Just Go Away Teacher Unions!...

[LibocalypseNow]

Teacher Unions only serve the interests of themselves and the Democratic Party. They haven't served the interests of children & parents for a very long time. I just don't see any positives they add to the Public School System.

 

[Two Thumbs]

How do I do that without being dismissed as trolling? How about just the part about undermining worker's rights? That is germain to the thread.

sure

I have yet to come across anyone in my life that has ever said they want to do away with unions for everyone b/c workers have to many rights.

I have seen them blamed for demanding excessive pay and benefits. And THAT is a fact.

My home state of Il is going to go under, way under b/c they can not afford to pay the union pensions, never mind pay everything else.

So how is it "fair" to crush everyone else to pay for that? How is it fair to keep a useless teacher just b/c they have tenure?

I'm just dying to know how you figure wanting children tought better is a bad thing if it means redoing the teachers union.

So, it's alright to blame union workers for asking for pay and benefits if it's thought to be excessive. Does the same go for CEO Golden Parachute deals and bonuses? Pensioners can be held in contempt for actually using their benefits. But the wage disparity between management and worker is something Conservatives ignore.

See, this is why I avoid conversing with certain people. You can't stay on topic w/o wondering off into attack mode and derailing the thread.

Ok, "golden Parachutes". Who brings in the money? the execs do. If they don't they get canned and the only one that get these really over the top sweet deals are the ones that have a track record of success.

My brother in law has a neighbor, HS drop out that makes $42.50/hr. She puts windshield wipers on cars and attaches the lid to the wiper fluid. You gonna tell me she's not over paid?

 

[Two Thumbs]

Teacher Unions only serve the interests of themselves and the Democratic Party. They haven't served the interests of children & parents for a very long time. I just don't see any positives they add to the Public School System.

The teachers union is only there for the teachers. That's thier sole job.

the side effects they create have no meaning to them.

 

[Mr Natural]

sure

I have yet to come across anyone in my life that has ever said they want to do away with unions for everyone b/c workers have to many rights.

I have seen them blamed for demanding excessive pay and benefits. And THAT is a fact.

My home state of Il is going to go under, way under b/c they can not afford to pay the union pensions, never mind pay everything else.

So how is it "fair" to crush everyone else to pay for that? How is it fair to keep a useless teacher just b/c they have tenure?

I'm just dying to know how you figure wanting children tought better is a bad thing if it means redoing the teachers union.

So, it's alright to blame union workers for asking for pay and benefits if it's thought to be excessive. Does the same go for CEO Golden Parachute deals and bonuses? Pensioners can be held in contempt for actually using their benefits. But the wage disparity between management and worker is something Conservatives ignore.

See, this is why I avoid conversing with certain people. You can't stay on topic w/o wondering off into attack mode and derailing the thread.

Ok, "golden Parachutes". Who brings in the money? the execs do. If they don't they get canned and the only one that get these really over the top sweet deals are the ones that have a track record of success.

My brother in law has a neighbor, HS drop out that makes $42.50/hr. She puts windshield wipers on cars and attaches the lid to the wiper fluid. You gonna tell me she's not over paid?

Good for her!

America needs more decently compensated workers to keep the middle class strong.

Burger flippers and Wal-Mart greeters alone will not keep this economy going.

 

[Annie]

Once again I ask, what are considered 'fair wages' for teachers?

I'd imagine most teachers would consider their current wages "fair" provided the working environment wasn't so soul crushingly bad. Or if it weren't for the fact that they're sent to the class deprived of any tool to maintain order.

It's when people start talking about stripping away tenure, or enacting provisions that will likely make the job that much harder that the real gripping about wages hits. And that's a pretty fair thing. In a free market economy, if you're asking to someone to perform a demanding job, you'd best be willing to pay them approprately if you want to keep a quality employee. Otherwise they'll find another better paying job. Which is what many teachers over the years have done.

I've taught for the past 15 years and there hasn't been one day I thought the working environment regarding children was 'crushingly bad.' What are you referring to?

I don't think someone should keep their job forever, just because they had decent reviews for 3 years or less. Nor do I think teachers should lose their jobs on whimsy of administrator or crazy parents or one year of test scores. Those are issues that need addressing.

Truth of the matter is that in the past 20 years you've found more private sector folks, especially lawyers, accountants, and MBA's heading into teaching than teachers heading into private sector.

 

[Nosmo King]

sure

I have yet to come across anyone in my life that has ever said they want to do away with unions for everyone b/c workers have to many rights.

I have seen them blamed for demanding excessive pay and benefits. And THAT is a fact.

My home state of Il is going to go under, way under b/c they can not afford to pay the union pensions, never mind pay everything else.

So how is it "fair" to crush everyone else to pay for that? How is it fair to keep a useless teacher just b/c they have tenure?

I'm just dying to know how you figure wanting children tought better is a bad thing if it means redoing the teachers union.

So, it's alright to blame union workers for asking for pay and benefits if it's thought to be excessive. Does the same go for CEO Golden Parachute deals and bonuses? Pensioners can be held in contempt for actually using their benefits. But the wage disparity between management and worker is something Conservatives ignore.

See, this is why I avoid conversing with certain people. You can't stay on topic w/o wondering off into attack mode and derailing the thread.

Ok, "golden Parachutes". Who brings in the money? the execs do. If they don't they get canned and the only one that get these really over the top sweet deals are the ones that have a track record of success.

My brother in law has a neighbor, HS drop out that makes $42.50/hr. She puts windshield wipers on cars and attaches the lid to the wiper fluid. You gonna tell me she's not over paid?

that $42.50 an hour. How much is in benefits and how much is in net pay?

And isn't it great that she can make a living wage? Imagine her working in China. Or maybe that's what Conservatives really want. A general lowering of our American standard of living just to increase profits and fund those golden parachutes.

 

[bodecea]

Actually, he is. He's exempted the public sector unions that supported him in election bid. If he were serious about balancing the budget, it would all be on the table. It isn't. Public sector unions that supported him got passed over while those that stood up to him are punished.

He exempted unions that supported him eh? Wow yeah shocker, politicians never do anything like that. I mean Obama never did.

lol

What ever.

You people will cry and scream Nazi at every turn when ever a responsible leader tries to make hard Budget cuts. To you people the only answer is print more money and keep giving it away to under performing unions.

The Teachers are failing to teach our kids to a level acceptable, can you say the same about the Police and Fire Unions?

Yes Teachers are under-performing for the most part. It's time for Teacher Unions to just go away. Good riddance.

Teachers are under-performing? I'm quite sure you are much better at teaching. How much classroom time do you have in front of public school students, Libo?

 

[bodecea]

....and give the power back to the parents in a community.....(most) parents aren't the problem.....parents today are pretty much gagged by the powers-that-be in the education system today....

Parents wield most of the power in school systems through threats (or actual implementation of) lawsuits and outright bullying of spineless administrators.

The really good parents are pretty screwed. The norm now is that both parents work full time jobs. Once that became the norm, it became pretty hard for parents to be actively involved. The majority only check in when little timmy gets an "F", and only check in then to threaten or bully timmy's teacher into giving him a "C".

A lot of folks here complain about social promotion and grade inflation. What they should know is that most of that is because parents demanded it! And when they didn't get it, they sued.

Bullshit....most parents don't stand a chance against "the system".....they have to organize in big groups to even be heard...

...lawsuits are a completely different animal.....is this really how most normal people want to resolve their issues in their communities.....?

Not true. Parents get final say on their child's placement. Parents get final say on their child being retained. Parents get final say on their child's testing. Parents get final say on pretty much everything about their child's education. MOST parents don't bother. SOME parents put unrealistic demands on schools...and those demands are met anyways...even if it causes the class to suffer...but since MOST parents do nothing, it happens.

I told the story of my friend and that ED child. IF the other parents complained to the school and district, something could be done....but they don't and the teacher is powerless.

 

[Two Thumbs]

So, it's alright to blame union workers for asking for pay and benefits if it's thought to be excessive. Does the same go for CEO Golden Parachute deals and bonuses? Pensioners can be held in contempt for actually using their benefits. But the wage disparity between management and worker is something Conservatives ignore.

See, this is why I avoid conversing with certain people. You can't stay on topic w/o wondering off into attack mode and derailing the thread.

Ok, "golden Parachutes". Who brings in the money? the execs do. If they don't they get canned and the only one that get these really over the top sweet deals are the ones that have a track record of success.

My brother in law has a neighbor, HS drop out that makes $42.50/hr. She puts windshield wipers on cars and attaches the lid to the wiper fluid. You gonna tell me she's not over paid?

that $42.50 an hour. How much is in benefits and how much is in net pay?

And isn't it great that she can make a living wage? Imagine her working in China. Or maybe that's what Conservatives really want. A general lowering of our American standard of living just to increase profits and fund those golden parachutes.

Are you intentionally being annoying?

$42.50 an hour is $42.50 an hour. Union members never bother to mention the cost of everything else b/c they don't pay it themselves, so they don't know.

Living wage? I'd be willing to bet she could live on $20/hr, and if she did twice as many people could afford to buy new cars. (ballparking) b/c the price could come down, which would increase demand which would force the company that employed her to hire more people, who could then buy more cars.

Look I know math is hard, and that golden chute has a glare. but honestly now; Is her job worth $42.50 an hour?

 

[chanel]

Kudos to new Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker!

More brave Politicians need to start standing up to the corrupt Teacher Unions. The Teacher Unions have brought our Public School System to its knees. It has become all about them. It's all about getting that cash for them. They don't care about the kids anymore. They also only want to force their politics and social experimenting on the kids at this point. Their number one goal these last few decades has been to brainwash the children and create good little future adult Democrats. They stopped teaching the kids the basics of Education a long time ago.

Teacher Unions now only do far more harm than they do good. It's time for them to go away. The Public School System will be so much better off when they're gone. The Kids could actually start learning again. American kids continue to fall further & further behind other far less developed and less wealthy nations. I do blame the Teacher Unions for this. They have become too obsessed with the cash and creating good little future adult Democrats. They have lost their way. Get rid of the Teacher Unions and our Public School System might just be able to be salvaged.

I know dozens of private school teachers and none of them are in a union. I wonder why they are necessary in public schools. Anyone know?

My kids go to Catholic school. They have a union.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

All i see is more deflection and whining coming from Teachers. They just refuse to take any responsibility for our failing Public School System. They had a big hand in our Public School System crash. Others had a hand in it as well. If it's all about the money & politics for you,then you should look for another line of work. The kids shouldn't be forced to suffer from greed & political activism. We are falling way behind many other nations in Education. Many of these nations have far less money & resources than we do. So why are they passing us? Teachers need to look at themselves in the mirror more often. It's not always someone else's fault. They play a part too. It's time for them to begin accepting this.

 

[bodecea]

All i see is more deflection and whining coming from Teachers. They just refuse to take any responsibility for our failing Public School System. They had a big hand in our Public School System crash. Others had a hand in it as well. If it's all about the money & politics for you,then you should look for another line of work. The kids shouldn't be forced to suffer from greed & political activism. We are falling way behind many other nations in Education. Many of these nations have far less money & resources than we do. So why are they passing us? Teachers need to look at themselves in the mirror more often. It's not always someone else's fault. They play a part too. It's time for them to begin accepting this.

Since you see a problem with public education caused by teachers PLUS you think that teachers have it quite easy....why are you not stepping up to become a teacher and fix things? IF it is such a choice job, why are you not becoming a teacher?

 

[Dr.Traveler]

I don't think someone should keep their job forever, just because they had decent reviews for 3 years or less.

This is not how tenure works. It is a popular misconception of how tenure works.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

I've taught for the past 15 years and there hasn't been one day I thought the working environment regarding children was 'crushingly bad.' What are you referring to?

I've seen a fair number of graduates head into the public education system with a large amount of optimism....and re-enter school as an MBA candidate within 3 years totally crushed by the system. These weren't lazy kids by any stretch. Many were among the best and brightest I'd seen. They had pure hearts, clean hands, and a desire to help students learn. And between parents and administration they didn't last 3 years.

I've also seen a fair number of public school teachers head into grad school in the hopes of landing a lectureship at the college level telling horror stories the likes of which would turn your hair grey.

Now, I'll freely admit I'm in a state where the public education is completely out of whack. My great state is always #49 or #2 depending on how you order the list. But you're not going to have a chance to change that if your young, enthusiastic, well trained new teachers burn out in 3 years or less.

Something has to give. Either you need to massively rework the compensation for teaching, or you need to massively rework the teaching environment.

 

[WillowTree]

All i see is more deflection and whining coming from Teachers. They just refuse to take any responsibility for our failing Public School System. They had a big hand in our Public School System crash. Others had a hand in it as well. If it's all about the money & politics for you,then you should look for another line of work. The kids shouldn't be forced to suffer from greed & political activism. We are falling way behind many other nations in Education. Many of these nations have far less money & resources than we do. So why are they passing us? Teachers need to look at themselves in the mirror more often. It's not always someone else's fault. They play a part too. It's time for them to begin accepting this.

Since you see a problem with public education caused by teachers PLUS you think that teachers have it quite easy....why are you not stepping up to become a teacher and fix things? IF it is such a choice job, why are you not becoming a teacher?

Idiot. You had a problem with health care, when do you get your MD?

 

[boedicca]

All i see is more deflection and whining coming from Teachers. They just refuse to take any responsibility for our failing Public School System. They had a big hand in our Public School System crash. Others had a hand in it as well. If it's all about the money & politics for you,then you should look for another line of work. The kids shouldn't be forced to suffer from greed & political activism. We are falling way behind many other nations in Education. Many of these nations have far less money & resources than we do. So why are they passing us? Teachers need to look at themselves in the mirror more often. It's not always someone else's fault. They play a part too. It's time for them to begin accepting this.

I think it's great. I hope more and more teachers go on strike so that more and more taxpayers and parents say enough and pressure their governors to decertify the unions.

 

[EriktheRed]

Just Go Away Teacher Unions!

Sorry, they don't seem to be inclined to do that. In fact the protesters are reportedly 4000 strong today in the WI capitol building.

 

[chanel]

Unions are not the problem is you are talking about student achievemenrt. If rthe concern is pension and benefits and state economies, you may have a point. Ponzi scheme for sure.

But the reason students are unskilled amd have no work ethic, have NOTHING to do with unions. Entitlement mentallity is a national disgrace.

 

[boedicca]

Well, it can be easily argued that certain (if not all) unions actually promote an entitlement attitude, and thus are a cause of poor student achievement.

 

[bodecea]

All i see is more deflection and whining coming from Teachers. They just refuse to take any responsibility for our failing Public School System. They had a big hand in our Public School System crash. Others had a hand in it as well. If it's all about the money & politics for you,then you should look for another line of work. The kids shouldn't be forced to suffer from greed & political activism. We are falling way behind many other nations in Education. Many of these nations have far less money & resources than we do. So why are they passing us? Teachers need to look at themselves in the mirror more often. It's not always someone else's fault. They play a part too. It's time for them to begin accepting this.

I think it's great. I hope more and more teachers go on strike so that more and more taxpayers and parents say enough and pressure their governors to decertify the unions.

Hey, yeah...do that in your state. Then reap the benefits of having your children taught by whoever they can get for the lowest bid....I'm sure this is something you will relish.