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You are doing apple and orange comparisons and then arguing 'truth'. Your argument is absurd. Those unable to get health insurance is a subset of total without health insurance--not the set. Satisfaction is measured in results not waste, fraud, or cost. If the latter is your measure then private health care is much more a failure since it is more costly. The tort reform number you are quoting is a CBO number that determined that less than 2% of total costs are from malpractice and tort reform would only reduce that by 0.4 to 0.5...or basically nothing. The tenth of a percent is of total not the percent of a percent you are looking at with the former.
You would do well to worry less about Obama's 'lies' and more about you inability to tell a subset from a set. A third grader shows better cognitive skills than you've shown here...
How am I doing an "apple and orange comparison" when Obama is on record as calling 47 million "Americans" and people interchangeable until the speech to Congress when the number plummets to "30 million Americans"
This is not just about the 47 million Americans who have no health insurance, -- BHO 7/22/09
"There are now more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage," -- BHO 9/9/09
Spend more time at Reading Rainbow and less time insulting me, especially when its obvious to everyone you've had your face in the Obama Kool Aid Can and have totally embarrassed yourself with your shameless, thoughtless sucking up to Obama.
The latter is a subset of the former. A subset can only be a set when it is totally inclusive. This is not, and how is my pointing out your inadequacies in basic math a defense of Obama?
You CON$ have been citing the CBO quite a lot regarding health care, and the CBO says there are 45 million uninsured now in 2009 rising to 54 million by 2019 if nothing is done.
We're talking about 2009, not 2019. We have a swing of 17MM TODAY! Let's try to pin that down first before we pro-forma it out, hmmmkay?
There's nothing like the perpetual CON$ervative Dumb Act.
We're talking about 2009, not 2019. We have a swing of 17MM TODAY! Let's try to pin that down first before we pro-forma it out, hmmmkay?
There's nothing like the perpetual CON$ervative Dumb Act.
Are we talking about American Citizens, Americans, Illegal Aliens, or what?!
We're trying to have an honest debate with our Librul brothers and sister, but how can you possibly debate and reason with a Party that:
1. Can't tell us to the nearest 17 MILLION how many uninsured we're talking about.
"We've got 46-47 million people without health insurance in our country." -- BHO
"There are now more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage," -- BHO,
2. Insists we model Medicare and points to is as a success, but wants to eliminate the hundreds of billions of dollars in waste and fraud. HUH? What the fuck!? How is a program with "hundreds of billions of dollars in waste and fraud" a success?
3. Claims that tort reform alone will only save 1-2% and is therefore not worth pursuing, but "if we can successfully slow the growth of health care costs by just one-tenth of one percent each year, it will actually reduce the deficit by $4 trillion over the long term."
So, if we enact tort reform alone we can reduce the deficit by $40 to 80 trillion!, and fully fund Soc Security, Medicare and Medicaid!
How, how, how can you debate Librul if they lie in the tens of million of people and lie in the multi-TRILLION Column?
How am I doing an "apple and orange comparison" when Obama is on record as calling 47 million "Americans" and people interchangeable until the speech to Congress when the number plummets to "30 million Americans"
This is not just about the 47 million Americans who have no health insurance, -- BHO 7/22/09
"There are now more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage," -- BHO 9/9/09
Spend more time at Reading Rainbow and less time insulting me, especially when its obvious to everyone you've had your face in the Obama Kool Aid Can and have totally embarrassed yourself with your shameless, thoughtless sucking up to Obama.
The latter is a subset of the former. A subset can only be a set when it is totally inclusive. This is not, and how is my pointing out your inadequacies in basic math a defense of Obama?
This is not just about the 47 million Americans who have no health insurance, -- BHO 7/22/09
"There are now more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage," -- BHO 9/9/09
Wait...I just got it! I snorted KoolAid and I see where you're wrong! You think Illegal Aliens are Americans! IS THAT IT? Is that how you're so wrong in the tens of millions column?
The latter is a subset of the former. A subset can only be a set when it is totally inclusive. This is not, and how is my pointing out your inadequacies in basic math a defense of Obama?
This is not just about the 47 million Americans who have no health insurance, -- BHO 7/22/09
"There are now more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage," -- BHO 9/9/09
Wait...I just got it! I snorted KoolAid and I see where you're wrong! You think Illegal Aliens are Americans! IS THAT IT? Is that how you're so wrong in the tens of millions column?
Is it? I suppose then if you refer to yourself as an American you are calling yourself an illegal alien. I think you are snorting more than just koolaid...
There's nothing like the perpetual CON$ervative Dumb Act.
Are we talking about American Citizens, Americans, Illegal Aliens, or what?!
If the CBO says 45 million "uninsured," then they are clearly talking about PEOPLE.
If President Obama uses that same figure, then HE must mean people, even if he uses the term "Americans."
Thus, by the logic of President Obama, all people must be Americans!
And if the CBO number for "uninsured" (I presume they do not include giraffes) does mean "uninsured people," and if President Obama declares that the 45 million figure for uninsured means uninsured Americans (which must be what he means since he said 45 million "uninsured Americans"), then President Obama has to be including ALL people here as Americans even if they are aliens here illegally.
Are we talking about American Citizens, Americans, Illegal Aliens, or what?!
If the CBO says 45 million "uninsured," then they are clearly talking about PEOPLE.
If President Obama uses that same figure, then HE must mean people, even if he uses the term "Americans."
Thus, by the logic of President Obama, all people must be Americans!
And if the CBO number for "uninsured" (I presume they do not include giraffes) does mean "uninsured people," and if President Obama declares that the 45 million figure for uninsured means uninsured Americans (which must be what he means since he said 45 million "uninsured Americans"), then President Obama has to be including ALL people here as Americans even if they are aliens here illegally.
Or legally. There is no differentiation for those here legally either. And for the record, the CBO study was done based on the Census study which cites "American Households". This would include everyone. So what. This doesn't change the argument.
We're trying to have an honest debate with our Librul brothers and sister, but how can you possibly debate and reason with a Party that:
1. Can't tell us to the nearest 17 MILLION how many uninsured we're talking about.
"We've got 46-47 million people without health insurance in our country." -- BHO
"There are now more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage," -- BHO,
2. Insists we model Medicare and points to is as a success, but wants to eliminate the hundreds of billions of dollars in waste and fraud. HUH? What the fuck!? How is a program with "hundreds of billions of dollars in waste and fraud" a success?
3. Claims that tort reform alone will only save 1-2% and is therefore not worth pursuing, but "if we can successfully slow the growth of health care costs by just one-tenth of one percent each year, it will actually reduce the deficit by $4 trillion over the long term."
So, if we enact tort reform alone we can reduce the deficit by $40 to 80 trillion!, and fully fund Soc Security, Medicare and Medicaid!
How, how, how can you debate Librul if they lie in the tens of million of people and lie in the multi-TRILLION Column?
It's so simple I hate to have to explain it. I will try to talk "simpleton", maybe that will help.
Republican policies screwed up the economy.
Millions of people lost jobs.
People with no jobs have no health care insurance.
Insurance companies cut people who become sick.
Add it all together and the number of those uninsured rose from 30 to 47 million.
I'm not even looking it up, I'm just guessing, but I bet I'm right. Prove me wrong.
I tried talking "simpleton", but I'm not as good as you. Sorry.
The latter is a subset of the former. A subset can only be a set when it is totally inclusive. This is not, and how is my pointing out your inadequacies in basic math a defense of Obama?
This is not just about the 47 million Americans who have no health insurance, -- BHO 7/22/09
"There are now more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage," -- BHO 9/9/09
Wait...I just got it! I snorted KoolAid and I see where you're wrong! You think Illegal Aliens are Americans! IS THAT IT? Is that how you're so wrong in the tens of millions column?
Is it? I suppose then if you refer to yourself as an American you are calling yourself an illegal alien. I think you are snorting more than just koolaid...
Are we talking about American Citizens, Americans, Illegal Aliens, or what?!
If the CBO says 45 million "uninsured," then they are clearly talking about PEOPLE.
If President Obama uses that same figure, then HE must mean people, even if he uses the term "Americans."
Thus, by the logic of President Obama, all people must be Americans!
And if the CBO number for "uninsured" (I presume they do not include giraffes) does mean "uninsured people," and if President Obama declares that the 45 million figure for uninsured means uninsured Americans (which must be what he means since he said 45 million "uninsured Americans"), then President Obama has to be including ALL people here as Americans even if they are aliens here illegally.
Or legally. There is no differentiation for those here legally either. And for the record, the CBO study was done based on the Census study which cites "American Households". This would include everyone. So what. This doesn't change the argument.
This is not just about the 47 million Americans who have no health insurance, -- BHO 7/22/09
"There are now more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage," -- BHO 9/9/09
Wait...I just got it! I snorted KoolAid and I see where you're wrong! You think Illegal Aliens are Americans! IS THAT IT? Is that how you're so wrong in the tens of millions column?
Is it? I suppose then if you refer to yourself as an American you are calling yourself an illegal alien. I think you are snorting more than just koolaid...
Absurd. Your obvious inability to use logic as a tool is now established.
If 45 million are uninsured (per the CBO) and President Obama says that there are 45 million uninsured Americans, then he is claiming that all uninsured are Americans.
But if the 45 million uninusred figure refers to uninsured PEOPLE, then the CBO was not the one claiming that all people are Americans. THEY were including uninsured illegal aliens as well as perfectly legal Americans, etc., in the total figure.
If Frank or I refer to ourselves as Americans, we are NOT agreeing with President Obama. We are (unlike him) MAKING the distinction.
Go buy a comic book or something and have a grown-up read it to you.
If the CBO says 45 million "uninsured," then they are clearly talking about PEOPLE.
If President Obama uses that same figure, then HE must mean people, even if he uses the term "Americans."
Thus, by the logic of President Obama, all people must be Americans!
And if the CBO number for "uninsured" (I presume they do not include giraffes) does mean "uninsured people," and if President Obama declares that the 45 million figure for uninsured means uninsured Americans (which must be what he means since he said 45 million "uninsured Americans"), then President Obama has to be including ALL people here as Americans even if they are aliens here illegally.
Or legally. There is no differentiation for those here legally either. And for the record, the CBO study was done based on the Census study which cites "American Households". This would include everyone. So what. This doesn't change the argument.
So if the metric is 47MM "people in America", Obama and the Dems are covering 17MM Illegal Aliens.
What the hell can't you people see the big picture??
Who's spending the huge money to fight this thing, both in the senate and the public opinion??
Insurance co's.
Who has made ridiculous profits from by DENYING CARE?
Insurance co's.
The fact is insurance companies are corporations, who, by law, MUST do everything possible to insure a profit to shareholders. Like the evil pres said, "they're not bad people, they're just trying to make a profit."
The problem is they profit by denying care and dropping the sick. A public option would end this because they wouldn't be profit motivated.
It's really pretty simple.
But you conservatives just keep fighting for giant corporations. That's what they want.
not really....i read a Pew Institute Study reported that nearly half of the illegal aliens here get insurance through their employer...of course this would mean that half of them, must have committed identity theft, in order for them to be working at a place with benefits perhaps!!!
btw-i have never, ever seen anyone claiming it was 47 million citizens without insurance, only people.
ROFLMNAO.... Well gee...
So we're looking dead in the face of the specter which rationalizes the UNFETTERED ACCEPTANCE FOR FREE HEALTHCARE FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS... which THE BOY King has emphatically assured us, is not in the bill...
OH WAIT! HOLD THE PHONE... What he said was "UNDOCUMENTED"... he never said "ILLEGAL..."
Anyone else noticing a pattern here?
if an illegal can buy or earn their own insurance and i am not helping them pay for it with ''affordability credits'', that's fine with me....I do not expect private insurance companies, or any private corporation or business in America to be RESPONSIBLE for the government's duty. That would be an unfunded mandate and government control over all private businesses for INS's and homeland security's job....
care
What the hell can't you people see the big picture??
Who's spending the huge money to fight this thing, both in the senate and the public opinion??
Insurance co's.
Who has made ridiculous profits from by DENYING CARE?
Insurance co's.
The fact is insurance companies are corporations, who, by law, MUST do everything possible to insure a profit to shareholders. Like the evil pres said, "they're not bad people, they're just trying to make a profit."
The problem is they profit by denying care and dropping the sick. A public option would end this because they wouldn't be profit motivated.
It's really pretty simple.
But you conservatives just keep fighting for giant corporations. That's what they want.
Or legally. There is no differentiation for those here legally either. And for the record, the CBO study was done based on the Census study which cites "American Households". This would include everyone. So what. This doesn't change the argument.
So if the metric is 47MM "people in America", Obama and the Dems are covering 17MM Illegal Aliens.
Where do you get 17M and why does it matter?
This is not just about the 47 million Americans who have no health insurance, -- BHO 7/22/09
"There are now more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage," -- BHO 9/9/09
Wait...I just got it! I snorted KoolAid and I see where you're wrong! You think Illegal Aliens are Americans! IS THAT IT? Is that how you're so wrong in the tens of millions column?
Is it? I suppose then if you refer to yourself as an American you are calling yourself an illegal alien. I think you are snorting more than just koolaid...
So because your attempt to rescue ObamaCare has blown up on the Launchpad you're forced into saying that ALL Americans are Illegal Aliens?
you know, it's almost a good thing that he posts... reminds the rest of us why we're correct.
What are you "Correct" about, J? Can you tell me to the nearest 10 Million, how many uninsured there are?
Take your time.
Goggle if you must
You CON$ have been citing the CBO quite a lot regarding health care, and the CBO says there are 45 million uninsured now in 2009 rising to 54 million by 2019 if nothing is done.
Introduction and Background
The Uninsured Population
About 45 million people, or about 15 percent of the total U.S. population, will be uninsured at any given point in 2009, by CBOs most recent estimates. Because the elderly have near-universal coverage from Medicare, many analyses of the uninsured focus on the nonelderly population, about 17 percent of which is expected to lack coverage in 2009. Those estimates for 2009 do not reflect the recent deterioration in economic conditions, which could result in a larger uninsured population.
In many cases, peoples insurance status varies over the course of a year. For example, CBOs analysis of survey data showed that between 57 million and 59 million peopleor roughly one-fourth of the nonelderly n populationwere uninsured at some point during 1998. The average number of people who were uninsured at a give point in 1998 was smallerbetween 39 million and 44 million, of which 21 million to 31 million were uninsured for all of that year.19 CBO also found that for those who became uninsured at some point between July 1996 and June 1997, nearly half had spells of uninsurance lasting four months or less and about one in six had spells lasting two years or more.
According to CBOs projections, the average number of people who are uninsured at any one time will rise to about 54 million, or about 19 percent of the nonelderly population, by 2019. The number of uninsured individuals is expected to increase because health insurance premiums are likely to rise considerably faster than income, which will make insurance more difficult to afford.
We're talking about 2009, not 2019. We have a swing of 17MM TODAY! Let's try to pin that down first before we pro-forma it out, hmmmkay?
There's nothing like the perpetual CON$ervative Dumb Act.
Are we talking about American Citizens, Americans, Illegal Aliens, or what?!
