Learning From Hitler

[mememe]

1. To mememe: Number 1. makes no sense at all.

2. Gulag statistics came from Soviet records. That makes them complete fabrications. There is no way anyone else could get accurate numbers, or the brutal conditions that existed in Gulag, or an accurate percentage of “political prisoners.” Stalin sure as hell wasn’t letting anyone snoop around. Ditto Stalin’s successors.

3. Prior to June 22, 1941 Hitler was a prince of a fellow to Communists the world over

4. because of the non-aggression pact the two dictators had agreed upon in 1939.

5. 90 percent of America’s went to fighting the war in Europe:

6.

In November, 1943, Joseph Stalin, Winston Churchill and Franklin D. Roosevelt met together in Teheran, Iran, to discuss military strategy and post-war Europe. Ever since the Soviet Union had entered the war, Stalin had been demanding that the Allies open-up a second front in Europe. Churchill and Roosevelt argued that any attempt to land troops in Western Europe would result in heavy casualties. Until the Soviet's victory at Stalingrad in January, 1943, Stalin had feared that without a second front, Germany would defeat them.


7. Had Hitler never double-crossed Stalin the Soviet Union would have remained neutral for the duration. As far as Stalin was concerned in 1939 Hitler could have the rest of Europe so long as he stayed out of those countries the Soviets coveted. Stalin knew he couldn’t stop Hitler anyway; so he thought he got a good deal with the Soviet-Nazi Non-Aggression Pact. Stalin was basically correct. Had the war been fought between Germany and the Soviet Union alone Germany would have won hands down.

8. The rest of your nonsense is too convoluted to respond to.

1. The fact that after two defeats Japan had to abstain from attacking the Soviet Union make no sense to you? Then you need to re-examine your understanding of "sense".

2. Brilliant! So, the OFFICIAL records are bollox? Then what your claims of "millions of billions" of "victims" are based on? Wishful thinking or speculations?

What your claims of Stalin's brutality are based on? The numbers of "GULAG victims" that are based on your wishful thinking?!

"Political prisoners" is yet another crud devised by your propaganda: there was no such article under the law -- "political"! What your propaganda merchants call "political" were very particular crimes such as TREASON, TERRORISM, ANTI-SOVIET AGITATION, SABOTAGE!
Tell me what would happen to a terrorist under the US law? What would happen to a traitor under the US law?

3. Ford was a Communist?! Bush was a Communist?! I didn't know that! Are you sure?

4. Shall I remind you what happened prior to Soviet-German non-aggression pact? I mean, like UK and France giving Czechoslovakia to Hitler and Poland? Polish-Hitler negotiations of cooperation in aggression against the Soviet Union? UK-Hitler agreement to divide spheres of influence under which UK and France let Hitler take over Poland?

Btw, what possesses you to call Stalin a "dictator"? Western tradition?

5. Approximately 16 million men and women served in the US Military during WW 2. Out of that number only 7 million were sent into action! What "90% of America’s" are you talking about?!

6. The turning point of WW2 was the SOVIET victory in Stalingrad! Only after that, when US and Britain realised that the Soviet Union is not going to be defeated, they decided to claim at least some of European territory: opened the second front and negotiated their piece of the post-war world!

7. What duration?! Do they teach you anything at school? The whole of the WW2 was designed to destroy the Soviet Union! The USSR was Hitler's PRIME TARGET -- and he never made a secret out of it!
Britain and France knew it, and they decided to use it to do away with both of their historic geopolitial competitors: USSR/Russia and Germany, by making them fight each other, and then move for the kill on whoever will end up a winner.

*. France, USSR and Czechoslovakia had an agreement of mutual assistance.
*. In 1939 the USSR offered France to honour the agreement and defend Czechoslovakia against Hitler. France refused.
*. On Hitler's demand (he was in need of natural resources, industrially developped land with loyal population) UK and France put pressure on Czechoslovakian government not to accept Soviet help.
*. The Soviet Union offered military help to Czechoslovakia, disregarding France’s position, provided Poland or Romania let Soviet troops pass through its territory. Poland and Romania refused.
*. In 1939 UK, France, Germany and Italy (Czechoslovakian representatives were not invited) divided Czechoslovakia between Germany and Poland.
*. Poland with the encouragment of Britain was discussing with Hitler a free passage for German troops through its territory towards the USSR in return for Belarus and Ukraine.
*. Poland and Germany fell out over a "Dantsug corridor". Poland was encouraged by its mutual assistance agreements with UK and France and started testing Hitler's patience.
*. The USSR offered Poland to sign an agreement of mutual assistance. Poland refused.
*. Germany signed a agreement with UK where they divided zones of influence: Germany was given the East of Europe. In seperate talks (Wohltat, Sir Horace Wilson, Hudson), Britain was to refrain from helping Poland, thus to enable Hitler to get on the borders with the Soviet Union in exchange for Hitler not extending his appetites to the West.
*. UK and France sabotaged signing an agreement with the USSR.
*. After the signing of an agreement between the Soviet Union, UK and France was sabotaged the USSR signed a non-aggression pact with Germany to buy so much needed time to finish military reforms and re-arm.
*. When Hitler attacked Poland Britain DECLARED war on Germany, but done nothing beyond declaration.
*. Only when Hitler attacked France the following year (instead of continuing eastwards into the USSR) UK became actively involved against Germany.


8. What, you don't want to remind us how US was supporting Hitler way into 1944? Why?

 

[whitehall]

It's interesting to note that Hitler developed his criminal hold on Germany right under the nose of the FDR administration. FDR refused to alter US immigration policies even after it became obvious that Jews were being persecuted and would surely die unless they could emigrate to other countries including the US. When FDR appointed a college professor to be ambassador to Germany just before the War the ambassador reported atrocities and all the FDR administration seemed interested in was pestering Berlin for war reparations from WW1.

 

[Flanders]

It's interesting to note that Hitler developed his criminal hold on Germany right under the nose of the FDR administration. FDR refused to alter US immigration policies even after it became obvious that Jews were being persecuted and would surely die unless they could emigrate to other countries including the US. When FDR appointed a college professor to be ambassador to Germany just before the War the ambassador reported atrocities and all the FDR administration seemed interested in was pestering Berlin for war reparations from WW1.

To whitehall: Then there is the German liner MS St. Louis carrying 937 Jewish refugees who were not allowed to land in Canada, Cuba, or here:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_yGf5UBlE8&feature=player_detailpage]Trailer: When Canada Said No: The Abandoned Jews of the MS St. Louis - YouTube[/ame]

I often think today’s open-borders, in part, is a perverse guilt trip for the St. Louis. Open-borders and the St. Louis are not remotely connected.

 

[jillian]

First Flounders, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and Castro are all in the same boat when it comes to evil!

Second, you adhor Socialism, but the National SOCIALIST Worker's Prty was a socialist movement that believed STRONGLY in a LARGE CENTRAL CONTROLLING BIG-BROTHER GOVERNMENT!!! SOCIALIST TOTALITARIAN DICTATORSHIPS (which really what communist is) would have been spring up EVERYWHERE!!! A follow like you believes NAZI German victory would have been better. State your real reason! You believe the absolute falsity that (1) The Holocaust never happened and (2) Jews control everything from the world governments, banks, media and military! That is the reason you think Hitler is a swell guy.

Third, Hitler is JUSTIFIABLY VIEWED worse, because he invaded all his neighbors and started a WORLD WAR!!! The worse destruction in WORLD HISTORY!!!

Lastly, are you really saying, Britian and the US weren't beacons of freedom, capitalism and prosperity during in the 40s? If so your a bigger fool than I thought.

*sigh* Nazi's were NOT socialists... that is rightwing revisionism. they were fascists. there are similarities between the two because they were totalitarian societies. but just because two things have *something*n in common does not mean one of these things is like the other.

it's not even worth entertaining this type of discussion though...

the effort to somehow make hitler a 'leftie' is counter to reality.

 

[mememe]

It's interesting to note that Hitler developed his criminal hold on Germany right under the nose of the FDR administration. FDR refused to alter US immigration policies even after it became obvious that Jews were being persecuted and would surely die unless they could emigrate to other countries including the US. When FDR appointed a college professor to be ambassador to Germany just before the War the ambassador reported atrocities and all the FDR administration seemed interested in was pestering Berlin for war reparations from WW1.

FDR administration as well as the US itself were of no major significance at the time.

And what makes you think that Hitler developed a CRIMINAL hold on Germany?

As for Jews... I'll repeat myself:
After Nazis started printing their own banknotes that were not supported by gold, and took Germany out of the clatches of international bankers who were mostly Jewish, the US Jewish financial clans of Wall Street declared war on Germany on behalf of all Jews.

Prior to that "war" there were no mass mistreatments of Jews in Germany, even Germany's Jewish Central Association (Verein) was writing in it's statement: "The responsible government authorities are unaware of the threatening situation... we do not believe our German fellow citizens will let themselves be carried away into committing excesses against the Jews."
Even though there were no persecution of Jews in Germany of that time (and Verein confirmed it), Untermyer still made his famous speech where he first voiced an allegation that Hitler was on a mission to exterminate the Jews.

But these "excesses" came as the Wall Street continued pushing through with their economic war on Germany...

Economic war of Jews on Germany brought about an allience of Nazis and Zionists who saw mass reprisals against Jews in responce to the "war" as an opportunity to encourage European Jews to flee to Palestine -- a Transfer Agreement.

But in order to continue with emigration of Jews to Palestine, Zionists needed Nazis to continue with their persecution of Jews on one hand, but on the other -- Zionists needed German economy to be stable and Nazis to remain in power... That's how Zionists came to boycot the "war on Germany" they themselves started in 1933.

Since then and all through the war Jewish bankers and industrialists were supporting Hitler.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

“Who Lost China.” is an ongoing debate.

no it is not!!!!! Who is losing Syria is same question.

Of course liberals lost both

If Jefferson's shot heard 'round the world was not being blocked by Democrats the world would know our huge success was based on freedom from liberal government, but because of Democrats most people are looking to use revolution to establish some liberal version of Hitler Stalin Mao Pol Pot or George 111.

Indeed all the problems of world history can be laid at the liberals' bloody feet

 

[mememe]

If Jefferson's shot heard 'round the world was not being blocked by Democrats the world would know our huge success was based on freedom from liberal government, but because of Democrats most people are looking to use revolution to establish some liberal version of Hitler Stalin Mao Pol Pot or George 111.

Indeed all the problems of world history can be laid at the liberals' bloody feet

and again you are mixing everything together...

The reason the West hates Stalin so much is because he put an end to the spread of MILITANT LIBERALISM in the former Russian Empire/USSR. Stalin put an end to TROTSKISM -- an ideology that has currently overrun the West!

 

[Flanders]

Indeed all the problems of world history can be laid at the liberals' bloody feet

To EdwardBaiamonte: Certainly the history of the 19th & 20th centuries. All of history if you mean the parasite mentality?

 

[there4eyeM]

Nazi Germany was totally overrun and every tiny detail laid bare. This has not happened in Russia or China. We haven't had the opportunity to pore over all the facts.
That said, I have the impression that the massive elimination of huge population segments is pretty universally deplored in the west.
I think Germany is a special case because it is so similar to our cultures (American, French, English, etc.) and we are horrified that our very cousins could act this way, whereas the others are more 'foreign'. It would be good to keep in mind the closeness and that what the Germans did was not different from the rest of Europe (including North America), only raised to an industrial level.

 

[daveman]

Really? How?

Btw, where would you put Clinton, Bush, Obama with regard to your understanding of evil? Remind me, who ordered to erase CIVILIAN Dresden off the face of the Earth? ?Who ordered to use atomic weapons on civilians of Japan? And what was that with napalm in Vietnam?

So you would have invaded 'the Home island' of Japan, killed millions of them and millions of your 'fellow Americans', to win WW2.

Napalm in Vietnam, I'm not sure what to call you now. How about Hanoi MEME? The decisions made by those people (President Truman and not sure about Vietnam) saved lives.

Its only your foolish and twisted mind that makes those decisions look wrong

1. The USSR defeated Japan TWICE in 1930-s without "killing millions". US dropping atomic bombs had nothing to do with "saving American lives"; it was about a) testing a new weapon on unsuspecting CIVILIANS; b) defeating Japan BEFORE the USSR got there, thus claiming it for US;

Yes, it's been awesome having Japan as a client state, utterly subservient to the US.

Oh, wait...

c) showing the USSR "who's the daddy".

2. Two questions for you: what US was doing in Vietnam in the first place? Is it OK' with you to use chemical weapons, especially on civilians?

Napalm is not a chemical weapon. Don't be dumb.

 

[Sallow]

Another laughable thread about "history" that has nothing to do with real history.

China and Russia went commie because under the rule of nobility they were starving to death. That's what happens with top down economics. The top takes everything and leaves the bottom do die. The caveat is..that people don't die willingly.

That SHOULD be the takeaway. But to conservatives, the takeaway is the aftermath. What happened before the respective revolutions goes down the memory hole.

 

[mememe]

I have the impression that the massive elimination of huge population segments is pretty universally deplored in the west.
.

And yet, it is the West that does it -- the elimination of huge population segments ! Still!

 

[mememe]

Napalm is not a chemical weapon. .

It is.

But it is not covered by the Chemical Weapons Convention, because its destructive effects are primarily due to fire.

 

[daveman]

I have the impression that the massive elimination of huge population segments is pretty universally deplored in the west.
.

And yet, it is the West that does it -- the elimination of huge population segments ! Still!

MURDER BY COMMUNISM

I know, I know:

 

[daveman]

Napalm is not a chemical weapon. .

It is.

But it is not covered by the Chemical Weapons Convention, because its destructive effects are primarily due to fire.

Then it's not a chemical weapon.

According to what you're using instead of logic, conventional explosives are chemical weapons, too -- because they're made out of chemicals!

 

[mememe]

MURDER BY COMMUNISM

Care to go over each one of them? Or are you not the one for questioning your propaganda mantras?

 

[mememe]

Napalm is not a chemical weapon. .

It is.

But it is not covered by the Chemical Weapons Convention, because its destructive effects are primarily due to fire.

Then it's not a chemical weapon.

!

Are you really incapable of understanding the difference between a "chemical weapon" and a "Chemical Weapons Convention"?

 

[daveman]

MURDER BY COMMUNISM

Care to go over each one of them? Or are you not the one for questioning your propaganda mantras?

How about you disprove each figure?

Communism is murderous. There is no rational way to deny it.

But irrational people will anyway.

 

[daveman]

It is.

But it is not covered by the Chemical Weapons Convention, because its destructive effects are primarily due to fire.

Then it's not a chemical weapon.

!

Are you really incapable of understanding the difference between a "chemical weapon" and a "Chemical Weapons Convention"?

If napalm was a chemical weapon, it would be covered by the Chemical Weapons Convention.

Do you know what a chemical weapon is?

 

[Londoner]

This is a scary but instructive post. It proves the ideological nature of movement conservatism, which ignores history in favor of pure propaganda.

The author of this thread should research Jewish Bolshevism. And while he's at it, he should study Hitler's war with Russia.

"The label "Judeo-Bolshevism" was used in Nazi Germany to equate Jews with communists, implying that the communist movement served Jewish interests and/or that all Jews were communists. According to Hannah Arendt, it was "the most efficient fiction of Nazi Propaganda". In Poland before World War II, Żydokomuna was used in the same way to allege that the Jews were conspiring with the USSR to capture Poland. According to André Gerrits, "The myth of Jewish Communism was one of the most popular and widespread political prejudices in the first half of the 20th century, in Eastern Europe in particular."

Meaning: Nazi Germany's hatred of the communists was so deep that they tied the Jews to that hatred in order to make it easier to persecute them. Hatred of Jews and communists became one. The other thing Hitler hated was Liberals because of their multicultural tolerance of non-Germans. Hitler's singular obsession was protecting and saving and cultivating the Real Germany, which Liberals - in his view - had destroyed by over-assimilating the Jews to positions of power within finance, politics, and the culture industry.

Hitler's criticism of the French Revolution were identical to those of the father of Conservatism, Edmund Burke. Both men thought that Enlightenment Liberalism, by favoring the rights and dignity of man in the abstract, contained a flaccid universalism that destroyed the organic structure and pride of a people. Meaning: Hitler didn't think all men and nations were created equal. He didn't think all languages were created equal. He didn't think all religions were created equal. He thought Christians were better than Jews. He and Germany felt superior - as do Americans - to the Soviets. He believed that if a nation didn't protect its borders, language and culture from outsiders like the Jews and Soviets, that the nation would die, to be replaced by the Liberal state where everyone is equal and nobody is special.

Hitler believed that the Liberalism of the French Revolution deeply threatened Germany's Christian folk religion and traditions - the very things that tied people together and gave them something to defend; something worth dying for. He thought that Liberalism, by claiming that German language and traditions were no more special than any other, was the first step to losing Germany. He was emphatically on the Right, and no serious historian has ever claimed any different. He was not a fiscal Libertarian (like American conservatives), but he was deeply conservative when it came to preserving the Real Germany.

The thread is doing exactly what Hitler did - only it ties liberals rather than Jews to the communist demons. This is very old and tired propaganda.

The author of this thread needs to turn off Rightwing propaganda and study history.

Hitler hated Jews and Communists and Liberal tolerance more than anything else. All of his complaints came from the Right, from the desire to preserve what was special about his Germany - the Real Germany. Like the American Right and their constant call to Real Americans, Hitler wanted to save Real Germans from external contagions which, he claimed, were destroying the Real Germany.

(Wow, just wow)

(Help. The person who started this thread probably votes - and he lacks information.)

At least study the völkisch movement. It is pure conservatism. It seeks to preserve what is special, unique and great about a nation. It doesn't think all people and languages and cultures are equal. It is the literal opposite of Liberalism. The Tea Party is the American version of the völkisch movement only insofar as they think Liberal multiculturalism is destroying the Real America.

(God help us)