Little Crappy Ship

[DrainBamage]

There you go with that Mk I eyeball bullshit! I guess you never served on a ship.

Yeah he does use that phrase a hell of a lot.

 

[I amso IR]

There you go with that Mk I eyeball bullshit! I guess you never served on a ship.

Yeah he does use that phrase a hell of a lot.

Yep! ROTC and all that shit. On ward, on ward, into the jaws of death, marched the 5000, or some such horseshit as that. Not to mention I am pushing a book about Airborne. 505th AIR, Ft Bragg, NC 1957, by God! The year of Sputnik and Russia and the USMC at Ft. Bragg, NC and their humiliation at Ft. Bragg during "Operation All American". Never forget the "Battle of Hay Street".

 

[I amso IR]

Will someone at least say, "something"? Pogo where are you when needed? Matthew, you must be lurking some where close at hand. Hello!!!! Anyone?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

There you go with that Mk I eyeball bullshit! I guess you never served on a ship.

Yeah he does use that phrase a hell of a lot.

Yep! ROTC and all that shit. On ward, on ward, into the jaws of death, marched the 5000, or some such horseshit as that. Not to mention I am pushing a book about Airborne. 505th AIR, Ft Bragg, NC 1957, by God! The year of Sputnik and Russia and the USMC at Ft. Bragg, NC and their humiliation at Ft. Bragg during "Operation All American". Never forget the "Battle of Hay Street".

What ward were you on, and in what hospital?

 

[Mushroom]

[
They carry missiles, a lot of them. Zumwalts will soon have rail guns with a range of 125 miles. Our largest ships ever, the Iowa class, had a range of 25 miles.

Only when originally launched.

When they were returned to service they were outfitted with Harpoon (60+ miles) and Tomahawk (1,500+ miles) missiles to expand that range greatly.

Rail gun, big deal. Great if you want to hit a point target like a bunker, ship, or building. Of little to no use if you are trying to take out area targets in support of troops on the ground.

Oh, and for surface attack the LCS does not have that many missiles. All it has is RAM (21 of them) for anti-air capability, nothing for surface capability at all. The Iowa class on the other hand had 32 Tomahawk missiles plus 16 Harpoon missiles.

And do not hold your breath on it getting ground attack missile capability. The current plan is for hull number 33 to have the capability to carry has 24 Hellfire missiles (with a 5 mile range), but they are not even expecting to build that one for another 10 years at the soonest.

The Zumwalt class will have 80 launch cells, split between Sea Sparrow, Tomahawk, and ASW missiles. But loadout will have to be determined prior to leaving port, which means more than likely only around 20 Tomahawks (Destroyers by definition are defensive ships, so loadout will most likely be primarily in AA-ASW missiles).

 

[I amso IR]

There you go with that Mk I eyeball bullshit! I guess you never served on a ship.

Yeah he does use that phrase a hell of a lot.

Yep! ROTC and all that shit. On ward, on ward, into the jaws of death, marched the 5000, or some such horseshit as that. Not to mention I am pushing a book about Airborne. 505th AIR, Ft Bragg, NC 1957, by God! The year of Sputnik and Russia and the USMC at Ft. Bragg, NC and their humiliation at Ft. Bragg during "Operation All American". Never forget the "Battle of Hay Street".

What ward were you on, and in what hospital?

Adrimirable Rocky. I did my best to humor you. You honestly seemed like a likeable guy who wanted an honest and upfront conversation. I know for a fact that is what I have been seeking. I detest snidery and apologize for giving that opinion or attitude. You see, I believe that outside of the varsity playfield, unity of purpose is our greatest strength. The LCS, in my own opinion is not that boat with which we must all unite. Now you being an "unterwasser" sailor should know that. Forget the ROTC hazing and all that. If I had a nickel for every time someone said, "here doggy" I would be up to my ears in Doggieisms. The Zumwalt navy failed and failed miserably. Sailors with beards are not Popeye in any sense of the word. Popeye loved "Olive Oil" and that was that! Where do we, go from there? How about "Damn the torpedo's and full steam ahead"! How about lets take those cocksuckers out of the picture? How about if you do not like that. you certainly will not be fond of this? Have you even looked to the book I mentioned and if not why not? A group of Airborne types, overly confident of their strengths and they found the errors of their ways and built a lasting reputation. Kinda like a bunch of Navy pukes finding out their strength is in ashcans, not "tincans". Come on Tory, stand up and be counted! You are needed at the end of hostilities, not the beginning. That is why you make the BIG retirement bucks. .

 

[I amso IR]

Speak, Tory, speak! Where are U. For the sake of all which is Holy, SPEAK!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

There you go with that Mk I eyeball bullshit! I guess you never served on a ship.

Yeah he does use that phrase a hell of a lot.

Yep! ROTC and all that shit. On ward, on ward, into the jaws of death, marched the 5000, or some such horseshit as that. Not to mention I am pushing a book about Airborne. 505th AIR, Ft Bragg, NC 1957, by God! The year of Sputnik and Russia and the USMC at Ft. Bragg, NC and their humiliation at Ft. Bragg during "Operation All American". Never forget the "Battle of Hay Street".

What ward were you on, and in what hospital?

Adrimirable Rocky. I did my best to humor you. You honestly seemed like a likeable guy who wanted an honest and upfront conversation. I know for a fact that is what I have been seeking. I detest snidery and apologize for giving that opinion or attitude. You see, I believe that outside of the varsity playfield, unity of purpose is our greatest strength. The LCS, in my own opinion is not that boat with which we must all unite. Now you being an "unterwasser" sailor should know that. Forget the ROTC hazing and all that. If I had a nickel for every time someone said, "here doggy" I would be up to my ears in Doggieisms. The Zumwalt navy failed and failed miserably. Sailors with beards are not Popeye in any sense of the word. Popeye loved "Olive Oil" and that was that! Where do we, go from there? How about "Damn the torpedo's and full steam ahead"! How about lets take those cocksuckers out of the picture? How about if you do not like that. you certainly will not be fond of this? Have you even looked to the book I mentioned and if not why not? A group of Airborne types, overly confident of their strengths and they found the errors of their ways and built a lasting reputation. Kinda like a bunch of Navy pukes finding out their strength is in ashcans, not "tincans". Come on Tory, stand up and be counted! You are needed at the end of hostilities, not the beginning. That is why you make the BIG retirement bucks. .

First, I was not offered the opportunity to retire before I was forced out by the Clinton administrations screw ups.

Second, I have not posted anything in regard to the LCS. My brother is a training officer for the LCS squadron, so I know of the problems.

Third, I served on submarines, surface ships, and aircraft carriers all.

Fourth,my daughter is a US Army Cavalry officer and I have been a volunteer OP4 for the Army for 9 years.

Fifth, have a great Navy day!

 

[I amso IR]

There you go with that Mk I eyeball bullshit! I guess you never served on a ship.

Yeah he does use that phrase a hell of a lot.

Yep! ROTC and all that shit. On ward, on ward, into the jaws of death, marched the 5000, or some such horseshit as that. Not to mention I am pushing a book about Airborne. 505th AIR, Ft Bragg, NC 1957, by God! The year of Sputnik and Russia and the USMC at Ft. Bragg, NC and their humiliation at Ft. Bragg during "Operation All American". Never forget the "Battle of Hay Street".

What ward were you on, and in what hospital?

Adrimirable Rocky. I did my best to humor you. You honestly seemed like a likeable guy who wanted an honest and upfront conversation. I know for a fact that is what I have been seeking. I detest snidery and apologize for giving that opinion or attitude. You see, I believe that outside of the varsity playfield, unity of purpose is our greatest strength. The LCS, in my own opinion is not that boat with which we must all unite. Now you being an "unterwasser" sailor should know that. Forget the ROTC hazing and all that. If I had a nickel for every time someone said, "here doggy" I would be up to my ears in Doggieisms. The Zumwalt navy failed and failed miserably. Sailors with beards are not Popeye in any sense of the word. Popeye loved "Olive Oil" and that was that! Where do we, go from there? How about "Damn the torpedo's and full steam ahead"! How about lets take those cocksuckers out of the picture? How about if you do not like that. you certainly will not be fond of this? Have you even looked to the book I mentioned and if not why not? A group of Airborne types, overly confident of their strengths and they found the errors of their ways and built a lasting reputation. Kinda like a bunch of Navy pukes finding out their strength is in ashcans, not "tincans". Come on Tory, stand up and be counted! You are needed at the end of hostilities, not the beginning. That is why you make the BIG retirement bucks. .

First, I was not offered the opportunity to retire before I was forced out by the Clinton administrations screw ups.

Second, I have not posted anything in regard to the LCS. My brother is a training officer for the LCS squadron, so I know of the problems.

Third, I served on submarines, surface ships, and aircraft carriers all.

Fourth,my daughter is a US Army Cavalry officer and I have been a volunteer OP4 for the Army for 9 years.

Fifth, have a great Navy day!

Thank you "Skipper" Took awhile however we have arrived at an honorable destination. Does your daughter fly the Apache or Blackhawk? Send her my best and the same to you. Again, please read the book, The Brave Ones. You will enjoy and learn some Cav stuff also.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Yeah he does use that phrase a hell of a lot.

Yep! ROTC and all that shit. On ward, on ward, into the jaws of death, marched the 5000, or some such horseshit as that. Not to mention I am pushing a book about Airborne. 505th AIR, Ft Bragg, NC 1957, by God! The year of Sputnik and Russia and the USMC at Ft. Bragg, NC and their humiliation at Ft. Bragg during "Operation All American". Never forget the "Battle of Hay Street".

What ward were you on, and in what hospital?

Adrimirable Rocky. I did my best to humor you. You honestly seemed like a likeable guy who wanted an honest and upfront conversation. I know for a fact that is what I have been seeking. I detest snidery and apologize for giving that opinion or attitude. You see, I believe that outside of the varsity playfield, unity of purpose is our greatest strength. The LCS, in my own opinion is not that boat with which we must all unite. Now you being an "unterwasser" sailor should know that. Forget the ROTC hazing and all that. If I had a nickel for every time someone said, "here doggy" I would be up to my ears in Doggieisms. The Zumwalt navy failed and failed miserably. Sailors with beards are not Popeye in any sense of the word. Popeye loved "Olive Oil" and that was that! Where do we, go from there? How about "Damn the torpedo's and full steam ahead"! How about lets take those cocksuckers out of the picture? How about if you do not like that. you certainly will not be fond of this? Have you even looked to the book I mentioned and if not why not? A group of Airborne types, overly confident of their strengths and they found the errors of their ways and built a lasting reputation. Kinda like a bunch of Navy pukes finding out their strength is in ashcans, not "tincans". Come on Tory, stand up and be counted! You are needed at the end of hostilities, not the beginning. That is why you make the BIG retirement bucks. .

First, I was not offered the opportunity to retire before I was forced out by the Clinton administrations screw ups.

Second, I have not posted anything in regard to the LCS. My brother is a training officer for the LCS squadron, so I know of the problems.

Third, I served on submarines, surface ships, and aircraft carriers all.

Fourth,my daughter is a US Army Cavalry officer and I have been a volunteer OP4 for the Army for 9 years.

Fifth, have a great Navy day!

Thank you "Skipper" Took awhile however we have arrived at an honorable destination. Does your daughter fly the Apache or Blackhawk? Send her my best and the same to you. Again, please read the book, The Brave Ones. You will enjoy and learn some Cav stuff also.

I didn't say "Air Cavalry". She is in the old fashioned Cavalry. The soldiers ride Strykers and she is a Transportation platoon leader, so she handles the trucks with the gear.

 

[I amso IR]

Yep! ROTC and all that shit. On ward, on ward, into the jaws of death, marched the 5000, or some such horseshit as that. Not to mention I am pushing a book about Airborne. 505th AIR, Ft Bragg, NC 1957, by God! The year of Sputnik and Russia and the USMC at Ft. Bragg, NC and their humiliation at Ft. Bragg during "Operation All American". Never forget the "Battle of Hay Street".

What ward were you on, and in what hospital?

Adrimirable Rocky. I did my best to humor you. You honestly seemed like a likeable guy who wanted an honest and upfront conversation. I know for a fact that is what I have been seeking. I detest snidery and apologize for giving that opinion or attitude. You see, I believe that outside of the varsity playfield, unity of purpose is our greatest strength. The LCS, in my own opinion is not that boat with which we must all unite. Now you being an "unterwasser" sailor should know that. Forget the ROTC hazing and all that. If I had a nickel for every time someone said, "here doggy" I would be up to my ears in Doggieisms. The Zumwalt navy failed and failed miserably. Sailors with beards are not Popeye in any sense of the word. Popeye loved "Olive Oil" and that was that! Where do we, go from there? How about "Damn the torpedo's and full steam ahead"! How about lets take those cocksuckers out of the picture? How about if you do not like that. you certainly will not be fond of this? Have you even looked to the book I mentioned and if not why not? A group of Airborne types, overly confident of their strengths and they found the errors of their ways and built a lasting reputation. Kinda like a bunch of Navy pukes finding out their strength is in ashcans, not "tincans". Come on Tory, stand up and be counted! You are needed at the end of hostilities, not the beginning. That is why you make the BIG retirement bucks. .

First, I was not offered the opportunity to retire before I was forced out by the Clinton administrations screw ups.

Second, I have not posted anything in regard to the LCS. My brother is a training officer for the LCS squadron, so I know of the problems.

Third, I served on submarines, surface ships, and aircraft carriers all.

Fourth,my daughter is a US Army Cavalry officer and I have been a volunteer OP4 for the Army for 9 years.

Fifth, have a great Navy day!

Thank you "Skipper" Took awhile however we have arrived at an honorable destination. Does your daughter fly the Apache or Blackhawk? Send her my best and the same to you. Again, please read the book, The Brave Ones. You will enjoy and learn some Cav stuff also.

I didn't say "Air Cavalry". She is in the old fashioned Cavalry. The soldiers ride Strykers and she is a Transportation platoon leader, so she handles the trucks with the gear.

Please allow me to be the aways loved guy I am. My best to your daughter. TC is one of the toughest jobs in the Army. 24/7/365 on the go, no sleep, no hot chow and sleep in the cab with all of your gear. Trucks falling apart, breaking down, overloaded with class V supplies and Charlie eating your lunch. Know it well. Best regards, ISG

 

[westwall]

lives up to its name.....,,.....all it does is break.
LCS Coronado suffers engineering problem on first deploym | NavyTimes
The littoral combat ship Coronado suffered an engineering breakdown on Monday, two months into its maiden deployment and is returning to port under its own power to get repaired. It is the fourth high-profile engineering calamity in a year to strike the beleaguered ship class, which has been dogged by combat survivability concerns amid all the engineering problems. The events have prompted the Navy's top officer to fast-track changes to the program currently being briefed to leadership.

I have to say the whole idea of a LCS seems pretty stupid to me. It has no armor to speak of, has all of this stealth tech but is pretty easy to see with the old Mk I eyeball, has limited close in weapons capability and for a ship that is supposed to be operating close to shore those all seem to be some pretty major weaknesses.

There you go with that Mk I eyeball bullshit! I guess you never served on a ship.

No, I didn't. But I have good eyes. Not that they have to be all that good when the stupid ship is within range of an RPG-7 or simple artillery. The entire idea of the LCS is stupid. If you are operating close in to shore you don't need stealth. You need ARMOR. And lots of it.

 

[westwall]

lives up to its name.....,,.....all it does is break.
LCS Coronado suffers engineering problem on first deploym | NavyTimes
The littoral combat ship Coronado suffered an engineering breakdown on Monday, two months into its maiden deployment and is returning to port under its own power to get repaired. It is the fourth high-profile engineering calamity in a year to strike the beleaguered ship class, which has been dogged by combat survivability concerns amid all the engineering problems. The events have prompted the Navy's top officer to fast-track changes to the program currently being briefed to leadership.

I have to say the whole idea of a LCS seems pretty stupid to me. It has no armor to speak of, has all of this stealth tech but is pretty easy to see with the old Mk I eyeball, has limited close in weapons capability and for a ship that is supposed to be operating close to shore those all seem to be some pretty major weaknesses.

Ships are not built for survivability anymore. One can debate the merits of the decision because both sides have good points. A battleship can take repeated hits, but costs a million a day to operate. One of the biggest sea battles of WW2 was the battle of the Philippines, won by tin can destroyers and a few light carriers on sub duty against Jap battleships and heavy cruisers.

Personally, I like the idea of a lot of fast ships with firepower running around every ocean, even if one hit may sink them.

The Battle Cruiser (eggshell with a hammer) concept was proven a failure at the Battle of Jutland way back in 1916.

 

[westwall]

There you go with that Mk I eyeball bullshit! I guess you never served on a ship.

Yeah he does use that phrase a hell of a lot.

That's because it is still applicable.

 

[DrainBamage]

That's because it is still applicable.

Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.

In modern warfare ships are detected by radar before visual, whether from radar on a ship, aircraft, or shore based. Therefore the ship with the smaller RCS has an advantage, both in detection and track/lock.

Same with aircraft, any modern military radar will pick up another aircraft before it is in visual range. Lower RCS reducing the range of that detection, and limiting any link in the kill chain from track to lock to terminal that relies on RF detection is at an advantage.

 

[Weatherman2020]

lives up to its name.....,,.....all it does is break.
LCS Coronado suffers engineering problem on first deploym | NavyTimes
The littoral combat ship Coronado suffered an engineering breakdown on Monday, two months into its maiden deployment and is returning to port under its own power to get repaired. It is the fourth high-profile engineering calamity in a year to strike the beleaguered ship class, which has been dogged by combat survivability concerns amid all the engineering problems. The events have prompted the Navy's top officer to fast-track changes to the program currently being briefed to leadership.

I have to say the whole idea of a LCS seems pretty stupid to me. It has no armor to speak of, has all of this stealth tech but is pretty easy to see with the old Mk I eyeball, has limited close in weapons capability and for a ship that is supposed to be operating close to shore those all seem to be some pretty major weaknesses.

Ships are not built for survivability anymore. One can debate the merits of the decision because both sides have good points. A battleship can take repeated hits, but costs a million a day to operate. One of the biggest sea battles of WW2 was the battle of the Philippines, won by tin can destroyers and a few light carriers on sub duty against Jap battleships and heavy cruisers.

Personally, I like the idea of a lot of fast ships with firepower running around every ocean, even if one hit may sink them.

The Battle Cruiser (eggshell with a hammer) concept was proven a failure at the Battle of Jutland way back in 1916.

Battle off Samar, 1944
American:
6 escort carriers
3 destroyers
4 destroyer escorts

Japanese:
4 battleships
6 heavy cruisers
2 light cruisers
11 destroyers

Result was a decisive American victory.

 

[westwall]

lives up to its name.....,,.....all it does is break.
LCS Coronado suffers engineering problem on first deploym | NavyTimes
The littoral combat ship Coronado suffered an engineering breakdown on Monday, two months into its maiden deployment and is returning to port under its own power to get repaired. It is the fourth high-profile engineering calamity in a year to strike the beleaguered ship class, which has been dogged by combat survivability concerns amid all the engineering problems. The events have prompted the Navy's top officer to fast-track changes to the program currently being briefed to leadership.

I have to say the whole idea of a LCS seems pretty stupid to me. It has no armor to speak of, has all of this stealth tech but is pretty easy to see with the old Mk I eyeball, has limited close in weapons capability and for a ship that is supposed to be operating close to shore those all seem to be some pretty major weaknesses.

Ships are not built for survivability anymore. One can debate the merits of the decision because both sides have good points. A battleship can take repeated hits, but costs a million a day to operate. One of the biggest sea battles of WW2 was the battle of the Philippines, won by tin can destroyers and a few light carriers on sub duty against Jap battleships and heavy cruisers.

Personally, I like the idea of a lot of fast ships with firepower running around every ocean, even if one hit may sink them.

The Battle Cruiser (eggshell with a hammer) concept was proven a failure at the Battle of Jutland way back in 1916.

Battle off Samar, 1944
American:
6 escort carriers
3 destroyers
4 destroyer escorts

Japanese:
4 battleships
6 heavy cruisers
2 light cruisers
11 destroyers

Result was a decisive American victory.

Ahhhh, if only it were the hulls that counted. I see you are ignoring the 168 aircraft the escort carriers were equipped with. Take away those airplanes and the picture changes dramatically don't you think?

 

[Weatherman2020]

lives up to its name.....,,.....all it does is break.
LCS Coronado suffers engineering problem on first deploym | NavyTimes
The littoral combat ship Coronado suffered an engineering breakdown on Monday, two months into its maiden deployment and is returning to port under its own power to get repaired. It is the fourth high-profile engineering calamity in a year to strike the beleaguered ship class, which has been dogged by combat survivability concerns amid all the engineering problems. The events have prompted the Navy's top officer to fast-track changes to the program currently being briefed to leadership.

I have to say the whole idea of a LCS seems pretty stupid to me. It has no armor to speak of, has all of this stealth tech but is pretty easy to see with the old Mk I eyeball, has limited close in weapons capability and for a ship that is supposed to be operating close to shore those all seem to be some pretty major weaknesses.

Ships are not built for survivability anymore. One can debate the merits of the decision because both sides have good points. A battleship can take repeated hits, but costs a million a day to operate. One of the biggest sea battles of WW2 was the battle of the Philippines, won by tin can destroyers and a few light carriers on sub duty against Jap battleships and heavy cruisers.

Personally, I like the idea of a lot of fast ships with firepower running around every ocean, even if one hit may sink them.

The Battle Cruiser (eggshell with a hammer) concept was proven a failure at the Battle of Jutland way back in 1916.

Battle off Samar, 1944
American:
6 escort carriers
3 destroyers
4 destroyer escorts

Japanese:
4 battleships
6 heavy cruisers
2 light cruisers
11 destroyers

Result was a decisive American victory.

Ahhhh, if only it were the hulls that counted. I see you are ignoring the 168 aircraft the escort carriers were equipped with. Take away those airplanes and the picture changes dramatically don't you think?

Only validates my point further. In 2 weeks in Dec 41 Japan sunk or put out of commission every allied capital ship available in the Pacific using just air power.

So tell me again how a battleship will do in a war in 2020? By 43 they were nothing but floating shore bombardment platforms.

 

[westwall]

That's because it is still applicable.

Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.

In modern warfare ships are detected by radar before visual, whether from radar on a ship, aircraft, or shore based. Therefore the ship with the smaller RCS has an advantage, both in detection and track/lock.

Same with aircraft, any modern military radar will pick up another aircraft before it is in visual range. Lower RCS reducing the range of that detection, and limiting any link in the kill chain from track to lock to terminal that relies on RF detection is at an advantage.

If a ship approaches within visual range of the coast, which is the stated purpose of the LCS, all the stealth tech in the world is useless.

 

[westwall]

I have to say the whole idea of a LCS seems pretty stupid to me. It has no armor to speak of, has all of this stealth tech but is pretty easy to see with the old Mk I eyeball, has limited close in weapons capability and for a ship that is supposed to be operating close to shore those all seem to be some pretty major weaknesses.

Ships are not built for survivability anymore. One can debate the merits of the decision because both sides have good points. A battleship can take repeated hits, but costs a million a day to operate. One of the biggest sea battles of WW2 was the battle of the Philippines, won by tin can destroyers and a few light carriers on sub duty against Jap battleships and heavy cruisers.

Personally, I like the idea of a lot of fast ships with firepower running around every ocean, even if one hit may sink them.

The Battle Cruiser (eggshell with a hammer) concept was proven a failure at the Battle of Jutland way back in 1916.

Battle off Samar, 1944
American:
6 escort carriers
3 destroyers
4 destroyer escorts

Japanese:
4 battleships
6 heavy cruisers
2 light cruisers
11 destroyers

Result was a decisive American victory.

Ahhhh, if only it were the hulls that counted. I see you are ignoring the 168 aircraft the escort carriers were equipped with. Take away those airplanes and the picture changes dramatically don't you think?

Only validates my point further. In 2 weeks in Dec 41 Japan sunk or put out of commission every allied capital ship available in the Pacific using just air power.

So tell me again how a battleship will do in a war in 2020? By 43 they were nothing but floating shore bombardment platforms.

Currently, there is nothing in the inventory of ANY nation, save for torpedo's, that can harm a US battleship. As warships have changed, so has the ordnance designed to destroy them. A Exocet missile, which sunk one warship, a container ship and heavily damaged another warship during the Falklands war, would do nothing more than ding the paint and do damage to the various antennas on an Iowa Class battleship.

But, pleas note, i am not advocating bringing back battleships. However, I do advocate a smaller, purpose built ARMORED ship, for operating close in to shore. Right now a Somali pirate can do major damage to an LCS with an RPG. That's retarded.