Librul Distortions, Stupidity and Outright Lies

[SmarterThanHick]

except, he hasn't said a single thing wrong. "more than 30 million". is 47 million more than 30 million?

regardless, is the underlying principle spot on accurate? Are there suddenly not a large number of uninsured in this country? Whoa! He was mildly unsure of how ridiculously high the number was because... hmm... we have no way to actually track it? You do realize that it's a best guess at most, eh?

Now that I think of it, he was actually right, depending on how you define "American". There are an estimate 12-17 million illegal immigrants in America. There are about 30 million uninsured American citizens (note the quote doesn't have the word "citizen" unless referring to the 30 million). Looks like a matter of twisting things out of context to me.

But again, even if that weren't the case. Even if his top advisors got different estimates during different times... why do you care? Does the problem suddenly change? Does the solution?

 

[KittenKoder]

except, he hasn't said a single thing wrong. "more than 30 million". is 47 million more than 30 million?

regardless, is the underlying principle spot on accurate? Are there suddenly not a large number of uninsured in this country? Whoa! He was mildly unsure of how ridiculously high the number was because... hmm... we have no way to actually track it? You do realize that it's a best guess at most, eh?

Now that I think of it, he was actually right, depending on how you define "American". There are an estimate 12-17 million illegal immigrants in America. There are about 30 million uninsured American citizens (note the quote doesn't have the word "citizen" unless referring to the 30 million). Looks like a matter of twisting things out of context to me.

But again, even if that weren't the case. Even if his top advisors got different estimates during different times... why do you care? Does the problem suddenly change? Does the solution?

You, like so many of his Borg, forget, no one has to go without health coverage if they are not too lazy to fill out the paperwork.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

“This is not just about the 47 million Americans who have no health insurance,” -- BHO 7/22/09

"There are now more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage," -- BHO 9/9/09


That help?

Those two statements do not contradict one another. At all. This is basic logic here. 57 million is more than 30 million. When someone says "there are more than 30 million", that can still mean 47 million.

but at the end of the day: who cares?

47 million
30 million
2 million

Let's say you're a doctor, and someone walks into your ER without insurance. Does it really matter how many more million people similarly don't have insurance? Really? The exact number doesn't matter at all, not even to the "17 million" you keep quoting.

You want to claim an entire effort is poor for the country because you can't compare two numbers? Let's just say, worst case scenario, the president just flat out misspoke. Somehow that means the entire plan is bad now?

Go get a GED.

GED? Coming from a fucking moron who is off out in the tens of millions column?

Go get a clue.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

except, he hasn't said a single thing wrong. "more than 30 million". is 47 million more than 30 million?

regardless, is the underlying principle spot on accurate? Are there suddenly not a large number of uninsured in this country? Whoa! He was mildly unsure of how ridiculously high the number was because... hmm... we have no way to actually track it? You do realize that it's a best guess at most, eh?

Now that I think of it, he was actually right, depending on how you define "American". There are an estimate 12-17 million illegal immigrants in America. There are about 30 million uninsured American citizens (note the quote doesn't have the word "citizen" unless referring to the 30 million). Looks like a matter of twisting things out of context to me.

But again, even if that weren't the case. Even if his top advisors got different estimates during different times... why do you care? Does the problem suddenly change? Does the solution?

"Now that I think of it, he was actually right, depending on how you define "American"."

Wait, you weren't serious were you?

First, Obama hisself is admitting to 17MM Illegals whom he now no longer considers Americans, at least that what he said last week.

In any event thank you for showing everybody that my original point was correct: you cannot have an honest debate when Obamaroids are off and lying about the number of people we're discussing in the tens of million column.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

again I ask: even if off in numbers - does it change the problem?

does it change the solution?

not a single one of you hicks has yet to extend your awe-inspiring epiphany into any practical context. 30 million American citizens don't have insurance. 12-17 million illegal immigrants in America (that's 47 million total) are uninsured. These are still facts, and if they weren't, it still doesn't change anything.

 

[CryGlennCry]

That's not the big picture, that's a lot of media spin about on piece of the puzzle so you don't look at the other pieces.

How the hell is that media spin??
And btw, the media is wholeheartedly behind defeating this bill!
Jeez, open your eyes.
Its occam's razor: THE SIMPLEST EXPLANATION IS PREFERRED.
What's more plausible...A vast left wing plan to drag America into socialist slavery?
OR....Decent people in govt trying to do what decent people in govt have been trying to do for 60 years, get health care for all it's citizens?

Government is not decent, period. Government is about making more money for politicians. Stop blindly following your savior and look at the whole picture for once.

"Cut off the head, and the body will die."

Who is at the head?

Jeez, you all love to say Obama's our Savior.
Aside from a few wackos and some black folks who are proud to see a one of their own in the white house, no one thinks he is anything but a politician.
That being said, I do believe that his heart is in the right place and he truly wants to make our nation better. And I refuse to root AGAINST him. But I am not a sheep. I'm very disappointed with a few of his decisions. And if he doesn't start impressing me, I won't vote for him again. Ya see...That's how democracy works.
What the f*ck is wrong with you people??
If HE fails, the country fails.

 

[CryGlennCry]

Government is not decent, period. Government is about making more money for politicians. Stop blindly following your savior and look at the whole picture for once.

If that's truly what you believe, why do you live in this country?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Will the DNC "Rain of Hell Fire" explain ANYTHING in the OP?

Bueller?

Anyone?

Anyone?

DNC promises 'rain of hellfire' - Yahoo! News

 

[CrusaderFrank]

"DNC spokesman Hari Sevugan said: “The message to opponents of change who would lie or misrepresent the truth should be clear. We are going to respond forcefully and consistently with the facts, and you will no longer be able to peddle your lies with impunity. Through tools like 'Call 'Em Out,' you will be met with a rain of hellfire from supporters armed with the facts and you will be held to account.”

Call me out, fuck-o!

1. Can't tell us to the nearest 17 MILLION how many uninsured we're talking about.

"We've got 46-47 million people without health insurance in our country." -- BHO

"There are now more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage," -- BHO,

2. Insists we model Medicare and points to is as a success, but wants to eliminate “the hundreds of billions of dollars in waste and fraud.” HUH? What the fuck!? How is a program with "hundreds of billions of dollars in waste and fraud" a success?

3. Claims that tort reform alone will only save 1-2% and is therefore not worth pursuing, but "if we can successfully slow the growth of health care costs by just one-tenth of one percent each year, it will actually reduce the deficit by $4 trillion over the long term."

So, if we enact tort reform alone we can reduce the deficit by $40 to 80 trillion!, and fully fund Soc Security, Medicare and Medicaid!

 

[SmarterThanHick]

"We've got 46-47 million people without health insurance in our country." -- BHO

"There are now more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage," -- BHO,

Both of those statements are true. I know how easy it is for hicks with sub par reading skills to only pick out parts of sentences they like as long as it disagrees with anyone they don't like, but please go try again. Of the ~47 million people in this country without health insurance, ~30 million are citizens.

I know how big numbers can be confusing, but please try reading the words around them next time.

2. Insists we model Medicare and points to is as a success, but wants to eliminate “the hundreds of billions of dollars in waste and fraud.” HUH? What the fuck!? How is a program with "hundreds of billions of dollars in waste and fraud" a success?

Imagine you have a fishtank, and you noticed that all your fish died within one day everytime you got new fish. Now imagine you sunk a ton of money into buying those high end filters and fancy fishtank cleaning systems. You lost tons of money, but all your fish live much longer and have better lives. Is it a success? Well, you lost all that money, but your fish are still swimmin....

I agree that losing the amount of money that they did was outright negligent, but the GOAL was not "save as much money". We can just kill old people outright if you want to save money. Heck, if you withhold all healthcare to all people, America would save money. The GOAL is to save lives, which did happen. It seems to me you can't even begin to understand the other point of view. You don't have to agree with it, but don't expect your opinion to have any value if you can't even get a basic understanding of the other point of view.

3. Claims that tort reform alone will only save 1-2% and is therefore not worth pursuing, but "if we can successfully slow the growth of health care costs by just one-tenth of one percent each year, it will actually reduce the deficit by $4 trillion over the long term."

So, if we enact tort reform alone we can reduce the deficit by $40 to 80 trillion!, and fully fund Soc Security, Medicare and Medicaid!

Obama is pursuing malpractice reform. It's even listed directly on his site:
Organizing for America | BarackObama.com | The President's Plan for Health Reform

 

[CrusaderFrank]

"We've got 46-47 million people without health insurance in our country." -- BHO

"There are now more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage," -- BHO,

Both of those statements are true. I know how easy it is for hicks with sub par reading skills to only pick out parts of sentences they like as long as it disagrees with anyone they don't like, but please go try again. Of the ~47 million people in this country without health insurance, ~30 million are citizens.

I know how big numbers can be confusing, but please try reading the words around them next time.

2. Insists we model Medicare and points to is as a success, but wants to eliminate “the hundreds of billions of dollars in waste and fraud.” HUH? What the fuck!? How is a program with "hundreds of billions of dollars in waste and fraud" a success?

Imagine you have a fishtank, and you noticed that all your fish died within one day everytime you got new fish. Now imagine you sunk a ton of money into buying those high end filters and fancy fishtank cleaning systems. You lost tons of money, but all your fish live much longer and have better lives. Is it a success? Well, you lost all that money, but your fish are still swimmin....

I agree that losing the amount of money that they did was outright negligent, but the GOAL was not "save as much money". We can just kill old people outright if you want to save money. Heck, if you withhold all healthcare to all people, America would save money. The GOAL is to save lives, which did happen. It seems to me you can't even begin to understand the other point of view. You don't have to agree with it, but don't expect your opinion to have any value if you can't even get a basic understanding of the other point of view.

3. Claims that tort reform alone will only save 1-2% and is therefore not worth pursuing, but "if we can successfully slow the growth of health care costs by just one-tenth of one percent each year, it will actually reduce the deficit by $4 trillion over the long term."

So, if we enact tort reform alone we can reduce the deficit by $40 to 80 trillion!, and fully fund Soc Security, Medicare and Medicaid!

Obama is pursuing malpractice reform. It's even listed directly on his site:
Organizing for America | BarackObama.com | The President's Plan for Health Reform

1. So 30 million and 47 million must mean the same thing to you and Obama. Thanks for clearing that up.

Next time, just say that "there are now more that 6 Americans"

2. Are you even vaguely familiar with what "Waste and fraud" are? They are recurring annually and according to your Savior its costing us billions annually. I have no idea at all what your "fish tank" analogy is supposed to mean except that maybe when you run out of Obama Kool Aid to snort you snort fish food.

3. Good for Obama to pursue tort reform by a women putting in charge of it who is 4 square against it. That's good thinking.

Were you the DNC answer to the "lies"? That's it? 47MM and more than 30MM are the same thing, a fish tank and a women opposed to tort reform will handle tort reform...wow!

 

[SmarterThanHick]

1. So 30 million and 47 million must mean the same thing to you and Obama. Thanks for clearing that up.

Nope, and that's not what Obama said either. But, I can't expect you to read words if there are numbers in a sentence too.

OK, let's break this down in question format.
1a: About how many illegal immigrants are uninsured in this country?
1b: About how many US citizens are uninsured in this country?
1c: Combining both legal citizens and illegal immigrants, how many many total people are uninsured in this country (that is, 1a + 1b)?

2. Are you even vaguely familiar with what "Waste and fraud" are? They are recurring annually and according to your Savior its costing us billions annually. I have no idea at all what your "fish tank" analogy is supposed to mean except that maybe when you run out of Obama Kool Aid to snort you snort fish food.

Yes, which means the goal was met (success), but at a very poor cost - two things you seem completely incapable of differentiating.

3. Good for Obama to pursue tort reform by a women putting in charge of it who is 4 square against it. That's good thinking.

Oh I see - malpractice reform can't happen because a woman is in charge. Nevermind that she is more highly educated than you, or perfectly qualified. Oh no, she can't do it because some sexist hick says so. Good logix.