MARINES: would you encourage your son to become one?

[Sunni Man]

I credit my kid with more than that at 18, but at 15 he learned how to drive with a video game mentality at first. Whenever he found himself in a tough situation, like turning into a tight lane, his reaction was to step on the gas hard, just like in a video game, you get in a tough spot and you go out guns blazing.

I thought the military counted on that strategy...

Soldiers with that kind of Rambo personality usually don't make it past their first firefight.

 

[MikeK]

Don't you love the yuppie opinion that "it takes a certian type of personality" to become a Marine?

You're obviously referring to my commentary so I'd like to know what exactly you mean by "yuppie."

High School graduates don't have a "certain type of personality".

Did someone say they did?

They are kids learning how to become leaders in a hostile world.

Unless you are referring specifically to Quantico, you need to understand that the primary purpose of Parris Island or Pendleton is teaching Marine recruits to follow, not lead.

Believe me, if they had the guts and determination to make it through Marine Corps boot camp regardless of whether they served in combat it would be an experience they would be proud of for the rest of their lives.

What about the kids who disqualify? There are drop-outs from almost every recruit platoon. Four dropped out of my Parris Island platoon in '56. I remember all four of them and had become friendly with one of them during the trip from Manhattan to Yamasee, SC. He was a fairly average fellow. Great sense of humor, smart and very likeable. I felt really bad when he broke down and just couldn't make formation on the fifth morning of Week One.

He was one of those whose personal makeup is simply not compatible with what the Marine Corps demands. There are others who make it through boot camp but who simply are not Marine Corps material. Unfortunately many of them end up in the brig and/or with less than honorable discharges. I knew a few of that type, too, and I can't say that any of them were basically bad human beings. They were just incompatible with the Marine Corps. In the Army, Navy or Air Force they might have been okay. But the point I tried to make in my original message is the Marine Corps can be pretty intense at times and some people, for one reason or other, are just not psychologically equipped to deal with it.

Once a Marine always a Marine and they would be the only ones to be able to use the term "Semper Fi" to address fellow MARINES.

While the Gung-Ho spirit is commendable it is not relevant to the question that opened this thread. The best answer to that question is it can't be substantively answered without having spoken at length with the boy.

 

[hortysir]

And that's the problem. Video games, such as America's Army or Battlefield 1942, glorifies every aspect of war without the user experiencing any of the actual consequences. In a video game, when you die you respawn and can play again. There are no continues on a real battlefield.

Also, in a video game, you don't witness your comrade's intestines leaking out nor do you smell the rot of the dead nor can you feel the pain of a severed limb. These kids who play a goddamn simulation and then want to be a real soldier have no fucking idea. None. Ze-ro.

So, if your son truly wants to be a soldier when he becomes of age, bear in mind he may still rely on battle simulations as an example of what really happens on a battlefield. I'm not patronizing you either. There are 18 year olds who join the army gung-ho thinking its going to be just like a video game. Sad, but true.

You are clueless beyond words.

You feign disgust at the thought of someone even considering enlisting and then opine about that which you have no fucking clue about.

I assure you that once boot camp is complete no one would think that war is like a video game.

Go pack another bong.
You had no business even responding to this thread as it wasn't addressed to you.

 

[Bones]

Go pack another bong.
You had no business even responding to this thread as it wasn't addressed to you.

Of course it wasn't. It was preaching to the military choir. Dissent cannot and will not be tolerated when conversing about such grave matters, eh?

Furthermore, I'd much rather pack a bong than indoctrinate children into become killing machines. The antiquated notion of the military "defending our freedom" is nothing more than a deceitful pack of lies. And even the most ardent war-monger must admit that winning a guerrilla war with traditional tactics is an impossibility. Or, is simply, an impossibility.

Trust me, considering this is the longest war/occupation in United States history, this bloody mid-eastern quagmire won't end until whatever president pulls out of Afghanistan/Iraq completely and starts focusing on defense rather than offense.

 

[daveman]

Go pack another bong.
You had no business even responding to this thread as it wasn't addressed to you.

Of course it wasn't. It was preaching to the military choir. Dissent cannot and will not be tolerated when conversing about such grave matters, eh?

Furthermore, I'd much rather pack a bong than indoctrinate children into become killing machines. The antiquated notion of the military "defending our freedom" is nothing more than a deceitful pack of lies. And even the most ardent war-monger must admit that winning a guerrilla war with traditional tactics is an impossibility. Or, is simply, an impossibility.

Trust me, considering this is the longest war/occupation in United States history, this bloody mid-eastern quagmire won't end until whatever president pulls out of Afghanistan/Iraq completely and starts focusing on defense rather than offense.

Yeah! Groovy! Speak truth to power, man!

 

[hortysir]

Furthermore, I'd much rather pack a bong than indoctrinate children into become killing machines. The antiquated notion of the military "defending our freedom" is nothing more than a deceitful pack of lies.

Yet generation after generation of these "killing machines" have kept your ancestors from speaking German or Japanese and you can freely insult this country without fear of imprisonment.

That's okay, we don't (didn't) mind defending little panty-waisted pussies like you.
There's those that do and those that don't and than there's those that hide behind those of us that do.

You're welcome.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Go pack another bong.
You had no business even responding to this thread as it wasn't addressed to you.

Of course it wasn't. It was preaching to the military choir. Dissent cannot and will not be tolerated when conversing about such grave matters, eh?

Furthermore, I'd much rather pack a bong than indoctrinate children into become killing machines. The antiquated notion of the military "defending our freedom" is nothing more than a deceitful pack of lies. And even the most ardent war-monger must admit that winning a guerrilla war with traditional tactics is an impossibility. Or, is simply, an impossibility.

Trust me, considering this is the longest war/occupation in United States history, this bloody mid-eastern quagmire won't end until whatever president pulls out of Afghanistan/Iraq completely and starts focusing on defense rather than offense.

Well now that we know that you know little about the military and even less about the history of terrorism.... You do realize that up until 9-11-01 we did play defense against terrorism. It didn't work. It won't work. The only way to defeat terrorism is to hit them before they hit us. You can stop most of them, but when one gets through you lost.

 

[daveman]

Furthermore, I'd much rather pack a bong than indoctrinate children into become killing machines. The antiquated notion of the military "defending our freedom" is nothing more than a deceitful pack of lies.

Yet generation after generation of these "killing machines" have kept your ancestors from speaking German or Japanese and you can freely insult this country without fear of imprisonment.

That's okay, we don't (didn't) mind defending little panty-waisted pussies like you.
There's those that do and those that don't and than there's those that hide behind those of us that do.

You're welcome.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
John Stuart Mill​

Looks like Mill had Bones nailed a long, long time ago.

 

[Bones]

Yet generation after generation of these "killing machines" have kept your ancestors from speaking German or Japanese and you can freely insult this country without fear of imprisonment.

Actually, it was ironically those red army commies (who you loathe so much) who actually took the brunt of WWII casualties and trampled the Germans into submission. The United States did play a significant part in defeating the axis, however they did not play as much of an integral role in destroying the axis as the Soviet Union did. Theoretically, if Hitler decided to stick with the Nazi-Soviet Non-Aggression pact throughout the war, the allies would have had a hell of a time defeating that duo juggernaut. And that's not even mentioning Japan and other axis powers into the equation...

 

[Bones]

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
John Stuart Mill​

Looks like Mill had Bones nailed a long, long time ago.

I never said "nothing is worth war". It's just the reasons our government gives us to go to war are utter rubbish. There is a difference.

 

[bodecea]

If the Navy won't take him...I guess the Marines will do.








Outrage in 3....2....1.....

 

[daveman]

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
John Stuart Mill​

Looks like Mill had Bones nailed a long, long time ago.

I never said "nothing is worth war". It's just the reasons our government gives us to go to war are utter rubbish. There is a difference.

Luckily for the nation, few people share your idea of what justifies war.

 

[MikeK]

[...]

Well now that we know that you know little about the military and even less about the history of terrorism.... You do realize that up until 9-11-01 we did play defense against terrorism. It didn't work. It won't work. The only way to defeat terrorism is to hit them before they hit us. You can stop most of them, but when one gets through you lost.

In order to "hit them first" we need to know who they are and they could be living right around the corner from you or me, as were the shahids who executed the 9/11 attack. So do you believe what we are doing in Iraq and Afghanistan is serving any terrorism-related purpose other than pissing off more jihadists every day and making them more determined to hit us again?

The way to minimize the risk of being hit again is to accept the fact that there is no way to win against a people who are ready to die to strike at you. While Americans are brainwashed to stupidly think of such obsessive determination as cowardice it is in fact a kind of fanatical courage most of us are incapable of comprehending.

We have seen that all it takes to kill 3,000 people and take down a national icon are nineteen fanatics who are ready to die. There are many thousands of such fanatics in the Middle East today, more are being inspired every day by our actions, and it's anybody's guess how many of them are living here right now or will be living here tomorrow.

We need to get out of the Middle East and leave those people alone! We can't win against them. Because the most dangerous weapon in the world is a man (or a woman) for whom suicide means martyrdom.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Well you go ahead and surrender to them. I have lived through the years of reacting after the fact, and it simply doesn't work.

 

[Jos]

By way of deception, thou shalt do war

 

[MikeK]

Well you go ahead and surrender to them. I have lived through the years of reacting after the fact, and it simply doesn't work.

Withdrawal from an aggressive position is not surrender. We withdrew from Vietnam. Was that surrender or cessation of a wasteful, counterproductive military activity? And how did withdrawal from Vietnam hurt America?

 

[SFC Ollie]

In the late 80's there was a Car bombing in Germany, as reaction to it the German authorities agreed to make the public Street in front of 93rd Sig Bde Hqs a no parking zone. So for a week they posted notices that beginning on a certain day there would be no parking there. On that day sure enough there were no cars and we were supposed to get 55 gallon drums full of sand to block off the front of the building. Needless to say, no sand or barrels showed up. A Major decided to pull up a couple of 2 1/2 ton trucks to block the building until the sand got there. I'll never forget what I told him. "Hell sir, if we're going to do that let's use the 5 tons, they have double the gas tanks to go boom when they get blown up." We waited for the sand and barrels.

Point is that reacting simply does not work. The next would be attack, the bomb was in a baby carriage that went off early. I forget how we reacted to that one......

 

[MikeK]

In the late 80's there was a Car bombing in Germany, as reaction to it the German authorities agreed to make the public Street in front of 93rd Sig Bde Hqs a no parking zone. So for a week they posted notices that beginning on a certain day there would be no parking there. On that day sure enough there were no cars and we were supposed to get 55 gallon drums full of sand to block off the front of the building. Needless to say, no sand or barrels showed up. A Major decided to pull up a couple of 2 1/2 ton trucks to block the building until the sand got there. I'll never forget what I told him. "Hell sir, if we're going to do that let's use the 5 tons, they have double the gas tanks to go boom when they get blown up." We waited for the sand and barrels.

Point is that reacting simply does not work. The next would be attack, the bomb was in a baby carriage that went off early. I forget how we reacted to that one......

Ollie,

This is not a smartass question -- but why are we still in Germany? We have troops all over the world and as any first year History student knows, that above all else, was the reason for the fall of Rome.

If we did not have that base in Germany the bombing would not have happened. And if we had paid attention to Osama bin Laden's warning, which was based on valid complaints, I am certain the 9/11 attack would not have happened.

We allow our so-called leaders to continually provoke this anger against us and I think we need to stop pissing people off.

 

[Gentle Storm]

Well you go ahead and surrender to them. I have lived through the years of reacting after the fact, and it simply doesn't work.

I have to agree with this one. If there was a country that policed the world like the United States, then we could act like Switzerland. But there isn't. Not long ago some of the smaller nations were lamenting that if the United States goes down, the world will become dark quickly. It would be nice to be able to kick back and let a different country do all the fighting, but there isn't one. Somebody has to step up to the plate or suffer the consequences. Thank you to those that have stepped up. You are our heroes.

 

[SFC Ollie]

In the late 80's there was a Car bombing in Germany, as reaction to it the German authorities agreed to make the public Street in front of 93rd Sig Bde Hqs a no parking zone. So for a week they posted notices that beginning on a certain day there would be no parking there. On that day sure enough there were no cars and we were supposed to get 55 gallon drums full of sand to block off the front of the building. Needless to say, no sand or barrels showed up. A Major decided to pull up a couple of 2 1/2 ton trucks to block the building until the sand got there. I'll never forget what I told him. "Hell sir, if we're going to do that let's use the 5 tons, they have double the gas tanks to go boom when they get blown up." We waited for the sand and barrels.

Point is that reacting simply does not work. The next would be attack, the bomb was in a baby carriage that went off early. I forget how we reacted to that one......

Ollie,

This is not a smartass question -- but why are we still in Germany? We have troops all over the world and as any first year History student knows, that above all else, was the reason for the fall of Rome.

If we did not have that base in Germany the bombing would not have happened. And if we had paid attention to Osama bin Laden's warning, which was based on valid complaints, I am certain the 9/11 attack would not have happened.

We allow our so-called leaders to continually provoke this anger against us and I think we need to stop pissing people off.

When this incident happened we were still in Germany because of the cold war. We have less than half the number of troops there now than we did in the 80's. Mainly we keep certain troops there as a forward operations base now more than anything else.

But listen to Bin Laden? You have got to be shitting me. That goes right along with Obama bowing to other rulers.

We have always had enemies, should we bow to them and listen to their warnings? What language do you want to learn?