MARINES: would you encourage your son to become one?

[MikeK]

[...]

But listen to Bin Laden? You have got to be shitting me. That goes right along with Obama bowing to other rulers.

We have always had enemies, should we bow to them and listen to their warnings? What language do you want to learn?

First, at the time Osama bin Laden initially issued his grievances to us he was not our enemy. In fact he was a provisional friend who had led a large faction of Mujahideen guerillas during their conflict with Russian occupiers in Afghanistan.

For the benefit of those who don't know what those grievances were I will summarize them here but the full transcript of John Miller's PBS interview with bin Laden in 1998 is available via Google.

First Grievance: In preparation for Operation Desert Storm H.W. Bush requested and was granted permission to establish a temporary staging area in Saudi Arabia on the edge of Mecca, the Islamic Holy Land. Instead of removing the installation when Desert Storm was completed, as was originally promised, the temporary installation gradually became a full-size military base which extended more deeply into Mecca and became a serious offense to devout Muslims throughout the Islamic world. Bin Laden repeatedly requested that the base be removed as promised but his requests were ignored by both Clinton and Bush.

Second Grievance: When Israel began expanding its territory into the Gaza region by building settlements and aggressively evicting the Palestinians from land they had occupied for generations, bin Laden protested U.S. support of Israel and in 2000 his request that the U.S. pressure Israel to cease that expansion was ignored. It was then that he issued his warning to Bush that if the bin Sultan Air Base was not removed from Mecca, and if Israel did not remove the new settlements from the Gaza region, "a great misery will befall the United States."

In spite of the fact that Bush had been warned (by Richard Clarke and others in his administration) that it wasn't wise to provoke the fanatical Al Qaeda faction without valid cause, Bush expressed contempt for bin Laden's warning with his typical "Bring it on" attitude. But it wasn't long after the 9/11 attack that Bush quietly removed the bin Sultan Air Base from Mecca and he pressured Sharon to evict the new settlers from the Gaza region, which was done. If the stupid bastard had the good sense to understand that bin Laden's grievances were valid, and had he cooperated with those reasonable requests when they were made, 3,000 American civilians would not have died hideous deaths, nor would 4,000+ American military personnel be dead and tens of thousands more maimed, we wouldn't be engaged in two costly and totally unnecessary occupations, our treasury wouldn't be empty, the World Trade Center would still be standing and we would not be driven into a state of precautionary paranoia.

So, Ollie. If your dog shits on my lawn and I ask you more than once to put a stop to it, and you see that I'm getting angrier each time I ask, and if you've heard that I have a bad temper and a reputation for violent conduct, do you think it's smart to ignore my reasonable requests and just allow your dog to keep shitting on my lawn?

 

[SFC Ollie]

[...]

But listen to Bin Laden? You have got to be shitting me. That goes right along with Obama bowing to other rulers.

We have always had enemies, should we bow to them and listen to their warnings? What language do you want to learn?

First, at the time Osama bin Laden initially issued his grievances to us he was not our enemy. In fact he was a provisional friend who had led a large faction of Mujahideen guerillas during their conflict with Russian occupiers in Afghanistan.

For the benefit of those who don't know what those grievances were I will summarize them here but the full transcript of John Miller's PBS interview with bin Laden in 1998 is available via Google.

First Grievance: In preparation for Operation Desert Storm H.W. Bush requested and was granted permission to establish a temporary staging area in Saudi Arabia on the edge of Mecca, the Islamic Holy Land. Instead of removing the installation when Desert Storm was completed, as was originally promised, the temporary installation gradually became a full-size military base which extended more deeply into Mecca and became a serious offense to devout Muslims throughout the Islamic world. Bin Laden repeatedly requested that the base be removed as promised but his requests were ignored by both Clinton and Bush.

Second Grievance: When Israel began expanding its territory into the Gaza region by building settlements and aggressively evicting the Palestinians from land they had occupied for generations, bin Laden protested U.S. support of Israel and in 2000 his request that the U.S. pressure Israel to cease that expansion was ignored. It was then that he issued his warning to Bush that if the bin Sultan Air Base was not removed from Mecca, and if Israel did not remove the new settlements from the Gaza region, "a great misery will befall the United States."

In spite of the fact that Bush had been warned (by Richard Clarke and others in his administration) that it wasn't wise to provoke the fanatical Al Qaeda faction without valid cause, Bush expressed contempt for bin Laden's warning with his typical "Bring it on" attitude. But it wasn't long after the 9/11 attack that Bush quietly removed the bin Sultan Air Base from Mecca and he pressured Sharon to evict the new settlers from the Gaza region, which was done. If the stupid bastard had the good sense to understand that bin Laden's grievances were valid, and had he cooperated with those reasonable requests when they were made, 3,000 American civilians would not have died hideous deaths, nor would 4,000+ American military personnel be dead and tens of thousands more maimed, we wouldn't be engaged in two costly and totally unnecessary occupations, our treasury wouldn't be empty, the World Trade Center would still be standing and we would not be driven into a state of precautionary paranoia.

So, Ollie. If your dog shits on my lawn and I ask you more than once to put a stop to it, and you see that I'm getting angrier each time I ask, and if you've heard that I have a bad temper and a reputation for violent conduct, do you think it's smart to ignore my reasonable requests and just allow your dog to keep shitting on my lawn?

And Bin Laden is the head of which government? No sir, The United States cannot bend her knee to a terrorist asshole like Bin Laden.

 

[asterism]

If the Navy won't take him...I guess the Marines will do.








Outrage in 3....2....1.....

Pfft

 

[asterism]

In the late 80's there was a Car bombing in Germany, as reaction to it the German authorities agreed to make the public Street in front of 93rd Sig Bde Hqs a no parking zone. So for a week they posted notices that beginning on a certain day there would be no parking there. On that day sure enough there were no cars and we were supposed to get 55 gallon drums full of sand to block off the front of the building. Needless to say, no sand or barrels showed up. A Major decided to pull up a couple of 2 1/2 ton trucks to block the building until the sand got there. I'll never forget what I told him. "Hell sir, if we're going to do that let's use the 5 tons, they have double the gas tanks to go boom when they get blown up." We waited for the sand and barrels.

Point is that reacting simply does not work. The next would be attack, the bomb was in a baby carriage that went off early. I forget how we reacted to that one......

Ollie,

This is not a smartass question -- but why are we still in Germany? We have troops all over the world and as any first year History student knows, that above all else, was the reason for the fall of Rome.

If we did not have that base in Germany the bombing would not have happened. And if we had paid attention to Osama bin Laden's warning, which was based on valid complaints, I am certain the 9/11 attack would not have happened.

We allow our so-called leaders to continually provoke this anger against us and I think we need to stop pissing people off.

Your statement seems to convey that you think that Bin Laden is not after power, but some sense of peace and harmony. He's miffed because he wanted to be the savior of Saudi Arabia and King Fahd opted to ask the USA instead.

You obviously missed Bin Laden's fatwa against the United States for making scrambled satellite movies available worldwide, movies that had content he deemed immoral. You seem to think he would just leave us alone if we just left him alone. That is very naive and actually allows him to acquire more power, secure territory for himself. While it's too simplistic in detail, a general way to look at this is to compare Bin Laden to a gang leader who says that the only reason his gang is attacking the police is because of their racial profiling. Do you not see how foolhardy that is?

 

[asterism]

[...]

But listen to Bin Laden? You have got to be shitting me. That goes right along with Obama bowing to other rulers.

We have always had enemies, should we bow to them and listen to their warnings? What language do you want to learn?

First, at the time Osama bin Laden initially issued his grievances to us he was not our enemy. In fact he was a provisional friend who had led a large faction of Mujahideen guerillas during their conflict with Russian occupiers in Afghanistan.

For the benefit of those who don't know what those grievances were I will summarize them here but the full transcript of John Miller's PBS interview with bin Laden in 1998 is available via Google.

First Grievance: In preparation for Operation Desert Storm H.W. Bush requested and was granted permission to establish a temporary staging area in Saudi Arabia on the edge of Mecca, the Islamic Holy Land. Instead of removing the installation when Desert Storm was completed, as was originally promised, the temporary installation gradually became a full-size military base which extended more deeply into Mecca and became a serious offense to devout Muslims throughout the Islamic world. Bin Laden repeatedly requested that the base be removed as promised but his requests were ignored by both Clinton and Bush.

Second Grievance: When Israel began expanding its territory into the Gaza region by building settlements and aggressively evicting the Palestinians from land they had occupied for generations, bin Laden protested U.S. support of Israel and in 2000 his request that the U.S. pressure Israel to cease that expansion was ignored. It was then that he issued his warning to Bush that if the bin Sultan Air Base was not removed from Mecca, and if Israel did not remove the new settlements from the Gaza region, "a great misery will befall the United States."

In spite of the fact that Bush had been warned (by Richard Clarke and others in his administration) that it wasn't wise to provoke the fanatical Al Qaeda faction without valid cause, Bush expressed contempt for bin Laden's warning with his typical "Bring it on" attitude. But it wasn't long after the 9/11 attack that Bush quietly removed the bin Sultan Air Base from Mecca and he pressured Sharon to evict the new settlers from the Gaza region, which was done. If the stupid bastard had the good sense to understand that bin Laden's grievances were valid, and had he cooperated with those reasonable requests when they were made, 3,000 American civilians would not have died hideous deaths, nor would 4,000+ American military personnel be dead and tens of thousands more maimed, we wouldn't be engaged in two costly and totally unnecessary occupations, our treasury wouldn't be empty, the World Trade Center would still be standing and we would not be driven into a state of precautionary paranoia.

So, Ollie. If your dog shits on my lawn and I ask you more than once to put a stop to it, and you see that I'm getting angrier each time I ask, and if you've heard that I have a bad temper and a reputation for violent conduct, do you think it's smart to ignore my reasonable requests and just allow your dog to keep shitting on my lawn?

So sad that all you have is a post 1998 perspective on Bin Laden. Some of us knew about him when we were in the proxy war he set up in Somalia. Back then we were told that the warlords weren't being manipulated by outside forces and were only trying to feed their people - by shooting at the very people feeding them.

Respectfully, fuck you and your worldview. It's egregiously flawed.

 

[Bones]

Bin Laden has been dead for a few years now, however the media still parades his photo around from time to time and gives us new, "authentic" audio tidbits of his voice. We might as well call him Emmanuel Goldstein considering his face is now used for merely propaganda purposes.

Striking fear into the hearts of Americans is certainly useful for the United State government.

 

[hortysir]

[...]

But listen to Bin Laden? You have got to be shitting me. That goes right along with Obama bowing to other rulers.

We have always had enemies, should we bow to them and listen to their warnings? What language do you want to learn?

First, at the time Osama bin Laden initially issued his grievances to us he was not our enemy. In fact he was a provisional friend who had led a large faction of Mujahideen guerillas during their conflict with Russian occupiers in Afghanistan.

For the benefit of those who don't know what those grievances were I will summarize them here but the full transcript of John Miller's PBS interview with bin Laden in 1998 is available via Google.

First Grievance: In preparation for Operation Desert Storm H.W. Bush requested and was granted permission to establish a temporary staging area in Saudi Arabia on the edge of Mecca, the Islamic Holy Land. Instead of removing the installation when Desert Storm was completed, as was originally promised, the temporary installation gradually became a full-size military base which extended more deeply into Mecca and became a serious offense to devout Muslims throughout the Islamic world. Bin Laden repeatedly requested that the base be removed as promised but his requests were ignored by both Clinton and Bush.

Second Grievance: When Israel began expanding its territory into the Gaza region by building settlements and aggressively evicting the Palestinians from land they had occupied for generations, bin Laden protested U.S. support of Israel and in 2000 his request that the U.S. pressure Israel to cease that expansion was ignored. It was then that he issued his warning to Bush that if the bin Sultan Air Base was not removed from Mecca, and if Israel did not remove the new settlements from the Gaza region, "a great misery will befall the United States."

In spite of the fact that Bush had been warned (by Richard Clarke and others in his administration) that it wasn't wise to provoke the fanatical Al Qaeda faction without valid cause, Bush expressed contempt for bin Laden's warning with his typical "Bring it on" attitude. But it wasn't long after the 9/11 attack that Bush quietly removed the bin Sultan Air Base from Mecca and he pressured Sharon to evict the new settlers from the Gaza region, which was done. If the stupid bastard had the good sense to understand that bin Laden's grievances were valid, and had he cooperated with those reasonable requests when they were made, 3,000 American civilians would not have died hideous deaths, nor would 4,000+ American military personnel be dead and tens of thousands more maimed, we wouldn't be engaged in two costly and totally unnecessary occupations, our treasury wouldn't be empty, the World Trade Center would still be standing and we would not be driven into a state of precautionary paranoia.

So, Ollie. If your dog shits on my lawn and I ask you more than once to put a stop to it, and you see that I'm getting angrier each time I ask, and if you've heard that I have a bad temper and a reputation for violent conduct, do you think it's smart to ignore my reasonable requests and just allow your dog to keep shitting on my lawn?

That's one man talking to one man.

You're expecting entire nations to bow to the whim of one psychotic terrorist.

Go ask Bones if he'll share his bong.

 

[rdean]

To the Marines on this board: Would you encourage your sons to become Marines?

My son has asked for my blessing, and I've already given it but I am completely losing it between trusting God and then thinking what could happen if he were captured. Threats to come after him if he has been captured have not been successful in dissuading him from signing (having your mom show up to rescue you...would a man be embarrassed by anything more? heh)

So I am sincerely asking, WHAT IS "breaking him down" really? Is that like twisting the heads off of puppies to destroy all softness in him?

And would you encourage your son to follow your footsteps and join? Does that even happen? Are there generational Marines?

Thank you very much.

I encouraged my stepson to join the Marines.
I'm ex-Navy so it wasn't easy
That was before 9-11. He ended up being in the first push into Iraq.
I couldn't be more proud.
The "breaking down" is just a Vulcan mind trick kinda thing. They gotta get them down to the basics so they can react with instinct and follow orders without clouded thought.
Second-guesses and taking the time for your conscience to weigh in will get you hurt or killed.

The obvious love you have for your son has built the foundation of a great man. The Marine Corps can build on to that with respect, attention to detail, drive, and a brotherhood of Marines (past and present) that will propell him through life with his head screwed on tight, held high, and looking straight ahead.

Of course these are the opinions of a dad.
Watching my wife sit up through the nights with her eyes glued to the 24hr news, trying to catch a glimpse or a sound byte about his unit, worrying over every IED report, jumping out of her skin every time the phone rang, etc.... She would tell you, in no uncertain terms "NO".

For what the US military asked of them, it's impossible not to be proud.

But for the politicians who sent them there, I have a serious case of rage.

 

[RoccoR]

et al,

Hard to disagree with:

For what the US military asked of them, it's impossible not to be proud.

But for the politicians who sent them there, I have a serious case of rage.

(COMMENT)

Across the board, our service members (all Branches) have done as well as any I've seen, since RVN.

But I agree, our Washington based leadership (both parties) have given me cause for pause; and my confidence in their leadership abilities was never as low as it is today.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[rdean]

et al,

Hard to disagree with:

For what the US military asked of them, it's impossible not to be proud.

But for the politicians who sent them there, I have a serious case of rage.

(COMMENT)

Across the board, our service members (all Branches) have done as well as any I've seen, since RVN.

But I agree, our Washington based leadership (both parties) have given me cause for pause; and my confidence in their leadership abilities was never as low as it is today.

Most Respectfully,
R

When you have one party saying, "You are with us or with the terrorists" and saying they have "slam dunk" evidence, how can you not support them? It would be unAmerican. Who knew the entire leadership of an American Party would lie to the people and trick them into supporting something as tragic as the assault on Iraq?

If Iraq were such a success, how come there is no "American Appreciation Day" instead of "Death to America"? It's just that simple. If we "liberated Iraq", how come they hate our guts?

France didn't after we liberated them from the Nazi's. In fact, Europe and Asia saw us as "hero's" and built monuments to us. In Iraq, they build a monument to the man who threw shoes at our president. It's that simple. There is no way around it. You can't put lipstick on a pig.

 

[SFC Ollie]

et al,

Hard to disagree with:

For what the US military asked of them, it's impossible not to be proud.

But for the politicians who sent them there, I have a serious case of rage.

(COMMENT)

Across the board, our service members (all Branches) have done as well as any I've seen, since RVN.

But I agree, our Washington based leadership (both parties) have given me cause for pause; and my confidence in their leadership abilities was never as low as it is today.

Most Respectfully,
R

When you have one party saying, "You are with us or with the terrorists" and saying they have "slam dunk" evidence, how can you not support them? It would be unAmerican. Who knew the entire leadership of an American Party would lie to the people and trick them into supporting something as tragic as the assault on Iraq?

If Iraq were such a success, how come there is no "American Appreciation Day" instead of "Death to America"? It's just that simple. If we "liberated Iraq", how come they hate our guts?

France didn't after we liberated them from the Nazi's. In fact, Europe and Asia saw us as "hero's" and built monuments to us. In Iraq, they build a monument to the man who threw shoes at our president. It's that simple. There is no way around it. You can't put lipstick on a pig.

Yet you keep trying. There is nothing political about this thread dumbass.

 

[High_Gravity]

Thanks for this and thanks for serving our country!

My son is unique. He's a strong, good looking guy with a personality of Seinfeld. IMO his approach at life is one of the best, he looks for ways to laugh in every situation. He's a class clown but not rebelliously, I mean, he doesn't go for laughs from the class by dissing the teacher, he doesn't have to, he finds too much humor in whatever surrounds him. So his teachers have all loved him and raved about him. They have tried to give me credit for him as some have here, but I really can't take it. He was born this way. I did daycare, I know, having watched so many kids grow up, their disposition is often what they're born with. And I'm afraid part of the reason he wants to join may be because he craves discipline which I never gave him. I never had to. And the rare times he ever did anything wrong, I pretty much didn't punish him if he told me about it on his own. My kids both grew up knowing if they told the truth, it pretty much got them off scott free. A lot of people would chastise me for that but..gosh they've just always been so good.

So, um, if he does something wrong in life and thinks he's going to get away with it as long as he voluntarily admits it, um.....it doesn't usually turn out that way in real life...oops.

Seinfeld in the Marines...I just don't get it. But he's determined. And after this board and the many military and special ops friends I've talked with...I guess I'm going to have to support it fully and pray he comes home safe.

Thanks so much for all the input, it has really helped, and has been confirmed offline too.

From what you say he sounds he will do fine in the Marines.

It sure sounds like you've served without saying so...if so, thanks so much

and thanks for all the info!

Yes I was in the Air Force for 7 years.

 

[High_Gravity]

Bin Laden has been dead for a few years now, however the media still parades his photo around from time to time and gives us new, "authentic" audio tidbits of his voice. We might as well call him Emmanuel Goldstein considering his face is now used for merely propaganda purposes.

Striking fear into the hearts of Americans is certainly useful for the United State government.

What proof do you have to show that this man is dead?

 

[old navy]

I did three FMF tours as a Corpsman. I spent more time with the Corps than most Marines ever do so I think I qualify to answer this question. My son has completed Marine OCS and will be commissioned after he graduates college this year. Not only did I recommend the USMC to him, I did to my daughter as well. She is not joining though.

 

[aplcr0331]

I would do as much research as possible before he joins. Some things to consider; What does he want to do career wise and education wise and those questions must be answered in their immediacy as well as no less than five years into the future. What is he looking for from the armed forces? Education, job training, adventure, respect, confidence, etc?

Check ALL of the branches out. Marines fill a niche and are good at what they do. Army has a niche and is good at what it does. Air Force has a niche and is good at what it does, you can see where I am going with this. Some branches of the service are more disciplined, some are easier to get into than others, some more military in their approach and some more business-like in their approach. Some branches have a better quality of life for their members (never take this one lightly), and some are hidden gems (Coast Guard).

He needs to study and get the best score possible on the ASVAB. It opens up a ton of doors for you. There are so many opportunities in the military that it is mind-boggling. Joining the military is a smart choice all around, but it needs to be an informed choice.

My advice to my sons (I have three: 10, 6, and 10 months) will be as I've told you but I would not have the Marines as my top choice, I would go with another branch. That being said, I will rank the services (IMHO) so you can get an idea where I stand:

1. Air Force
2. Marines
3. Coast Guard
4. Army
5. Navy

Good luck with your decision and especially to your son.

C

 

[JenT]

et al,

Hard to disagree with:

For what the US military asked of them, it's impossible not to be proud.

But for the politicians who sent them there, I have a serious case of rage.

(COMMENT)

Across the board, our service members (all Branches) have done as well as any I've seen, since RVN.

But I agree, our Washington based leadership (both parties) have given me cause for pause; and my confidence in their leadership abilities was never as low as it is today.

Most Respectfully,
R

When you have one party saying, "You are with us or with the terrorists" and saying they have "slam dunk" evidence, how can you not support them? It would be unAmerican. Who knew the entire leadership of an American Party would lie to the people and trick them into supporting something as tragic as the assault on Iraq?

If Iraq were such a success, how come there is no "American Appreciation Day" instead of "Death to America"? It's just that simple. If we "liberated Iraq", how come they hate our guts?

France didn't after we liberated them from the Nazi's. In fact, Europe and Asia saw us as "hero's" and built monuments to us. In Iraq, they build a monument to the man who threw shoes at our president. It's that simple. There is no way around it. You can't put lipstick on a pig.

Yeah when the Sears Tower went down, you would think we would have realized it didn't help to respond to the terrorists where they live...

oh wait...

maybe we should put a mosque in there out of gratitude for allowing it to stand, ya think?

 

[MikeK]

I did three FMF tours as a Corpsman. I spent more time with the Corps than most Marines ever do so I think I qualify to answer this question. My son has completed Marine OCS and will be commissioned after he graduates college this year. Not only did I recommend the USMC to him, I did to my daughter as well. She is not joining though.

Doc,

First, my hat is off to Navy Medics, especially FMF field corpsmen.

You certainly do know the Corps better than most Marines do. And you know your son better than any stranger does, so you are perfectly qualified to make the recommendation to him.

Semper Fi.

 

[old navy]

Thanks Mike.

 

[JenT]

A huge THANK YOU to all the Marines and military that answered on this thread. Even though I don't always believe EVERYTHING I read, this was a huge comfort to me as I watched my son pursue and accomplish becoming a Marine.

One of my biggest concerns was he would wake up desperate to get out of something he couldn't get out of. It turns out that he loves everything about the Marines, though he's just getting started. He's already saying he hopes to make a career out of it. So thank you so much to everyone who comforted me as I waited to find out what was really happening.

And thanks again for serving our country.

 

[Katzndogz]

I would not encourage anyone to join the American miitary of today, any branch, it doesn't matter. This regime has turned it all to crap.