Justifiable use of deadly force or not?

[OODA_Loop]

Knife killings on the rise in Australia as gun murders fall

 

[JakeStarkey]

On a knife edge: Rising violence in London

From the article: Across England and Wales an incident involving a blade or sharp object takes place, on average, every 14 minutes. Of the 37,000 incidents in the past 12 months, more than 13,000 offenses were committed in London.

So monthly the average sharp edge event affects .000125284738041 of London's population.

That is probably 99% of people slicing their thumbs when preparing meat or vegetables.

 

[OODA_Loop]

On a knife edge: Rising violence in London

From the article: Across England and Wales an incident involving a blade or sharp object takes place, on average, every 14 minutes. Of the 37,000 incidents in the past 12 months, more than 13,000 offenses were committed in London.

So monthly the average sharp edge event affects .000125284738041 of London's population.

That is probably 99% of people slicing their thumbs when preparing meat or vegetables.

What percentage of US gun crime affects our population ?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Far more per capita than UK or Australia, you know that, Ooodles.

 

[2aguy]

Yet UK, Australia, South Africa, Canada, etc., are far more safer than the US with its wild west laws.

The wild west was very safe...everyone had a gun so everyone was polite.

Gun crime in the U.K., Australia and Canada is going up....

Did you just list South Africa as being safer than the U.S....... did you fall and hit your head?

South Africa is getting ready for genocide...they are mandating that White Farmers turn in their guns.......

 

[MacTheKnife]

Anything but common sense and justice rule now in Washington.

Certain ccw people want to kill other unarmed 'violent' people, so the gun holder creates a scene where he can be 'assaulted' and thus able to dispatch the victim.

If and when caught in the act by other responsible ccw observers, such shooters should be shown no mercy. Maybe they can shout "don't resist", and when the shooter turns their way with weapon in hand, they can be dispatched.

And yet the reality, the facts and the truth tell us you don't know what you are talking about.....we now have close to if not over 17 million people who can and do carry guns out in public....we have close to 600 million guns in private hands....

Our gun murder rate? Over the last 25 years has gone down 49%.

Our gun violence rate? Over the last 25 years is down 75%.

Our violent crime rate? Over the last 25 years is down 72%.

The current research into Concealed carry permit holders shows that they are more law abiding than the average citizen, and commit fewer crimes than sworn police officers do.

You are not talking with facts, you have an opinion and that opinion is not based in the truth or reality.

Great post.

 

[MaryL]

We all have hindsight AFTER the fact. I hate assholes ( yes, any able person that parks in handicapped spot needs a swift kick in the ASS), but that aside: But did the asskickee-need to assault this man? Um, it seemed that Mr. Victim shouldn't have attacked Mr. Gunn guy. Yet again, it seems Mr. Gunn was on some kind of self appointed deputy thing. Mr Gunn could have just pointed his gun at Mr. Victim and that would have pretty much ended the squabble.

 

[MacTheKnife]

We all have hindsight AFTER the fact. I hate assholes ( yes, any able person that parks in handicapped spot needs a swift kick in the ASS), but that aside: But did the asskickee-need to assault this man? Um, it seemed that Mr. Victim shouldn't have attacked Mr. Gunn guy. Yet again, it seems Mr. Gunn was on some kind of self appointed deputy thing. Mr Gunn could have just pointed his gun at Mr. Victim and that would have pretty much ended the squabble.

Easy for you to say since you were not the one knocked to the ground.

In a situation like this when a fellow has been blindsided and knocked to the ground he must assume there might be more to follow.

He has no idea what might happen next and he could very well have been in a mild state of shock.

Thus--the self preservation instinct kicks into play.

To understand how that works you need to have been in combat or some altercation where your life is on the line.

The law of the jungle says....when attacked by a monkey shoot first and ax questions later.

'NOW this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky;
And the Wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the Wolf that shall break it will die'....Law of the Jungle.

 

[protectionist]

We all have hindsight AFTER the fact. I hate assholes ( yes, any able person that parks in handicapped spot needs a swift kick in the ASS), but that aside: But did the asskickee-need to assault this man? Um, it seemed that Mr. Victim shouldn't have attacked Mr. Gunn guy. Yet again, it seems Mr. Gunn was on some kind of self appointed deputy thing. Mr Gunn could have just pointed his gun at Mr. Victim and that would have pretty much ended the squabble.

Heat of passion.....inertia,,,,,,close proximity of the attacker......fear (caused by attacker)......

I don't see this as a stand your ground case. Stand your ground cases involve shootings where the attacker is coming at the victim. Then the victim is not obligated to flee, but can shoot the attacker to defend himself.

In this case, McGlockton was stepping backward. It looks like a simple self-defense (or not) case, not SYG. It's not a matter of whether Drejka should have fled or not, it's a matter of whether he should have fired his gun.

Also, there is the question of inertia mixed with heat of passion. This all happened in the space of a few seconds, and when Drejka shot, he could have still been in a self-defense consciousness, carrying over. Who (that has not been in this situation) is really to say what the shooter might have felt ?

Also, when the gun was fired, McGlockton was still very close to Drejka - well within the standard 21 foot zone for self-defense shooting. Is Drejka under an obligation to automatically assume that he is no longer threatened ? In a blink of an eye (with how close McGlockton was) he still could have bolted toward Drejka, to finish his attack.

I'm not necessarily defending Drejka, but just trying to illuminate some factors not seeming to be discussed too much, which could be relevant.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The stupidity of the killatanychance group just reeks foul.

The new investigations beginning tomorrow will bring the full story to light.

 

[OODA_Loop]

The wild west was very safe...everyone had a gun so everyone was polite.
.

People were held accountable for their actions....it is whats missing today.

 

[MacTheKnife]

We all have hindsight AFTER the fact. I hate assholes ( yes, any able person that parks in handicapped spot needs a swift kick in the ASS), but that aside: But did the asskickee-need to assault this man? Um, it seemed that Mr. Victim shouldn't have attacked Mr. Gunn guy. Yet again, it seems Mr. Gunn was on some kind of self appointed deputy thing. Mr Gunn could have just pointed his gun at Mr. Victim and that would have pretty much ended the squabble.

Heat of passion.....inertia,,,,,,close proximity of the attacker......fear (caused by attacker)......

I don't see this as a stand your ground case. Stand your ground cases involve shootings where the attacker is coming at the victim. Then the victim is not obligated to flee, but can shoot the attacker to defend himself.

In this case, McGlockton was stepping backward. It looks like a simple self-defense (or not) case, not SYG. It's not a matter of whether Drejka should have fled or not, it's a matter of whether he should have fired his gun.

Also, there is the question of inertia mixed with heat of passion. This all happened in the space of a few seconds, and when Drejka shot, he could have still been in a self-defense consciousness, carrying over. Who (that has not been in this situation) is really to say what the shooter might have felt ?

Also, when the gun was fired, McGlockton was still very close to Drejka - well within the standard 21 foot zone for self-defense shooting. Is Drejka under an obligation to automatically assume that he is no longer threatened ? In a blink of an eye (with how close McGlockton was) he still could have bolted toward Drejka, to finish his attack.

I'm not necessarily defending Drejka, but just trying to illuminate some factors not seeming to be discussed too much, which could be relevant.

Excellent analysis which one does not see often in regards to this discussion. Too many do not know what the law of self defense in Florida says. Then if you inform them, most of them are so blinded by their bias and agenda they still cannot get it. Of course the intelligence factor plays a big role also as in many posting on this topic have a problem in that area.

 

[MacTheKnife]

The wild west was very safe...everyone had a gun so everyone was polite.
.

People were held accountable for their actions....it is whats missing today.

Well, another big factor is the racial problem we have today. I think the older man would have shot whoever was attacking him, no matter their color. But I doubt if the black guy would have attacked another black guy like that. The black had been arrested for assault in another case. It would be interesting to know the details of that.

 

[MacTheKnife]

On a knife edge: Rising violence in London

From the article: Across England and Wales an incident involving a blade or sharp object takes place, on average, every 14 minutes. Of the 37,000 incidents in the past 12 months, more than 13,000 offenses were committed in London.

So monthly the average sharp edge event affects .000125284738041 of London's population.

That is probably 99% of people slicing their thumbs when preparing meat or vegetables.

You seem unaware of what is happening in London.

London stabbings 2018 – Latest knife crime statistics and attacks in Leicester Square to Mill Hill

 

[MacTheKnife]

[QUOTE="JakeStarkey, post: 20464873, member: 20412”]

Certain ccw people want to kill other unarmed 'violent' people, so the gun holder creates a scene where he can be 'assaulted' and thus able to dispatch the victim.

How do you know this?[/QUOTE]

He doesn't know shit from shiloh. He just has an over-active imagination.

 

[charwin95]

Just wondering if you knew who is the instigator.
Verbally assaulting his wife. Do you just stand there watch and play pussy?
Then he got shoved for minding other people’s business. Pulled a gun killing someone just because of handicap parking space. Murderer.

You cant put your hands on people for words. What every kindergartener knows.

You can’t just yelled at my wife or my girlfriend either.
A jerk like that will get more than shoved from me.

You would be committing assault and depending on the ferocity of which would have to expect someone to defend themselves. Lethally if required

To bad. Protecting my family is a priority and more important than anything else.

The man that did the shoving should have followed by kick and punch the heck of this dude. Always assumed that that this dude is crazy.

I saw a fight like that in Russia and China. While the other guy is on the ground this dude grab a chair and pummeled with no chance to retaliate.
In China while this guy is on the ground the other guy jump on him and beat the heck with no chance to hit back.

I don’t know who are the bad guys on both fights.

 

[charwin95]

Just wondering if you knew who is the instigator.
Verbally assaulting his wife. Do you just stand there watch and play pussy?
Then he got shoved for minding other people’s business. Pulled a gun killing someone just because of handicap parking space. Murderer.

You cant put your hands on people for words. What every kindergartener knows.

You can’t just yelled at my wife or my girlfriend either.
A jerk like that will get more than shoved from me.

You are a prime candidate for a early death. Dangerous attitude to run around with. Both from a legal perspective as well as a common sense perspective. Lots of folks out there who can supprise the hell out of you as Trayvonista and this latest moron foundout. Can you imagine the shock the darky went through when he realized the old guy had inflicted a mortal wound? To be killed by someone you thought was just another p.o.s. white guy. Oh so entitled ---they think they can run around and assault anyone...especially someone they perceive as being weak and no threat.

Also a lot of darkies think the state will allways protect them. How did that work out for this fellow in the incident in Clearwater?
Some folks really need to wise up. Steer clear of violence if at all possible. You will live a lot longer. and perhaps even avoid jail time.

The world doesn’t work that way brother.
There is always saying...... I will also stay on my ground protecting my family.

 

[MacTheKnife]

Just wondering if you knew who is the instigator.
Verbally assaulting his wife. Do you just stand there watch and play pussy?
Then he got shoved for minding other people’s business. Pulled a gun killing someone just because of handicap parking space. Murderer.

You cant put your hands on people for words. What every kindergartener knows.

You can’t just yelled at my wife or my girlfriend either.
A jerk like that will get more than shoved from me.

You are a prime candidate for a early death. Dangerous attitude to run around with. Both from a legal perspective as well as a common sense perspective. Lots of folks out there who can supprise the hell out of you as Trayvonista and this latest moron foundout. Can you imagine the shock the darky went through when he realized the old guy had inflicted a mortal wound? To be killed by someone you thought was just another p.o.s. white guy. Oh so entitled ---they think they can run around and assault anyone...especially someone they perceive as being weak and no threat.

Also a lot of darkies think the state will allways protect them. How did that work out for this fellow in the incident in Clearwater?
Some folks really need to wise up. Steer clear of violence if at all possible. You will live a lot longer. and perhaps even avoid jail time.

The world doesn’t work that way brother.
There is always saying...... I will also stay on my ground protecting my family.

Is Trayvon dead or not? Is the Clearwater black guy dead or not? geez some folks just never learn.

Not even to mention that the black guys family was in no danger until he committed assault right in front of his children.

He had no respect for his family and paid the ultimate price.

Since this was the second time the black guy had comitted assault one has to think he had huge anger problems which he could not control.

I wonder if his first victim was also white?

 

[sealybobo]

Again, particularly that he continually staged that event.

Yet he never brandished and didn't use the gun someone went hands on ?

What does that mean?

He continually staged the event but never brandished or used his weapon therefore he was looking to use his weapon isnt supported by his factual actions, He used only after being attacked.

Could his actions be considered baiting someone to attack?

I'd say so.
But that doesnt give the guy the right to attack him.
People have disagreements everyday without resorting to violence.
Not that I agree with the shooting but the law is the law.

Yes, the law is the law

Florida 'stand your ground' shooter charged with manslaughter

 

[G.T.]

I saw that today, I'm glad that justice is being served after thorough review.