Judasim and the "Pie in the Sky"

[HaShev]

Elaborating on my prior point, I posit that MEN ARE EVIL BY NATURE.

Without an intervening force, humans will be selfish, cruel (even sadistic), avaricious, violent, unforgiving, and reproductively/carnally irresponsible. The proof is all around us. Look at the behavior that characterizes our worst ghettos: theft, drug abuse, physical abuse, violent crime, rampant irresponsible sexual behavior, endemic sloth, rejection of education and other personal development. These are manifestations of Man in his natural state.

And so it is instructive and valuable to identify people and communities that are antithetical to this natural state, to see what drives the "abnormal" behaviors of kindness, consideration, modesty, sexual fidelity, almsgiving, hard work, persistence, reverence for knowledge, and so forth. USUALLY, some form of "religion" is largely responsible.

And if a religion fails to result, generally, in these sorts of behaviors, then one could say that it "fails" as a religion.

For a contrast to my ugly portrayal of modern judaism above, look at LDS. It is theologically preposterous, but it seems to spawn all of the positive behaviors and attitudes mentioned above.

P.S. Did someone above imply that judaism teaches REINCARNATION? Or did I misinterpret?

You just described my neighbor who never knew the teachings of Judaism. So is his self serving, self satisfaction whatever feels good without care or consequence or feeling of guilt a result of realizing his upbringing is bogus or just an undeveloped frontal lobe making him a sociopath incapable of good sound social choices within the societal norms?
His brothers all died young (as he is dying in his 30's too) and they all lived wretched lives, so most likely in his case bad religion (saved by an idol teachings) and bad codling parents who spoiled and ill prepared them with normal social behavior, thus making them socially inept and addicts.

 

[Karl Rand]

The story of Abraham is about a man's transformation and progression (stepping over the boundries of the flowing river to come into a whole new place in his life), literally and figuratively represented by that journey.
Even in his new land he progresses and has rationalization moments of awakening and proper perspectives. Before Abraham was a neighborly compassionate soul he was a self serving idol shop attendant idol worshiper in the land of Cannan which had the 2 deities I discussed, so yeah he would most likely start out a baal idol participant until he met Melchizedek (messenger of Righteousness) the high priest of Shalem which influenced Abraham to the more practical understandings of how things are and could be.
Instead of reliance on a metal, clay, wood figurine, Abraham was learning that kindness to ones neighbors and mitzvahs was the practical path to a more fruitful pleasant community and life.
In the story if Moses, some of the people were falling back towards their Canaanite rival god Baal so Moses had to do an Abraham impression by breakingvthe idols and destroting them (history reoeats), and this lesson about falling back onto old reliances of idols and repeating bad habits is even relevant and mirrored in our day and age and through the ages it has always been a problem no matter how many verses oppose idol worship or lessons on the subject there is.

Many interpretations have been given to the story of Moses and the Red Sea etc and attached mitzvahs. However, recent biblical analysis needs to also take into account other probable explanations :- A miracle! Science claims to have figured out how sea was parted for Israelites
Thanks for the דרשה anyhow.

 

[Taz]

Subsidized by the government.

I don’t believe so. The donors received tax breaks and tax breaks are not subsidies.

Faith based initiatives.

Like what?

Pulling funding for contraception in Africa.

Somehow I don’t believe that was what he was getting at. But hey, there’s an opportunity for you to create an atheist charity to fill that void.

Why are you against contraceptives?

 

[ding]

I don’t believe so. The donors received tax breaks and tax breaks are not subsidies.

Faith based initiatives.

Like what?

Pulling funding for contraception in Africa.

Somehow I don’t believe that was what he was getting at. But hey, there’s an opportunity for you to create an atheist charity to fill that void.

Why are you against contraceptives?

Did I say I was?

Why are you against organizing atheists for rubbers?

 

[Votto]

Les Moonves - Wikipedia

It pains me to write this, but what the hell, it's an anonymous forum so here goes.

The (Roman Catholic) Second Vatican Council, as I saw it, defined a legitimate religion as one that (a) believed in a supreme being, (b) believed in an eternal soul, and (c) believed that in some way, after death, a virtuous life would be rewarded and an evil life would be punished. This last belief is sometimes cynically referred to as the "pie in the sky."

Putting it another way, any true religion believes that one's conduct in life MATTERS. Virtue will ultimately be rewarded and evil punished. Psychologically, this belief is one of the main justifications for the very existence of religion. In life, virtue is often NOT rewarded in any meaningful way, and bad people often go to their graves fat, dumb, and happy. The Pie in the Sky rectifies this perceived injustice.

Judaism has always been "weak" as regards the Pie in the Sky. I do not believe that there is any definitive jewish teaching regarding the afterlife, and there is nothing definitively describing rewards and punishments ("heaven & hell").

And while Jewish teachings encourage altruism in many aspects, they are not formulated as commands or imperatives (or at least not taken as such).

So it is with much regret that i bring my lifelong observation that jews are often at Ground Zero in areas where immorality rears its ugly head. Look at a listing of "slum landlords," and jewish names abound. In the days when pornography was nearly outlawed, the profiteers in this sordid business were almost all jews. As the common culture (in film) broke taboo after taboo, the trailbreakers were all jews. The businesses that exploit the poor, ignorant masses...pawn shops, ghetto jewelers, payday lenders, furniture "rental" stores...are all dominated by jewish businessmen. Not strictly illegal, but far from moral.

Today one notes that ethnic jews are walking away from their faith in droves, utterly rejecting its teachings on homosexualty, marriage, and abortion. Many Reform jews freely admit to being either atheist or agnostic.

In Israel, judaism seems to have devolved into such a self-centered incestuous cult in which nothing but the tiny clique matters.

Outside Israel, even among the truly faithful - orthodox and conservative congregations - judaism does not seem to result in a great deal of altruistic activity, save from a few ultra-rich jews who throw crumbs about, largely for their own glorification (M. Bloomberg).

Does virtue ultimately matter?

The subject of the above link is called a philanthropist by some, but obviously is a morally hollow fellow. Before knowing for certain i would have bet a thousand dollars that he was a jew.

So my thesis is as follows: the failure of judaism to embrace the Pie in the Sky has caused it to fail as a religion. For most of its adherents.

Does virtue matter?

Well let's see, let us review the OT, shall we? I'm sorry, should I have said the Torah?

The Hebrew people walked away from God, and then what happened? Assyria takes out Northern Israel and then scattered, never to be heard of again. Then the Southern kingdom is similarly treated the same by Babylon.

At the end of the day, the Hebrew people were then scattered to Europe where they endured centuries of persecution. Everything that was done in Nazi Germany was done to them in Europe centuries before. In fact, the Holocaust was simply a natural outcome to the horrific oppression of the Jewish people for centuries.

Today, the Jewish people still have not learned their lesson. Just like they demanded a new king in 1 Samuel 8, where God said that the people were rejected him demanding a human king, they still are looking for one today. And what happened after Saul was appointed king? They almost immediately began circling the drain after their second king David till they were spewed into seemingly never ending persecution by evil men.

Today, the Jewish Left continues to turn to evil men. In fact, I wonder how many voted for the fabulous socialist Hitler.

And what does the Left want to do to Jews today? You guessed it, another Jewish Holocaust by destroying the Zionist nation of Israel.

They never learn.

And I have not even mentioned the evils that might occur in the after life. That if for you to decide.

 

[sparky]

Does virtue ultimately matter?

Ask your God

maybe He's wise enough to recognize the vast chasm betwix faith and religion

and that most so called 'believers ' on this rock are no more than some socio-political ideology masquarading as religion

~S~

 

[Taz]

Faith based initiatives.

Like what?

Pulling funding for contraception in Africa.

Somehow I don’t believe that was what he was getting at. But hey, there’s an opportunity for you to create an atheist charity to fill that void.

Why are you against contraceptives?

Did I say I was?

Why are you against organizing atheists for rubbers?

If you’re not against them, then you organize it, I’m too lazy for that.

 

[ding]

Does virtue ultimately matter?

Ask your God

maybe He's wise enough to recognize the vast chasm betwix faith and religion

and that most so called 'believers ' on this rock are no more than some socio-political ideology masquarading as religion

~S~

Bullshit. You have an idealized view of the path not taken and your assessment of religion is not objective.

 

[ding]

Like what?

Pulling funding for contraception in Africa.

Somehow I don’t believe that was what he was getting at. But hey, there’s an opportunity for you to create an atheist charity to fill that void.

Why are you against contraceptives?

Did I say I was?

Why are you against organizing atheists for rubbers?

If you’re not against them, then you organize it, I’m too lazy for that.

I’m not the one bitching about it. You are.

 

[ding]

Does virtue ultimately matter?

Ask your God

maybe He's wise enough to recognize the vast chasm betwix faith and religion

and that most so called 'believers ' on this rock are no more than some socio-political ideology masquarading as religion

~S~

We don’t need to ask “my” God. We can solve this through inspection.

Virtue is the greatest organizing principle known to man. Even when it is misguided.

 

[ding]

The story of Abraham is about a man's transformation and progression (stepping over the boundries of the flowing river to come into a whole new place in his life), literally and figuratively represented by that journey.
Even in his new land he progresses and has rationalization moments of awakening and proper perspectives. Before Abraham was a neighborly compassionate soul he was a self serving idol shop attendant idol worshiper in the land of Cannan which had the 2 deities I discussed, so yeah he would most likely start out a baal idol participant until he met Melchizedek (messenger of Righteousness) the high priest of Shalem which influenced Abraham to the more practical understandings of how things are and could be.
Instead of reliance on a metal, clay, wood figurine, Abraham was learning that kindness to ones neighbors and mitzvahs was the practical path to a more fruitful pleasant community and life.
In the story if Moses, some of the people were falling back towards their Canaanite rival god Baal so Moses had to do an Abraham impression by breakingvthe idols and destroting them (history reoeats), and this lesson about falling back onto old reliances of idols and repeating bad habits is even relevant and mirrored in our day and age and through the ages it has always been a problem no matter how many verses oppose idol worship or lessons on the subject there is.

Many interpretations have been given to the story of Moses and the Red Sea etc and attached mitzvahs. However, recent biblical analysis needs to also take into account other probable explanations :- A miracle! Science claims to have figured out how sea was parted for Israelites
Thanks for the דרשה anyhow.

The link you provided does not credit the person who figured this out.

Yes, there is a submerged land bridge. They even found artifacts near it.

 

[Taz]

Pulling funding for contraception in Africa.

Somehow I don’t believe that was what he was getting at. But hey, there’s an opportunity for you to create an atheist charity to fill that void.

Why are you against contraceptives?

Did I say I was?

Why are you against organizing atheists for rubbers?

If you’re not against them, then you organize it, I’m too lazy for that.

I’m not the one bitching about it. You are.

So why are you against contraception?

 

[ding]

Somehow I don’t believe that was what he was getting at. But hey, there’s an opportunity for you to create an atheist charity to fill that void.

Why are you against contraceptives?

Did I say I was?

Why are you against organizing atheists for rubbers?

If you’re not against them, then you organize it, I’m too lazy for that.

I’m not the one bitching about it. You are.

So why are you against contraception?

Again, who said I was?

 

[Taz]

Why are you against contraceptives?

Did I say I was?

Why are you against organizing atheists for rubbers?

If you’re not against them, then you organize it, I’m too lazy for that.

I’m not the one bitching about it. You are.

So why are you against contraception?

Again, who said I was?

Deny it then.

 

[ding]

Did I say I was?

Why are you against organizing atheists for rubbers?

If you’re not against them, then you organize it, I’m too lazy for that.

I’m not the one bitching about it. You are.

So why are you against contraception?

Again, who said I was?

Deny it then.

Deny what?

I'm not against contraception.

If you feel so strongly about it why aren't you doing something about it?

 

[Taz]

If you’re not against them, then you organize it, I’m too lazy for that.

I’m not the one bitching about it. You are.

So why are you against contraception?

Again, who said I was?

Deny it then.

Deny what?

I'm not against contraception.

If you feel so strongly about it why aren't you doing something about it?

Just checking to see how crazy you are. You passed that test.

 

[ding]

I’m not the one bitching about it. You are.

So why are you against contraception?

Again, who said I was?

Deny it then.

Deny what?

I'm not against contraception.

If you feel so strongly about it why aren't you doing something about it?

Just checking to see how crazy you are. You passed that test.

Because I don't see anything wrong with using contraception?

Or is it because I believe you are all fur coat and no knickers when it comes to contraception.

If you feel so strongly about contraception, then do something about it.

 

[Disir]

In your case arguing the opposite shows theological ignorance and philosophical irrationality.

No. It shows I don’t throw the baby out with the dirty bath water.

Your usage of the English language is sufficiently obscure and opaque to compose your own scripture. Maybe however you should start somewhere basic by re-writing the begats?

Religion creates wonderful charities and organizations.

Subsidized by the government.

You mean the government doesn't interfere with them?

Don't want to follow rules? Don't take the money.

 

[Disir]

Putting it another way, any true religion believes that one's conduct in life MATTERS. Virtue will ultimately be rewarded and evil punished. Psychologically, this belief is one of the main justifications for the very existence of religion. In life, virtue is often NOT rewarded in any meaningful way, and bad people often go to their graves fat, dumb, and happy. The Pie in the Sky rectifies this perceived injustice.

Judaism has always been "weak" as regards the Pie in the Sky. I do not believe that there is any definitive jewish teaching regarding the afterlife, and there is nothing definitively describing rewards and punishments ("heaven & hell").

And while Jewish teachings encourage altruism in many aspects, they are not formulated as commands or imperatives (or at least not taken as such).

This is why Christianity has been considered a death cult since late antiquity. If you do what you are told now and accept whatever your earthly fate is then you will be rewarded..........later....when you are dead. That big ol' meany is going to get it..........later........when he's dead. Let me repeat that: Justice will be served when you are dead. Just keep one foot in the grave at all times. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

the failure of judaism to embrace the Pie in the Sky has caused it to fail as a religion. For most of its adherents.

There is no failure of Judaism. None.

Judaism failed to proselytize. Just the opposite, in fact; it harbored proclivities toward intermarriage and idolatry. Within its own framework, it was a peculiar community of people who did not participate in larger community festivals and observations, who practiced circumcision, who refused to commit to a full week of work, and who abstained from eating perfectly good foods. Judea even failed to maintain its very identity after the Roman-Jewish Wars.

They were a wayward people from whom God snatched the kingdom to give to a more productive people: the Christians (Mt 21:43).

Even modern Judaism failed to establish its own homeland. Jews could only claim land for themselves nearly 1900 years after they lost it thanks to a League of Nations mandate. Modern Israel has little if any connection to its ancient past. It is merely a political state that has yet to rebuild its temple or renew its covenant with God.

No.

 

[Taz]

So why are you against contraception?

Again, who said I was?

Deny it then.

Deny what?

I'm not against contraception.

If you feel so strongly about it why aren't you doing something about it?

Just checking to see how crazy you are. You passed that test.

Because I don't see anything wrong with using contraception?

Or is it because I believe you are all fur coat and no knickers when it comes to contraception.

If you feel so strongly about contraception, then do something about it.

I do, my gf uses the pill.