Learning From Hitler

[SayMyName]

The one thing I know about Hitler is that I am tired of hearing about him. There were before Hitler menaces just like him, there were those that came after him, and there are many more that, unfortunately will come again. The only difference, for some reason, is we have a media love affair with hating him, all the while blinding us to those just like him that still lurk in every age amongst us, commiting attrocities on a scale, large or small, that we allow for them. They come in all creeds, colors, races, and religious beliefs, though we never allow ourselves to admit it when they may fall within our own ranks.

 

[dilloduck]

I don't know much about Mao, neither do you.

But I would like to see numbers with the source in support of your claim regarding Stalin.

Anyone doubting the Stalin and Mao massacres should be sitting in prison with the holocaust deniers.

You sound like a parrot.

Can you stop throwing mantras at me and support your statement with numbers and SOURCES!

How dare you challenge what is common knowledge ? GET THEE TO PRISON, HATER !

 

[mememe]

How dare you challenge what is common knowledge ? GET THEE TO PRISON, HATER !

Jawohl, mein kommandant!

 

[daveman]

You had a chance to disprove the research.

You failed.

When?

I agreed to take it in turns. After all, it's YOUR crap we suppose to look through!

You refused.

I posted an image from an article, plus a link from the article, which is full of scholarly research to back it up.

You got a whiny that someone dared to criticize Communism and its murderous reality.

I've been saying it for years, and you do nothing but prove me right: Communists are stupid.

 

[daveman]

I don't know much about Mao, neither do you.

But I would like to see numbers with the source in support of your claim regarding Stalin.

Anyone doubting the Stalin and Mao massacres should be sitting in prison with the holocaust deniers.

You sound like a parrot.

Can you stop throwing mantras at me and support your statement with numbers and SOURCES!

I did. You got all whiny.

 

[daveman]

All right, knowing your tradition of holding discussion by throwing slogans and mantras around, I am not holding my breath in anticipation of you coming up with anything even remotely intelligible...

I have to repeat myself for the third time:

According to OFFICIAL records
At the peak of "repressions" -- 1937 the whole system of GULAG contained 1.196.369 people. Out of that number 87% were criminals. The remaining %% were there for commiting counter-revolutionary crimes: acts of terrorism, sabotage, anti-Soviet agitation, treason.

In 1947 GULAG contained 1.7 million inmates, out of that number -- 40% criminals, the rest were former Nazi police, trators, Nazi agents, OUN/UPA, Vlasovtsy, Forest Brothers and other "inocent" creatures.

The maximum number GULAG ever had was in 1950 -- 2 561 351; out of that number 77% were criminals, the rest: see paragraph above.


Between 1921 (before the USSR was formed! before the civil war was over!) and 1964 (10 years after Stalin's death!) for counter-revolutionary crimes (acts of terrorism, sabotage, anti-Soviet agitation, treason) were sentenced to death 642 980 people!!!!!

There is for you a little "picture" from a document

Have a look at the numbers and find me your usual "millions of billions" of "victims"!

And there is something else for you co contemplate:

now, in peaceful times in democratic and free USA the inmate population is 2.35 million EXCLUDING Guantanamo and other CIA prisons! In just one year in US 1304 people were sentenced to death! (according to US death penalty information centre)

Soviet "criminals" were those whom the State didn't like for various reasons.

Remember, eating food you grew on a kollektive farm was a crime.

Communists are stupid.

 

[mememe]

I posted an image from an article,

I can see that you posted "an image" to some bullshit that even the article can't explain.

All right, Dave... I also posted "an image" of an official document and some translation for company, so you can memorise the data and avoid making an ass of yourself in future.

 

[mememe]

Soviet "criminals" were those whom the State didn't like for various reasons.

.

Dave! Darling! Are you suggesting that the Soviet Union had a perfect society where the only crime was "someone did not like the state" (whatever that means to you)?!

Do you mean to say, that in the Soviet Union no one committed murders, robberies, no one was stealing or behaving disorderly in public; no one was driving carelessly or damaging someone's property???!!!

Is that what you think -- the USSR was a perfect society?!

 

[Uncensored2008]

1. Is that what they teach you in schools?!

Sadly, no.

They teach the idiotic notion that our involvement in that European war was vital.

It wasn't.

Why do you think Without U.S. Intervention, Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union would have destroyed each other?

Because they were relatively evenly matched.

Because of lend lease?! Have you ever compared the data for it with the USSR war time production?

Lend lease was one aspect, but U.S. forces occupying part of the German war machine was another.

And what about the fact US was financing and supplying Hitler with raw materials and military equipment until 1944? Do you know about that?

What about the fact that your "fact" is utterly false?

"Bad trade"?!
US survived its economic catastrophe thanks WW2, and built itself into an empire!

War economies tend to create a boom, this is true. But the cost in lives was nowhere near worth it. Also the misery caused by the Evil Empire that could have been spared.

2. I think, you forgot few more "0" on the end. Come to that, 65 million Stalin had for his kebabs for breakfast! The true figure is million of billion of trillions!

I'll go with the University of Hawaii study on democide. They are considered authoritative.

Murder By Government--Democide

Where do you get your numbers from?! One should have no brain whatsoever just to repeat it, no wonder you, people, are so easily manipulated!

Do you use heavy drugs, or are you just an alcoholic?

 

[mememe]

1. They teach the idiotic notion that our involvement in that European war was vital.
It wasn't.


2. Because they were relatively evenly matched.


3. Lend lease was one aspect, but U.S. forces occupying part of the German war machine was another.


4. What about the fact that your "fact" is utterly false?


5. War economies tend to create a boom, this is true. But the cost in lives was nowhere near worth it.


6. I'll go with the University of Hawaii study on democide. They are considered authoritative.

1. It was vital for US: it pulled US out of an economic near-collapse.

2. Err?.. With such analytical skills, I hope you work for Pentagon!

3. The second front was open only after it became clear that the Soviet Union will roll through Europe and the whole of Germany. UK and US were eager not to let it happen.

4. So, they didn't teach you that at school? I wonder, why?
From an article written by Paul Plaganis (Legislative Representative T.C.U. District #861 Albany, NY) based on a report presented to the Committee of the Judiciary, Subcommittee on Antitrust and Monopoly, United States Senate, February 26, 1974, United States Government Printing Office, Washington, 1974, pp. 16-24.
“In 1938 Ford opened a truck assembly plant in Berlin whose "real purpose," according to U.S. Army Intelligence, was producing "troop transport-type" vehicles for the Wehrmacht. That year Ford's chief executive received the Nazi German Eagle (first class)....

in September 1939 GM and Ford subsidiaries built nearly 90 percent of the armored "mule" 3- ton half-trucks and more than 70 percent of the Reich's medium and heavy-duty trucks. These vehicles, according to American intelligence reports, served as "the backbone of the German Army transportation system."....

After the cessation of hostilities, GM and Ford demanded reparations from the U.S. Government for wartime damages sustained by their Axis facilities as a result of Allied bombing...Ford received a little less than $1 million, primarily as a result of damages sustained by its military truck complex at Cologne...”
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...0IDgBQ&usg=AFQjCNFrYrco08D5R_XZvfr7EmMoS3MiSw

“Ford vehicles were crucial to the revolutionary Nazi military strategy of blitzkrieg. Of the 350,000 trucks used by the motorized German Army as of 1942, roughly one-third were Ford-made. The Schneider report states that when American troops reached the European theater, "Ford trucks prominently present in the supply lines of the Wehrmacht were understandably an unpleasant sight to men in our Army." Indeed, the Cologne plant proved to be so important to the Reich's war effort that the Allies bombed it on several occasions. A secret 1944 US Air Force "Target Information Sheet" on the factory said that for the previous five years it had been "geared for war production on a high level."
“…the Nazis never nationalized Ford's German property… Dearborn maintained its 52 percent share through the duration of the war…. By 1943 half of Ford Werke's work force comprised foreign captives, including French, Russians, Ukrainians and Belgians. In August of 1944 a squad of SS men brought fifteen prisoners from the Buchenwald concentration camp to Ford Werke.”
Major U.S. multi-nationals were also very well represented in the later Heinrich Himmler Circle and made cash contributions to the S.S. (the Sonder Konto S) up to 1944 — while World War II was in progress.

Almost a quarter of the 1944 Sonder Konto S contributions came from subsidiaries of International Telephone and Telegraph, represented by Kurt von Schröder. The 1943 payments from I.T.T. subsidiaries to the Special Account were as follows:

Mix & Genest A.G. 5,000 RM
C. Lorenz AG 20,000 RM
Felten & Guilleaume 25,000 RM
Kurt von Schroder 16,000 RM

And the 1944 payments were:
Mix & Genest A.G. 5,000 RM
C. Lorenz AG 20,000 RM
Felten & Guilleaume 20,000 RM
Kurt von Schroder 16,000 RM

Sosthenes Behn of International Telephone and Telegraph transferred wartime control of Mix & Genest, C. Lorenz, and the other Standard Telephone interests in Germany to Kurt von Schroder — who was a founding member of the Keppler Circle and organizer and treasurer of Himmler's Circle of Friends.”

“Collaboration between American businessmen and Nazis in Axis Europe was paralleled by protection of Nazi interests in the United States. In 1939 American I.G. was renamed General Aniline & Film, with General Dyestuffs acting as its exclusive sales agent in the U.S. These names effectively disguised the fact that American I.G. (or General Aniline & Film) was an important producer of major war materials, including atabrine, magnesium, and synthetic rubber….

An American citizen, Halbach, became president of General Dyestuffs in 1930 and acquired majority control in 1939 from Dietrich A. Schmitz, a director of American I.G. and brother of Hermann Schmitz, director of I.G. Farben in Germany and chairman of the board of American I.G. until the outbreak of war in 1939. After Pearl Harbor, the U.S. Treasury blocked Halbach's bank accounts. In June 1942 the Alien Property Custodian seized Halbach's stock in General Dyestuffs and took over the firm as an enemy corporation under the Trading with the Enemy Act. Subsequently, the Alien Property Custodian appointed a new board of directors to act as trustee for the duration of the war. These actions were reasonable and usual practice, but when we probe under the surface another and quite abnormal story emerges.

Between 1942 and 1945 Halbach was nominally a consultant to General Dyestuffs. In fact Halbach ran the company, at $82,000 per year, Louis Johnson, former Assistant Secretary of War, was appointed president of General Dyestuffs by the 'U.S. Government, for which he received $75,000 a year. Louis Johnson attempted to bring pressure to bear on the U.S. Treasury to unblock Halbach's blocked funds and allow Halbach to develop policies contrary to the interests of the U.S., then at war with Germany. The argument used to get Halbach's bank accounts unblocked was that Halbach was running the company and that the Government-appointed board of directors "would have been lost without Mr. Halbach's knowledge."
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...74DYBQ&usg=AFQjCNHjDZIy0oKUB4IlXeny_fJn50hlrQ


“George Bush's grandfather, the late US senator Prescott Bush, was a director and shareholder of companies that profited from their involvement with the financial backers of Nazi Germany….
Bush was also on the board of at least one of the companies that formed part of a multinational network of front companies to allow Thyssen to move assets around the world. ..
More tantalising are Bush's links to the Consolidated Silesian Steel Company (CSSC), based in mineral rich Silesia on the German-Polish border. During the war, the company made use of Nazi slave labour from the concentration camps, including Auschwitz.”
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...8oGABg&usg=AFQjCNFqGZbquPu6PD39S27TRcpdMSE71Q


5. To whom?! Your financial, industrial and military-industrial elites managed to re-built their empires out of WW2!


6. "They are considered authoritative" by whom? By US propaganda consumers?
I asked you the SOURCES of your numbers! The PRIME sources! You know why you don't want to name them? Because the figure of "65 million" was thrown into circulation by Soldhenitsun -- a FICTION WRITER!!!!!!!!
That's the prime source of all your "authoritative historians" -- FICTION! A FIGMENT of someone's IMAGINATION!

Have a look at the figures for demographic changes in Russian Empire/Soviet Union, and show me your "murdered 65 million"!

 

[Uncensored2008]

^^Same old rehashed bullshit that has been rebutted a thousand times

 

[mememe]

^^Same old rehashed bullshit that has been rebutted a thousand times

In other words: you had no clue that your country was helping both sides in WW2, and it hurts; you realised that "millions of billions of victims of Stalin" is a lot of bullshit, and you were (still are) fed crudely made propaganda that has no barring on reality, but it came as a shock to your system...

That's OK'... Maybe in time you will learn to think...

 

[Uncensored2008]

In other words: you had no clue that your country was helping both sides in WW2,

In other words, Ford is not the U.S. Government, your timeline is false, and the Communist propaganda you post is laughably false.

Ford America totally divested, by law, fro Fordwerks in 1941.

{All of these efforts failed to prevent the government from appointing executives at Ford in Germany who were more attuned and indebted to the Nazi Party than loyal to the company. A few members of management did retain their positions through the period spanning the Weimar Republic, the early Nazi period, and the war. But the power within the company clearly shifted from pre-Nazi or non-Nazi managers to government-sponsored managers, most pointedly Robert Schmidt, who was selected and appointed by the Nazi government. (Because, I believe, Fordwerke's senior management did not contest Schmidt's appointment, the company was officially allowed to remain under nominal American ownership.)

Who was in charge of Fordwerke when it used slave labor (it is now generally accepted that this occurred between 1941 and 1945)? By the time that slave labor was introduced, Fordwerke was clearly under the direct control of the Nazi government, though administered through the company headquarters in Cologne (albeit by Robert Schmidt). The meetings of the board of directors had already been suspended, and didn't resume until after the war. Although the American parent company desperately sought to retain control of their German assets, they failed to do so. Fordwerke became an instrument of the Nazi state. I certainly found no evidence that American management ever sanctioned the use of slave labor or that it even knew of the use of slave labor.}

The Ford Motor Company and the Third Reich

and it hurts; you realised that "millions of billions of victims of Stalin" is a lot of bullshit, and you were (still are) fed crudely made propaganda that has no barring on reality, but it came as a shock to your system...

ROFL

Ah, you're a holocaust denier - a lying fuck of a Communist, how unique.

Stalin butchered around 65 million peace time civilians; including about 90% of the Kulaks in the forced starvation of the collectivization efforts.

Your attempts to alter history to a story more favorable to Communism is disgusting. Holocaust deniers such as you are the lowest form of scum. You piss on the graves of the victims and bare the stain of their murders by your attempt justify the horror you lie to cover.

That's OK'... Maybe in time you will learn to think...

I think, you're a pile of shit.

 

[mememe]

1. In other words, Ford is not the U.S. Government,

2. Stalin butchered around 65 million peace time civilians;

3. including about 90% of the Kulaks

4. in the forced starvation of the collectivization efforts.

1. So?!

Ford was US citizen! And his companies remained his throughout the war! Nazis NEVER had full control over Ford production!

US FINANCIAL CLANS were financing Hitler till 1944 through various schemes!

Are you to tell me US government had no control over its citizens?! Bollox! US politicos were whores as much then as they are now, and they depended on financial/industrial elites as much then as they are now. That's why they did nothing (apart from lip service) to stop US power clans from helping Hitler; and after the war, made US tax payers to pay Ford and Bush clans COMPENSATION for damage their businesses sustained in Germany at the hands of Americans US politicos sent to fight Nazis!


2. I provided you with official statistics for USSR penal system and with demographic chart. Show me WHERE your "65 million" fit in! And name me the PRIME source for that number (I hope you understand what "prime source" means).

3. "Kulak" is a "wealthy peasant". Kulaks who were committing crimes such as murder or damage to the property were tried for these crimes; and included into statistics I provided.
The absolute majority of "kulaks" either stayed in their respective villages or moved into towns!


4. Did Stalin also force Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Germany, Hungary, Britain, USA into starvation? Because, you see, all countries named above suffered from famine at the very time the USSR did.

 

[Uncensored2008]

1. So?!

Ford was US citizen! And his companies remained his throughout the war! Nazis NEVER had full control over Ford production!

In fact, you're lying. The regime assumed complete control as early as 39'

US FINANCIAL CLANS were financing Hitler till 1944 through various schemes!

Oh yes, you floated the old Bush lie.

Damn, that's sure original.

Are you to tell me US government had no control over its citizens?! Bollox! US politicos were whores as much then as they are now, and they depended on financial/industrial elites as much then as they are now. That's why they did nothing (apart from lip service) to stop US power clans from helping Hitler; and after the war, made US tax payers to pay Ford and Bush clans COMPENSATION for damage their businesses sustained in Germany at the hands of Americans US politicos sent to fight Nazis!

What the fuck are you yammering about, fool?

So you lie, then you claim the lie is evidence of an absurd conspiracy.

Yep, you're a Communist alright.

2. I provided you with official statistics for USSR penal system and with demographic chart. Show me WHERE your "65 million" fit in! And name me the PRIME source for that number (I hope you understand what "prime source" means).

Who the fuck cares? You posted something in Russian that has no meaning to anyone.

I'll stick to the University or Hawaii, who fully documents their findings.

3. "Kulak" is a "wealthy peasant". Kulaks who were committing crimes such as murder or damage to the property were tried for these crimes; and included into statistics I provided.

ROFL

Yeah, 27 million of them...

Damned criminals.

BTW sparky, you're not thinking you have any credibility - with anyone, are you?

The absolute majority of "kulaks" either stayed in their respective villages or moved into towns!

Where they were murdered by Stalin isn't relevant, moron.

4. Did Stalin also forced Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Germany, Britain, USA into starvation? Because, you see, all countries named above suffered from famine at the very time the USSR did.

Yep, millions died of starvation in America and Britain..

 

[mememe]

1. So?!

Ford was US citizen! And his companies remained his throughout the war! Nazis NEVER had full control over Ford production!

In fact, you're lying. The regime assumed complete control as early as 39'

US FINANCIAL CLANS were financing Hitler till 1944 through various schemes!

Oh yes, you floated the old Bush lie.

Damn, that's sure original.



What the fuck are you yammering about, fool?

So you lie, then you claim the lie is evidence of an absurd conspiracy.

Yep, you're a Communist alright.



Who the fuck cares? You posted something in Russian that has no meaning to anyone.

I'll stick to the University or Hawaii, who fully documents their findings.



ROFL

Yeah, 27 million of them...

Damned criminals.

BTW sparky, you're not thinking you have any credibility - with anyone, are you?

The absolute majority of "kulaks" either stayed in their respective villages or moved into towns!

Where they were murdered by Stalin isn't relevant, moron.

4. Did Stalin also forced Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Germany, Britain, USA into starvation? Because, you see, all countries named above suffered from famine at the very time the USSR did.

Yep, millions died of starvation in America and Britain..

You did not read the links I provided! They display proofs of the fact that both Ford and Bush families were NEVER out of control over their German production facilities!
And the schemes run by US financial clans are also concisely explained.

The rest of your post is the usual American response to the information you were not exposed to for decades: slogans, personal abuse and incoherent mumblings.
No prime sources... didn't have a clue about the famine in Poland, Britain, US or Romania...

At least refrain from posting your stupidity outside of English speaking forums -- the world has moved on...

 

[Uncensored2008]

Same old lies by the same old liars...

{Bush was one of seven directors (including W. Averell Harriman) of the Union Banking Corporation, an investment bank that operated as a clearing house for many assets and enterprises held by German steel magnate Fritz Thyssen.[4][5] In July 1942 the bank was suspected of holding gold on behalf of Nazi leaders.[6] A subsequent government investigation disproved those allegations, but confirmed the Thyssens' control, and in October 1942 the United States seized the bank under the Trading with the Enemy Act and held the assets for the duration of World War II.[4]

According to the journalist Joe Conason Bush's involvement with UBC was purely commercial and that he was not a Nazi sympathizer.[7][dead link] The Anti-Defamation League[8] and historian Herbert Parmet[5] agreed with that assessment.}

Prescott Bush - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[mememe]

Same old lies

READ the links I provided for Ford, Bush and your financial clans. Do yourself a favour.

 

[daveman]

I posted an image from an article,

I can see that you posted "an image" to some bullshit that even the article can't explain.

All right, Dave... I also posted "an image" of an official document and some translation for company, so you can memorise the data and avoid making an ass of yourself in future.

The ghost of Stalin is laughing at you for believing his bullshit.

You're one of his useful idiots. Meanwhile, you just keep blaming the millions of deaths caused by Communism on other things.

You contemptible piece of shit.

 

[daveman]

Soviet "criminals" were those whom the State didn't like for various reasons.

.

Dave! Darling! Are you suggesting that the Soviet Union had a perfect society where the only crime was "someone did not like the state" (whatever that means to you)?!

Do you mean to say, that in the Soviet Union no one committed murders, robberies, no one was stealing or behaving disorderly in public; no one was driving carelessly or damaging someone's property???!!!

Is that what you think -- the USSR was a perfect society?!

No, you moron. I'm saying that things that weren't illegal in normal nations were illegal in the Soviet Union.

You know, things like disagreeing with the government.

Is that a crime worthy of sentencing to camps of strict regimen to you?

Yes. It probably is.

Moron.