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Genetics goes well beyond color - aside from the hearing and vision issues of breeding two merles (which is involved in Harliquin color genetics) Danes, being both a popular breed and giant breed, can inherit a number of problems - structural problems, cardiac problems, thyroid, a tendancy to cancer - according to this source, they are susceptable to 68 different inherited diseases...and temperment issues. Some of those problems are polygenetic or the mode of inheritence is unknown. So...Sangha may or may not be right....
I think you could use some explanation about what conjob is referring to
I claimed the conjob does not know enough about canine genetics to breed GD's responsibly. As proof that he does indeed know about GD genetics, conjob stated that he knew not to breed two merles.
As your post shows, there is more to GD genetics than simply knowing not to breed them in this manner. conjobs knowing this one little tidbit of info does not "prove" that he "knows GD genetics"
So I'll ask you, do think conjobs' knowing about this PROVESthat conjob knows enough about genetics to breed GD's responsibly?
There isn't enough information to go on. Like I said - there's a lot more to it then the genetics of color and it's associated problems...so, I can't say...
They likely aren't feral dogs and yes, shelters increasingly screen for aggression but a lot of times, problems don't show up right away or only in certain situations.
Yes, like when they are in a pack.
Dogs, alld dogs, are subject to pack mentality. The most gentle dog will kill if it is not the alpha in a group of dogs, and that group is out of control. And once a dog learns to hunt in a pack it doesn't stop.
That's why I get so infuriated with morons who let their dogs run, saying they're nice family dogs. IT DOESN'T MATTER. Nice family dogs are dangerous when they're joined up by a couple of other nice family dogs who are used to running and chasing things.
I so agree - pack behavior is poorly understood by most people - in fact, it's not to different from mob behavior in humans.
Dogs are social predators. They've evolved/ been bred for thousands of years to accept humans as part of their "packs" - but even with an incomplete toolbox of instincts, they are still predators - even the family Golden.
Sorry bro, I've known some pretty decent pits to, but I would NEVER trust one around a child, especially unattended.
Not saying it's their fault, but they have had a lot of incidents over the years.
On another subject, where did Sangha take off to when I proved him wrong, once again, by proving that I do indeed know my genetics when it comes to Danes?
Genetics goes well beyond color - aside from the hearing and vision issues of breeding two merles (which is involved in Harliquin color genetics) Danes, being both a popular breed and giant breed, can inherit a number of problems - structural problems, cardiac problems, thyroid, a tendancy to cancer - according to this source, they are susceptable to 68 different inherited diseases...and temperment issues. Some of those problems are polygenetic or the mode of inheritence is unknown. So...Sangha may or may not be right....
Right, I understand that, I was just giving a single example of something someone has to be aware of genetic wise when breeding Danes. I wasn't trying to bore the board with an enyclopedia of issues , nor did I claim that I know EVERYTHING, but that's the beauty, I don't have to know everything I have a vet who I consult with who IS an expert. I also have resources at my disposal such as books, websites, etc etc.
On another subject, where did Sangha take off to when I proved him wrong, once again, by proving that I do indeed know my genetics when it comes to Danes?
ps - once again conjob is demonstrating his ignorance about leaving children with PB's when most PB attacks take place outside, with the dog not on a leash, and there are other dogs involved
Meanwhile, when GD's attack, it's usually in the home and often a child that is attacked.
I think you could use some explanation about what conjob is referring to
I claimed the conjob does not know enough about canine genetics to breed GD's responsibly. As proof that he does indeed know about GD genetics, conjob stated that he knew not to breed two merles.
As your post shows, there is more to GD genetics than simply knowing not to breed them in this manner. conjobs knowing this one little tidbit of info does not "prove" that he "knows GD genetics"
So I'll ask you, do think conjobs' knowing about this PROVESthat conjob knows enough about genetics to breed GD's responsibly?
There isn't enough information to go on. Like I said - there's a lot more to it then the genetics of color and it's associated problems...so, I can't say...
But, I would ask Conhog if his dogs are OFA'd for hips and elbows and cardiac and possibly thyroid before being bred.
My male and my female both endure a full battery of medical exams before breeding. They are pets, not money machines. if i for one moment thought that my female wasn't up to the task of carrying a litter of puppies I would never risk it, so the answer to your question is yes.
I especially worry about my males joints since he is so tall. But he gets a clean bill of health from the vet every year. I also of course as a responsible poet owner keep their shots up to date.
Genetics goes well beyond color - aside from the hearing and vision issues of breeding two merles (which is involved in Harliquin color genetics) Danes, being both a popular breed and giant breed, can inherit a number of problems - structural problems, cardiac problems, thyroid, a tendancy to cancer - according to this source, they are susceptable to 68 different inherited diseases...and temperment issues. Some of those problems are polygenetic or the mode of inheritence is unknown. So...Sangha may or may not be right....
Right, I understand that, I was just giving a single example of something someone has to be aware of genetic wise when breeding Danes. I wasn't trying to bore the board with an enyclopedia of issues , nor did I claim that I know EVERYTHING, but that's the beauty, I don't have to know everything I have a vet who I consult with who IS an expert. I also have resources at my disposal such as books, websites, etc etc.
ANd conjob is lying again. Now, he's claiming it was merely an example, but earlier he called it "proof" that he knew genetics. Here's the quote
On another subject, where did Sangha take off to when I proved him wrong, once again, by proving that I do indeed know my genetics when it comes to Danes?
If conjobs little tidbit about harlequinns was not the proof, then where is the proof that conjob claims he posted?
There isn't enough information to go on. Like I said - there's a lot more to it then the genetics of color and it's associated problems...so, I can't say...
But, I would ask Conhog if his dogs are OFA'd for hips and elbows and cardiac and possibly thyroid before being bred.
My male and my female both endure a full battery of medical exams before breeding. They are pets, not money machines. if i for one moment thought that my female wasn't up to the task of carrying a litter of puppies I would never risk it, so the answer to your question is yes.
I especially worry about my males joints since he is so tall. But he gets a clean bill of health from the vet every year. I also of course as a responsible poet owner keep their shots up to date.
1) Breeding a dog every year puts a burden on the health of the mother and puts her life and health at risk
2) You're breeding a dog with a genetically based abnormality (excessive size) that you worry may cause health problems. Very responsible
Right, I understand that, I was just giving a single example of something someone has to be aware of genetic wise when breeding Danes. I wasn't trying to bore the board with an enyclopedia of issues , nor did I claim that I know EVERYTHING, but that's the beauty, I don't have to know everything I have a vet who I consult with who IS an expert. I also have resources at my disposal such as books, websites, etc etc.
ANd conjob is lying again. Now, he's claiming it was merely an example, but earlier he called it "proof" that he knew genetics. Here's the quote
On another subject, where did Sangha take off to when I proved him wrong, once again, by proving that I do indeed know my genetics when it comes to Danes?
If conjobs little tidbit about harlequinns was not the proof, then where is the proof that conjob claims he posted?
Seriously, shut up. I couldn't possibly be the only one who is sick of your fucking bullshit. You don't know how to debate so you just constantly acccuse others of lying etc etc. and it would be one thing if it was JUST me, I would think maybe I'm crazy, but off the top of my head and can think of 3 other posters who you do the same exact fuckiing thing with, only to a lesser degree.
Another thread in which you can claim a "win" because I'm jumping out so I don't have to deal with your childishness.
Coyote. you seem like you REALLY know dogs, and I would love to discuss them further with you, but well, you understand......................
Go ahead Sangha, claim the victory, enjoy it as you're a loser in life so you need all the small victories you can get.
OFA of hips and elbows is standard for an ethical breeder. I know. I used to raise German Shepherds where hip dysplasia is rampant.
In my years breeding, one litter a year, sometimes none at all. All my dogs were OFA goods. I had a female who was an OFA excellent once but her temprement was on the shy side and she became a pet period. Greatest couch potatoe in the world. Sweet dog but not one I would consider for breeding.
As for genetics, it all depends on what your breeding for.
With the GSD if your breeding for the show ring your going to try to go by the standard. Its a stupid standard in my book but thats what anyone breeding for show dogs is going to use when selecting for breeding said dog. The closer to the standard the better. (over angulated bs in my book)
If your breeding for security, military and police dogs you are looking for a bigger dog with more bone and intelligence and trainability with a four square look to them. No overangulation at all. Believe me, a working GSD would never get to first base in the show ring. Thank God.
I believe its the same for all sport, herding and working breeds. The Field English Pointer isn't going to look much like the fancy show ring dog.
Is that genetics?? Or just breeding for what your like and what fits into your program??
ps - once again conjob is demonstrating his ignorance about leaving children with PB's when most PB attacks take place outside, with the dog not on a leash, and there are other dogs involved
Meanwhile, when GD's attack, it's usually in the home and often a child that is attacked.
Actually....Sangha...you are being just as ignorant.
Most dog attacks occur in the family home, with the family pet - and that includes Pitbulls.
The majority of dog attacks (61%) happen at home or in a familiar place. When a child less than 4 years old is the victim, the family dog was the attacker half the time (47%), and the attack almost always happened in the family home (90%). There is no differentiation among breed and where the attack occurs so where do you get your information?
ps - once again conjob is demonstrating his ignorance about leaving children with PB's when most PB attacks take place outside, with the dog not on a leash, and there are other dogs involved
Meanwhile, when GD's attack, it's usually in the home and often a child that is attacked.
Actually....Sangha...you are being just as ignorant.
Most dog attacks occur in the family home, with the family pet - and that includes Pitbulls.
The majority of dog attacks (61%) happen at home or in a familiar place. When a child less than 4 years old is the victim, the family dog was the attacker half the time (47%), and the attack almost always happened in the family home (90%). There is no differentiation among breed and where the attack occurs so where do you get your information?
Your link does not say that the majrity of PB attacks are in the home.
I think you could use some explanation about what conjob is referring to
I claimed the conjob does not know enough about canine genetics to breed GD's responsibly. As proof that he does indeed know about GD genetics, conjob stated that he knew not to breed two merles.
As your post shows, there is more to GD genetics than simply knowing not to breed them in this manner. conjobs knowing this one little tidbit of info does not "prove" that he "knows GD genetics"
So I'll ask you, do think conjobs' knowing about this PROVESthat conjob knows enough about genetics to breed GD's responsibly?
There isn't enough information to go on. Like I said - there's a lot more to it then the genetics of color and it's associated problems...so, I can't say...
No, it isn't enough info to go on, but that doesn't stop conjob from lying and saying that he "proved" he knew genetics because he knew that one tidbit. He lied to you when he said he had proven his knowledge to me.
And that is my point. Anyone who thinks his little tidbit proves anything is someone who doesn't know much about genetics. Therefore, conjob does not know enough about genetics to breed GD's responsibly
My male and my female both endure a full battery of medical exams before breeding. They are pets, not money machines. if i for one moment thought that my female wasn't up to the task of carrying a litter of puppies I would never risk it, so the answer to your question is yes.
I especially worry about my males joints since he is so tall. But he gets a clean bill of health from the vet every year. I also of course as a responsible poet owner keep their shots up to date.
1) Breeding a dog every year puts a burden on the health of the mother and puts her life and health at risk
2) You're breeding a dog with a genetically based abnormality (excessive size) that you worry may cause health problems. Very responsible
Points to consider in human breeding as well?
ps - once again conjob is demonstrating his ignorance about leaving children with PB's when most PB attacks take place outside, with the dog not on a leash, and there are other dogs involved
Meanwhile, when GD's attack, it's usually in the home and often a child that is attacked.
Actually....Sangha...you are being just as ignorant.
Most dog attacks occur in the family home, with the family pet - and that includes Pitbulls.
The majority of dog attacks (61%) happen at home or in a familiar place. When a child less than 4 years old is the victim, the family dog was the attacker half the time (47%), and the attack almost always happened in the family home (90%). There is no differentiation among breed and where the attack occurs so where do you get your information?
Your link does not say that the majrity of PB attacks are in the home.
1) Breeding a dog every year puts a burden on the health of the mother and puts her life and health at risk
2) You're breeding a dog with a genetically based abnormality (excessive size) that you worry may cause health problems. Very responsible
Points to consider in human breeding as well?
True...but then....we wouldn't have any candidates for the Darwin Award anymore.....
Points to consider in human breeding as well?
True...but then....we wouldn't have any candidates for the Darwin Award anymore.....
I wouldn't worry about that as long as conjob is breeding......and I'm not talking about breeding dogs
True...but then....we wouldn't have any candidates for the Darwin Award anymore.....
I wouldn't worry about that as long as conjob is breeding......and I'm not talking about breeding dogs
so.....like....what's this obsession with Conhog?
Still don't think I would consider him a puppy miller. Millers have multiple females that they breed every time they come in season. This guy has one male, one female that he breeds once a year.
He only breeds one pair because that's what fits his lifestyle.
If he truly cared about his dogs, he would get them spayed and neutered. Not doing this puts his dogs at risk of coming down with some awful, and fatal, conditions. It also would eliminate the burden that pregnancy puts on the female. Fixing the dogs also eliminates the possibility, no matter how small, of accidently causing another litter (ie his female gets impregnated by a loose dog, or his male impregantes a different female)
Let me address a few things.
First, to the person who said I've had 8 adults that I've sold? HUH? I've never sold an adult animal. You do understand that being 39 y/o I've had a few dogs right, they die or whatever over time, so I get new ones. I had my first Great Dane when I was like 5. although actually that would be my parents dog obviously.
Now on to Sangha, who doesn't really care about dogs, just an excuse to pick a fight with me again.
You have zero credible evidence that shows that not spading and or neutering my adult Danes in unhealthy. In fact quite the opposite, there is credible evidence to suggest that having puppies is healthy for a female until age 5, mine is 4. At age 5 she will be spade. It will only make sense to also get the male neutered at that time as well.
As for your concerns that they either the male may get another female pregnant or the female may get pregnant by another male. I live on a farm, my nearest neighbor is 5 miles away, AND my Danes are confined to their 2 acre yard which is guarded by an 8' fence, when their not in the house of course. The chances of said pregnancy happening are nil.
There is a such thing as responsible breeding and is necessary if we want to keep this beautiful breed around, which I most certainly do.
He only breeds one pair because that's what fits his lifestyle.
If he truly cared about his dogs, he would get them spayed and neutered. Not doing this puts his dogs at risk of coming down with some awful, and fatal, conditions. It also would eliminate the burden that pregnancy puts on the female. Fixing the dogs also eliminates the possibility, no matter how small, of accidently causing another litter (ie his female gets impregnated by a loose dog, or his male impregantes a different female)
Let me address a few things.
First, to the person who said I've had 8 adults that I've sold? HUH? I've never sold an adult animal. You do understand that being 39 y/o I've had a few dogs right, they die or whatever over time, so I get new ones. I had my first Great Dane when I was like 5. although actually that would be my parents dog obviously.
Now on to Sangha, who doesn't really care about dogs, just an excuse to pick a fight with me again.
You have zero credible evidence that shows that not spading and or neutering my adult Danes in unhealthy. In fact quite the opposite, there is credible evidence to suggest that having puppies is healthy for a female until age 5, mine is 4. At age 5 she will be spade. It will only make sense to also get the male neutered at that time as well.
As for your concerns that they either the male may get another female pregnant or the female may get pregnant by another male. I live on a farm, my nearest neighbor is 5 miles away, AND my Danes are confined to their 2 acre yard which is guarded by an 8' fence, when their not in the house of course. The chances of said pregnancy happening are nil.
There is a such thing as responsible breeding and is necessary if we want to keep this beautiful breed around, which I most certainly do.
I stand corrected. Indeed, you did not say you sold the adults. I misread. My bad.
