishments for hate crimes.

 

[chanel]

I support hate crime laws when violence is perpetuated on innocents.

 

[Ravi]

I support hate crime laws when violence is perpetuated on innocents.

Fair enough.

I have no idea what the normal penalty in GB for beating someone is...but as (if he is) a first offender I'm not surprised his sentence seems so light. I would much rather see him spend a couple of years in there...but again, I've no idea if GB has hate crime laws. If so, they certainly should have applied them in this case...it seems the mother of all hate crimes.

 

[Father Time]

"Her father accepted being bound over to keep the peace for 12 months in the sum of £500."

Could someone explain to me what this means?

 

[ekrem]

Is it her being independent minded to have a deaf ear on the preferences of her family for her or that at age 21 nature tells her to like man's 2nd personality more then anything else? In this case Hindu.
There is also the political rivalry in South-Asia, which shapes perceptions on each other.

As if wifes or daughters getting beat the shit out of them does happen only in Muslim families and everywhere else it's a big Kumbaya.

 

[chanel]

Nope it's not Kumbaya elsewhere. But it's far more dangerous in Muslim families (or cultures - take your pick)

"Failing to accurately describe the problem makes it more difficult to develop public policies to address it"

 

[Ravi]

"Her father accepted being bound over to keep the peace for 12 months in the sum of £500."

Could someone explain to me what this means?

I think it means he is on 12 months probation and must keep out of trouble with the law or his sentence may be revisited.

 

[rdean]

Sharia Law,
Read the Iraqi constitution. Republicans worked with Iraqis to put Sharia Law into place in Iraq where tens of thousands of Americans died or were maimed. If it's good for Iraq, it should be good everywhere. Right? Look how much it cost this country to establish that in Iraq.