Malaysian airliner missing with 239 people on board

[wavingrl]

thick face= bold will do what what he/she believes is best disregards insults and such

i fly and have military experience

ok--and hats off to you. We need 'that kind' so desperately.

I googled could not find out who is currently the Commander of the US Air Force--found out that 9 AF generals had been fired over a nuclear cheating scandal. 'S' happens.

Let the Air Force lead the nation--always heard they are the best. I know I want that kind of 'change'.

air superiority is a must

however all branches of the service are needed

to balance the defense of the country

the rash of forced retirement of commanders

is somewhat of a new thing

The rash of forced retirement is a new thing--yes, it is. Doesn't seem to be a good thing--from my limited POV.

I'm really talking about the 'style'--it always seems that AF personnel--see things clearly. I suppose this is true of many who work in ?'technical' fields. And we need that--they shouldn't concern themselves with politics--just keep on breaking ground in their areas of expertise. If somehow that 'approach' could be employed in politics--that would be great.

Not that I want any more 'defense secrets' revealed but--instead of all the crap offered for my viewing entertainment--I would really love to know more about robotics and how they can develop the equipment to search the bottom of the ocean--whole planet, I suppose.

~~~~~
At least they interviewed Cmdr Matthews --on board the Ocean Shield and in charge of the ?device now searching beneath the surface and maybe the Blue Fin. Fully capable of commanding such a project.

The device being used --towed pinger locator--is so small. I can't believe all the capabilities it must have. I think we only have 2? Maybe that is incorrect. We have 2 P-8's--maybe more towed pinger locators. And now everybody knows that we have them---hope that is not an issue.

 

[HenryBHough]

The forced retirements seem to focus on commanders who believe they pledged themselves to the nation as exemplified by The U.S. Constitution. Those who at least expressed willingness to devote themselves to the personality cult of the Dear & Fearless Leader seem to have been exempted.

Now why might that be?

 

[Statistikhengst]

The forced retirements seem to focus on commanders who believe they pledged themselves to the nation as exemplified by The U.S. Constitution. Those who at least expressed willingness to devote themselves to the personality cult of the Dear & Fearless Leader seem to have been exempted.

Now why might that be?

blah, blah, blah, Obama sucks blah, blah, blah, our dear leader blah, blah, blah....


blah, blah, blah...

 

[wavingrl]

tossing this in--no idea of the credibility of the source.

Possible MH370 black box found beneath Indian Ocean | Mail Online

you have to scroll and scroll and scroll to find this at the bottom of the article. fwiw.

<A new report suggesting that the missing flight MH370 deliberately circled around Indonesian air space after it vanished appears to lend credibility to an earlier claim that the jet was hijacked.


CNN reported that it had been told that the Boeing 777 might have flown around Indonesian air space on the night it vanished in what could have been a deliberate attempt to avoid radar detection.


That new report tends to support an anonymous email received by the Daily Mail last week - from what is believed to be a Malaysian government source - in which it was claimed that the aircraft had been hijacked and the pilots were told to circle around an area 'near Malaysia' while negotiations with the hijackers were carried out.


According to the email received by the Mail the hijackers demanded that a five year jail sentence imposed on Malaysian opposition leader Anwar Ibrahim be lifted - and while negotiations were being carried out the plane was ordered to fly around near Malaysia and Indonesia for five hours.>


some sort of theory--better than the 'pilot went insane'.

~~~
<Although the email cannot be verified and the claimed government source has not been identified, its contents tend to fit in with separate information now received by CNN.

The writer, who corresponded in Chinese, said in the translation that if an agreement was reached for the jail sentence to be lifted, the aircraft would be allowed to land safely.
But if, after five hours no agreement was reached, 'the plane will be destroyed'.
The source said in the email that although the aircraft's main communication system had been closed down, negotiations continued through what the writer said was an 'internal communication channel.'
According to the source, the government took five hours to declare the loss of the plane because that was when the negotiation time ran out and when officials realised the aircraft could not stay in the air any longer.
During those five hours, said the writer, 'the plane was always flying around the Malaysian area.'
The Boeing company said later that the jet would have been able to stay in the air for a few hours more than the five hours referred to in the email.
Although both the CNN report and the email received by the Mail have come from unidentified sources, the claims in both tend to agree on one major point - that MH370 circled around the Malaysian-Indonesian area before, as pings from the bottom of the sea suggest, it finally flew out into the Indian Ocean where it ran out of fuel.

He said that China also reported seeing white objects floating in the sea 55 miles from where the ping was detected.>

 

[wavingrl]

CNN is now 'tentatively' exploring the idea that Indonesia may have been 'embarassed' that it didn't pick up the plane on its radar and doesn't want to admit this.

rolling my eyes.

Plenty more eye rolling for me --I am certain.

~~~

US Navy has experienced underwater salvage teams--so if or when they are needed--they can get busy.

Meanwhile---yes--airlines need to lock the cockpit doors. Increase security. Just do it.

Find some way to keep up with the planes---any organization that regulates air travel needs to be drafting proposals for its members as we speak.

I believe today is the month anniversary of the date that flight 370 took off/disappeared.
A vigil is being held in Beijing--probably in Malaysia, too. A lot to accept--a loved one boards a routine flight--never to be seen or heard from again.

 

[jon_berzerk]

CNN is now 'tentatively' exploring the idea that Indonesia may have been 'embarassed' that it didn't pick up the plane on its radar and doesn't want to admit this.

rolling my eyes.

Plenty more eye rolling for me --I am certain.

~~~

US Navy has experienced underwater salvage teams--so if or when they are needed--they can get busy.

Meanwhile---yes--airlines need to lock the cockpit doors. Increase security. Just do it.

Find some way to keep up with the planes---any organization that regulates air travel needs to be drafting proposals for its members as we speak.

I believe today is the month anniversary of the date that flight 370 took off/disappeared.
A vigil is being held in Beijing--probably in Malaysia, too. A lot to accept--a loved one boards a routine flight--never to be seen or heard from again.

looks like they have re acquired the pings

last night one for over 5 minutes the other 7 minutes

 

[wavingrl]

CNN is now 'tentatively' exploring the idea that Indonesia may have been 'embarassed' that it didn't pick up the plane on its radar and doesn't want to admit this.

rolling my eyes.

Plenty more eye rolling for me --I am certain.

~~~

US Navy has experienced underwater salvage teams--so if or when they are needed--they can get busy.

Meanwhile---yes--airlines need to lock the cockpit doors. Increase security. Just do it.

Find some way to keep up with the planes---any organization that regulates air travel needs to be drafting proposals for its members as we speak.

I believe today is the month anniversary of the date that flight 370 took off/disappeared.
A vigil is being held in Beijing--probably in Malaysia, too. A lot to accept--a loved one boards a routine flight--never to be seen or heard from again.

looks like they have re acquired the pings

last night one for over 5 minutes the other 7 minutes

I wish they would talk about how they might get the bodies out.

I am so glad this seems to be the right place---very impressed with the effort and to learn that such technology is available. I think it is Cmdr Marks--of US Navy 7th fleet--USS BlueRidge---this is their usual duty area--? Indian Ocean--he said--'We do this every day--work with different countries --and do what needs to be done'--poor job of paraphrasing--but glad to know the US Navy is 'out there'--must be a challenging assignment--guess they like that sort of challenge.

I wish I was part of the team looking for the plane--sick of hearing about it--if CNN thinks they have done a great job--what can be said? They have managed to find those with expertise--I'll say that for them. The CNN 'focus' is out of whack---jmo.

Go Blue Fin 21 and then they will send an unmanned submarine down--beyond 15,000 feet. Amazing. Surprised there isn't more interest in this. Nothing to 'hate'--guess that is what makes a thread popular---so tired of that, myself.

 

[wavingrl]

Latest press conference update:

- They heard pings twice more today, for a total of four times (5 if you count the Chinese report)
- They have analyzed the pings and determined that they are definitely coming from a man-made object and are consistent with the black boxes on MH370
- They have greatly reduced the search area after today's pings, believe they will find the plane within a matter of days
- Because the ocean floor in the area is a thick layer of silt, it is possible that MH370 is essentially buried under the ocean
- The pings are getting weaker, the batteries are most likely dying
- There are submarines in the area but no country will disclose how deep their subs can search

And--I read elsewhere--we/US have subs in the area--but have to get permission from Turkey to enter the Black Sea. Turkey had better be amenable---haven't heard of their participation in this effort--the least they could do is allow those trying to find this plane/wreckage of--pass through. If not--sanctions for Turkey. No problem.

 

[wavingrl]

<Once investigators on the surface have the wreckage mapped, the ROV will be sent down to recover the black box. Information gleaned from that will tell them what else they need to recover. In the case of TWA Flight 800, which went down off the shore of New York's Long Island in 1996, investigators recovered nearly all of the plane, reconstructing it in a hangar in an effort to determine what caused the crash. In other cases of plane crashes over the ocean, only the black box was recovered, because information contained in it answered the key questions.

"Investigators will recover whatever they feel is necessary, depending on what information they get from the black box," Mearns said. "That information may direct them to pick up a larger or smaller amount of wreckage.&#8221;

The ROV could also be used to recover bodies, he said. In the case of Air France Flight 447, which went down in the Atlantic in 2009 after departing from Brazil for Paris, 154 bodies were recovered during a process that involved robotic submarines and spanned two years. Some 74 bodies were never found.

While most of the work in recovering Flight 370 will be done aboard the Ocean Shield, the land-based component of the investigation will take place at the nearest sufficient port, in Perth, Australia, Mearns said.
>

Not certain that I would be comforted by this as a grieving family member. ?Maybe they will retrieve the bodies and maybe they won't or can't.

The black box(es) are important---the pieces of the plane are important---more important than the bodies of the loved ones--that would be difficult to explain to their families.

Not one word from CNN to date on the possibility of retrieving the bodies. So caring and concerned--someone always mentions during each segment--'This has been very difficult for the families of those on board Flight 370'. That should cover it?

And the drama--'What if, what if, what if???' They have already said they have enough information to narrow the search and continue narrowing the search---if the pingers stop--there are other devices that will be utilized.

Now time will have to be divided with the Stabbing of High School Students in PA---what can be said--a student--suffered some type of psychotic break --we, the public, are now familiar with the possible theories of 'why'. He had issues--no one knew--seemed normal--not bullied--quiet and he snapped.

Yes, he used knives. Where there is a will there is a way. I guess he could have come up with some other plan---just as horrific.

Thankful to be out of education. So many times I was told by the counseling department--'You are overreacting--the child can manage his/her issues and we do not offer such services...' I would request psychological testing---make referrals, document the recurring behaviors--and to no avail. What schools may be doing now --I cannot say--but a shining spotlight needs to go on those who deal with behavioral issues--or don't deal with behavioral issues although certified and paid to do so.

 

[Mr. H.]

Ha, ha, ha, you and me,
Little black box, don't I love thee!

or something like that

 

[CaféAuLait]

<Once investigators on the surface have the wreckage mapped, the ROV will be sent down to recover the black box. Information gleaned from that will tell them what else they need to recover. In the case of TWA Flight 800, which went down off the shore of New York's Long Island in 1996, investigators recovered nearly all of the plane, reconstructing it in a hangar in an effort to determine what caused the crash. In other cases of plane crashes over the ocean, only the black box was recovered, because information contained in it answered the key questions.

"Investigators will recover whatever they feel is necessary, depending on what information they get from the black box," Mearns said. "That information may direct them to pick up a larger or smaller amount of wreckage.”

The ROV could also be used to recover bodies, he said. In the case of Air France Flight 447, which went down in the Atlantic in 2009 after departing from Brazil for Paris, 154 bodies were recovered during a process that involved robotic submarines and spanned two years. Some 74 bodies were never found.

While most of the work in recovering Flight 370 will be done aboard the Ocean Shield, the land-based component of the investigation will take place at the nearest sufficient port, in Perth, Australia, Mearns said.
>

Not certain that I would be comforted by this as a grieving family member. ?Maybe they will retrieve the bodies and maybe they won't or can't.

The black box(es) are important---the pieces of the plane are important---more important than the bodies of the loved ones--that would be difficult to explain to their families.

Not one word from CNN to date on the possibility of retrieving the bodies. So caring and concerned--someone always mentions during each segment--'This has been very difficult for the families of those on board Flight 370'. That should cover it?

And the drama--'What if, what if, what if???' They have already said they have enough information to narrow the search and continue narrowing the search---if the pingers stop--there are other devices that will be utilized.

Now time will have to be divided with the Stabbing of High School Students in PA---what can be said--a student--suffered some type of psychotic break --we, the public, are now familiar with the possible theories of 'why'. He had issues--no one knew--seemed normal--not bullied--quiet and he snapped.

Yes, he used knives. Where there is a will there is a way. I guess he could have come up with some other plan---just as horrific.

Thankful to be out of education. So many times I was told by the counseling department--'You are overreacting--the child can manage his/her issues and we do not offer such services...' I would request psychological testing---make referrals, document the recurring behaviors--and to no avail. What schools may be doing now --I cannot say--but a shining spotlight needs to go on those who deal with behavioral issues--or don't deal with behavioral issues although certified and paid to do so.

I think part of the problem is when mentioning bodies it brings up too many possibilities. Air France body recovery was possible because most of those bodies found were within the body of the plane wreckage. No one really knows how much this Malaysian plane broke up when hitting the water or if it was blown up, or obliterated hitting the water at high speeds.

The big issue I see is the talking heads mention body recovery, then there will be speculation if they were eaten by marine life, if there will be anything left to recover, that sort of thing. I think that may be a little too hard for the families to listen to that talk, I'm pretty sure the talking heads speculated on marine life eating Air France victims and family members became upset. Maybe that is why they are staying away from the subject?

IDK to be honest, but I can see the importance of recovering the back boxes, to see why this happened to assure loved ones wont end up in the same predicament. To see if it was terrorism, or a political statement, or if it was pilot error or plane systems failure.

 

[percysunshine]

If the plane is located so far down--over 2 miles--at the limits of the equipment available to even detect the pings--I wonder how they will be able to retrieve the remains?

Maybe the submarines have such capabilities? Some sort of crane will be able to pull the plane up?

Cmdr Houston said it tooks months to retrieve a Blackhawk helicopter that crashed near Fiji and the location was known.


I assume that 'whatever it takes' will be done. If current equipment isn't sufficient--there is probably someone/company that can design something or adapt some existing equipment with the needed capabilities. 'Precedent setting milestone for aviation'---yes, it sounds like they have pushed the limits.

The company that built the towed pinger locator and the Blue Fin 21 is located in Maryland. Years of research well utilized. Something to be noted.

The depth of the problem - The Washington Post

Very deep.

Some remotely operated vehicles working for oil companies and government research consortia can move around and pick up stuff this deep. It would take a while to prep them and move them in from the other side of the planet.

They need to localize the recorder to a small area first.

 

[jon_berzerk]

CNN is now 'tentatively' exploring the idea that Indonesia may have been 'embarassed' that it didn't pick up the plane on its radar and doesn't want to admit this.

rolling my eyes.

Plenty more eye rolling for me --I am certain.

~~~

US Navy has experienced underwater salvage teams--so if or when they are needed--they can get busy.

Meanwhile---yes--airlines need to lock the cockpit doors. Increase security. Just do it.

Find some way to keep up with the planes---any organization that regulates air travel needs to be drafting proposals for its members as we speak.

I believe today is the month anniversary of the date that flight 370 took off/disappeared.
A vigil is being held in Beijing--probably in Malaysia, too. A lot to accept--a loved one boards a routine flight--never to be seen or heard from again.

looks like they have re acquired the pings

last night one for over 5 minutes the other 7 minutes

I wish they would talk about how they might get the bodies out.

I am so glad this seems to be the right place---very impressed with the effort and to learn that such technology is available. I think it is Cmdr Marks--of US Navy 7th fleet--USS BlueRidge---this is their usual duty area--? Indian Ocean--he said--'We do this every day--work with different countries --and do what needs to be done'--poor job of paraphrasing--but glad to know the US Navy is 'out there'--must be a challenging assignment--guess they like that sort of challenge.

I wish I was part of the team looking for the plane--sick of hearing about it--if CNN thinks they have done a great job--what can be said? They have managed to find those with expertise--I'll say that for them. The CNN 'focus' is out of whack---jmo.

Go Blue Fin 21 and then they will send an unmanned submarine down--beyond 15,000 feet. Amazing. Surprised there isn't more interest in this. Nothing to 'hate'--guess that is what makes a thread popular---so tired of that, myself.

I wish they would talk about how they might get the bodies out.

i am not sure they will

they would probably look for and retrieve the boxes first off

Alvin safely went to the depth of 14,783 ft

the plane if it is there is at 15,000 ft

 

[jon_berzerk]

Latest press conference update:

- They heard pings twice more today, for a total of four times (5 if you count the Chinese report)
- They have analyzed the pings and determined that they are definitely coming from a man-made object and are consistent with the black boxes on MH370
- They have greatly reduced the search area after today's pings, believe they will find the plane within a matter of days
- Because the ocean floor in the area is a thick layer of silt, it is possible that MH370 is essentially buried under the ocean
- The pings are getting weaker, the batteries are most likely dying
- There are submarines in the area but no country will disclose how deep their subs can search

And--I read elsewhere--we/US have subs in the area--but have to get permission from Turkey to enter the Black Sea. Turkey had better be amenable---haven't heard of their participation in this effort--the least they could do is allow those trying to find this plane/wreckage of--pass through. If not--sanctions for Turkey. No problem.

There are submarines in the area but no country will disclose how deep their subs can search

not that deep

 

[CaféAuLait]

[MENTION=42969]jon_berzerk[/MENTION]


Alvin? Is that a remote sub?

 

[jon_berzerk]

[MENTION=42969]jon_berzerk[/MENTION]


Alvin? Is that a remote sub?

yes a manned sub i was just reading that they have been redesigning it

so it can go to 20,000 ft

 

[wavingrl]

looks like they have re acquired the pings

last night one for over 5 minutes the other 7 minutes

I wish they would talk about how they might get the bodies out.

I am so glad this seems to be the right place---very impressed with the effort and to learn that such technology is available. I think it is Cmdr Marks--of US Navy 7th fleet--USS BlueRidge---this is their usual duty area--? Indian Ocean--he said--'We do this every day--work with different countries --and do what needs to be done'--poor job of paraphrasing--but glad to know the US Navy is 'out there'--must be a challenging assignment--guess they like that sort of challenge.

I wish I was part of the team looking for the plane--sick of hearing about it--if CNN thinks they have done a great job--what can be said? They have managed to find those with expertise--I'll say that for them. The CNN 'focus' is out of whack---jmo.

Go Blue Fin 21 and then they will send an unmanned submarine down--beyond 15,000 feet. Amazing. Surprised there isn't more interest in this. Nothing to 'hate'--guess that is what makes a thread popular---so tired of that, myself.

I wish they would talk about how they might get the bodies out.

i am not sure they will

they would probably look for and retrieve the boxes first off

Alvin safely went to the depth of 14,783 ft

the plane if it is there is at 15,000 ft

mmmmhmmm--This doesn't sound good. Providing CNN with weeks of anxiety---'The families---'. Yes--that is going to be a painful reality for the families of the passengers--'Sorry--we can't get your loved one out.'

The HMS Echo is on the way to the search site. It is early--no one CNN to help me interpret this--the fyi came from another news source. What I perceive this to mean--they have done all they can with the 'TPL', as it is now being called. They said when they reached that point they would use the sonar devices. The Echo has a lot of that equipment. Ocean Shield is still going back and forth across the search area. Echo is on the way--the other ships had been told to stay away--so this is 'news'.

Who wants to wager---from ? 7AM--to 12PM---CNN will analyze this one fact. They could possibly drag it out longer. Now interspersing Flight 370 with 'Stabbing at PA High School' and 'The Trial of Oscar Pitorius'----busy day at CNN.

 

[Politico]

You want to bet CNN will analyze unsubstantiated facts to keep from discussing Obammycare? They have been doing it for a month. It's a suckers bet.

 

[Indofred]

If the aircraft is as deep as they think it might be, there is pretty much zero chance of recovering the bodies.
They may well be able to get the black boxes.

Pergelator: Deep Diving Submarines

 

[JimH52]

looks like they have re acquired the pings

last night one for over 5 minutes the other 7 minutes

I wish they would talk about how they might get the bodies out.

I am so glad this seems to be the right place---very impressed with the effort and to learn that such technology is available. I think it is Cmdr Marks--of US Navy 7th fleet--USS BlueRidge---this is their usual duty area--? Indian Ocean--he said--'We do this every day--work with different countries --and do what needs to be done'--poor job of paraphrasing--but glad to know the US Navy is 'out there'--must be a challenging assignment--guess they like that sort of challenge.

I wish I was part of the team looking for the plane--sick of hearing about it--if CNN thinks they have done a great job--what can be said? They have managed to find those with expertise--I'll say that for them. The CNN 'focus' is out of whack---jmo.

Go Blue Fin 21 and then they will send an unmanned submarine down--beyond 15,000 feet. Amazing. Surprised there isn't more interest in this. Nothing to 'hate'--guess that is what makes a thread popular---so tired of that, myself.

I wish they would talk about how they might get the bodies out.

i am not sure they will

they would probably look for and retrieve the boxes first off

Alvin safely went to the depth of 14,783 ft

the plane if it is there is at 15,000 ft

I doubt there will be much left of the bodies. Between crabs and other sea scavengers, there may only be bones left. Just very sad.