Man mistakenly arrested-for burglarizing own home-is jailed

[JakeStarkey]

A suspect has an obligation to identify himself when detained and questioned. Every court in the land will uphold that concept.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Texas has, if I remember correctly, a law that requires an individual to surrender peacefully to LEO even if the the arrest in unwarranted. The only exception would be that the individual had reasonable suspicion that the LEO intended to kill or maim regardless what the suspect did.

One, surrender peacefully to the officers. Two, tell them politely you are the homeowner. Three, tell them politely a lawsuit is coming and they can make it easier by releasing the suspect from custody immediately. Four, regardless of LEO actions after that, sue, sue, sue.

Someone told me putting liens on officers' homes generally caught their attention.

No it doesn't.

 

[Tank]

Just some illegal beaner running from the cops, nothing new.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Texas has, if I remember correctly, a law that requires an individual to surrender peacefully to LEO even if the the arrest in unwarranted. The only exception would be that the individual had reasonable suspicion that the LEO intended to kill or maim regardless what the suspect did.

One, surrender peacefully to the officers. Two, tell them politely you are the homeowner. Three, tell them politely a lawsuit is coming and they can make it easier by releasing the suspect from custody immediately. Four, regardless of LEO actions after that, sue, sue, sue.

Someone told me putting liens on officers' homes generally caught their attention.

No it doesn't.

I believe it would. You are wrong.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Texas has, if I remember correctly, a law that requires an individual to surrender peacefully to LEO even if the the arrest in unwarranted. The only exception would be that the individual had reasonable suspicion that the LEO intended to kill or maim regardless what the suspect did.

One, surrender peacefully to the officers. Two, tell them politely you are the homeowner. Three, tell them politely a lawsuit is coming and they can make it easier by releasing the suspect from custody immediately. Four, regardless of LEO actions after that, sue, sue, sue.

Someone told me putting liens on officers' homes generally caught their attention.

No it doesn't.

I believe it would. You are wrong.

Wrong about what?

Police officers are immune from lawsuits for anything they do on duty. If you sue them they you cannot put a lien on their house. In fact, you cannot sue anyone in Texas and put a lien on their primary residence.

Want to tell me again I am wrong?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Yes he did kick in the door and everyone knows who the police are.

Bet he was high.

What drugs did the police find at the scene?


its about time these fucking MExicans learn that in 'merica, we can kick in your door and beat you whenever we want.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Police officers are immune from lawsuits for anything they do on duty.

Not if they didn't act in good faith.

I think here they did though.

 

[Annie]

A neighbor reported the door being kicked in, that does not mean the door was kicked in. The fact that no one actually tried to say that it was kicked in at any point during the trial tells me it wasn't.

From the OP:

When Deaton played the audio from inside Davis’ car, Davis can be heard telling Cagnon, “He lives there? OK, why did he kick the door in?”

When Deaton played the audio from inside Davis’ car, Davis can be heard telling Cagnon, “He lives there? OK, why did he kick the door in?” After a short pause, the officer says, “All right, what do we need to do?”
Deaton contended in court that Lufkin Police had no intention of filing an evading arrest charge against Saucedo until after they realized the burglary charge would not stick.
“At the jail you didn’t say anything about resisting arrest, just the burglary,” Deaton said to Davis.
“Sir, burglary is the more serious offense,” Davis said.

The door was not kicked in, it was reportedly kicked in. Even if it had been kicked in the cops were wrong to arrest the guy and charge him with burglary after they knew he lived there. That makes the cops wrong, period. The fact that this guy happens to be Hispanic is irrelevent to everyone but a few assholes.

If your neighbors call and say someone kicked in your door, would you expect the police to respond? I do think it's weird that the neighbor didn't recognize the man, but perhaps he just moved in?

Perhaps George can answer this, but once the police knew that he live in the house, while on the way to the hospital, they charged him due to the discharging of the pepper spray and bullets, then the fact that he had the gash on his head. Without some charge, would it create more of a problem for them if civil charges were later filed against the police or city?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

From the OP:

When Deaton played the audio from inside Davis’ car, Davis can be heard telling Cagnon, “He lives there? OK, why did he kick the door in?”

When Deaton played the audio from inside Davis’ car, Davis can be heard telling Cagnon, “He lives there? OK, why did he kick the door in?” After a short pause, the officer says, “All right, what do we need to do?”
Deaton contended in court that Lufkin Police had no intention of filing an evading arrest charge against Saucedo until after they realized the burglary charge would not stick.
“At the jail you didn’t say anything about resisting arrest, just the burglary,” Deaton said to Davis.
“Sir, burglary is the more serious offense,” Davis said.

The door was not kicked in, it was reportedly kicked in. Even if it had been kicked in the cops were wrong to arrest the guy and charge him with burglary after they knew he lived there. That makes the cops wrong, period. The fact that this guy happens to be Hispanic is irrelevent to everyone but a few assholes.

If your neighbors call and say someone kicked in your door, would you expect the police to respond? I do think it's weird that the neighbor didn't recognize the man, but perhaps he just moved in?

Perhaps George can answer this, but once the police knew that he live in the house, while on the way to the hospital, they charged him due to the discharging of the pepper spray and bullets, then the fact that he had the gash on his head. Without some charge, would it create more of a problem for them if civil charges were later filed against the police or city?

No.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

From the OP:

When Deaton played the audio from inside Davis’ car, Davis can be heard telling Cagnon, “He lives there? OK, why did he kick the door in?”

When Deaton played the audio from inside Davis’ car, Davis can be heard telling Cagnon, “He lives there? OK, why did he kick the door in?” After a short pause, the officer says, “All right, what do we need to do?”
Deaton contended in court that Lufkin Police had no intention of filing an evading arrest charge against Saucedo until after they realized the burglary charge would not stick.
“At the jail you didn’t say anything about resisting arrest, just the burglary,” Deaton said to Davis.
“Sir, burglary is the more serious offense,” Davis said.

The door was not kicked in, it was reportedly kicked in. Even if it had been kicked in the cops were wrong to arrest the guy and charge him with burglary after they knew he lived there. That makes the cops wrong, period. The fact that this guy happens to be Hispanic is irrelevent to everyone but a few assholes.

If your neighbors call and say someone kicked in your door, would you expect the police to respond? I do think it's weird that the neighbor didn't recognize the man, but perhaps he just moved in?

Perhaps George can answer this, but once the police knew that he live in the house, while on the way to the hospital, they charged him due to the discharging of the pepper spray and bullets, then the fact that he had the gash on his head. Without some charge, would it create more of a problem for them if civil charges were later filed against the police or city?

Would I expect them to respond?

Yes?

Would I tolerate them walking into my house without a warrant?

No.

You are right about one thing though, they only charged him because they beat the crap out of him.

 

[MeBelle]

I have been following this story for a while so I know that he had been described as having the mind of a child.

Angelina County jury finds man guilty of evading arrest after being mistaken for burglar in his own home - The Lufkin Daily News: Local & State

Did I say the cops should know who he was?

A neighbor reported the door being kicked in, that does not mean the door was kicked in. The fact that no one actually tried to say that it was kicked in at any point during the trial tells me it wasn't.

As for them speaking Spanish, that was brought up at trial. From the OP.




I still want to know what mistakes the guy made in hiding from people in his own home. I really want to know what he did wrong that got this comment from the judge.


From my link earlier.



WTF? Did this guy go to law school? The right to remain silent is inviolable in a criminal case, why is the judge using the fact that he exercised it at all. Additionally, how did he put anyone in harms way? It was his house, and the police entered it without his permission. I wouldn't have had a problem if he shot every single one of them for that. He didn't do that, he hid in the bathroom, just like any other child would.

The right to remain silent applies after one has been arrested. Perhaps the judge was lamenting because the defendant didn't speak for himself during trial, even through an interpreter. Probably on advise from his Public Defender.

Anytime anyone does not obey a police officers command, such as the menial 'pull over' if speeding or running a red light, etc, it DOES put police in harms way because they have NO idea who they may be dealing with.

Anyone recall any reports of police officers being shot and killed when attempting a traffic stop? Here's a few:
York Region police officer killed during traffic stop | Posted Toronto | National Post
Two Tampa police officers shot, killed during traffic stop - St. Petersburg Times
Two Arkansas police officers killed during traffic stop on I-40
Traffic stop - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Police officers being killed while responding to B&E calls:
Suburban Detroit police officer shot and killed | Deseret News
TAYLOR: Suspect in officer's killing has a long criminal history (with videos) - thenewsherald.com
News - Hospital Security - Campus Safety Magazine
THE WASHINGTON TIMES, President is present for rapper, absent for cop memorial | Facebook

Stick a fork in me and call me DONE!

The right to remain silent applies to everyone before, during, and after arrest.

the only thing that puts a police officer in danger if I am walking away from him is his decision to chase me down and beat the crap out of me. If he makes that choice he deserves it if he trips over the crack on the sidewalk.

WRONG! Miranda is NOT read until a suspect is arrested. Prior to that, they can talk all they want.
JakeStarkey said " A suspect has an obligation to identify himself when detained and questioned. Every court in the land will uphold that concept "

Apparently, you cannot read links which prove fact. I don't mean you Jake.

 

[JakeStarkey]

WindBag, please don't act on what you are saying you think. If you are detained and questioned, simply tell the officers they are charge, your name and address, and that you want counsel. Keep saying that NICELY. They will let you go or take you to the LEO lock up where you can call your attorney.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The right to remain silent applies after one has been arrested. Perhaps the judge was lamenting because the defendant didn't speak for himself during trial, even through an interpreter. Probably on advise from his Public Defender.

Anytime anyone does not obey a police officers command, such as the menial 'pull over' if speeding or running a red light, etc, it DOES put police in harms way because they have NO idea who they may be dealing with.

Anyone recall any reports of police officers being shot and killed when attempting a traffic stop? Here's a few:
York Region police officer killed during traffic stop | Posted Toronto | National Post
Two Tampa police officers shot, killed during traffic stop - St. Petersburg Times
Two Arkansas police officers killed during traffic stop on I-40
Traffic stop - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Police officers being killed while responding to B&E calls:
Suburban Detroit police officer shot and killed | Deseret News
TAYLOR: Suspect in officer's killing has a long criminal history (with videos) - thenewsherald.com
News - Hospital Security - Campus Safety Magazine
THE WASHINGTON TIMES, President is present for rapper, absent for cop memorial | Facebook

Stick a fork in me and call me DONE!

The right to remain silent applies to everyone before, during, and after arrest.

the only thing that puts a police officer in danger if I am walking away from him is his decision to chase me down and beat the crap out of me. If he makes that choice he deserves it if he trips over the crack on the sidewalk.

WRONG! Miranda is NOT read until a suspect is arrested. Prior to that, they can talk all they want.
JakeStarkey said " A suspect has an obligation to identify himself when detained and questioned. Every court in the land will uphold that concept "

Apparently, you cannot read links which prove fact. I don't mean you Jake.

You can talk even after you are arrested. The things is, if I chose not to answer questions, there is not a fucking thing the cops can legally do.

For evidence I present this video. The guy was walking legally down the street and got stopped by a cop. Not only did he not show his ID, he refused to give his name, even when the cop told him he had to. (The cop lied, and bot people in the conversation knew it.) In other words, he refused to answer questions even though he was not under arrest.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMMPV4D6cs0]‪Oceanside open carry‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]

I guess that proves both you and Starkey wrong. I am not surprised that he is wrong, but I am disappointed in him misleading you. There are plenty of courts that will uphold the right of people not to identify themselves when detained by the police.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

WindBag, please don't act on what you are saying you think. If you are detained and questioned, simply tell the officers they are charge, your name and address, and that you want counsel. Keep saying that NICELY. They will let you go or take you to the LEO lock up where you can call your attorney.

Fuck them. If I feel like exercising my right to ignore them I will do so. If I also feel like exercising my right to to have a bad day I will do that to. They have plenty of idiots to kiss their ass, they need to remember that they work for us.

 

[Sunshine]

The right to remain silent applies to everyone before, during, and after arrest.

the only thing that puts a police officer in danger if I am walking away from him is his decision to chase me down and beat the crap out of me. If he makes that choice he deserves it if he trips over the crack on the sidewalk.

WRONG! Miranda is NOT read until a suspect is arrested. Prior to that, they can talk all they want.
JakeStarkey said " A suspect has an obligation to identify himself when detained and questioned. Every court in the land will uphold that concept "

Apparently, you cannot read links which prove fact. I don't mean you Jake.

You can talk even after you are arrested. The things is, if I chose not to answer questions, there is not a fucking thing the cops can legally do.

For evidence I present this video. The guy was walking legally down the street and got stopped by a cop. Not only did he not show his ID, he refused to give his name, even when the cop told him he had to. (The cop lied, and bot people in the conversation knew it.) In other words, he refused to answer questions even though he was not under arrest.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMMPV4D6cs0]‪Oceanside open carry‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]

I guess that proves both you and Starkey wrong. I am not surprised that he is wrong, but I am disappointed in him misleading you. There are plenty of courts that will uphold the right of people not to identify themselves when detained by the police.

As little as the cop seemed to know about that gun and as badly as he handled it, I'm REALLY amazed it didn't fire off and kill someone. He kept it aimed right into that line of traffic going by.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

What "errors" did a man who does not speak English, or even think like an adult, make?

Even if the suspect ‘made an error,’ there was no legal justification for LE’s actions.

They spoke Spanish to him and he still didn't answer. Where did you get the idea he can't think like an adult? I didn't read in there that he was retarded.

You need to bear in mind the cops had no idea who he was and since he didn't answer them and hid from them they naturally assumed he was an intruder, as you and I both would have as well had we been one of the police officers.

Believe me, I'm a big civil libertarian and a strong critic of the methods deployed by law enforcement, but they need to be given some reasonable latitude. From what I have read, I don't believe the police were solely at fault here.

Once determined there was no imminent threat to life or property, subsequent LE actions were not justified. There was no cause to pursue the man into the house and force him out of the bathroom, regardless of what he was suspected of doing. The struggle in the living room was completely unnecessary and solely the fault of the police.

WTF? Did this guy go to law school?

I’m sure he did, unfortunate the judge may have based his comment on this ‘exigent circumstance’ nonsense the Court as been captive to for the last 40 years.

The right to remain silent applies after one has been arrested.

Incorrect. In Kentucky v King (2011), once you have announced to the police you are aware of your civil rights, the police may take no further action absent probable cause, including compelling you to speak. During an investigation, prior to possible arrest, one is required only to give his name. (Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, 2004).

Anyone recall any reports of police officers being shot and killed when attempting a traffic stop? Here's a few:

This was not a traffic stop.

Police officers being killed while responding to B&E calls:

Police officers are in harm’s way when they respond to every call, that does not mitigate their responsibility to the Constitution.

Just some illegal beaner running from the cops, nothing new.

Illegal aliens are entitled to criminal due process rights, Plyler v Doe (1984), Boumediene v. Bush (2008).

 

[JakeStarkey]

WRONG! Miranda is NOT read until a suspect is arrested. Prior to that, they can talk all they want.
JakeStarkey said " A suspect has an obligation to identify himself when detained and questioned. Every court in the land will uphold that concept "

Apparently, you cannot read links which prove fact. I don't mean you Jake.

You can talk even after you are arrested. The things is, if I chose not to answer questions, there is not a fucking thing the cops can legally do.

For evidence I present this video. The guy was walking legally down the street and got stopped by a cop. Not only did he not show his ID, he refused to give his name, even when the cop told him he had to. (The cop lied, and bot people in the conversation knew it.) In other words, he refused to answer questions even though he was not under arrest.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMMPV4D6cs0]‪Oceanside open carry‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]

I guess that proves both you and Starkey wrong. I am not surprised that he is wrong, but I am disappointed in him misleading you. There are plenty of courts that will uphold the right of people not to identify themselves when detained by the police.

As little as the cop seemed to know about that gun and as badly as he handled it, I'm REALLY amazed it didn't fire off and kill someone. He kept it aimed right into that line of traffic going by.

You have a staged video? That's it?

 

[Sunshine]

You can talk even after you are arrested. The things is, if I chose not to answer questions, there is not a fucking thing the cops can legally do.

For evidence I present this video. The guy was walking legally down the street and got stopped by a cop. Not only did he not show his ID, he refused to give his name, even when the cop told him he had to. (The cop lied, and bot people in the conversation knew it.) In other words, he refused to answer questions even though he was not under arrest.

‪Oceanside open carry‬‏ - YouTube

I guess that proves both you and Starkey wrong. I am not surprised that he is wrong, but I am disappointed in him misleading you. There are plenty of courts that will uphold the right of people not to identify themselves when detained by the police.

As little as the cop seemed to know about that gun and as badly as he handled it, I'm REALLY amazed it didn't fire off and kill someone. He kept it aimed right into that line of traffic going by.

You have a staged video? That's it?

You talkin' to me? I didn't post it.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Not you, sunshine. You are responsible on these subjects, even if I disagree with you at times.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You can talk even after you are arrested. The things is, if I chose not to answer questions, there is not a fucking thing the cops can legally do.

For evidence I present this video. The guy was walking legally down the street and got stopped by a cop. Not only did he not show his ID, he refused to give his name, even when the cop told him he had to. (The cop lied, and bot people in the conversation knew it.) In other words, he refused to answer questions even though he was not under arrest.

‪Oceanside open carry‬‏ - YouTube

I guess that proves both you and Starkey wrong. I am not surprised that he is wrong, but I am disappointed in him misleading you. There are plenty of courts that will uphold the right of people not to identify themselves when detained by the police.

As little as the cop seemed to know about that gun and as badly as he handled it, I'm REALLY amazed it didn't fire off and kill someone. He kept it aimed right into that line of traffic going by.

You have a staged video? That's it?

Staged video?

I should posrep you for making me laugh.