Judasim and the "Pie in the Sky"

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by DGS49, Dec 6, 2018.

  1. DGS49
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    DGS49 Gold Member

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    Les Moonves - Wikipedia

    It pains me to write this, but what the hell, it's an anonymous forum so here goes.

    The (Roman Catholic) Second Vatican Council, as I saw it, defined a legitimate religion as one that (a) believed in a supreme being, (b) believed in an eternal soul, and (c) believed that in some way, after death, a virtuous life would be rewarded and an evil life would be punished. This last belief is sometimes cynically referred to as the "pie in the sky."

    Putting it another way, any true religion believes that one's conduct in life MATTERS. Virtue will ultimately be rewarded and evil punished. Psychologically, this belief is one of the main justifications for the very existence of religion. In life, virtue is often NOT rewarded in any meaningful way, and bad people often go to their graves fat, dumb, and happy. The Pie in the Sky rectifies this perceived injustice.

    Judaism has always been "weak" as regards the Pie in the Sky. I do not believe that there is any definitive jewish teaching regarding the afterlife, and there is nothing definitively describing rewards and punishments ("heaven & hell").

    And while Jewish teachings encourage altruism in many aspects, they are not formulated as commands or imperatives (or at least not taken as such).

    So it is with much regret that i bring my lifelong observation that jews are often at Ground Zero in areas where immorality rears its ugly head. Look at a listing of "slum landlords," and jewish names abound. In the days when pornography was nearly outlawed, the profiteers in this sordid business were almost all jews. As the common culture (in film) broke taboo after taboo, the trailbreakers were all jews. The businesses that exploit the poor, ignorant masses...pawn shops, ghetto jewelers, payday lenders, furniture "rental" stores...are all dominated by jewish businessmen. Not strictly illegal, but far from moral.

    Today one notes that ethnic jews are walking away from their faith in droves, utterly rejecting its teachings on homosexualty, marriage, and abortion. Many Reform jews freely admit to being either atheist or agnostic.

    In Israel, judaism seems to have devolved into such a self-centered incestuous cult in which nothing but the tiny clique matters.

    Outside Israel, even among the truly faithful - orthodox and conservative congregations - judaism does not seem to result in a great deal of altruistic activity, save from a few ultra-rich jews who throw crumbs about, largely for their own glorification (M. Bloomberg).

    Does virtue ultimately matter?

    The subject of the above link is called a philanthropist by some, but obviously is a morally hollow fellow. Before knowing for certain i would have bet a thousand dollars that he was a jew.

    So my thesis is as follows: the failure of judaism to embrace the Pie in the Sky has caused it to fail as a religion. For most of its adherents.
     
  2. Karl Rand
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    Karl Rand Senior Member

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    I doubt you experienced anything like pain writing that. Maybe you’ll make up for it in the next life? As to any claim a particular religion has ‘failed’, I wonder how you measure the success or failure of any belief system. On this earth or on the other side?
    As to the failure of the Roman kind, don’t push those of us who’ve experienced it personally to list the sins of the clergy and religious ‘authorities’. It may also be a good idea to avoid the old biblical apoligists trick of blaming Satan. It doesn’t wash.
     
  3. fncceo
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    fncceo Gold Member

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    What a failure, it's only 3,500 years old.

    P.S. Your rent is late ... again.
     
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  4. Karl Rand
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    Karl Rand Senior Member

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    Can I be rude enough to draw attention to the elephant in the room? Judaism, is as fractured as Christianity. Any analysis, criticism or promulgation of either avoiding this fact will fall into the trap of making very rash generalisations. However, that’s not to say we should avoid the study of, and/or criticism of so called holy books in their many translations. Additionally we have to face the multiple, often unjustifiable interpretations of these tomes that many delude themselves to be ‘God’s Word’.
    Putting aside for now the vain presumption our species might ever understand whatever ‘language’ a creator of everything may speak in, we need to face up to the fact these tomes are the product of human authorship even if one accepts the claim of ‘divine inspiration’ (whatever that might be) .
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
  5. BlackFlag
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    BlackFlag Gold Member

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    There are many superior religions to the Abrahamic ones. Don’t box yourselves in.
     
  6. fncceo
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    fncceo Gold Member

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    There are over 43,000 different xtian denominations.

    How many Jewish denominations are there? If you ever meet a Jew, ask them.
     
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  7. Karl Rand
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    Karl Rand Senior Member

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    You need to read some history. For many centuries Christian governments forbad Jews being involved in many forms of gainful employment forcing them to survive on the periphery of whatever economic system operated. However, I'm puzzled as to where you get the evidence your criticisms apply almost exclusively to the international Jewish community today.
    As to history of the Jews, specifically in relation to Rome, you should read The Christian Holocaust: A critical study of organised religion. by Mark Mason.
    You may be in for a shock.
     
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  8. Karl Rand
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    Karl Rand Senior Member

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    How do you recognise a ‘superior religion’?
     
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  9. Karl Rand
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    Karl Rand Senior Member

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    An interesting statistic. Where did you get it?
     
  10. BlackFlag
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    BlackFlag Gold Member

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    One that brings you more comfort or happiness or whatever. If you don’t shop around, you’ll never know.
     

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