Let's Talk BCS!

[CrimsonWhite]

I'd personally prefer a top 8. But, I thought you were for the top 12, so I split the difference.

As to Alabama, It just goes to show that there is too much picking and polling and not enough playing to determine the National Champs. So, if he (Crimson) wants to claim 8, 13, or 16 then more power to him.

I don't claim this, it is commonly accepted.

 

[Jon]

It is commonly accepted that Alabama has 12 national championships. It really isn't up for debate.

WikiAnswers - How many NCAA football national championships has University of Alabama won

Alabama has won only 7 outright National Championships. These are the ones which they actually won the National Championship game.

Only Alabamians say they have 12.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

WikiAnswers - How many NCAA football national championships has University of Alabama won



Only Alabamians say they have 12.

From your link:

According to the National Championship Foundation, since 1901 Alabama has won 12 national championships. The years were 1925, 1926, 1930, 1934, 1941, 1961, 1964, 1965, 1973, 1978, 1979, and 1992.

It isn't just Alabamians that say it. Whether they were outright or not, is irrevelant. The organization that defines such things says 12.

 

[Jon]

It isn't just Alabamians that say it. Whether they were outright or not, is irrevelant. The organization that defines such things says 12.

You say 12. Help yourself. I say 7. If it ain't outright, it ain't a championship.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

You say 12. Help yourself. I say 7. If it ain't outright, it ain't a championship.

I'm not saying it. Your link is. The National Championship Foundation is. ESPN has been aying it all week. You saying it isn't just makes you look dumb. Either way it is still more than Arkansas.

 

[pegwinn]

I'm not saying it. Your link is. The National Championship Foundation is. The NCF no longer exists, thus it isn't the defining authority. But really.....

ESPN has been aying it all week. ESPN is no more holy writ than MTV. The NCAA is good enough as a starting place. I guess in the next series of posts we will all start parsing our word and saying things like "Undisputed National Champs".

You saying it isn't just makes you look dumb. Either way it is still more than Arkansas.

A fine article that works well for me.

Now, say it, chant it, dream it, and pass it on to the powers that be.... Playoff

 

[Jon]

I'm not saying it. Your link is. The National Championship Foundation is. ESPN has been aying it all week. You saying it isn't just makes you look dumb. Either way it is still more than Arkansas.

Nice attempt at trying to change the subject. Notice I never brought up Arkansas? We have one National title. One year we actually played in the national championship game and won. At least we can say we "outright" won ours. Of course, in that same year, Alabama won some poll, so they want to try and share it with us. I laugh at the thought.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

Nice attempt at trying to change the subject. Notice I never brought up Arkansas? We have one National title. One year we actually played in the national championship game and won. At least we can say we "outright" won ours. Of course, in that same year, Alabama won some poll, so they want to try and share it with us. I laugh at the thought.

That year was 1964 and that poll was the AP poll. I figured it time for a subject change, since your own link proved that we have 12. You want to run down how championships that we have yet Arkansas isn't the outright winner of the 1964 National Championship. You can say the sky is green, but it doesn't make it so. There was no national championship game in 1964, the NCAA recognized the National Champioship from the winner of the AP poll and the UPI Coach's Poll. That is how the NC was determined. Guess who won those. That's right, not Arkansas. It is true that Arkansas won their bowl game and Alabama did not, but that doesn't change the polls. That doesn't change the criteria for choosing the NC. So by your definition, it wasn't an outright NC for Arkansas and you don't have any.

 

[Jon]

You're delusional. No one with a bit of sense would claim Alabama as a champion after they lost their bowl game. They were named #1 BEFORE their final game. It was this very year that led the AP to release a final poll after the bowl games.

It's funny, you say there is "no debate," yet we're debating it. You can claim 12. I still say 7. We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

You're delusional. No one with a bit of sense would claim Alabama as a champion after they lost their bowl game. They were named #1 BEFORE their final game. It was this very year that led the AP to release a final poll after the bowl games.

It's funny, you say there is "no debate," yet we're debating it. You can claim 12. I still say 7. We'll have to agree to disagree.

You are agreeing to disagree with common knowledge. You are disagreeing with common knowledge. This like you saying that 2+2=whatever the hell you want it to. Fine by me, I will agree that you are wrong and we will move on.

 

[Jon]

Sorry dude, it's not the same as someone's saying 2+2=whatever the hell they want. It's not common knowledge. It's been a highly debated controversial issue in college football for years. Some say winning the poll = being national champions, some don't. I don't. It's the same reason I don't recognize USC as being co-champs in 2003.

 

[random3434]

OK boys, sorry to interrupt this conversation, but I'm wondering something along these lines........

Did the teams who won the "Mythical" National Championships get trophies or some sort of award saying they won? (Back before polls and BCB BS)

 

[CrimsonWhite]

OK boys, sorry to interrupt this conversation, but I'm wondering something along these lines........

Did the teams who won the "Mythical" National Championships get trophies or some sort of award saying they won? (Back before polls and BCB BS)

Yes. Back then, there were numerous National Championships. The AP awarded one, UPI awarded one, hell anybody that wanted to awarded one. For instance, the instance in which sanders and I were refering to is in 1964. Going into the bowl season, Alabama was #1 and Arkansas was #2. The AP and UPI voted in their national champion before the bowl games were played. They voted for Alabama. Alabama went on to lose to Texas and Arkansas went on to beat somebody in the Cotton Bowl. After the bowl games were played, Football Writers Association of America and the Helms Athletic Foundation awarded their trophies to Arkansas. There were multiple trophies and multiple winners. That is the reason for the BCS. Now there is only one. The problem is that they are still based on polls.

 

[random3434]

Yes. Back then, there were numerous National Championships. The AP awarded one, UPI awarded one, hell anybody that wanted to awarded one. For instance, the instance in which sanders and I were refering to is in 1964. Going into the bowl season, Alabama was #1 and Arkansas was #2. The AP and UPI voted in their national champion before the bowl games were played. They voted for Alabama. Alabama went on to lose to Texas and Arkansas went on to beat somebody in the Cotton Bowl. After the bowl games were played, Football Writers Association of America and the Helms Athletic Foundation awarded their trophies to Arkansas. There were multiple trophies and multiple winners. That is the reason for the BCS. Now there is only one. The problem is that they are still based on polls.

Thank you! So you can count (as other colleges can that have them) as years of being National Champions, right?


I don't think IU ever got one............. (in football, we have 5 NCAA ones in Basketball! )

 

[Jon]

Now there is only one.

Ehhhh...wrong.

The AP declared USC their national champions in 2003.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

Ehhhh...wrong.

The AP declared USC their national champions in 2003.

Yes, but the BCS is the only NCAA recognized qualifier for a national champion, as of 1998.

 

[Jon]

Yes, but the BCS is the only NCAA recognized qualifier for a national champion, as of 1998.

Wrong again.

NCAA.com - The Official Web Site of the NCAA

 

[CrimsonWhite]

Wrong again.

NCAA.com - The Official Web Site of the NCAA

Okay, so the NCAA recognizes that 2003 is shared. Since then the BCS has been the final word. I stand corrected on that point.

 

[Jon]

No, it's just that 2003 is the only year since the BCS started that the final AP poll and the final BCS standings differed.

 

[pegwinn]

That is the reason for the BCS. Now there is only one. The problem is that they are still based on polls.

And that kiddos is the crux of the problem in college football today. The polls. No matter who or how you count, we should be able to agree that the BCS system should stop with a final ranking. That final ranking should place X number of teams into playoff berths.