Keith Olbermann with a moving special comment about gay marriage

[BlackAsCoal]

BlackasCoal - I'll try again...slowly this time.

Stating that a possible reason to go slowly on legalizing gay marriage is that from a legal precendent standpoint it opens the door to polygamists seeking similar rights is not even remotely close to comparing a homosexual to a pedophile.

You seem to want to make this what I am saying, but I am not, nor have I ever stated that.

Your wish to dismiss it out of hand is understandable...no one who supports gay marriage wants to believe that legalizing gay marriage might one day lead to the legalization of forms of marriage they do not currently approve of...but it does not invalidate the argument.

Rather than attempting to use a typical tactic of implying that I am insulting homosexuals or comparing them to pedophiles - which anyone with half a brain understands I am not...why don't you explain why the legalization of gay marriage will not make the legalization of polygamist marriage an easier fight?

I don't have to distort what you're saying to make my argument.

I'll try this real slowly ..

You're suggesting that legalizing gay marriage opens the door to people who are committing the criminal acts of polygamy and pedophillia.

And I'm saying that's ridiculous. It's ridiculous not because you may not like gays, it's ridiculous to believe that people in the commission of a criminal act will somehow be given legal status that validates that illegal act.

And I'm saying that denying rights to any group today because somewhere in the future social deviants might get the same rights isn't much of an argument .. which is why no one really considers it.

Stop hiding behind "I'm not homophobic" .. that's not my argument.

 

[Gem]

Gay marriage is currently illegal is most states. Polygamy is likewise, illegal. So where is your argument?

If we legally recognize one, why couldn't the other be legally recognized later?

You aren't making sense, BlackasCoal...just because Polygamy is illegal now doesn't mean that can't be changed. It's legal to live with more than one person, legal to sleep with more than one person...so why can't those people receive the same civil rights as everyone else?

 

[Againsheila]

I don't have to distort what you're saying to make my argument.

I'll try this real slowly ..

You're suggesting that legalizing gay marriage opens the door to people who are committing the criminal acts of polygamy and pedophillia.

And I'm saying that's ridiculous. It's ridiculous not because you may not like gays, it's ridiculous to believe that people in the commission of a criminal act will somehow be given legal status that validates that illegal act.

And I'm saying that denying rights to any group today because somewhere in the future social deviants might get the same rights isn't much of an argument .. which is why no one really considers it.

Stop hiding behind "I'm not homophobic" .. that's not my argument.

You do know that up until recently sodomy has been considered illegal in almost every states, right?

 

[LoThunder]

Gem's Quote:
I have a lawyer in the family. Arguing with him is a bitch. And that polygamists have tried before is important...but not necessarily an end to the debate, especially with the precedent of gay marriage newly entered into the equation.


Well, I have several dogs in this fight.
Some of my dearest friends are gay and in committed healthy relationships.
I also love a good legal fight, just from the standpoint of constitutionality.

Thunder:Are you asking me, does that make gay marriage a DEAL-BREAKER in that respect?
No. I think sometime soon we are going to need to state CLEARLY what, if any compelling interest does the state have in preventing people from having multiple spouses.

Personally, I think the issues are WAY different than gay marriage, but I certainly won't deny that looking at ONE will lead us to look at another...

Gem: Thank you. This is really all I am looking for. A discussion as to the possible outcomes, both positive and negative, of legalizing gay marriage. I believe that legalizing gay marriage will lead to an eventual push by some to legalize polygamy...

Well I am hoping that people can see the distinction between the FATUOUS argument of "well, next people will want to marry GOATS," and this ACTUAL possibility that polygamists will assert their "rights." It is entirely likely that this will happen and people on the NO on Prop 8 side of the debate need to be prepared to deal with it.


Thunder: I think I'd first like to hear how you think polygamy is harmful. I believe it is as well- but I'd like to know your position first.

Gem:I have mixed feelings on polygamy actually. My objections to legalizing it are multifold, the complications to the legal system, the care of children, the history of exploitation that has followed with it, etc.

I will state right out that I was a Mormon as a kid, (we got thrown out because Mom couldn't stop smoking,) and this business of off-shoot Mormon fundamentalists in Utah, Colorado, Mexico and Canada gets my skins crawling.

If you haven't read, "Under The Banner of Heaven," by Jon Krakauer, I really recommend it (now watch as the Mormons rally to kick my butt...)

I will just say that I have seen nothing in PRACTICE to allow me to think that polygamy is either healthy or follows the general guidelines of "consenting adults."

Thunder: I am by nature, a sarcastic pup. This is what my mom called me.
I certainly do not disrespect you, but I need to tell you that I am informal and irreverent. Please accept me as I am, because I have the hots for your cartoon avatar...

Gem:Sarcasm is wonderful. I am incredibly sarcastic...although I've learned to tone it down here because people were misreading it and typing me some really nasty notes! But I have no problem with sarcasm or irreverence...and I'm glad my avatar does it for ya!

At some point in the gay marriage debate, we may also need to decide whether it is morally decent to hump a cartoon...

Thunder: I hope to be doing that. At the same time, I will be responding to outright bigots and homophobes the way I generally do.
I hope you will be able to tell the difference between which people I am talking to.

Gem: I usually can tell the difference...hopefully you'll do the same with me, and understand when I'm addressing some posters and not all.

You are filled with great kindness.

 

[Gem]

LoThunder Wrote:

we may also need to decide whether it is morally decent to hump a cartoon...

Well I'm all for that. I mean, who isn't? You've seen my avatar. Who wouldn't want to get with that?!?

 

[Ocean56]

Both the Bible and Quran speak against homosexuality.

By allowing gay marriage our society is destroying it's morals and decending into cultural choas. In history rampant homosexuality was a sign of a society imploding and in the last functioning stages of civilation.

Yes Islam is a religion of Peace. And yes, you need to be at Peace with your neighbor.

But if your neighbor is a rapist, murderer, homosexual, child molester, or some other type of pervert. You are NOT required to accept them or their sick lifestyle as OK or normal.

And what if all religion, including ISLAM, was banned, the same way that gay marriage has been? What if some "genius" decided that all religion was a terrible thing and just made all of it illegal, based on a popular vote in your state?

Don't give absurd replies that "it would never happen" and other such nonsense. Try to IMAGINE, if anyone is capable of doing so, what YOUR reaction would be if some state law suddenly made it illegal for you to attend your fundie church. That you could be arrested, tried and convicted for the "crime" of just showing up at your church door. How would it FEEL? It wouldn't feel too good, isn't that correct?

Bottom line; RELIGION DOESN'T RULE THE U.S., nor should it ever. Which means YOU don't get to impose your anti-gay religious beliefs onto everyone else, either by force or by ballot. The fact that it was put on a ballot in the first place is a travesty.

Ocean

 

[LoThunder]

LoThunder Wrote:
we may also need to decide whether it is morally decent to hump a cartoon...

Well I'm all for that. I mean, who isn't? You've seen my avatar. Who wouldn't want to get with that?!?

I've often wondered what it would be like to meet someone who actually looked that way- eyes as big as dollar bills and such.
Might be pretty damn scary...

 

[Gem]

A little "close encounters?"

 

[Ocean56]

[/B] Thunder: I am by nature, a sarcastic pup. This is what my mom called me. I certainly do not disrespect you, but I need to tell you that I am informal and irreverent.
[/B]

That's why I love your posts so much, if you don't mind my saying so. They are indeed informal, irreverent, and above all HONEST.

Even if I might disagree with any of your views one day, which so far I have not, I know exactly where you stand on an issue, and as I think you know by now, I'll tell you that I disagree and my reasons why. You are blunt and plain-speaking, and I never have to wonder if you have any hidden meanings. For me, honesty and plain-speaking is what works.

Ocean

 

[BlackAsCoal]

Gay marriage is currently illegal is most states. Polygamy is likewise, illegal. So where is your argument?

If we legally recognize one, why couldn't the other be legally recognized later?

You aren't making sense, BlackasCoal...just because Polygamy is illegal now doesn't mean that can't be changed. It's legal to live with more than one person, legal to sleep with more than one person...so why can't those people receive the same civil rights as everyone else?

Surely you're being purposefully obtuse.

One more time.

Being gay is not illegal.

Being a pedophile or a polygamist is illegal

Granting marriage rights to gay people does not justify a criminal act.

Granting marriage rights to pedophiles and polygamists is the justification of an criminal act.

Personally, I couldn't care less if three people or eight people all decide to marry each other. Doesn't affect my marriage or life one iota.

Pedophiles get married to children all the time and it's perfectly legal in states like Alabama and South Carolina where children as young as 14 get married, and New Hampshire where a female can be married at 13 .. and there is a host of states that allow marriage at 15.

Hope that clears things up.

 

[xsited1]

I can't wait until a cure is found for homosexuality. Then we won't be having these conversations.

 

[BlackAsCoal]

You do know that up until recently sodomy has been considered illegal in almost every states, right?

Sure .. until people got smarter and asked if it was only wrong when men took it up the butt.

 

[Ocean56]

You don't believe that bigotry is a good enough explanation?

Out here the Yes committee told people that teachers were going to be telling kids how to cram penises into buttholes.
You know, lies are fear tactics- just like how all OTHER Right-Wing pressure is applied.

I still don't know what vested interest the people have in denying this simple right to Life,, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness- that THAT is what is going to be argued in the Supreme Court very soon on this issue.

You won't be able to argue that gay marriage makes you, "feel all icky down there," or that it pisses Jesus off.

You''ll have to FINALLY ANSWER THE QUESTION- exactly WHAT HARM does gay marriage incur?
And what is the PEOPLE'S compelling interest in removing the right of gays to marry?

That's going to be a LOT harder than denouncing Keith Olbermann or calling each other fag.

It certainly WILL be a lot harder, and I'm looking forward to hearing something intelligent for a change.

So far, I have yet to hear or read ANY legitimate argument against gay marriage. All I have seen and heard are incredibly lame ones, such as "it redefines my own marriage" (REALLY, and just HOW does it do that, exactly? ) and "it pisses Jesus/God off." Which as far as I'M concerned, don't even come close to an argument anyone can take seriously as an intelligent reason to ban gay marriage.

Ocean

 

[Gem]

Unfortunately, it doesn't clear it up.

Being gay is not illegal. Neither is being sexually involved with more than one person at the same time.

Being married to a person of the same sex is currently illegal in most states. Being married to more than one person is likewise, illegal.

Where is this confusing to you, BlackasCoal?

 

[BlackAsCoal]

LoThunder Wrote:


Well I'm all for that. I mean, who isn't? You've seen my avatar. Who wouldn't want to get with that?!?

I don't ... I'm hoping to have sex with GigiBowman's avatar.

When I was growing up, Betty Boop was all we had .. didn't have BET.

 

[Gem]

True...GigiBowman's avatar is pretty hot.

 

[BlackAsCoal]

Unfortunately, it doesn't clear it up.

Being gay is not illegal. Neither is being sexually involved with more than one person at the same time.

Being married to a person of the same sex is currently illegal in most states. Being married to more than one person is likewise, illegal.

Where is this confusing to you, BlackasCoal?

I'm done and comfortable with agreeing to disagree .. I appreciate your perspective

 

[DavidS]

I can't wait until a cure is found for homosexuality. Then we won't be having these conversations.

The Nazis said the same thing about Jews. That they needed to be "cured."

 

[Sunni Man]

The Nazis said the same thing about Jews. That they needed to be "cured."

Please provide link or evidence where any Nazi leader made a statement about Jews needing to be "cured of Judiasm".

Thank You

 

[Luissa]

Wrong. I've been posting on this board for many years now, and I've proved this many, many times with hard data and facts. They're all there with just a simple google search, do it. "ON AVERAGE," homosexuals are nine times more likely to be a pedophile than a heterosexual.

http://us2000.org/cfmc/Pedophilia.pdf

REPORT SHOWS LINK BETWEEN HOMOSEXUALITY AND CHILD ABUSE

Homosexual Activists Intimidate American Psychiatric Association into Removing Homosexuality from List of Disorders Conservative Colloquium

Here is something for you to read!

HOMOSEXUALITY AND CHILD SEXUAL MOLESTATION