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Did the state controlled media ask any of your teabaggers if they want government to make their healthcare decisions?
Another lie from the america destroying neo cons.
Huggy
What is the difference between single payer and universal health care?
R-S.....thank you for mentioning how CERTAIN unions in Cal. are strangling this state.....the rest of the country need look no further than your left coast,to see what NEO-liberals can do to a thriving society.....Did the state controlled media ask any of your teabaggers if they want government to make their healthcare decisions?
Another lie from the america destroying neo cons.
I am in an exceptionally bad mood today, so I will try to be polite, but if there is anyone responsible for destroying this country, it is the leftist/public unions mentality of give me give give me service - but tax someone else for the services. This disease has destroyed California, and is about to do the same to NY and several other states, with the biggest bomb about to fall on the US as a whole as Obama bankrupts the country.
In NY, we had a perfect example of this yesterday, where one-term governor Paterson finished negotiations with the massively exploding public unions where they will actually have to fuinally contribute to their health coverage, in the form of tiny co-pays for doctor visits. WTF? What century, let alone decade, are we in?
And of course the animal asshole unions refused to re-open current contracts where workers can retire on full pensions after 20 years on the job, so a 40 year old can collect over $100,000 per year for the next 50 years with COLA adjustments. I would have fired most, de-unionized the rest, and cut benefits across the board.
If they don't like it, there's 1000 unemployed people for every public union job in NY state.
GM was also destroyed by the unions, and if the country does not as a whole start to massively reduce its spending, and start to attack the public unions' ridicuous benefits and perks, there will be, as Celente predicted, massive riots over the next few years.
Those unions are causing a catastrophe, and clearly care nothing about anyone but themselves, and they will be brought to heel, either through the legislative process, or by physical means.
Huggy
What is the difference between single payer and universal health care?
As you stated earlier single payer is a government administered and paid system. It would be like medicare, which is very successful and has a 3% cost for running the program. You pick your doctor, you buy your own meds, the system is funded federally.
Right now we pay more for less. I don't have "the plan" as no one does yet. If we had a medicare-like system we would get more for less.
Universal is privately held insurance. If you live in a state where you have compulsory driving insurance then you are familiar with "universal" coverage. The main purpose of a private insurance company is to make a profit. The easiest way to do that is to deny benefits. I have seen and heard hundreds of instances where someone paid the premiums and where denied coverage.
I don't want more and the worst of the same which universal insurance is.
This isn't that hard to figure out. Of the 37 industrialised countries all but one provide health care for its citizens. If these are failed programs as the insurance companies would like you to believe then there would be mass rioting in those countries.
The lobbiests get paid fortunes to keep it so. Turn off your TV and radio. Go look in the mirror. Do you see a person as deserving of as healthy a future as possible or someone that has to beg from people who profit when you are sick by denying you medical aid.
This is as much about respect and human dignity as anything.
Huggy
What is the difference between single payer and universal health care?
As you stated earlier single payer is a government administered and paid system. It would be like medicare, which is very successful and has a 3% cost for running the program. You pick your doctor, you buy your own meds, the system is funded federally.
Right now we pay more for less. I don't have "the plan" as no one does yet. If we had a medicare-like system we would get more for less.
Universal is privately held insurance. If you live in a state where you have compulsory driving insurance then you are familiar with "universal" coverage. The main purpose of a private insurance company is to make a profit. The easiest way to do that is to deny benefits. I have seen and heard hundreds of instances where someone paid the premiums and where denied coverage.
I don't want more and the worst of the same which universal insurance is.
This isn't that hard to figure out. Of the 37 industrialised countries all but one provide health care for its citizens. If these are failed programs as the insurance companies would like you to believe then there would be mass rioting in those countries.
The lobbiests get paid fortunes to keep it so. Turn off your TV and radio. Go look in the mirror. Do you see a person as deserving of as healthy a future as possible or someone that has to beg from people who profit when you are sick by denying you medical aid.
This is as much about respect and human dignity as anything.
Huggy....there are 10 countries in the world with populations over 100 mil.....how many of them have great healthcare systems?....and then compare the same countries and then tell me where you would rather be if you or a loved one was hurt seriously and needed help....what i am basically saying here is....all these so-called great health care systems are in countries with populations MUCH lower than ours,and are much smaller in size ....outside of Canada,but they only have to worry about,what,30 mill. people .....you guys are making it sound so much easier to do than what it really is.....
Huggy....there are 10 countries in the world with populations over 100 mil.....how many of them have great healthcare systems?....and then compare the same countries and then tell me where you would rather be if you or a loved one was hurt seriously and needed help....what i am basically saying here is....all these so-called great health care systems are in countries with populations MUCH lower than ours,and are much smaller in size ....outside of Canada,but they only have to worry about,what,30 mill. people .....you guys are making it sound so much easier to do than what it really is.....
gee, maybe Jon should remove HIS lips firstFINALLY--Jon Stewart of the daily show is getting tired of all the media ass KISSING of Obama.
THIS IS FUNNY: "Brian Williams has the hots for Obama."
Hot Air » Blog Archive » Video: NBC’s ass-kissing of Obama too much even for Jon Stewart
Huggy....there are 10 countries in the world with populations over 100 mil.....how many of them have great healthcare systems?....and then compare the same countries and then tell me where you would rather be if you or a loved one was hurt seriously and needed help....what i am basically saying here is....all these so-called great health care systems are in countries with populations MUCH lower than ours,and are much smaller in size ....outside of Canada,but they only have to worry about,what,30 mill. people .....you guys are making it sound so much easier to do than what it really is.....
I'm not arguing one way or another, since I have lived in both Canada and the UK, and have used both systems. If you are worried about size, there are two points. First, one would think that the larger the country, the greater the economies of scale. This is absolutely, positively, completely and totally a big plus for government-run health care. One of the reasons why other countries have lower health care costs is because there is less paperwork due to economies of scale. Second, if you think that the country is too big, then do it through the states.
Having lived half my life in Canada and half in America - and a bit in England - my perception is that Americans have a far worse perception of the Canadian system than it really is. On the other hand, most Canadians also have a far worse perception of the American system than it really is. Both nations feed on cultural stereotypes and overdramatize the differences.
Generally, if you are poor or lower-middle class, it is better to be in Canada. If you are rich and upper middle class, it is better to be in America. If you are middle class, it depends upon your health insurance in the US. If you have great insurance, it is better to be in America. If you have poor insurance, it is better to be in Canada.
They lied about the "Tea Parties" too you were happy with them then.. I mock your disgust.
You can't be serious. Fox CREATED the tea parties. Are you really that much of a neo con tool?
See? There ya go? and then I go
A Tale Of Two Tax Protests
Date 2009/6/7 1:28:12 | Topic: Opinion
By John Hood
RALEIGH About the dueling protests held recently in Raleigh on the subject of North Carolina taxes and spending, one can observe some similarities.
Both events occurred at the Legislative Building. Both focused media and public attention on the yawning budget gap the North Carolina General Assembly will have to close for the fiscal year that begins July 1. And both featured impassioned speeches about the budget.
But the similarities end there.
On June 2, representatives from some 80 nonprofits, spending lobbies, and left-wing groups held a press conference to state their opposition to a developing House version of the 2009-10 budget that would close the deficit without a tax increase. The liberals argued that unless the spending cuts are balanced with tax hikes (though they preferred the euphemism more revenues) the states progress would be set back by decades. Some predicted widespread social upheaval and even dead bodies if the legislature failed to raise taxes.
On June 3, approximately 3,000 taxpayers from across North Carolina gathered outside the Legislative Building to oppose new taxes and demand fiscal restraint and accountability from their elected officials. The Tar Heel conservatives participating in this Take Back Our State Tea Party, organized by the state chapter of Americans for Prosperity, argued that the escalating government budgets of the past two decades were never a sign of North Carolinas progress but were instead evidence of North Carolinas descent into fiscal recklessness, public corruption, and economic stagnation. Recognizing that households and businesses are already suffering income and job losses due to the recession, protesting taxpayers said it was time for government agencies to bring their spending appetites in line with economic reality, too.
Indeed, the fundamental difference between the two messages was realism. The liberal press conference lacked it. The conservative protest exemplified it.
The reason why many Democratic members of the NC House are loath to recommend a tax increase is that, realistically, it wont help the state budget picture very much but it will hurt the economy and their own political prospects, perhaps by a lot. ....
You can't be serious. Fox CREATED the tea parties. Are you really that much of a neo con tool?
See? There ya go? and then I go
Speaking of 'below the radar', some changes maybe coming:
A Tale Of Two Tax Protests - Opinion - News : Lincoln Tribune : Instant, reliable and credible local news.
A Tale Of Two Tax Protests
Date 2009/6/7 1:28:12 | Topic: Opinion
By John Hood
RALEIGH About the dueling protests held recently in Raleigh on the subject of North Carolina taxes and spending, one can observe some similarities.
Both events occurred at the Legislative Building. Both focused media and public attention on the yawning budget gap the North Carolina General Assembly will have to close for the fiscal year that begins July 1. And both featured impassioned speeches about the budget.
But the similarities end there.
On June 2, representatives from some 80 nonprofits, spending lobbies, and left-wing groups held a press conference to state their opposition to a developing House version of the 2009-10 budget that would close the deficit without a tax increase. The liberals argued that unless the spending cuts are balanced with tax hikes (though they preferred the euphemism more revenues) the states progress would be set back by decades. Some predicted widespread social upheaval and even dead bodies if the legislature failed to raise taxes.
On June 3, approximately 3,000 taxpayers from across North Carolina gathered outside the Legislative Building to oppose new taxes and demand fiscal restraint and accountability from their elected officials. The Tar Heel conservatives participating in this Take Back Our State Tea Party, organized by the state chapter of Americans for Prosperity, argued that the escalating government budgets of the past two decades were never a sign of North Carolinas progress but were instead evidence of North Carolinas descent into fiscal recklessness, public corruption, and economic stagnation. Recognizing that households and businesses are already suffering income and job losses due to the recession, protesting taxpayers said it was time for government agencies to bring their spending appetites in line with economic reality, too.
Indeed, the fundamental difference between the two messages was realism. The liberal press conference lacked it. The conservative protest exemplified it.
The reason why many Democratic members of the NC House are loath to recommend a tax increase is that, realistically, it wont help the state budget picture very much but it will hurt the economy and their own political prospects, perhaps by a lot. ....
I understand the anxst some feel over the means to recover from the destruction the lack of regulation and criminal judgement in the financial sector has caused in our economy.
That is better placed in another thread.
The topic of this one is about truth or lying by the media.
No matter what we do in the end we must all have the same true facts to make those choices. I am no happier when information is scewed in support of my opinions as when it is slanted in favor of positions of which I am oposed.
June 06, 2009
An Outrage If Bush Had Proposed It
The NY Times covers a trial balloon that would provoke outrage from the left if Bush-Cheney had proposed it. However, as the Times tells it, the proposal has no sponsorship at all - apparently it just fell from the sky, or something. Here we go:
The Obama administration is considering a change in the law for the military commissions at the prison at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, that would clear the way for detainees facing the death penalty to plead guilty without a full trial.
The provision could permit military prosecutors to avoid airing the details of brutal interrogation techniques. It could also allow the five detainees who have been charged with the Sept. 11 attacks to achieve their stated goal of pleading guilty to gain what they have called martyrdom.
The proposal, in a draft of legislation that would be submitted to Congress, has not been publicly disclosed. It was circulated to officials under restrictions requiring secrecy. People who have read or been briefed on it said it had been presented to Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates by an administration task force on detention.
Ordinarily I have no qualms about capital punishment but in this case, sending some jihadists off to collect their virgins, or raisins, or whatever without what the world would view as a fair trial can only lead a public relations debacle of the sort I would expect the kinder, humbler (yet God-like!) Obama to avoid.
Apparently this procedure is acceptable in conventional trials but not in the military courts:
The provision would follow a recommendation of military prosecutors to clarify what they view as an oversight in the 2006 law that created the commissions. The law did not make clear if guilty pleas would be permitted in capital cases. Federal civilian courts and courts in most states with capital-punishment laws permit such pleas.
But American military justice law, which is the model for the military commission rules, bars members of the armed services who are facing capital charges from pleading guilty. Partly to assure fairness when execution is possible, court-martial prosecutors are required to prove guilt in a trial even against service members who want to plead guilty.
During a December tribunal proceeding in Guantánamo, the five detainees charged with coordinating the Sept. 11 attacks said they wanted to plead guilty. Military prosecutors argued that they should be permitted to do so. Defense lawyers argued that tribunals should follow American military law and bar the guilty pleas. The military judge has not yet made a decision.
And Obama's position? Who knows?!? The Times is utterly mystified:
The draft legislation includes other changes administration officials disclosed last month when President Obama said he would continue the controversial military commission system with changes that would increase detainees rights. It is not known whether the White House has approved the proposed death penalty provision. A White House spokesman declined to comment.
Sure, someone on the administration task force just snuck in that provision without anyone at the White House knowing or caring.
I can see the benefits to the Administration of this trial balloon - lefties will howl and Obama can disavow the idea, reassuring us with something to the effect of 'that was not the task force I knew'.
And when this plan is scrapped it will be just as well.
Posted by Tom Maguire on June 06, 2009 | Permalink
Now as to the media and 'truth' hmmm. Lots of links:
JustOneMinute: An Outrage If Bush Had Proposed It
June 06, 2009
An Outrage If Bush Had Proposed It
The NY Times covers a trial balloon that would provoke outrage from the left if Bush-Cheney had proposed it. However, as the Times tells it, the proposal has no sponsorship at all - apparently it just fell from the sky, or something. Here we go:
The Obama administration is considering a change in the law for the military commissions at the prison at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, that would clear the way for detainees facing the death penalty to plead guilty without a full trial.
The provision could permit military prosecutors to avoid airing the details of brutal interrogation techniques. It could also allow the five detainees who have been charged with the Sept. 11 attacks to achieve their stated goal of pleading guilty to gain what they have called martyrdom.
The proposal, in a draft of legislation that would be submitted to Congress, has not been publicly disclosed. It was circulated to officials under restrictions requiring secrecy. People who have read or been briefed on it said it had been presented to Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates by an administration task force on detention.
Ordinarily I have no qualms about capital punishment but in this case, sending some jihadists off to collect their virgins, or raisins, or whatever without what the world would view as a fair trial can only lead a public relations debacle of the sort I would expect the kinder, humbler (yet God-like!) Obama to avoid.
Apparently this procedure is acceptable in conventional trials but not in the military courts:
The provision would follow a recommendation of military prosecutors to clarify what they view as an oversight in the 2006 law that created the commissions. The law did not make clear if guilty pleas would be permitted in capital cases. Federal civilian courts and courts in most states with capital-punishment laws permit such pleas.
But American military justice law, which is the model for the military commission rules, bars members of the armed services who are facing capital charges from pleading guilty. Partly to assure fairness when execution is possible, court-martial prosecutors are required to prove guilt in a trial even against service members who want to plead guilty.
During a December tribunal proceeding in Guantánamo, the five detainees charged with coordinating the Sept. 11 attacks said they wanted to plead guilty. Military prosecutors argued that they should be permitted to do so. Defense lawyers argued that tribunals should follow American military law and bar the guilty pleas. The military judge has not yet made a decision.
And Obama's position? Who knows?!? The Times is utterly mystified:
The draft legislation includes other changes administration officials disclosed last month when President Obama said he would continue the controversial military commission system with changes that would increase detainees rights. It is not known whether the White House has approved the proposed death penalty provision. A White House spokesman declined to comment.
Sure, someone on the administration task force just snuck in that provision without anyone at the White House knowing or caring.
I can see the benefits to the Administration of this trial balloon - lefties will howl and Obama can disavow the idea, reassuring us with something to the effect of 'that was not the task force I knew'.
And when this plan is scrapped it will be just as well.
Posted by Tom Maguire on June 06, 2009 | Permalink
As you stated earlier single payer is a government administered and paid system. It would be like medicare, which is very successful and has a 3% cost for running the program. You pick your doctor, you buy your own meds, the system is funded federally.
Right now we pay more for less. I don't have "the plan" as no one does yet. If we had a medicare-like system we would get more for less.
Universal is privately held insurance. If you live in a state where you have compulsory driving insurance then you are familiar with "universal" coverage. The main purpose of a private insurance company is to make a profit. The easiest way to do that is to deny benefits. I have seen and heard hundreds of instances where someone paid the premiums and where denied coverage.
I don't want more and the worst of the same which universal insurance is.
This isn't that hard to figure out. Of the 37 industrialised countries all but one provide health care for its citizens. If these are failed programs as the insurance companies would like you to believe then there would be mass rioting in those countries.
The lobbiests get paid fortunes to keep it so. Turn off your TV and radio. Go look in the mirror. Do you see a person as deserving of as healthy a future as possible or someone that has to beg from people who profit when you are sick by denying you medical aid.
This is as much about respect and human dignity as anything.
Huggy....there are 10 countries in the world with populations over 100 mil.....how many of them have great healthcare systems?....and then compare the same countries and then tell me where you would rather be if you or a loved one was hurt seriously and needed help....what i am basically saying here is....all these so-called great health care systems are in countries with populations MUCH lower than ours,and are much smaller in size ....outside of Canada,but they only have to worry about,what,30 mill. people .....you guys are making it sound so much easier to do than what it really is.....
An MRI can cost $5,000 in this "great" system we have right now. I had one a few years ago. I know what a friggin scam it is. Its a big pulsing magnetic field and a computer program that decodes the resonance. I know a bit about electronics and manufacturing. That price is obscene. An MRI should cost about $200 for the half an hour it takes. 8-10 patients ...over $2000 a day ...more than a million a year...and that is just one item. I would estmate that medical malpractice ins is about a third of the cost or more for physicians and hospitals. Medicare can't legally negotiate with the pharms. This system is not "great". It isn't even good.
They claim that it would take a trillion plus over 10 years to pay for single payer. Iraq has cost us more than that in 5 years. If we can come up with money for this phoney "war on terrorism" then we should be able to find the scatch for something that will actually benefit the citizens and businesses of our country.
I am a businessman and hold firmly to the notion of free enterprise. I believe doctors and nurses should be paid well for their service and education. That said and with the exceptions already noted I think it is morally repugnant to profit from someone elses pain.
Huggy....there are 10 countries in the world with populations over 100 mil.....how many of them have great healthcare systems?....and then compare the same countries and then tell me where you would rather be if you or a loved one was hurt seriously and needed help....what i am basically saying here is....all these so-called great health care systems are in countries with populations MUCH lower than ours,and are much smaller in size ....outside of Canada,but they only have to worry about,what,30 mill. people .....you guys are making it sound so much easier to do than what it really is.....
An MRI can cost $5,000 in this "great" system we have right now. I had one a few years ago. I know what a friggin scam it is. Its a big pulsing magnetic field and a computer program that decodes the resonance. I know a bit about electronics and manufacturing. That price is obscene. An MRI should cost about $200 for the half an hour it takes. 8-10 patients ...over $2000 a day ...more than a million a year...and that is just one item. I would estmate that medical malpractice ins is about a third of the cost or more for physicians and hospitals. Medicare can't legally negotiate with the pharms. This system is not "great". It isn't even good.
They claim that it would take a trillion plus over 10 years to pay for single payer. Iraq has cost us more than that in 5 years. If we can come up with money for this phoney "war on terrorism" then we should be able to find the scatch for something that will actually benefit the citizens and businesses of our country.
I am a businessman and hold firmly to the notion of free enterprise. I believe doctors and nurses should be paid well for their service and education. That said and with the exceptions already noted I think it is morally repugnant to profit from someone elses pain.
Many doctors have their own practice. They are businessmen, too. Are you saying that businessmen should have a ceiling placed on their potential incomes?
more BULLSHITNow as to the media and 'truth' hmmm. Lots of links:
JustOneMinute: An Outrage If Bush Had Proposed It
June 06, 2009
An Outrage If Bush Had Proposed It
The NY Times covers a trial balloon that would provoke outrage from the left if Bush-Cheney had proposed it. However, as the Times tells it, the proposal has no sponsorship at all - apparently it just fell from the sky, or something. Here we go:
The Obama administration is considering a change in the law for the military commissions at the prison at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, that would clear the way for detainees facing the death penalty to plead guilty without a full trial.Ordinarily I have no qualms about capital punishment but in this case, sending some jihadists off to collect their virgins, or raisins, or whatever without what the world would view as a fair trial can only lead a public relations debacle of the sort I would expect the kinder, humbler (yet God-like!) Obama to avoid.
The provision could permit military prosecutors to avoid airing the details of brutal interrogation techniques. It could also allow the five detainees who have been charged with the Sept. 11 attacks to achieve their stated goal of pleading guilty to gain what they have called martyrdom.
The proposal, in a draft of legislation that would be submitted to Congress, has not been publicly disclosed. It was circulated to officials under restrictions requiring secrecy. People who have read or been briefed on it said it had been presented to Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates by an administration task force on detention.
Apparently this procedure is acceptable in conventional trials but not in the military courts:
The provision would follow a recommendation of military prosecutors to clarify what they view as an oversight in the 2006 law that created the commissions. The law did not make clear if guilty pleas would be permitted in capital cases. Federal civilian courts and courts in most states with capital-punishment laws permit such pleas.And Obama's position? Who knows?!? The Times is utterly mystified:
But American military justice law, which is the model for the military commission rules, bars members of the armed services who are facing capital charges from pleading guilty. Partly to assure fairness when execution is possible, court-martial prosecutors are required to prove guilt in a trial even against service members who want to plead guilty.
During a December tribunal proceeding in Guantánamo, the five detainees charged with coordinating the Sept. 11 attacks said they wanted to plead guilty. Military prosecutors argued that they should be permitted to do so. Defense lawyers argued that tribunals should follow American military law and bar the guilty pleas. The military judge has not yet made a decision.
The draft legislation includes other changes administration officials disclosed last month when President Obama said he would continue the controversial military commission system with changes that would increase detainees rights. It is not known whether the White House has approved the proposed death penalty provision. A White House spokesman declined to comment.Sure, someone on the administration task force just snuck in that provision without anyone at the White House knowing or caring.
I can see the benefits to the Administration of this trial balloon - lefties will howl and Obama can disavow the idea, reassuring us with something to the effect of 'that was not the task force I knew'.
And when this plan is scrapped it will be just as well.
Posted by Tom Maguire on June 06, 2009 | Permalink
I can see you have an agenda this morning. I'm not sure what it is but it doesn't appear clear it is on topic. "Media Lying"
As to the spelling errors..this site offers a spell check with strings attached. Otherwise ones on ones own. If minor distractions sidetrack your attention I recommend you try zoloft or other medication that helps focus.