Man gunned down in broad daylight.....in gun free Britain...

[JakeStarkey]

OK, you said half (although, yes, they do count), so we can go to 4 or 5 < thousand.

 

[2aguy]

Bulldog keeps tripping up 2aguy with his own words.

Gun free UK is far safer than the USA, has been forever.

Nothing has changed.

No it's not

The UK has three times as much crime per capita as the US
Twice as many assaults and twice as many rapes per capital than the US

We are talking about gun murder and death in the UK and the USA.

Keep up.

4 or5 < thousands

No....you are focusing on murder because you have to hide the failure of British gun control....British criminals do not commit murder with their guns....as their gun murder rates have always been low, before they banned guns and after they banned guns...

What you have to hide is the fact that British criminals are using guns more and more after they banned and confiscated guns.....which shows that your gun control laws do not keep guns away from criminals...and the increased gun crime, knife crime and violent crime over all show that your gun control policies allow innocent men, women and children to be brutalized by criminals on a daily basis...

 

[Skull Pilot]

If you want to copy them you better change our criminals, and to it fast....their society can no longer civilize their young males.......and the violence is going through the roof...

Calm down. Take a breath. Now, try to make a sane statement that makes sense. You're getting a little flakey.

Yes....you still have nothing, and you can't answer the basic question....

Explain this......

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Then, explain how the gun accidental death rate also went down....

Leading Causes of Death | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2015...489

2014.....486
2013 ..... 505
2012 ..... 548
2011 ..... 591
2010 ..... 606
2009 ..... 554
2008 ..... 592
2007..... 613
2006..... 642
2005 ..... 789
2004 ..... 649
2003 ..... 730
2002 ..... 762
2001 ..... 802
2000 ..... 776
1999 ..... 824

Again. I don't have to explain anything. The numbers speak for themselves. We kill thousands. They kill a handfull. Less is better.

The murder rate has nothing to do with gun laws

The murder rate in the UK has been lower than the US as far back as I can look

It has nothing to do with their gun laws as I have told you the murder rate of the UK is higher than it was in the 1950's they started passing their gun laws in the 60's.

If gun laws reduce murder rates as you claim then why is the murder rate higher than it was before all the UK gun laws were passed?

Can you name one thing that hasn't increased since 1950? Especially with 10 million more people.

You said gun laws reduce the murder rate I have shown you that they don't

BTW the murder rate has nothing to do with the size of the population since it is expressed in murders per 100,000

So even as the population rises the rate should be lower that it was before all those UK gun laws were passed and it isn't because gun laws do not reduce the murder rate

 

[Skull Pilot]

OK, you said half (although, yes, they do count), so we can go to 4 or 5 < thousand.

Suicide isn't a crime it's a choice

 

[JakeStarkey]

2aguy's argument has failed, whether gun murder or other violence. The %s in UK mean nothing if it is 4 or 6 or 11 per thousand.

He does not understand the correlation of numbers. He never has overcome this error.

And Skull has not even qualified to enter the discussion seriously.

 

[Skull Pilot]

4 or 5 death increase in UK compare to 30000 thousand in the US.

2aguy always gets frustrated because he cannot get around these numbers with his NRA talking points.

Suicides don't count

They do for the dead person's family.

Irrelevant

 

[2aguy]

If you want to copy them you better change our criminals, and to it fast....their society can no longer civilize their young males.......and the violence is going through the roof...

Calm down. Take a breath. Now, try to make a sane statement that makes sense. You're getting a little flakey.

Yes....you still have nothing, and you can't answer the basic question....

Explain this......

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Then, explain how the gun accidental death rate also went down....

Leading Causes of Death | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2015...489

2014.....486
2013 ..... 505
2012 ..... 548
2011 ..... 591
2010 ..... 606
2009 ..... 554
2008 ..... 592
2007..... 613
2006..... 642
2005 ..... 789
2004 ..... 649
2003 ..... 730
2002 ..... 762
2001 ..... 802
2000 ..... 776
1999 ..... 824

Again. I don't have to explain anything. The numbers speak for themselves. We kill thousands. They kill a handfull. Less is better.

The murder rate has nothing to do with gun laws

The murder rate in the UK has been lower than the US as far back as I can look

It has nothing to do with their gun laws as I have told you the murder rate of the UK is higher than it was in the 1950's they started passing their gun laws in the 60's.

If gun laws reduce murder rates as you claim then why is the murder rate higher than it was before all the UK gun laws were passed?

Can you name one thing that hasn't increased since 1950? Especially with 10 million more people.

Can you name one thing that hasn't increased since 1950? Especially with 10 million more people

I can name 3 things.....


Gun murder in the U.S.....it is down 49% since the 1990s..... gun crime in the U.S....it is down 75% since the 1990s..... violent crime in the U.S. is down 72% since the 1990s....

And those decreases happened as more Americans own and carry guns.... a lot more Americans......

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

 

[BULLDOG]

Calm down. Take a breath. Now, try to make a sane statement that makes sense. You're getting a little flakey.

Yes....you still have nothing, and you can't answer the basic question....

Explain this......

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Then, explain how the gun accidental death rate also went down....

Leading Causes of Death | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2015...489

2014.....486
2013 ..... 505
2012 ..... 548
2011 ..... 591
2010 ..... 606
2009 ..... 554
2008 ..... 592
2007..... 613
2006..... 642
2005 ..... 789
2004 ..... 649
2003 ..... 730
2002 ..... 762
2001 ..... 802
2000 ..... 776
1999 ..... 824

Again. I don't have to explain anything. The numbers speak for themselves. We kill thousands. They kill a handfull. Less is better.

The murder rate has nothing to do with gun laws

The murder rate in the UK has been lower than the US as far back as I can look

It has nothing to do with their gun laws as I have told you the murder rate of the UK is higher than it was in the 1950's they started passing their gun laws in the 60's.

If gun laws reduce murder rates as you claim then why is the murder rate higher than it was before all the UK gun laws were passed?

Can you name one thing that hasn't increased since 1950? Especially with 10 million more people.

You said gun laws reduce the murder rate I have shown you that they don't

BTW the murder rate has nothing to do with the size of the population since it is expressed in murders per 100,000

So even as the population rises the rate should be lower that it was before all those UK gun laws were passed and it isn't because gun laws do not reduce the murder rate

Keep trying. I suggest you get someone to help you with your arithmetic before you post any more dumb stuff.

 

[BULLDOG]

4 or 5 death increase in UK compare to 30000 thousand in the US.

2aguy always gets frustrated because he cannot get around these numbers with his NRA talking points.

Suicides don't count

They do for the dead person's family.

Irrelevant

Perhaps to a gun nut.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Skull and 2aguy simply do not understand numbers.

 

[2aguy]

2aguy's argument has failed, whether gun murder or other violence. The %s in UK mean nothing if it is 4 or 6 or 11 per thousand.

He does not understand the correlation of numbers. He never has overcome this error.

And Skull has not even qualified to enter the discussion seriously.

They banned guns in Britain.... their gun crime rates have gone up, not down, their violent crime rates are through the roof, you can't explain it......so you hide the truth....

You have to hide this.....

Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade | Daily Mail Online

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .




========



Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

=========



Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

Top trauma surgeon reveals shocking extent of London’s gun crime

A leading trauma surgeon has told how the number of patients treated for gunshot injuries at a major London hospital has doubled in the last five years.

----

He said the hospital’s major trauma centre had seen a bigger rise in gunshot injuries compared to knife wounds and that the average age of victims was getting younger.

-----

Last year, gun crime offences in London increased for a third year running and by 42 per cent, from 1,793 offences in 2015/16 to 2,544 offences in 2016/17. Police have seized 635 guns off the streets so far this year.

Dr Griffiths, who also teaches medical students, said: “Our numbers of victims of gun injury have doubled [since 2012]. Gunshot injuries represent about 2.5 per cent of our penetrating trauma.

-----

Dr Griffiths said the average age of gun crime victims needing treatment at the hospital had decreased from 25 to the mid to late teens since 2012.

He added that medics at the Barts Health hospital’s major trauma centre in Whitechapel had seen a bigger rise in patients with gun injuries rather than knife wounds and that most were caused by pistols or shotguns.

Met Police commander Jim Stokley, who was also invited to speak at the meeting, said that handguns and shotguns were the weapons of choice and that 46 per cent of London’s gun crime discharges were gang-related.

He said: “We believe that a lot of it is associated with the drugs trade, and by that I mean people dealing drugs at street level and disagreements between different gangs.”

Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest

But analysis of the figures force by force, showed the full extent of the problem, with only one constabulary, Nottinghamshire, recording a reduction in violent offences.

The vast majority of police forces actually witnessed double digit rises in violent crime, with Northumbria posting a 95 per cent increase year on year.

Of the other forces, Durham Police recorded a 73 per cent rise; West Yorkshire was up 48 per cent; Avon and Somerset 45 per cent; Dorset 39 per cent and Warwickshire 37 per cent.

Elsewhere Humberside, South Yorkshire, Staffordshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Wiltshire and Dyfed Powys all saw violence rise by more than a quarter year on year.




-------

 

[Skull Pilot]

Yes....you still have nothing, and you can't answer the basic question....

Explain this......

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Then, explain how the gun accidental death rate also went down....

Leading Causes of Death | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2015...489

2014.....486
2013 ..... 505
2012 ..... 548
2011 ..... 591
2010 ..... 606
2009 ..... 554
2008 ..... 592
2007..... 613
2006..... 642
2005 ..... 789
2004 ..... 649
2003 ..... 730
2002 ..... 762
2001 ..... 802
2000 ..... 776
1999 ..... 824

Again. I don't have to explain anything. The numbers speak for themselves. We kill thousands. They kill a handfull. Less is better.

The murder rate has nothing to do with gun laws

The murder rate in the UK has been lower than the US as far back as I can look

It has nothing to do with their gun laws as I have told you the murder rate of the UK is higher than it was in the 1950's they started passing their gun laws in the 60's.

If gun laws reduce murder rates as you claim then why is the murder rate higher than it was before all the UK gun laws were passed?

Can you name one thing that hasn't increased since 1950? Especially with 10 million more people.

You said gun laws reduce the murder rate I have shown you that they don't

BTW the murder rate has nothing to do with the size of the population since it is expressed in murders per 100,000

So even as the population rises the rate should be lower that it was before all those UK gun laws were passed and it isn't because gun laws do not reduce the murder rate

Keep trying. I suggest you get someone to help you with your arithmetic before you post any more dumb stuff.

It's obvious you don't understand ratios

you do realize that as a population increases the absolute number of murders can rise even if the murder rate remains constant don't you?

 

[BULLDOG]

Calm down. Take a breath. Now, try to make a sane statement that makes sense. You're getting a little flakey.

Yes....you still have nothing, and you can't answer the basic question....

Explain this......

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Then, explain how the gun accidental death rate also went down....

Leading Causes of Death | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2015...489

2014.....486
2013 ..... 505
2012 ..... 548
2011 ..... 591
2010 ..... 606
2009 ..... 554
2008 ..... 592
2007..... 613
2006..... 642
2005 ..... 789
2004 ..... 649
2003 ..... 730
2002 ..... 762
2001 ..... 802
2000 ..... 776
1999 ..... 824

Again. I don't have to explain anything. The numbers speak for themselves. We kill thousands. They kill a handfull. Less is better.

The murder rate has nothing to do with gun laws

The murder rate in the UK has been lower than the US as far back as I can look

It has nothing to do with their gun laws as I have told you the murder rate of the UK is higher than it was in the 1950's they started passing their gun laws in the 60's.

If gun laws reduce murder rates as you claim then why is the murder rate higher than it was before all the UK gun laws were passed?

Can you name one thing that hasn't increased since 1950? Especially with 10 million more people.

Can you name one thing that hasn't increased since 1950? Especially with 10 million more people

I can name 3 things.....


Gun murder in the U.S.....it is down 49% since the 1990s..... gun crime in the U.S....it is down 75% since the 1990s..... violent crime in the U.S. is down 72% since the 1990s....

And those decreases happened as more Americans own and carry guns.... a lot more Americans......

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

So you're finally done whining about England. Good for you.

 

[BULLDOG]

Skull and 2aguy simply do not understand numbers.

Sad, isn't it?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Skull and 2aguy simply do not understand numbers.

You don't understand that the murder rate of the UK did not decrease after they passed all their gun laws starting in the 60's

 

[Skull Pilot]

4 or 5 death increase in UK compare to 30000 thousand in the US.

2aguy always gets frustrated because he cannot get around these numbers with his NRA talking points.

Suicides don't count

They do for the dead person's family.

Irrelevant

Perhaps to a gun nut.

Suicide has nothing to do with guns

 

[BULLDOG]

Again. I don't have to explain anything. The numbers speak for themselves. We kill thousands. They kill a handfull. Less is better.

The murder rate has nothing to do with gun laws

The murder rate in the UK has been lower than the US as far back as I can look

It has nothing to do with their gun laws as I have told you the murder rate of the UK is higher than it was in the 1950's they started passing their gun laws in the 60's.

If gun laws reduce murder rates as you claim then why is the murder rate higher than it was before all the UK gun laws were passed?

Can you name one thing that hasn't increased since 1950? Especially with 10 million more people.

You said gun laws reduce the murder rate I have shown you that they don't

BTW the murder rate has nothing to do with the size of the population since it is expressed in murders per 100,000

So even as the population rises the rate should be lower that it was before all those UK gun laws were passed and it isn't because gun laws do not reduce the murder rate

Keep trying. I suggest you get someone to help you with your arithmetic before you post any more dumb stuff.

It's obvious you don't understand ratios

you do realize that as a population increases the absolute number of murders can rise even if the murder rate remains constant don't you?

That's your argument? The rate didn't go down over the last 45 years? What a silly gun nut.

 

[BULLDOG]

4 or 5 death increase in UK compare to 30000 thousand in the US.

2aguy always gets frustrated because he cannot get around these numbers with his NRA talking points.

Suicides don't count

They do for the dead person's family.

Irrelevant

Perhaps to a gun nut.

Suicide has nothing to do with guns

Then how do you think they get those bullets inside their bodies?

 

[Skull Pilot]

The murder rate has nothing to do with gun laws

The murder rate in the UK has been lower than the US as far back as I can look

It has nothing to do with their gun laws as I have told you the murder rate of the UK is higher than it was in the 1950's they started passing their gun laws in the 60's.

If gun laws reduce murder rates as you claim then why is the murder rate higher than it was before all the UK gun laws were passed?

Can you name one thing that hasn't increased since 1950? Especially with 10 million more people.

You said gun laws reduce the murder rate I have shown you that they don't

BTW the murder rate has nothing to do with the size of the population since it is expressed in murders per 100,000

So even as the population rises the rate should be lower that it was before all those UK gun laws were passed and it isn't because gun laws do not reduce the murder rate

Keep trying. I suggest you get someone to help you with your arithmetic before you post any more dumb stuff.

It's obvious you don't understand ratios

you do realize that as a population increases the absolute number of murders can rise even if the murder rate remains constant don't you?

That's your argument? The rate didn't go down over the last 45 years? What a silly gun nut.

You're the one who is saying gun laws lower the murder rate

You have been proven wrong

 

[Skull Pilot]

Suicides don't count

They do for the dead person's family.

Irrelevant

Perhaps to a gun nut.

Suicide has nothing to do with guns

Then how do you think they get those bullets inside their bodies?

You do know that half of all suicides do not use guns don't you?

You do know that there are literally thousands of ways to kill yourself don't you?

Japan has a far higher suicide rate than we do even with their strict gun laws