Living on minimum wage, 50s to present

[TyrealJenkins]

minumum wage outta be $20 an hour. If they dont wanna pay it then take their shit down to mexico or over to china. But if they do, they wont be able to sell anything here. They are gonna have to figure out a way to be profitable without being too greedy. People gotta make a livable wage, this $7-$8 an hour bullshit aint cutting it. Fuck just give me my $800 month after taxes and $200 in food stamps from the government. Want me to work? Pay me. We aint back in the fields no more.

 

[Noomi]

minumum wage outta be $20 an hour. If they dont wanna pay it then take their shit down to mexico or over to china. But if they do, they wont be able to sell anything here. They are gonna have to figure out a way to be profitable without being too greedy. People gotta make a livable wage, this $7-$8 an hour bullshit aint cutting it. Fuck just give me my $800 month after taxes and $200 in food stamps from the government. Want me to work? Pay me. We aint back in the fields no more.

Australia has a much higher minimum wage but it ain't close to twenty bucks.

People will pay you to work for them, you seem to think you are expected to work for free...

 

[TyrealJenkins]

minumum wage outta be $20 an hour. If they dont wanna pay it then take their shit down to mexico or over to china. But if they do, they wont be able to sell anything here. They are gonna have to figure out a way to be profitable without being too greedy. People gotta make a livable wage, this $7-$8 an hour bullshit aint cutting it. Fuck just give me my $800 month after taxes and $200 in food stamps from the government. Want me to work? Pay me. We aint back in the fields no more.

Australia has a much higher minimum wage but it ain't close to twenty bucks.

People will pay you to work for them, you seem to think you are expected to work for free...

$7-$8/hour is pretty much a slave wage. You cant even pay rent in the hood and have enough to eat on that.

 

[Noomi]

minumum wage outta be $20 an hour. If they dont wanna pay it then take their shit down to mexico or over to china. But if they do, they wont be able to sell anything here. They are gonna have to figure out a way to be profitable without being too greedy. People gotta make a livable wage, this $7-$8 an hour bullshit aint cutting it. Fuck just give me my $800 month after taxes and $200 in food stamps from the government. Want me to work? Pay me. We aint back in the fields no more.

Australia has a much higher minimum wage but it ain't close to twenty bucks.

People will pay you to work for them, you seem to think you are expected to work for free...

$7-$8/hour is pretty much a slave wage. You cant even pay rent in the hood and have enough to eat on that.

I agree. The minimum wage in the US should be no less than ten bucks an hour.

 

[asterism]

No ones arguing for a nanny state. Its as simple as maintaining the basic social construct that work means dignity. That the median wage is able to provide for a family. Someone who spent their life contributing to society will be taken care of in their old age. Someone who needs medical assistance will be given it. This is simple stuff.

None of which means that the minimum wage MUST be a living wage.

Quite the opposite, actually. There is dignity in allowing a student to learn the value of a good hard day's work and then know it takes more than just basic labor to provide a life for himself and his family.

Sadly, that is not possible if EVERYONE has to be paid $10 an hour for each and every hour they are on the clock. The low margin starter jobs just won't be there.

 

[asterism]

minumum wage outta be $20 an hour. If they dont wanna pay it then take their shit down to mexico or over to china. But if they do, they wont be able to sell anything here. They are gonna have to figure out a way to be profitable without being too greedy. People gotta make a livable wage, this $7-$8 an hour bullshit aint cutting it. Fuck just give me my $800 month after taxes and $200 in food stamps from the government. Want me to work? Pay me. We aint back in the fields no more.

Australia has a much higher minimum wage but it ain't close to twenty bucks.

People will pay you to work for them, you seem to think you are expected to work for free...

$7-$8/hour is pretty much a slave wage. You cant even pay rent in the hood and have enough to eat on that.

Then move out of the hood.

Sell the gold in your teeth for a bus ticket or sell your food stamps for the cash you need to get out.

 

[ReallyMeow]

No ones arguing for a nanny state. Its as simple as maintaining the basic social construct that work means dignity. That the median wage is able to provide for a family. Someone who spent their life contributing to society will be taken care of in their old age. Someone who needs medical assistance will be given it. This is simple stuff.

Simple or not, it's not something government should be in charge of.

The govt only gets coerced into stepping in when the free market has failed as catastrophically as it has. reaganomics has been a social experiement and we can objectively state that the wealth does not trickle down; it is not class warfare to put the tax burden back on the rich, it is class warfare to not do so.

None of which means that the minimum wage MUST be a living wage.
Quite the opposite, actually. There is dignity in allowing a student to learn the value of a good hard day's work and then know it takes more than just basic labor to provide a life for himself and his family.
Sadly, that is not possible if EVERYONE has to be paid $10 an hour for each and every hour they are on the clock. The low margin starter jobs just won't be there.

Yes, it must be. You cant just assert that if a person doesnt have a family to mooch off of, they should just summon one from the sky with their mind. No, if you want work done, someone shouldnt have to take an oath of poverty for the privilege of running a cash register for you. That job will do absolutely nothing for them on their resume when they're looking for an actual job, it might even hurt them in the way that listing excel under your job skills hurts you on yours. Working a job does not enrich the educational process, it robs students of effort and attention they should be putting into school work.

Then move out of the hood.

Then what? I dont think you appreciate just how insular America is, even aside from racism, the impulse to only hire people that you know through acquaintances defines the landscape.

 

[HomeInspect]

The title of the thread is funny. Why does anyone assume minimum wages jobs are soemthing you are suppose to "Live on" ? Those jobs are usually high school/college kids / secondary employment/ retired people (Walmart Greeters) etc.. They are not career jobs. Constantly raising minimum wage is just another way of "spreading the wealth" and attempting to keep everyone the same, whether they earned it or not.

 

[Underhill]

The title of the thread is funny. Why does anyone assume minimum wages jobs are soemthing you are suppose to "Live on" ? Those jobs are usually high school/college kids / secondary employment/ retired people (Walmart Greeters) etc.. They are not career jobs.

I think that used to be true. But as we have moved from a manufacturing based society to a service economy, that has changed. Oh eventually you will make above minimum wage if you manage to work your way into a management position. Then you can make a whole $8.50 an hour!

Constantly raising minimum wage is just another way of "spreading the wealth" and attempting to keep everyone the same, whether they earned it or not.

I might agree if we were constantly raising the minimum wage. But we aren't. It should be raised to a reasonable level and pegged to inflation. Then I agree, it shouldn't be touched.

 

[ReallyMeow]

The title of the thread is funny. Why does anyone assume minimum wages jobs are soemthing you are suppose to "Live on" ? Those jobs are usually high school/college kids / secondary employment/ retired people (Walmart Greeters) etc.. They are not career jobs. Constantly raising minimum wage is just another way of "spreading the wealth" and attempting to keep everyone the same, whether they earned it or not.

So in your mind being a college student means making $8 an hour while incurring $8k a semester debts, on top of living expenses? Your vision for America sucks.

accounting for inflation education costs 10x what it did in the 50's, this sentiment of "work your way through college" being a virtue, is a hold over from a time when waiting tables could actually pay your way through college, now people work their way through college in order to gain access to the standard of living people used to be able to get from waiting tables.

 

[PaulS1950]

In my recolection since the 1950s waiting tables has been a minimum wage job. The tips used to more than make up for the low wages but right now the recession is taking its toll on those businesses and the tips for service.

There are also a lot of jobs that pay more than minimum wages but still not enough money or hours to be considered a living wage. It takes slightly more than $11.54 to provide $24000 a year IF you work 40 hours a week. That figure is just above poverty level if there are three people in the household.

In the area from which I just moved the average rent was $1500 per month and that will eat up $18000 a year leaving 25% ($6000) for your other expenses for the year. You can live on it but you are going to have to be frugle and save every penny you can for any emergency that might come up.

 

[HomeInspect]

The title of the thread is funny. Why does anyone assume minimum wages jobs are soemthing you are suppose to "Live on" ? Those jobs are usually high school/college kids / secondary employment/ retired people (Walmart Greeters) etc.. They are not career jobs. Constantly raising minimum wage is just another way of "spreading the wealth" and attempting to keep everyone the same, whether they earned it or not.

So in your mind being a college student means making $8 an hour while incurring $8k a semester debts, on top of living expenses? Your vision for America sucks.

accounting for inflation education costs 10x what it did in the 50's, this sentiment of "work your way through college" being a virtue, is a hold over from a time when waiting tables could actually pay your way through college, now people work their way through college in order to gain access to the standard of living people used to be able to get from waiting tables.

So why not pay college students 250K a year, so they can pay for college.? There is a reason.. and you probably know the answer. No, in my mind, my parents worked their tails off all their lives to educate their children, as I am doing the same. Funny how people think they have a "right" to a higher education, like Jimmy Carter thought everyone had a "right" to own a home. Minimum wage, and unskilled labor jobs should in no way support college bills.

 

[ConHog]

The title of the thread is funny. Why does anyone assume minimum wages jobs are soemthing you are suppose to "Live on" ? Those jobs are usually high school/college kids / secondary employment/ retired people (Walmart Greeters) etc.. They are not career jobs. Constantly raising minimum wage is just another way of "spreading the wealth" and attempting to keep everyone the same, whether they earned it or not.

So in your mind being a college student means making $8 an hour while incurring $8k a semester debts, on top of living expenses? Your vision for America sucks.

accounting for inflation education costs 10x what it did in the 50's, this sentiment of "work your way through college" being a virtue, is a hold over from a time when waiting tables could actually pay your way through college, now people work their way through college in order to gain access to the standard of living people used to be able to get from waiting tables.

Kind of off topic but do away with pel grants and student loans and stop acting like every person should be in college and the demand for and thus the price of attending college drops.

 

[ReallyMeow]

Wow Reductio ad absurdum, I didnt expect that at all in this topic. Oh wait..

There is over a trillion dollars in student debt. Instead of buying homes, investing in businesses, planning for their retirements; this generation is stuck paying off their indentured servitude. And you have the gall to say they're not working hard; why exactly do you hate Americans?

You want Doctors? Lawyers? Skilled technicians? Funny you think you have a right to their services, the free market doesnt care for what you need, you will be priced out.

Lowering demand will not impact the cost of college, de-privatizing it will.

 

[Dragonlady]

Everything is out of whack right now because the government hasn't been doing enough for the working and middle class. Everything they've done has been to the benefit of the wealthy and corporations. That's why the minimum wage hasn't gone up enough to keep up with inflation.

Free market economics demonizes social programs as a distortion to the market, but the reality is that free market economies never benefit the midddle or working class. Without social programs to mitigate the economic crashes, there can be no equal opportunity for all. Minimum wage should be enough for one person to provide the necessities of life. If, not, then the MW needs to be raised.

 

[Underhill]

Most of these issues stem from a few root causes.

The biggest being the lack of manufacturing. A service economy isn't sustainable. And the pay you get in low level service jobs traditionally hasn't been high enough to pay for the needs of a family. That was okay in the time when a person would take a cooks job for a few years in high school and move into a job in manufacturing to support his family.

But today those manufacturing jobs are few and far between. We've lost much of that middle ground that was the middle class. So more people feel compelled to go to college. More people work shit jobs for longer.

Short of new tariffs, this isn't going to change anytime soon so we are stuck dealing with these symptoms because the real problem isn't being addressed by those in charge.

Tariffs would also help offset our deficit problems.

There is a downside. Mainly a nasty trade war with China. But it's going to happen sooner or later or we will become a 2nd tier nation. I'd rather fight that battle now than later.

 

[Dragonlady]

The right-wing points to Greece as an example of what happens when social democracies go back, but they fail to point out the obvious free-market examples of what happens when the free-market works: Brazil and Chile. Both countries have strong free market economies, and considered great countries to do business in, but both have serious problems with poverty. The poor live in filth and disease. The wealthy live in gated communities for their own protection. The is no middle class to speak of.

Is this what Americans want as their future? Social democracies such as Canada, Germany, Great Britain, the Netherlands, and the Scandanavian Countries, all enjoy a standard of living on a par with the US, especially Canada, but without the extreme poverty you see in the US. Schools and universities, as well as health care are all managed by the government, without the corruption we see in the US. As a result, tuition is much lower and health care costs are lower. There are SOME things the government does better than the free market, and education and health care are two of those things. Ownership of public utilities is another.

The Republican leadership has been in thrall to Milton Friedman since Nixon, and where is the US today as a result. A high rate of unemployment, huge corporate profits, struggling middle class, increased poverty, health care spending out of control, and the government running a huge deficit. And yet the Republicans are convinced that if they continue on the path of cutting social spending and taxes, the economy will be fine. It's worked in a number of countries to be sure, but at what cost? Why the middle class of course. Brazil, Argentina, Chile: The rich got richer, and poor got poorer, and the middle class ceased to exist.

Now that people are smartening up to the real costs of Friedman's vision, and they're rejecting it, the right has gone into a frothing frenzy as the Democrats put a halt to the re-distribution of wealth via tax codes that the Republicans put into place under Bush II. This is why Obama is a communist in their eyes. Friedman is an extremist, and he was wrong. His policies may be great for corporations, but they aren't good for the people of the country. So there are the distractions of vilifying the poor, calling leaders who favour a socially democratic approach to economic issues "communists and Marxists", none of which is true.

I used to envy the generosity of spirt of my American friends. Now, too often, I see people suggesting that the poor deserve whatever happens to them, we have to save ourselves. This attitude, will see the US continue to lose ground, economically and socially, and deservedly so. It is not our wealth and our achievements that determine whether others respect us, but rather how we treat the least amongst us.

 

[HomeInspect]

Wow Reductio ad absurdum, I didnt expect that at all in this topic. Oh wait..

There is over a trillion dollars in student debt. Instead of buying homes, investing in businesses, planning for their retirements; this generation is stuck paying off their indentured servitude. And you have the gall to say they're not working hard; why exactly do you hate Americans?

You want Doctors? Lawyers? Skilled technicians? Funny you think you have a right to their services, the free market doesnt care for what you need, you will be priced out.

Lowering demand will not impact the cost of college, de-privatizing it will.

Who said minimun wage people don't work hard? The hardest I ever worked (physically) was my first minimum wage job at 16 years old. Did that job deserve a salary that should support me, or put me through college? No. Those that "hate Americans" would be those that want to over price labor, and take down the companies that provide jobs. Continuing to increase minimum wages will do that.
Going to college isnt a right. Neither is owning a home. Neither is being provided health care.

 

[Dragonlady]

How can you get an education making $7 - $8 an hour when tuition to even a state university can run to $15K per year?

Not everyone is university material. There should be jobs which pay a living wage for a family which do not require university education. Those used to be skilled trades, and manufacturing jobs. In economics, I learned that manufacturing and real estate are the keys to wealth. It's certainly working in China.

Canada's minimum wage is $10.25 cents per hour and companies like Wal-Mart have no problem meeting that cost and making a profit.

 

[ConHog]

Wow Reductio ad absurdum, I didnt expect that at all in this topic. Oh wait..

There is over a trillion dollars in student debt. Instead of buying homes, investing in businesses, planning for their retirements; this generation is stuck paying off their indentured servitude. And you have the gall to say they're not working hard; why exactly do you hate Americans?

You want Doctors? Lawyers? Skilled technicians? Funny you think you have a right to their services, the free market doesnt care for what you need, you will be priced out.

Lowering demand will not impact the cost of college, de-privatizing it will.

Um what? LOL there are literally HUNDREDS of public colleges, or are you suggesting that the Harvards of the world should be forced to go public? Myself, I think both have their place

And quite logically if the demand for colleges went down the price would drop. If College A has 200 students who would like to take Course B they can demand a higher price than they could if only 50 students were interested.

This is such a fact that there is a law that covers it, the law of supply and demand.