Just Go Away Teacher Unions!...

[uscitizen]

I saw a guy on Fox today saying that unions are the reason our education system is where it is.
That is just absurd.

 

[Charles_Main]

Teachers have it pretty good compared to many other occupations. Yet Teachers seem to do the most whining & complaining. They get all weekends off,several weeks of paid Holiday time off,and they get their Summers off. That just doesn't seem so horrible. Of all professions,Teachers by far do the most whining & complaining. Look around America and see how many Americans enjoy all weekends off,several weeks of paid Holiday time off,and entire Summers off. So Teachers do have it pretty good. They need to slow down on their whiny greed. It does come down to the Teacher Unions in the end. They force their members to whine & complain so much. Give em the boot and our Schools might just recover.

Teachers earn far less on average than non-teachers with the same level of education required for the job.

That may be true but they receive other great benefits no other occupations have. All Weekends off,several weeks of paid Holiday Time off,and entire Summers off? That seems pretty nice to most outside observers. Look around America and see how many other Americans enjoy those kinds of benefits. The Teacher Unions are only trouble at this point. They've outlived their usefulness. They only stand for greed and political activism at this point. It's time for them to get the boot once and for all. Our kids deserve better.

you hit the nail on the head right there. Not only do they get great benefits, and retirement. Most teachers have about 4 Months a year off. So they are often able to work in those 4 months in other jobs. People talk about their Salaries as if they are annual when in fact they are paid that amount for 2/3rds of a year.

 

[bodecea]

The Teacher Unions are the root cause of most of the problems in our Public School System. Too much greed & politics coming from them at this point. They have lost their way. They have neglected the kids for too many years. It's all about them now. Just get more cash and get more Democrats elected. That's all the Teacher Unions are good for these days. They do nothing for the kids anymore. If the Public Schools dropped them,i guarantee things would immediately improve. The kids don't need all this political activism and greed. That stuff never had a place in our Schools. It's actually pretty depressing observing what the Teacher Unions have done to our Public Schools. It really is time for them to just go away.

That is a HUGE LIE. Never did I ever see a union leader at my school telling me or my other teachers telling them what to teach.

The problem is PARENTS. Seriously, we have to try to teach kids for 45 minutes while they aren't paying attention, they are talking to each other. Then you get the cool kid who never does his homework and constantly disrupt classrooms and then their parents come into parent teacher conference and I shoot them straight and they say "Oh not my precious bradley, he's special and you're just not teaching him right."

I got 45 minutes to teach 28 kids. I don't got time to personalize lesson plans for each student. The work world doesn't personalize their training program, it is what it is and you follow it. You're kid isn't special, and maybe if you made sure your kids got their homework done, maybe they wouldn't be so stupid. Quit trying to make me take responsibility for your job. You have a job to take care of your own kid. They better shape up because the real world doesn't care how special your kid is.

You are lucky it is 28 kids. The district my daughter is in it's 32 to a class...and until they are filled, they don't hire anyone else...even if that means misplacing students.

My brother was in a district where they built a new science wing and he pointed out that there were only seats at the built in lab tables for 32 (that district did not have a cap written into their contracts). He was assured that 32 seats would be all they needed. Since he moved into that new wing, he's has as many as 45 and as few as 31...and has been told to have them sit on the counters or bring in folding chairs....and still supervise labs with bunsen burners, scaples, etc. My aunt was a long time Physics teacher in VA when she had a student purposefully stick a paperclip in a electrical socket at his lab station. She saw him do it, the other kids saw him do it...but the parents tried to sue the district and demanded she be fired...fortunately, a mediator with a lick of sense looked at the kid during a meeting and said that he knew the kid did it on purpose and there was no sense lying about it. If it had not been for him, my aunt would have lost her job after over 25 years in that district.

 

[peach174]

I don't know why these people can't get it that their unions are making the states broke by having the taxpayer pay for their health care and retirements. All the Gov is asking is for a fare balance here to pay for their own health care somewhat just like all the rest of us have to do. And the bargaining negations that the union bosses have gotten is way out of control and unreasonable.
It has to happen for all of the states that have this type of system.
Why don't they get it, it's either help to pay for your services or eventually theses services will go away without any money in the future.
And getting the kids involved is just down right wrong.

 

[bodecea]

Teachers earn far less on average than non-teachers with the same level of education required for the job.

That may be true but they receive other great benefits no other occupations have. All Weekends off,several weeks of paid Holiday Time off,and entire Summers off? That seems pretty nice to most outside observers. Look around America and see how many other Americans enjoy those kinds of benefits. The Teacher Unions are only trouble at this point. They've outlived their usefulness. They only stand for greed and political activism at this point. It's time for them to get the boot once and for all. Our kids deserve better.

you hit the nail on the head right there. Not only do they get great benefits, and retirement. Most teachers have about 4 Months a year off. So they are often able to work in those 4 months in other jobs. People talk about their Salaries as if they are annual when in fact they are paid that amount for 2/3rds of a year.

yes they are...and they are still the lowest paid professionals (requiring minimum of 5 years of college and certification) out there.

 

[The T]

I saw a guy on Fox today saying that unions are the reason our education system is where it is.
That is just absurd.

It's true. Unions are more interested in their power over others and politics than they are about the people they supposedly represent.

Unions are Corporations that deal with chattle...people, and their power over them. In Statist parlence? "Big Labour".

 

[bodecea]

I don't know why these people can't get it that their unions are making the states broke by having the taxpayer pay for their health care and retirements. All the Gov is asking is for a fare balance here to pay for their own health care somewhat just like all the rest of us have to do. And the bargaining negations that the union bosses have gotten is way out of control and unreasonable.
It has to happen for all of the states that have this type of system.
What don't they get it, it's either help to pay for your services or eventually theses services will go away without any money in the future.
And getting the kids involved is just down right wrong.

DId they not already take a cut last year in pay and health benefits?

 

[bodecea]

I saw a guy on Fox today saying that unions are the reason our education system is where it is.
That is just absurd.

They need a whipping boy.

 

[Wicked Jester]

I saw a guy on Fox today saying that unions are the reason our education system is where it is.
That is just absurd.

And he was absolutely right.

Just look at the disparity in test scores and graduation rates between non union private and charter school teachers to unionized public school teachers.

Those numbers tell the real story. Those numbers are what the unions fear most.

 

[Samson]

I've taught for the past 15 years and there hasn't been one day I thought the working environment regarding children was 'crushingly bad.' What are you referring to?

I've seen a fair number of graduates head into the public education system with a large amount of optimism....and re-enter school as an MBA candidate within 3 years totally crushed by the system. These weren't lazy kids by any stretch. Many were among the best and brightest I'd seen. They had pure hearts, clean hands, and a desire to help students learn. And between parents and administration they didn't last 3 years.

I've also seen a fair number of public school teachers head into grad school in the hopes of landing a lectureship at the college level telling horror stories the likes of which would turn your hair grey.

Now, I'll freely admit I'm in a state where the public education is completely out of whack. My great state is always #49 or #2 depending on how you order the list. But you're not going to have a chance to change that if your young, enthusiastic, well trained new teachers burn out in 3 years or less.

Something has to give. Either you need to massively rework the compensation for teaching, or you need to massively rework the teaching environment.

Seems you already know that you've made a couple logical fallacies here. Over generalization and inductive reasoning without substantiation.

I think, in a rather awkward way, there's a point to Dr. Travler's comment that many teachers don't last more than 3 years, but it's not necessarily because of a "crushingly bad" work environment.

Other factors right off the top of my head:

1. Female teachers get married, have kids, and become stay-at-home moms
2. Teaching allows many to develop marketable skills (organization, presentation, etc.) and a job refence, that allows them to find alternative jobs (regardless of whatever the work environment thay might have experienced teaching).
3. Male teachers in particular, find they cannot support their new families on a teacher's pay/benefits (there is no "matching 401(k), Heath Care benefits often suck)

I find compensation for teaching to usually be quite fair DURING THE FIRST 3 years, particularly when you consider that they work little more than 185 days/year. However often salary schedules begin to level out 3-5 years after they are hired: There is no premium put on experience, and I'm not certain there should be. After all, how much better is a teacher with 5 years experience than a teacher with 15 years experience?

 

[The T]

I saw a guy on Fox today saying that unions are the reason our education system is where it is.
That is just absurd.

And he was absolutely right.

Just look at the disparity in test scores and graduation rates between non union private and charter school teachers to unionized public school teachers.

Those numbers tell the real story. Those numbers are what the unions fear most.

And why they and Statist politicians are against real choice for parents to get the best education for their children. It cuts into their profits. (And yes I mean money and influence).

 

[Samson]

That may be true but they receive other great benefits no other occupations have. All Weekends off,several weeks of paid Holiday Time off,and entire Summers off? That seems pretty nice to most outside observers. Look around America and see how many other Americans enjoy those kinds of benefits. The Teacher Unions are only trouble at this point. They've outlived their usefulness. They only stand for greed and political activism at this point. It's time for them to get the boot once and for all. Our kids deserve better.

you hit the nail on the head right there. Not only do they get great benefits, and retirement. Most teachers have about 4 Months a year off. So they are often able to work in those 4 months in other jobs. People talk about their Salaries as if they are annual when in fact they are paid that amount for 2/3rds of a year.

yes they are...and they are still the lowest paid professionals (requiring minimum of 5 years of college and certification) out there.

You make this sound like news?

Who expected to be highly paid for a teaching certificate?

Sorry, but if teachers wanted higher pay, then THEY SHOULDn"T HAVE BEEN TEACHERS.

 

[Samson]

I saw a guy on Fox today saying that unions are the reason our education system is where it is.
That is just absurd.

Naw, teachers unions have been a HUGE help.....

 

[N4mddissent]

Kudos to new Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker!

More brave Politicians need to start standing up to the corrupt Teacher Unions. The Teacher Unions have brought our Public School System to its knees. It has become all about them. It's all about getting that cash for them. They don't care about the kids anymore. They also only want to force their politics and social experimenting on the kids at this point. Their number one goal these last few decades has been to brainwash the children and create good little future adult Democrats. They stopped teaching the kids the basics of Education a long time ago.

Teacher Unions now only do far more harm than they do good. It's time for them to go away. The Public School System will be so much better off when they're gone. The Kids could actually start learning again. American kids continue to fall further & further behind other far less developed and less wealthy nations. I do blame the Teacher Unions for this. They have become too obsessed with the cash and creating good little future adult Democrats. They have lost their way. Get rid of the Teacher Unions and our Public School System might just be salvaged.

States with weak teacher unions have even lower test scores than ones with stronger unions. In any case, unions are not the problem with our education system. People looking everywhere other than shit parenting for someone to blame are the real problem.

And teachers (non union) in our kids private school, and other surrounding private schools in the area, have far higher test scores and graduation rates than the unionized teachers in surrounding public schools.

Ya' see, those teachers don't have a union to back them up if their competence is called into question. They have a higher standard to live up to. They fail, they are rightfully shit canned and sent packing. That's the way it should be.

See Boudecea's post

Parents who send their kids to private school obviously have the RESOURCES and MOTIVATION to see that their kids succeed in school. But in public school teachers have to deal with some kids with good supportive parents, but a lot of kids with shit parents who don't care along and instill those values (or lack thereof) in their children. But people want to compare the two as if they draw on the same population. It would be like you having to pick the first 10 random people you meet on the street and giving them a physical while I go grab 5 people working out at the local gym, and then I declare that obviously people in my town are more physically fit.

I have had dealings with a wide variety of public school systems. I spent time in a public school in a very wealthy neighborhood (avg home value $500,000 -$1,000,000 in the area around the school). The parents were educated and wealthy. The student's scores were off the chart. They had a 98% graduation rate.

I also spent time in a high poverty rural public school. The test scores were terrible. Large portions were not at grade level, and the drop-out rate was appalling. Discipline was a constant struggle.

They were in the same state, teaching the same standards, using the same techniques. The only difference I could see was that the teachers in the poorer school actually worked harder and sacrificed more of their personal time because they were trying so hard to help these students improve. The teachers at the richer school had a much easier time and were better paid.

Beginning teachers usually make about $20 per hour. Not exactly "get rich" money. (And no, they do not get paid for any of their "vacation" whether it's spring break, winter break, or summer break. Do the math...40 hrs per week times 38 weeks) They only get paid for the 190 days they work. Plus, they often work over 40 hours per week but since they are salaried employees, they usually don't get compensated for that. I know one teacher who had a brother who worked as a custodian in a nuclear plant and her father was a mechanic at a paper mill. Both made far more than she did and neither had ever been to college.

Almost every teacher I have ever met wants nothing more than the kids they teach to succeed. If they complain, it is because they get tired of busting their asses to help students to succeed while some kids and parents won't lift a finger to help or take one iota of personal responsibility for their own or their child's education. Instead they want to blame the teachers. Then they have to listen to lots of other people jump on the "blame the teacher" bandwagon just because it is more convenient to blame teachers or it fits better with their political ideology or just utter bombastic nonsense about issues of which they have no real knowledge.

 

[Gem]

As a public school teacher, I would be absolutely fine with doing away with the unions. My question to those of you who support that, however, is:

What are you going to do when that doesn't miraculously "fix" this broken system and, in fact, spawns a whole new set of problems?

It seems like many here are hanging their hats on the "the evil teachers unions are the reason public education is failing in this country," and while I would have no problem with doing away with collective bargaining, etc. (in fact, I'm pretty sure I would benefit greatly from such a decision), I find it laughable that so many seem to think that this will solve the problem of why our schools are failing.

 

[Samson]

As a public school teacher, I would be absolutely fine with doing away with the unions. My question to those of you who support that, however, is:

What are you going to do when that doesn't miraculously "fix" this broken system and, in fact, spawns a whole new set of problems?

It seems like many here are hanging their hats on the "the evil teachers unions are the reason public education is failing in this country," and while I would have no problem with doing away with collective bargaining, etc. (in fact, I'm pretty sure I would benefit greatly from such a decision), I find it laughable that so many seem to think that this will solve the problem of why our schools are failing.

What "whole new set of problems" do you mean?

Like, what would be the top 3?

 

[Annie]

you hit the nail on the head right there. Not only do they get great benefits, and retirement. Most teachers have about 4 Months a year off. So they are often able to work in those 4 months in other jobs. People talk about their Salaries as if they are annual when in fact they are paid that amount for 2/3rds of a year.

yes they are...and they are still the lowest paid professionals (requiring minimum of 5 years of college and certification) out there.

You make this sound like news?

Who expected to be highly paid for a teaching certificate?

Sorry, but if teachers wanted higher pay, then THEY SHOULDn"T HAVE BEEN TEACHERS.

Maybe it's me, but I find an average salary in the mid-high 40's pretty good. In more generous, populated states quite a bit higher. My local districts have an average in the high 50's for unit districts, secondary districts are in the mid-60's. Both of these are before extra curricular pay.

 

[Samson]

Then they have to listen to lots of other people jump on the "blame the teacher" bandwagon just because it is more convenient to blame teachers or it fits better with their political ideology or just utter bombastic nonsense about issues of which they have no real knowledge.

It is convenient to "blame the teachers."

However, every other "professional" is measured by their accomplishments...why should teachers be any different? They are, after all PUBLIC School teachers. They are supposed to teach the PUBLIC, not just kids that come from perfect households, and who have high values of self motivation.

 

[Wicked Jester]

As a public school teacher, I would be absolutely fine with doing away with the unions. My question to those of you who support that, however, is:

What are you going to do when that doesn't miraculously "fix" this broken system and, in fact, spawns a whole new set of problems?

It seems like many here are hanging their hats on the "the evil teachers unions are the reason public education is failing in this country," and while I would have no problem with doing away with collective bargaining, etc. (in fact, I'm pretty sure I would benefit greatly from such a decision), I find it laughable that so many seem to think that this will solve the problem of why our schools are failing.

Doing away with the unions will force teachers to hold themselves to a higher standard. They won't have the security blanket of a union fighting for them despite their abject incompetence.

Get the power out of the hands of the unions and put it fully in the hands of the school districts. If the school districts could have the power over their teachers and their competence without the inevitable threat of union intervention in personnel matters, things would no doubt change.

Basically, just cut out the middle man and get directly down to business. Enough is enough.

 

[Twin Fist]

unions suck, and protect perverts and molesters, and need to be outlawed

Keeping Bad Teachers in Front of Students | Teachers Union Facts

In ten years, only about 47 out of 100,000 teachers were actually terminated from New Jersey’s schools.

NJ Teachers Union Exposed | Blogs For Victory

Teachers Union Exposed

auto unions are even worse