Librul Distortions, Stupidity and Outright Lies

[CrusaderFrank]

or 47 million without insurance in total, including children, but only 30 million adults, who are able to buy it, can not?

i dunno, could be a number of things i'd consider before calling it a lie of some sort...

Actually, if you listen closely to the lies from the Left on Health Care, when they use the 47 million figure they'll say either "Citizens" or "people" as if they were interchangeable.

However, when you put Obama 2 statements together:

"We've got 46-47 million people without health insurance in our country." -- BHO

"There are now more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage," -- BHO

It's obvious that we have 17MM Illegal Aliens here. On average, that's the equivalent of 3 additional states worth of people.

I find it amazing that the Democrats are off in the tens of millions column and you are throwing out wild guesses as to what the numbers mean.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

In oder to have a debate one must have enough commonly accepted facts to debate an issue.

So in your case, Frank, you cannot debate most issues with liberals because you and they simply don't agree on enough to discuss anything in detail.

Like I said, lets start with the number of uninsured to the nearest 17 million. Fair enough?

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

8:17 9/13/09

Still no one from the Left cares to dispute any of the numbers, but it does seem as if one of the mental hospitals is experimenting with giving their long term patients Internet access.

Oh they 'CARE' to dispute the numbers CF... it's just that when the numbers they want to dispute are framed in relevance, it pretty well undermines their entire argument, thus their only good option is to keep their baseless opinions to themselves...

Of course the lowest common denominators... well ... they just can't help themselves.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

“This is not just about the 47 million Americans who have no health insurance,” -- BHO 7/22/09

See? There it is again.

 

[The T]

I find this thread fascinating. Especially when the true answer is plain as the wart on the Libs' noses.

Rather amazing that...

 

[Care4all]

or 47 million without insurance in total, including children, but only 30 million adults, who are able to buy it, can not?

i dunno, could be a number of things i'd consider before calling it a lie of some sort...

Actually, if you listen closely to the lies from the Left on Health Care, when they use the 47 million figure they'll say either "Citizens" or "people" as if they were interchangeable.

However, when you put Obama 2 statements together:

"We've got 46-47 million people without health insurance in our country." -- BHO

"There are now more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage," -- BHO

It's obvious that we have 17MM Illegal Aliens here. On average, that's the equivalent of 3 additional states worth of people.

I find it amazing that the Democrats are off in the tens of millions column and you are throwing out wild guesses as to what the numbers mean.

not really....i read a Pew Institute Study reported that nearly half of the illegal aliens here get insurance through their employer...of course this would mean that half of them, must have committed identity theft, in order for them to be working at a place with benefits perhaps!!!

btw-i have never, ever seen anyone claiming it was 47 million citizens without insurance, only people.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

or 47 million without insurance in total, including children, but only 30 million adults, who are able to buy it, can not?

i dunno, could be a number of things i'd consider before calling it a lie of some sort...

Actually, if you listen closely to the lies from the Left on Health Care, when they use the 47 million figure they'll say either "Citizens" or "people" as if they were interchangeable.

However, when you put Obama 2 statements together:

"We've got 46-47 million people without health insurance in our country." -- BHO

"There are now more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage," -- BHO

It's obvious that we have 17MM Illegal Aliens here. On average, that's the equivalent of 3 additional states worth of people.

I find it amazing that the Democrats are off in the tens of millions column and you are throwing out wild guesses as to what the numbers mean.

not really....i read a Pew Institute Study reported that nearly half of the illegal aliens here get insurance through their employer...of course this would mean that half of them, must have committed identity theft, in order for them to be working at a place with benefits perhaps!!!

btw-i have never, ever seen anyone claiming it was 47 million citizens without insurance, only people.

ROFLMNAO.... Well gee...

So we're looking dead in the face of the specter which rationalizes the UNFETTERED ACCEPTANCE FOR FREE HEALTHCARE FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS... which THE BOY King has emphatically assured us, is not in the bill...

OH WAIT! HOLD THE PHONE... What he said was "UNDOCUMENTED"... he never said "ILLEGAL..."

Anyone else noticing a pattern here?

 

[PeterS]

We're trying to have an honest debate with our Librul brothers and sister, but how can you possibly debate and reason with a Party that:

1. Can't tell us to the nearest 17 MILLION how many uninsured we're talking about.

"We've got 46-47 million people without health insurance in our country." -- BHO

"There are now more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage," -- BHO,

2. Insists we model Medicare and points to is as a success, but wants to eliminate “the hundreds of billions of dollars in waste and fraud.” HUH? What the fuck!? How is a program with "hundreds of billions of dollars in waste and fraud" a success?

3. Claims that tort reform alone will only save 1-2% and is therefore not worth pursuing, but "if we can successfully slow the growth of health care costs by just one-tenth of one percent each year, it will actually reduce the deficit by $4 trillion over the long term."

So, if we enact tort reform alone we can reduce the deficit by $40 to 80 trillion!, and fully fund Soc Security, Medicare and Medicaid!

How, how, how can you debate Librul if they lie in the tens of million of people and lie in the multi-TRILLION Column?

You are doing apple and orange comparisons and then arguing 'truth'. Your argument is absurd. Those unable to get health insurance is a subset of total without health insurance--not the set. Satisfaction is measured in results not waste, fraud, or cost. If the latter is your measure then private health care is much more a failure since it is more costly. The tort reform number you are quoting is a CBO number that determined that less than 2% of total costs are from malpractice and tort reform would only reduce that by 0.4 to 0.5...or basically nothing. The tenth of a percent is of total not the percent of a percent you are looking at with the former.

You would do well to worry less about Obama's 'lies' and more about you inability to tell a subset from a set. A third grader shows better cognitive skills than you've shown here...

 

[Care4all]

Actually, if you listen closely to the lies from the Left on Health Care, when they use the 47 million figure they'll say either "Citizens" or "people" as if they were interchangeable.

However, when you put Obama 2 statements together:

"We've got 46-47 million people without health insurance in our country." -- BHO

"There are now more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage," -- BHO

It's obvious that we have 17MM Illegal Aliens here. On average, that's the equivalent of 3 additional states worth of people.

I find it amazing that the Democrats are off in the tens of millions column and you are throwing out wild guesses as to what the numbers mean.

not really....i read a Pew Institute Study reported that nearly half of the illegal aliens here get insurance through their employer...of course this would mean that half of them, must have committed identity theft, in order for them to be working at a place with benefits perhaps!!!

btw-i have never, ever seen anyone claiming it was 47 million citizens without insurance, only people.

ROFLMNAO.... Well gee...

So we're looking dead in the face of the specter which rationalizes the UNFETTERED ACCEPTANCE FOR FREE HEALTHCARE FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS... which THE BOY King has emphatically assured us, is not in the bill...

OH WAIT! HOLD THE PHONE... What he said was "UNDOCUMENTED"... he never said "ILLEGAL..."

Anyone else noticing a pattern here?

if an illegal can buy or earn their own insurance and i am not helping them pay for it with ''affordability credits'', that's fine with me....I do not expect private insurance companies, or any private corporation or business in America to be RESPONSIBLE for the government's duty. That would be an unfunded mandate and government control over all private businesses for INS's and homeland security's job....

care

 

[edthecynic]

you know, it's almost a good thing that he posts... reminds the rest of us why we're correct.

What are you "Correct" about, J? Can you tell me to the nearest 10 Million, how many uninsured there are?

Take your time.

Goggle if you must

You CON$ have been citing the CBO quite a lot regarding health care, and the CBO says there are 45 million uninsured now in 2009 rising to 54 million by 2019 if nothing is done.

Introduction and Background

The Uninsured Population


About 45 million people, or about 15 percent of the total U.S. population, will be uninsured at any given point in 2009, by CBO’s most recent estimates. Because the elderly have near-universal coverage from Medicare, many analyses of the uninsured focus on the nonelderly population, about 17 percent of which is expected to lack coverage in 2009. Those estimates for 2009 do not reflect the recent deterioration in economic conditions, which could result in a larger uninsured population.
In many cases, people’s insurance status varies over the course of a year. For example, CBO’s analysis of survey data showed that between 57 million and 59 million people—or roughly one-fourth of the nonelderly n population—were uninsured at some point during 1998. The average number of people who were uninsured at a give point in 1998 was smaller—between 39 million and 44 million, of which 21 million to 31 million were uninsured for all of that year.19 CBO also found that for those who became uninsured at some point between July 1996 and June 1997, nearly half had spells of uninsurance lasting four months or less and about one in six had spells lasting two years or more.
According to CBO’s projections, the average number of people who are uninsured at any one time will rise to about 54 million, or about 19 percent of the nonelderly population, by 2019. The number of uninsured individuals is expected to increase because health insurance premiums are likely to rise considerably faster than income, which will make insurance more difficult to afford.

 

[PeterS]

not really....i read a Pew Institute Study reported that nearly half of the illegal aliens here get insurance through their employer...of course this would mean that half of them, must have committed identity theft, in order for them to be working at a place with benefits perhaps!!!

btw-i have never, ever seen anyone claiming it was 47 million citizens without insurance, only people.

ROFLMNAO.... Well gee...

So we're looking dead in the face of the specter which rationalizes the UNFETTERED ACCEPTANCE FOR FREE HEALTHCARE FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS... which THE BOY King has emphatically assured us, is not in the bill...

OH WAIT! HOLD THE PHONE... What he said was "UNDOCUMENTED"... he never said "ILLEGAL..."

Anyone else noticing a pattern here?

if an illegal can buy or earn their own insurance and i am not helping them pay for it with ''affordability credits'', that's fine with me....I do not expect private insurance companies, or any private corporation or business in America to be RESPONSIBLE for the government's duty. That would be an unfunded mandate and government control over all private businesses for INS's and homeland security's job....

care

Here in Texas a journeyman carpenter starts a $22 per hour. An undocumented.illegal carpenter however will run from $10 to $15 per hour. Haven't they 'earned' health insurance by providing reduced labor costs or doesn't providing higher profits for business and lower costs for you, the consumer, qualify as earnings?

And I can't make any sense out of the rest of your argument...

 

[CrusaderFrank]

We're trying to have an honest debate with our Librul brothers and sister, but how can you possibly debate and reason with a Party that:

1. Can't tell us to the nearest 17 MILLION how many uninsured we're talking about.

"We've got 46-47 million people without health insurance in our country." -- BHO

"There are now more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage," -- BHO,

2. Insists we model Medicare and points to is as a success, but wants to eliminate “the hundreds of billions of dollars in waste and fraud.” HUH? What the fuck!? How is a program with "hundreds of billions of dollars in waste and fraud" a success?

3. Claims that tort reform alone will only save 1-2% and is therefore not worth pursuing, but "if we can successfully slow the growth of health care costs by just one-tenth of one percent each year, it will actually reduce the deficit by $4 trillion over the long term."

So, if we enact tort reform alone we can reduce the deficit by $40 to 80 trillion!, and fully fund Soc Security, Medicare and Medicaid!

How, how, how can you debate Librul if they lie in the tens of million of people and lie in the multi-TRILLION Column?

You are doing apple and orange comparisons and then arguing 'truth'. Your argument is absurd. Those unable to get health insurance is a subset of total without health insurance--not the set. Satisfaction is measured in results not waste, fraud, or cost. If the latter is your measure then private health care is much more a failure since it is more costly. The tort reform number you are quoting is a CBO number that determined that less than 2% of total costs are from malpractice and tort reform would only reduce that by 0.4 to 0.5...or basically nothing. The tenth of a percent is of total not the percent of a percent you are looking at with the former.

You would do well to worry less about Obama's 'lies' and more about you inability to tell a subset from a set. A third grader shows better cognitive skills than you've shown here...

How am I doing an "apple and orange comparison" when Obama is on record as calling 47 million "Americans" and people interchangeable until the speech to Congress when the number plummets to "30 million Americans"

“This is not just about the 47 million Americans who have no health insurance,” -- BHO 7/22/09

"There are now more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage," -- BHO 9/9/09

Spend more time at Reading Rainbow and less time insulting me, especially when its obvious to everyone you've had your face in the Obama Kool Aid Can and have totally embarrassed yourself with your shameless, thoughtless sucking up to Obama.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

or 47 million without insurance in total, including children, but only 30 million adults, who are able to buy it, can not?

i dunno, could be a number of things i'd consider before calling it a lie of some sort...

Actually, if you listen closely to the lies from the Left on Health Care, when they use the 47 million figure they'll say either "Citizens" or "people" as if they were interchangeable.

However, when you put Obama 2 statements together:

"We've got 46-47 million people without health insurance in our country." -- BHO

"There are now more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage," -- BHO

It's obvious that we have 17MM Illegal Aliens here. On average, that's the equivalent of 3 additional states worth of people.

I find it amazing that the Democrats are off in the tens of millions column and you are throwing out wild guesses as to what the numbers mean.

not really....i read a Pew Institute Study reported that nearly half of the illegal aliens here get insurance through their employer...of course this would mean that half of them, must have committed identity theft, in order for them to be working at a place with benefits perhaps!!!

btw-i have never, ever seen anyone claiming it was 47 million citizens without insurance, only people.

“This is not just about the 47 million Americans who have no health insurance,” -- BHO 7/22/09

that help?

 

[Liability]

Actually, if you listen closely to the lies from the Left on Health Care, when they use the 47 million figure they'll say either "Citizens" or "people" as if they were interchangeable.

However, when you put Obama 2 statements together:

"We've got 46-47 million people without health insurance in our country." -- BHO

"There are now more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage," -- BHO

It's obvious that we have 17MM Illegal Aliens here. On average, that's the equivalent of 3 additional states worth of people.

I find it amazing that the Democrats are off in the tens of millions column and you are throwing out wild guesses as to what the numbers mean.

not really....i read a Pew Institute Study reported that nearly half of the illegal aliens here get insurance through their employer...of course this would mean that half of them, must have committed identity theft, in order for them to be working at a place with benefits perhaps!!!

btw-i have never, ever seen anyone claiming it was 47 million citizens without insurance, only people.

“This is not just about the 47 million Americans who have no health insurance,” -- BHO 7/22/09

that help?

It would IF we could only be sure that by "Americans" President Obama was not referring to "anyone who happens to BE in America." He tends to get confused like that.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

you know, it's almost a good thing that he posts... reminds the rest of us why we're correct.

What are you "Correct" about, J? Can you tell me to the nearest 10 Million, how many uninsured there are?

Take your time.

Goggle if you must

You CON$ have been citing the CBO quite a lot regarding health care, and the CBO says there are 45 million uninsured now in 2009 rising to 54 million by 2019 if nothing is done.

Introduction and Background

The Uninsured Population


About 45 million people, or about 15 percent of the total U.S. population, will be uninsured at any given point in 2009, by CBO’s most recent estimates. Because the elderly have near-universal coverage from Medicare, many analyses of the uninsured focus on the nonelderly population, about 17 percent of which is expected to lack coverage in 2009. Those estimates for 2009 do not reflect the recent deterioration in economic conditions, which could result in a larger uninsured population.
In many cases, people’s insurance status varies over the course of a year. For example, CBO’s analysis of survey data showed that between 57 million and 59 million people—or roughly one-fourth of the nonelderly n population—were uninsured at some point during 1998. The average number of people who were uninsured at a give point in 1998 was smaller—between 39 million and 44 million, of which 21 million to 31 million were uninsured for all of that year.19 CBO also found that for those who became uninsured at some point between July 1996 and June 1997, nearly half had spells of uninsurance lasting four months or less and about one in six had spells lasting two years or more.
According to CBO’s projections, the average number of people who are uninsured at any one time will rise to about 54 million, or about 19 percent of the nonelderly population, by 2019. The number of uninsured individuals is expected to increase because health insurance premiums are likely to rise considerably faster than income, which will make insurance more difficult to afford.

We're talking about 2009, not 2019. We have a swing of 17MM TODAY! Let's try to pin that down first before we pro-forma it out, hmmmkay?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

ROFLMNAO.... Well gee...

So we're looking dead in the face of the specter which rationalizes the UNFETTERED ACCEPTANCE FOR FREE HEALTHCARE FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS... which THE BOY King has emphatically assured us, is not in the bill...

OH WAIT! HOLD THE PHONE... What he said was "UNDOCUMENTED"... he never said "ILLEGAL..."

Anyone else noticing a pattern here?

if an illegal can buy or earn their own insurance and i am not helping them pay for it with ''affordability credits'', that's fine with me....I do not expect private insurance companies, or any private corporation or business in America to be RESPONSIBLE for the government's duty. That would be an unfunded mandate and government control over all private businesses for INS's and homeland security's job....

care

Here in Texas a journeyman carpenter starts a $22 per hour. An undocumented.illegal carpenter however will run from $10 to $15 per hour. Haven't they 'earned' health insurance by providing reduced labor costs or doesn't providing higher profits for business and lower costs for you, the consumer, qualify as earnings?

And I can't make any sense out of the rest of your argument...

You support tax evasion as a legitimate cost reduction? Yeah? Are you all wee weed up?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

not really....i read a Pew Institute Study reported that nearly half of the illegal aliens here get insurance through their employer...of course this would mean that half of them, must have committed identity theft, in order for them to be working at a place with benefits perhaps!!!

btw-i have never, ever seen anyone claiming it was 47 million citizens without insurance, only people.

“This is not just about the 47 million Americans who have no health insurance,” -- BHO 7/22/09

that help?

It would IF we could only be sure that by "Americans" President Obama was not referring to "anyone who happens to BE in America." He tends to get confused like that.

He missopke and was misreported by a media that was all wee weed up

 

[Liability]

“This is not just about the 47 million Americans who have no health insurance,” -- BHO 7/22/09

that help?

It would IF we could only be sure that by "Americans" President Obama was not referring to "anyone who happens to BE in America." He tends to get confused like that.

He missopke and was misreported by a media that was all wee weed up

Oui!

Oui oui!

 

[PeterS]

We're trying to have an honest debate with our Librul brothers and sister, but how can you possibly debate and reason with a Party that:

1. Can't tell us to the nearest 17 MILLION how many uninsured we're talking about.

"We've got 46-47 million people without health insurance in our country." -- BHO

"There are now more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage," -- BHO,

2. Insists we model Medicare and points to is as a success, but wants to eliminate “the hundreds of billions of dollars in waste and fraud.” HUH? What the fuck!? How is a program with "hundreds of billions of dollars in waste and fraud" a success?

3. Claims that tort reform alone will only save 1-2% and is therefore not worth pursuing, but "if we can successfully slow the growth of health care costs by just one-tenth of one percent each year, it will actually reduce the deficit by $4 trillion over the long term."

So, if we enact tort reform alone we can reduce the deficit by $40 to 80 trillion!, and fully fund Soc Security, Medicare and Medicaid!

How, how, how can you debate Librul if they lie in the tens of million of people and lie in the multi-TRILLION Column?

You are doing apple and orange comparisons and then arguing 'truth'. Your argument is absurd. Those unable to get health insurance is a subset of total without health insurance--not the set. Satisfaction is measured in results not waste, fraud, or cost. If the latter is your measure then private health care is much more a failure since it is more costly. The tort reform number you are quoting is a CBO number that determined that less than 2% of total costs are from malpractice and tort reform would only reduce that by 0.4 to 0.5...or basically nothing. The tenth of a percent is of total not the percent of a percent you are looking at with the former.

You would do well to worry less about Obama's 'lies' and more about you inability to tell a subset from a set. A third grader shows better cognitive skills than you've shown here...

How am I doing an "apple and orange comparison" when Obama is on record as calling 47 million "Americans" and people interchangeable until the speech to Congress when the number plummets to "30 million Americans"

“This is not just about the 47 million Americans who have no health insurance,” -- BHO 7/22/09

"There are now more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage," -- BHO 9/9/09

Spend more time at Reading Rainbow and less time insulting me, especially when its obvious to everyone you've had your face in the Obama Kool Aid Can and have totally embarrassed yourself with your shameless, thoughtless sucking up to Obama.

The latter is a subset of the former. A subset can only be a set when it is totally inclusive. This is not, and how is my pointing out your inadequacies in basic math a defense of Obama?

 

[edthecynic]

What are you "Correct" about, J? Can you tell me to the nearest 10 Million, how many uninsured there are?

Take your time.

Goggle if you must

You CON$ have been citing the CBO quite a lot regarding health care, and the CBO says there are 45 million uninsured now in 2009 rising to 54 million by 2019 if nothing is done.

Introduction and Background

The Uninsured Population

About 45 million people, or about 15 percent of the total U.S. population, will be uninsured at any given point in 2009, by CBO’s most recent estimates. Because the elderly have near-universal coverage from Medicare, many analyses of the uninsured focus on the nonelderly population, about 17 percent of which is expected to lack coverage in 2009. Those estimates for 2009 do not reflect the recent deterioration in economic conditions, which could result in a larger uninsured population.
In many cases, people’s insurance status varies over the course of a year. For example, CBO’s analysis of survey data showed that between 57 million and 59 million people—or roughly one-fourth of the nonelderly n population—were uninsured at some point during 1998. The average number of people who were uninsured at a give point in 1998 was smaller—between 39 million and 44 million, of which 21 million to 31 million were uninsured for all of that year.19 CBO also found that for those who became uninsured at some point between July 1996 and June 1997, nearly half had spells of uninsurance lasting four months or less and about one in six had spells lasting two years or more.
According to CBO’s projections, the average number of people who are uninsured at any one time will rise to about 54 million, or about 19 percent of the nonelderly population, by 2019. The number of uninsured individuals is expected to increase because health insurance premiums are likely to rise considerably faster than income, which will make insurance more difficult to afford.

We're talking about 2009, not 2019. We have a swing of 17MM TODAY! Let's try to pin that down first before we pro-forma it out, hmmmkay?

There's nothing like the perpetual CON$ervative Dumb Act.