Life on Alert in an Israeli Town

[AllieBaba]

THe Jews don't demonize the whole population, as far as I'm able to see. They demonize those who have earned demonization.

I don't see them targeting the children of Palestinians, or blowing up cafes...unless I've missed something??

And as any intelligent person will admit....I am fallible.

 

[Shogun]

They DONT? gosh, you sure are able to disregard the POPULATION of pals and their apartheid wall existence while using kassam rockets by a stark minority as a viable excuse for their condition!

Do you want to see pics and video of the IDF dealing with pal KIDS? just say the word, Allie.. You know how I do so enjoy posting evidence.

Bottom line, Allie Baba, is that kassams don't validate teaching jewish kids that pals, AS A POPULATION, are out to kill them and having a common messiah denominator won't keep such from being just as racist as germans hellbent on justifying their own "DEFENSE" of an aryan nation.


EARNED demonization! Yea, THAT's probably never been used to justify anything else in history either!

 

[AllieBaba]

I think you have been infected by hatred, Shogun.

 

[Shogun]

Funny, I think the same about you.


Now, which of us wants to claim otherwise and that our concern revolves around humanity rather than any particular identification with wither side?

I don't make my arguments because I have any connection with pals besides empathy for their human condition.. Can you say the same thing?


Make sure to clarify your answer by insisting that the standard that allowed us to make nazi's villains don't apply to zionists who are similarly engaged in ethnic purity and massive social domination of another ethnic population.

 

[AllieBaba]

I know you feel the same about me. The thing is, you base your belief on patent untruths about me. That I hate homosexuals, that I hate Muslims, that I hate non-Christians, that I hate anyone who doesn't think as I do.

You base that upon your own belief that anyone who doesn't believe exactly as you do must hate all the causes you espouse.

I think your rhetoric speaks for itself, and you come across as a pretty strong hater of Israelis, while defending the right of radicals to wipe them out.

I mean, that's what you write. But you can't pin your belief about my propensity to hate on anything I've actually written. It's all in your head.

 

[Shogun]

I know you feel the same about me. The thing is, you base your belief on patent untruths about me. That I hate homosexuals, that I hate Muslims, that I hate non-Christians, that I hate anyone who doesn't think as I do.

You base that upon your own belief that anyone who doesn't believe exactly as you do must hate all the causes you espouse.

I think your rhetoric speaks for itself, and you come across as a pretty strong hater of Israelis, while defending the right of radicals to wipe them out.

I mean, that's what you write. But you can't pin your belief about my propensity to hate on anything I've actually written. It's all in your head.

AND, you base your opinion on clear untruths about me. BUT, of course you wont acknoweldge as much since it's easier to scream antisemite than face the reality of bullshit in israel with the full lesson of history giving insight.

Dare I list every little thing you insist must be the case since I don't agree with you? Do any liberal bashing today? hint at the Scarlet A yet? Assume that I can't understand the bible because I don't believe in jebus yet? Your self-righteousness really doesn't go far, Allie.


Thats not true at all.. You see, IM THE ONE who keeps slapping you silly with history and am the ONLY ONE between the two of us to actually disect the pal conflict rather than assume that all pals are merely evil and enjoy killing jews. Never once have I claimed that all jews want to kill pals and enjoy letting them starve in the gutter outside the aparthied wall. THIS is why I keep nailing you for your hateful GENERALIZED opinion of pals as if a minority of kassam rocket wielding terrorists validate the dehumanization of the entire fucking pal population.

check mate, Allie.

IN fact, I dare you to quote me even remotely suggesting that muslims have a RIGHT to wipe out israel. Go ahead and practice that evidence thing and prove your silly little third grade accusation. THIS is where your inherent hatred of pals, or anything that stands in the way of the new master race, becomes evident.

Trust me... It has more to do with your posts than it does my confusion about your motivation.



But, scream antisemite again.. I don't think everyone heard you so they might not come a running to rescue you from the fact of history and the hateful excuses for ethnic marginalization that you thing is as valid as a german voting for legal jewish restrictions in the 40s

 

[AllieBaba]

And the checkmate is in your head, too.

I can post reams of anti-Israel crap you've written. I can post reams of anti-Christian crap you've written. That's the truth.

What isn't true is that I've ever posted anything that can be considered by any sane person to be anti-Muslim, anti-gay or anything else that you like to accuse me of. It's your own hatred which makes you imagine hatred around you.

And despite your penchant to cry "I win!" every time you reach an impasse, the fact remains. You can't find any post of mine in which I meet any of the accusations you've leveled at me at different times.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

Zionists, we are israelies.

when you say zionist you make it sound like a dirty word

yea, history sure is a red herring when it becomes inconvenient for zionists who enjoy ignoring the same social indicators that was once used to indicate jewish persecution. Funny how you always require a double standard, eh?

me: the palestinians are not using the money they have gotten and are getting for social improvement, with all due respect... you wanna go over there and make them do the right thing?

What we are talking about is your ability to ACCEPT the demonization of an entire popuation based on the actions of a few from said population. You know, just like demonizing ALL jews because SOME jews were greedy sheisters who hoarded wealth in Germany. Was ALL jews responsible for the actions of their greedy minority? no. Was this a good excuse to demonize ALL jews?? no. Was this an acceptable excuse to purge the nation of all but a MASTER RACE? no.

me: I have no clue what your talking about, jews are not greedy.. that is a racist steriotype that has been out there for centuries. Jews have 20% palestinian population in israel.

me: that is absolute nonsense, and a lie. Most of the jewish people want peace. And for you to claim that the jewish state and its citizens want nothing but to demonize the palestinians is disgusting, the ones who dont help and neglect, and really could rescue the palestinians living conditions are who are their arab neigbors, but instead since 1948 they have used the palestinians as pawns to fight israel, and leave them in shit. And another thing, israel should risk being blowing up, murdered, and lose their state so the so called peaceful palestinaisn who's schools teach their kids that jihad is the only way, and their friday night sermons teach nazi style hate. You seem very one sided. Like youre the palestinian spokesman. Palestinians must take responsibility for their actions. They and they alone are the reason for their living conditions, as well as arab countries who dont give a shit about them


But, thankfully, you've managed to get comfortable saying YES to all of the above... as long as it applies to pals instead of jews.


Weren't you just bragging about intelligence?

me: insulting people, very classy. I expect more of you

 

[AllieBaba]

Goyim, jebus-lover, homophobe, the list goes on and on. Add to that a penchant to make every single argument personal...

So when you shriek "rabid" and "hater" at people, you really shouldn't expect them to listen, when that's all we get from you.

 

[Shogun]

And the checkmate is in your head, too.

I can post reams of anti-Israel crap you've written. I can post reams of anti-Christian crap you've written. That's the truth.

What isn't true is that I've ever posted anything that can be considered by any sane person to be anti-Muslim, anti-gay or anything else that you like to accuse me of. It's your own hatred which makes you imagine hatred around you.

And despite your penchant to cry "I win!" every time you reach an impasse, the fact remains. You can't find any post of mine in which I meet any of the accusations you've leveled at me at different times.

Then do it. Like i said, I DARE you to quote me making even the slightest generalizations about jews that you do about muslimis. Hell, I JUST made fun of you for doing that shit in another thread just now!

Oh yea, Allie.. you are immediatly ANTI-muslim. Anti gay is another story altogether.

01-22-2008, 02:34 PM


I know. They argue that it's "empowering" to be hidden behind a blanket because you're "free to be".

Just like it's "empowering" to submit to being one of multiple wives. I guess the freedom there is to be neglected by your husband.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/showthread.php?p=642170&posted=1#post642170



See how posting evidence works, Allie? It's much more tangible than your lame fucking accusation.

Indeed, I bet palestine IMAGINES hatred every day on the outside of that aparthied wall too.. Yup. GOOD ONE!



Now, until you grow the testicular fortitude to PROVE your accusation then I'll tapdance on your forehead singing checkmate all day long.

 

[Shogun]

Zionists, we are israelies.

when you say zionist you make it sound like a dirty word



me: insulting people, very classy. I expect more of you

not all jews are zionists much like not all germans were nazis. I suggest you discover the definitions of the vocab, Acts. Maybe even venture into the very words of pre-israel jews. Indeed, when you can disregard muslims like Germany disregarded you ijn WW2 for the sake of ethnic purity and jewish domination then, yes, it is a dirty word.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism

If you'd like I can quote some rather famous zionist quotes for you.

 

[Shogun]

Goyim, jebus-lover, homophobe, the list goes on and on. Add to that a penchant to make every single argument personal...

So when you shriek "rabid" and "hater" at people, you really shouldn't expect them to listen, when that's all we get from you.

Hey, if the shoe fits... I don't see you crying when someone wtarts whipping out the Scarlet A... But, of COURSE, it's always the OTHER person who deserves it, eh Allie? That can't POSSIBLY be a pattern of yours, eh?

 

[AllieBaba]

Some people embrace hate-filled rhetoric, then assume that everybody is motivated by the same hatred they are.
That doesn't make it so.

 

[Annie]

are the lessons that teach kids to launch rockets any different than the lessons that teach kids what unhuman monsters mulsims, specifically pas, are?

Where do you find Israeli kids being taught such? It's been documented that many Muslim countries, not just the Palestinians, have propaganda in their school books. It's just a fact that they have programs on Palestinian television encouraging suicide bombing, calling for the end of Israel, etc., aimed at the Sesame Street crowd. I've yet to see anything comparable, actually anything encouraging hate towards Palestinians. Now there may well be some problems with the Orthodox that keep wanting to build inside Gaza, but that isn't the Israeli television, news papers, schools, or main body of Israelis.

 

[Shogun]

Then I suggest you stop assuming that the population of Pals hate jews just because a handful of them are voilent. Take your own advice, Allie. If you would stop pouncing at every opportunity to demonize muslims, LIKE WHEN BRINGING UP MUSLIM BURKAH EVEN THOUGH YOUR OWN RELIGION IS NO ICON OF GENDER EQUALITY, then perhaps you would not feel the need to reach for the Scarlet A every time israel gets some dirt on it's reputation.

 

[Annie]

but teaching your kids that muslims just want to kill them beause they are jewish and, therefor, deserve their place behind the wall while living in a zionist israel where ethnic purity is the goal is NOT hate?


oooook.


Face it, if germans treated its jews like israel treats the pals you'd be screaming holocaust by now. We both know it. Maybe some goofy little baby carriage bumper sticker will make such hatred seem less identical to german anti-jew laws to you but there will always be walt disney types rooting for a pet nation instead of common humanity

That's what's on tv in Palestinian territories, to kill the monkey Jews.

 

[AllieBaba]

Then I suggest you stop assuming that the population of Pals hate jews just because a handful of them are voilent. Take your own advice, Allie. If you would stop pouncing at every opportunity to demonize muslims, LIKE WHEN BRINGING UP MUSLIM BURKAH EVEN THOUGH YOUR OWN RELIGION IS NO ICON OF GENDER EQUALITY, then perhaps you would not feel the need to reach for the Scarlet A every time israel gets some dirt on it's reputation.

But then, who can tell whether you actually know how my religion stands on issues of sex...and where your own imagination begins?

You keep making different arguments. As soon as one fails, you grab another one. When it fails, you grab another. And all are substandard, and don't prove your point that the Pals are justified, no, that they don't really hate, no, that only a few of them do, no, that they're just defending themselves, no, that the Israelis are just as bad, no.........

 

[Shogun]

for a guy who supposedly jumps from argument to argument like Qbert I sure am the ONLY one between you and I to post evidence of my accusations. Indeed, I must be proving something to DRIVE you to the Scarlet A reaction time and again.


And, if you REALLY think that anyone sees christianity as some sort of unpredictable mystery then you are fooling yourself. Heres some advice: non-believers can also read and comprehend the bible too.


no, PALS AS A WHOLE, don't hate any more than JEWS AS A WHOLE are not inherently greedy. But, hey, if you can't figure that out then call someone else the racist.

 

[AllieBaba]

No, you post what you accept as evidence. There's a difference between what you'll accept as truthful and non-biased, and what most of the rest of us will accept.

The secret to really winning an argument (not just in your head) is to use sources and evidence that the OTHER side will accept.

Otherwise, time to re-think your stance.

 

[Shogun]

Where do you find Israeli kids being taught such? It's been documented that many Muslim countries, not just the Palestinians, have propaganda in their school books. It's just a fact that they have programs on Palestinian television encouraging suicide bombing, calling for the end of Israel, etc., aimed at the Sesame Street crowd. I've yet to see anything comparable, actually anything encouraging hate towards Palestinians. Now there may well be some problems with the Orthodox that keep wanting to build inside Gaza, but that isn't the Israeli television, news papers, schools, or main body of Israelis.

yes.. It's a totally exotic beast to see people like Allie rationalize the plight of an ethnic population based on the actions of a few.

But, if you think israel is innocent of such I suggest you mozy on over to jpost.com and read some feedback. or..

In the article "The Arab Image in Hebrew School Textbooks" by professor Dan Bar-Tal of the Tel Aviv University makes a study of 124 textbooks used in Israeli schools and reports that "over the years, generations of Israeli Jews were taught a negative and often delegitimizing view of Arabs." The two main traits of Arabs in the textbooks are "primitiveness, inferiority in comparison to Jews" and "their violence, to characteristics like brutality, untrustworthiness, cruelty, fanaticism, treacherousness and aggressiveness.". In the 1980s and 1990s "Geography books for the elementary and junior high schools stereotype Arabs negatively, as primitive, dirty, agitated, aggressive, and hostile to Jews … history books in the elementary schools hardly mention Arabs … history textbooks of the high schools, the majority of which cover the Arab-Jewish conflict, stereotype the Arabs negatively. Arabs are presented as intransigent and uncompromising."

In 2007 the Association for Civil Rights in Israel released a report claiming that the expression of anti-Arab views had doubled, and anti-Arab racist incidents had increased by 26%.[51] The report quoted polls that suggested, 50% of Jewish Israelis do not believe Arab citizens of Israel should have equal rights, 50% said they wanted the government to encourage Arab emigration from Israel, and 75% of Jewish youths said Arabs were less intelligent and less clean than Jews.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Arabism


The Follow-Up Committee for Arab Education notes that the Israeli government spends an average of $192 per year on each Arab student compared to $1,100 per Jewish student. The drop-out rate for Arab citizens of Israel is twice as high as that of their Jewish counterparts (12 percent versus 6 percent). The same group also notes that there is a 5,000-classroom shortage in the Arab sector.[150

Intercommunal relations

Public attitudes

There are significant tensions between Arab citizens and their Jewish counterparts. A 2006 poll commissioned by the Arab advocacy group, The Center for the Struggle Against Racism, found that: 63% of Jews believe Arabs are a security threat; 68% of Jews would refuse to live in the same building as an Arab; 34% of Jews believe that Arab culture is inferior to Israeli culture. Additionally, support for segregation between Jewish and Arab citizens was found to be higher among Jews of Middle Eastern origin than those of European origin.[164]

In December 2007, the Association for Civil Rights in Israel reported a "dramatic increase" in racism against Arab citizens, including a 26 percent rise in anti-Arab incidents. According to ACRI president Sami Michael, "Israeli society is reaching new heights of racism that damages freedom of expression and privacy".[165]

A recent poll conducted by the Center of Anti-Racism based on questions asked to 500 selective Jewish residents of Israel representing all levels of the Jewish society showed unexpectedly negative attitudes towards Arabs. According to the official results:

* 75% would not agree to live in a building with Arab residents.
* More than 60% wouldn't accept any Arab visitors at their homes.
* About 40% agree upon taking the right to vote from Arabs.
* More than 50% agree that the State should encourage immigration of Arab citizens to other states.
* More than 59% think that the culture of Arabs is a primitive culture.

When asked "What do you feel when you hear people speaking Arabic?" 31% said they feel hate and 50% said they feel fear, with only 19% stating positive or neutral feelings.[166]

A 2007 poll conducted by Sami Smoocha, a sociologist at Haifa University, found that

* 63.3% of Israeli Jews said they avoid entering Arab towns and cities
* 68.4% of Israeli Jews fear the possibility of widespread civil unrest among Israeli Arabs
* 49.7% of Israeli Arabs said Hizbullah's capture of IDF reservists Ehud Goldwasser and Eldad Regev in a cross-border raid was justified
* 18.7% of Israeli Arabs thought Israel was justified in going to war following the kidnapping
* The fact that Arab Israelis were affected, and some wounded and killed due to Hezbollah rocket fire did not make an apparent impact on Arab opinion. 48.2% said they believed that Hizbullah's rocket attacks on northern Israel during that war were justified
* 89.1% of Israeli Arabs said they viewed the IDF's bombing of Lebanon as a war crime
* 44% of Israeli Arabs said they viewed Hizbullah's bombing of Israel as a war crime
* 62% of Israeli Arabs worry that Israel could transfer their communities to the jurisdiction of a future Palestinian state
* 60% of Israeli Arabs said they are concerned about a possible mass expulsion
* 76% of Israeli Arabs described Zionism as racist
* 67.5% of Israeli Arabs said they would be content to live in the Jewish state, if it existed alongside a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip
* 28% of Israeli Arabs deny the Holocaust; among high school and college graduates the figure was even higher (33%)[64]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Arab#Discrimination