It’s official: Trump condones murder of Washpo journalist

[B. Kidd]

When I see thread after thread at this forum, started by people like the OP of this one....I can't help but wonder where all the intelligent people have gone.

Notice -- these partisans just attack and never offer THEIR Mid East policy plans. I'd be floored if they did. Our mid east policy has sucked under BOTH parties for 35 years. Made the same mistake of either supporting DESPOTS and shotgun waving dictators, or DEPOSING them.

Which ones does BlackFlag like? OR -- is it possible, we should admit our failures and disasters in that region and leave them to destroy each other. Which is their normal historical state of affairs.

But don't CRY like a baby when the Shia or Sunni Caliphate is reconstituted ala the Ottoman Empire. That's the Arab end game.

Dictators and despots are REQUIRED in those countries to keep the blood flow down. We should recognize that.

Send me an alert if ANY of these opportunist leftist baby whiners has a coherent Mid East policy. I can't waste time watching partisans blame each other for the SAME FAILED SHIT decade after decade...

The shit fails because you need to get out of the Middle East altogether. Let them all kill each other. When there's no one left, the killing will end.

But then you get wars with 37 factions fighting each other in Syria, and because the American starts wringing their hands and shedding tears over total destruction of 2/3 of Syria and the massive death tool and refugee crisis --- they DEMAND we get involved.

Or zombie nations that we created like Libya after Ghaddafi and Afghanistan where we are still committed to keeping a puppet regime in power.

It's a hard habit to break... IMO -- our role ought to be humanitarian, not aligned with the brutality and backwardness of the culture that the Mid East Arab chooses.

As far as I'm concerned the "foreign aid" that these nations receive is basically all tied to arms purchases from US military suppliers. The US is perpetuating this endless conflict and profitting from it, but US foreign aid is all too often a subsidy to the US arms industry paid for by US taxpayers.

I'm impressed.
You just increased your pay grade.
Now, advance to 'Go' related to geo-politics.

Congratulations!

 

[Care4all]

Should he attack the Saudi’s? Are ewe libtards wanting to go to war? When will ewe sign up?

Is that the only moronic action you can come up with? We have similar issues with allies before, and we have done something. Not gone to war. Now we have given authoritarians a green light to kill whomever with a check.

You gonna put the Saudi Royals in "time-out" or something? Either we learn to live with the brutality and culture of Arab allies or we disassociate from them in terms of strategic alliances and let the Mid East redesign itself into the Caliphate or Caliphates that they should really be..

Breaking ties with the Saudis would accelerate the inevitable carnage for that region. Syria was just a prelude to the balkanization to come if we stop taking sides.

I'm willing to opt out completely. But I doubt you really have the stomach to watch what happens after we stop picking winners and losers in the Mid East.

Valid concerns, but there are something like 65 other Saudi Princes that the King could put in control...

I'm not certain, if handled wisely, and with Allies, America would not get their way, and have the murderer Prince removed, while still maintaining alliances beneficial to us?

The Saudi's LOVE the USA and enjoy their 2nd and 3rd homes and condos and businesses here. I don't see them paying an arm and a leg to live like Kings in Russia and China.... and that could also factor in to it....?

 

[flacaltenn]

When I see thread after thread at this forum, started by people like the OP of this one....I can't help but wonder where all the intelligent people have gone.

Notice -- these partisans just attack and never offer THEIR Mid East policy plans. I'd be floored if they did. Our mid east policy has sucked under BOTH parties for 35 years. Made the same mistake of either supporting DESPOTS and shotgun waving dictators, or DEPOSING them.

Which ones does BlackFlag like? OR -- is it possible, we should admit our failures and disasters in that region and leave them to destroy each other. Which is their normal historical state of affairs.

But don't CRY like a baby when the Shia or Sunni Caliphate is reconstituted ala the Ottoman Empire. That's the Arab end game.

Dictators and despots are REQUIRED in those countries to keep the blood flow down. We should recognize that.

Send me an alert if ANY of these opportunist leftist baby whiners has a coherent Mid East policy. I can't waste time watching partisans blame each other for the SAME FAILED SHIT decade after decade...

The shit fails because you need to get out of the Middle East altogether. Let them all kill each other. When there's no one left, the killing will end.

But then you get wars with 37 factions fighting each other in Syria, and because the American starts wringing their hands and shedding tears over total destruction of 2/3 of Syria and the massive death tool and refugee crisis --- they DEMAND we get involved.

Or zombie nations that we created like Libya after Ghaddafi and Afghanistan where we are still committed to keeping a puppet regime in power.

It's a hard habit to break... IMO -- our role ought to be humanitarian, not aligned with the brutality and backwardness of the culture that the Mid East Arab chooses.

As far as I'm concerned the "foreign aid" that these nations receive is basically all tied to arms purchases from US military suppliers. The US is perpetuating this endless conflict and profitting from it, but US foreign aid is all too often a subsidy to the US arms industry paid for by US taxpayers.

It's an international market in armament. Their money is good elsewhere. They WILL get the arms. How do you want to play that? Only rules of the game are dependability. If you're not committed to "their side", you won't get the sales.

That's a boycott on principles that won't stop the carnage.. BUT -- it IS an option for the US..
It's super complicated. Because it's easier for Jordan and Egypt and Saudi to form strategic alliances with our only "non-dictator" option for ally in the region -- Israel.. If the US trains and supplies their defensive arms.

 

[flacaltenn]

Valid concerns, but there are something like 65 other Saudi Princes that the King could put in control...

Put in control? Because our noses are out of joint with their brutality? Is that a demand you want to make as a condition of support? Dictating borders and leadership is how we've WRECKED the Middle East for the past 35 years..

 

[Karl Rand]

When I see thread after thread at this forum, started by people like the OP of this one....I can't help but wonder where all the intelligent people have gone.

Do you know what an ad hominem argument is?

Valid concerns, but there are something like 65 other Saudi Princes that the King could put in control...

Put in control? Because our noses are out of joint with their brutality? Is that a demand you want to make as a condition of support? Dictating borders and leadership is how we've WRECKED the Middle East for the past 35 years..

Can we all stop pretending Saudi Arabia or Russia or Trumpmerica are morally inferior to any other branch of our species. Human nature is the central problem we all face. No specific ideology can solve the central problem of a species whose agressive tribal instincts are well equiped by a technology that can and probably will wipe us all off the planet. That we now have a raving lunatic in Whitehouse may add to the problem but removing him won’t add much to our chances of survival. There will be sufficient monsters left to take over and sufficient foreign leaders to fight with them . Be very afraid children.

 

[flacaltenn]

When I see thread after thread at this forum, started by people like the OP of this one....I can't help but wonder where all the intelligent people have gone.

Do you know what an ad hominem argument is?

Valid concerns, but there are something like 65 other Saudi Princes that the King could put in control...

Put in control? Because our noses are out of joint with their brutality? Is that a demand you want to make as a condition of support? Dictating borders and leadership is how we've WRECKED the Middle East for the past 35 years..

Can we all stop pretending Saudi Arabia or Russia or Trumpmerica are morally inferior to any other branch of our species. Human nature is the central problem we all face. No specific ideology can solve the central problem of a species whose agressive tribal instincts are well equiped by a technology that can and probably will wipe us all off the planet. That we now have a raving lunatic in Whitehouse may add to the problem but removing him won’t add much to our chances of survival. There will be sufficient monsters left to take over and sufficient foreign leaders to fight with them . Be very afraid children.

There are however, deep and clear cultural divides between the Arab Mid East and the rest of the world. It's not judgemental to acknowledge that. And instead of us ATTEMPTING to change their preferences, we should probably just STFU about "sanctioning" brutality or justice that we find inferior.

That's what the left is doing here. Opportunistically using this cultural divide to win some temporary coup points against their Trumpian nemesis. When in FACT -- its THEM who are demanding we scold them or shun them for being Arabs.

 

[Dan Stubbs]

President Donald Trump signaled Tuesday that he will not take strong action against Saudi Arabia or its Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman for the death and dismemberment of Washington Post journalist Jamal Khashoggi.

In an exclamation-mark laden statement subtitled “America First!” Trump said that “our intelligence agencies continue to assess all information, but it could very well be that the Crown Prince had knowledge of this tragic event — maybe he did and maybe he didn’t!”

Trump Signals U.S. Won’t Take Punitive Measures Against Saudi Crown Prince Over Journalist’s Killing

Pretty much since day 1 the priority of Trump’s administration has been to help Saudi Arabia get away with murdering this journalist. I wonder what he’ll do next time Putin kills somebody.

Remember Trump campaigning on forcing Saudi Arabia to go to trial for 9/11? Yeah, if you believed that, I bet you still believe Mexico’s going to pay for a wall.

 

[Dragonlady]

When I see thread after thread at this forum, started by people like the OP of this one....I can't help but wonder where all the intelligent people have gone.

Notice -- these partisans just attack and never offer THEIR Mid East policy plans. I'd be floored if they did. Our mid east policy has sucked under BOTH parties for 35 years. Made the same mistake of either supporting DESPOTS and shotgun waving dictators, or DEPOSING them.

Which ones does BlackFlag like? OR -- is it possible, we should admit our failures and disasters in that region and leave them to destroy each other. Which is their normal historical state of affairs.

But don't CRY like a baby when the Shia or Sunni Caliphate is reconstituted ala the Ottoman Empire. That's the Arab end game.

Dictators and despots are REQUIRED in those countries to keep the blood flow down. We should recognize that.

Send me an alert if ANY of these opportunist leftist baby whiners has a coherent Mid East policy. I can't waste time watching partisans blame each other for the SAME FAILED SHIT decade after decade...

The shit fails because you need to get out of the Middle East altogether. Let them all kill each other. When there's no one left, the killing will end.

But then you get wars with 37 factions fighting each other in Syria, and because the American starts wringing their hands and shedding tears over total destruction of 2/3 of Syria and the massive death tool and refugee crisis --- they DEMAND we get involved.

Or zombie nations that we created like Libya after Ghaddafi and Afghanistan where we are still committed to keeping a puppet regime in power.

It's a hard habit to break... IMO -- our role ought to be humanitarian, not aligned with the brutality and backwardness of the culture that the Mid East Arab chooses.

le
As far as I'm concerned the "foreign aid" that these nations receive is basically all tied to arms purchases from US military suppliers. The US is perpetuating this endless conflict and profitting from it, but US foreign aid is all too often a subsidy to the US arms industry paid for by US taxpayers.

I'm impressed.
You just increased your pay grade.
Now, advance to 'Go' related to geo-politics.

Congratulations!

This isn't the first time I've said this. Back in the early 1980's I did a contract with a large international Catholic charity which send aid workers to some of the worst places in the world. It was there that this hippy peacenik found out how the world really works. I learned about foreign aid, and how little humanitarian aid ends up in the hands of the people, and how much of it is diverted by government agencies to the black market and sold for money to buy arms. The practice is referred to as "Turning plowshares into swords".

It was my job, when the Director and Assistant Director were away, to review and handle anything that arose in their correspondence. In that capacity, I received a letter from someone in El Salvador which contained an English translation of the confession from one of the men who participated in the rape and murder of four Catholic nuns/missionaries, in El Salvador in 1980. It is a document I can never unsee or forget. After I finished reading it, I went to the washroom, and threw up. Since then, I have been very "woke" to all of the shit that goes on in the world. That entire contract was an education to the horror of what goes on in foreign policy throughout the world.

1980 murders of U.S. missionaries in El Salvador - Wikipedia

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

That's what the left is doing here.

Such overwrought nonsense....the condemnation is coming from both sides of the aisle, including the vice president.

 

[Hossfly]

When I see thread after thread at this forum, started by people like the OP of this one....I can't help but wonder where all the intelligent people have gone.

Do you know what an ad hominem argument is?

Valid concerns, but there are something like 65 other Saudi Princes that the King could put in control...

Put in control? Because our noses are out of joint with their brutality? Is that a demand you want to make as a condition of support? Dictating borders and leadership is how we've WRECKED the Middle East for the past 35 years..

Can we all stop pretending Saudi Arabia or Russia or Trumpmerica are morally inferior to any other branch of our species. Human nature is the central problem we all face. No specific ideology can solve the central problem of a species whose agressive tribal instincts are well equiped by a technology that can and probably will wipe us all off the planet. That we now have a raving lunatic in Whitehouse may add to the problem but removing him won’t add much to our chances of survival. There will be sufficient monsters left to take over and sufficient foreign leaders to fight with them . Be very afraid children.

Evening prayer:

Thank you Baby Jesus for blessing us with yet another Trump worshiper. Amen.

 

[flacaltenn]

Notice -- these partisans just attack and never offer THEIR Mid East policy plans. I'd be floored if they did. Our mid east policy has sucked under BOTH parties for 35 years. Made the same mistake of either supporting DESPOTS and shotgun waving dictators, or DEPOSING them.

Which ones does BlackFlag like? OR -- is it possible, we should admit our failures and disasters in that region and leave them to destroy each other. Which is their normal historical state of affairs.

But don't CRY like a baby when the Shia or Sunni Caliphate is reconstituted ala the Ottoman Empire. That's the Arab end game.

Dictators and despots are REQUIRED in those countries to keep the blood flow down. We should recognize that.

Send me an alert if ANY of these opportunist leftist baby whiners has a coherent Mid East policy. I can't waste time watching partisans blame each other for the SAME FAILED SHIT decade after decade...

The shit fails because you need to get out of the Middle East altogether. Let them all kill each other. When there's no one left, the killing will end.

But then you get wars with 37 factions fighting each other in Syria, and because the American starts wringing their hands and shedding tears over total destruction of 2/3 of Syria and the massive death tool and refugee crisis --- they DEMAND we get involved.

Or zombie nations that we created like Libya after Ghaddafi and Afghanistan where we are still committed to keeping a puppet regime in power.

It's a hard habit to break... IMO -- our role ought to be humanitarian, not aligned with the brutality and backwardness of the culture that the Mid East Arab chooses.

le
As far as I'm concerned the "foreign aid" that these nations receive is basically all tied to arms purchases from US military suppliers. The US is perpetuating this endless conflict and profitting from it, but US foreign aid is all too often a subsidy to the US arms industry paid for by US taxpayers.

I'm impressed.
You just increased your pay grade.
Now, advance to 'Go' related to geo-politics.

Congratulations!

This isn't the first time I've said this. Back in the early 1980's I did a contract with a large international Catholic charity which send aid workers to some of the worst places in the world. It was there that this hippy peacenik found out how the world really works. I learned about foreign aid, and how little humanitarian aid ends up in the hands of the people, and how much of it is diverted by government agencies to the black market and sold for money to buy arms. The practice is referred to as "Turning plowshares into swords".

It was my job, when the Director and Assistant Director were away, to review and handle anything that arose in their correspondence. In that capacity, I received a letter from someone in El Salvador which contained an English translation of the confession from one of the men who participated in the rape and murder of four Catholic nuns/missionaries, in El Salvador in 1980. It is a document I can never unsee or forget. After I finished reading it, I went to the washroom, and threw up. Since then, I have been very "woke" to all of the shit that goes on in the world. That entire contract was an education to the horror of what goes on in foreign policy throughout the world.

1980 murders of U.S. missionaries in El Salvador - Wikipedia

Bravo... So you know how hard it is to try change foreign ways and cultures personally.

What's absurd is -- we can't even fix OUR cultural and political differences here at home. And we got hosts of activist partisan party animals calling for interfering with OTHER govts that don't even begin to resemble anything we can comprehend..

 

[joaquinmiller]

In Extraordinary Statement, Trump Stands With Saudis Despite Khashoggi Killing

Trump okayed Khashoggi's murder, after the fact. Do you think anyone noticed?

What made you think journalists anywhere outside the ME would be off limits in case they might inconvenience the Trumpy or his sugar daddies?

But, you have to marvel at the good old NYT - describing the Trumpy as ...

... "remorselessly transactional, heedless of allies, determined to put America’s interests first".​

Just comparing the latter, bolded, with the former part should give anyone with a hint of sense a stroke, or something. There is a hint right there why the press doesn't find the adequate language to expose that incompetent, ineducable lout.

Yeah, I was trying to tone it down a bit, by saying ME journalists. He took pains to invoke the "enemy of the people" tag he applies to the free press. You'd have to be a Trump cultist not to notice.

Good catch on the Times catapulting that particular bit of propaganda. Were I to entertain the absurdity of America's interest coinciding with Trump's, it still raises the question of what Trump wouldn't sell for a buck

 

[Care4all]

Valid concerns, but there are something like 65 other Saudi Princes that the King could put in control...

Put in control? Because our noses are out of joint with their brutality? Is that a demand you want to make as a condition of support? Dictating borders and leadership is how we've WRECKED the Middle East for the past 35 years..

I can see it already.... much like the pictures of Rumsfeld joyfully with Saddam resurfacing as president Bush tried to explain why we chose to go to war with Iraq/Saddam, only today.. with the video of the joyous interactions of Pompeo with the savage Prince right after he had Khasoggi brutally chopped in to pieces, resurfacing when America... out of the blue decides the Saudi prince and Saudi's are brutal and we go and invade them and start a war with them, when we no longer need them.... much like with the brutal Hussein...

who are we as Americans? Are we really scum and don't believe in Human rights....? Not even enough to at least try to fake it?

Every future journalist killed by other foreign dictators, is now on OUR SHOULDERS as giving the A-OK for these dictators to do it by this President.... giving alibis for the Murderer from the beginning imo.

 

[flacaltenn]

That's what the left is doing here.

Such overwrought nonsense....the condemnation is coming from both sides of the aisle, including the vice president.

GREAT!!!! BOTH SIDES want to run a blitz on Saudi Royalty and shun them. That's just brilliantly moronic policy.

Even if we stopped selling them arms, we are duty bound to RESPECT THEM and their differences and be courteous in any diplomatic/business dealings we end up in. Can your side do THAT? Don't think so.. You folks have this nanny tendencies to want to use power to meddle in any behavior that you don't like.

So give your line-up of allies in the Caliphate wars. Or YOUR policy on dictators you don't like. You KNOW -- if you start chucking backwards, dictatorial countries out of Uncle Sam's club, they WILL GO ELSEWHERE. And pretty soon, you will have succeeded in ISOLATING America even more than being simply nationalistic.

 

[Care4all]

Globalism was suppose to be about us spreading our values throughout the world to repressive and barbaic places....

instead, the barbarians have made us complicit in their barbaric values.... what a damn shame....

 

[deanrd]

Trump was asked who he believed?

Our intel community or a lying Saudi Prince.?

He said he wanted to put America first, so he believes the prince.

So clearly, America is first. Right behind Russia, North Korea and Saudi Arabia.

 

[Doc1]

Globalism was suppose to be about us spreading our values throughout the world to repressive and barbaic places....

instead, the barbarians have made us complicit in their barbaric values.... what a damn shame....

Bullshit. You have no idea what "Globalism" is.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

So that's the only option you think the "Master Deal Maker" can come up with? Wow, you apparently think Trump is pretty stupid. Well, you're right,he is.

What ewe want him to dew?

Take a long walk off a short pier, for one...

Poor ewe.

My comment was so good ewe felt the need to reply twice. Nice.

So I guess ewe can’t find the ignore button huh? You got over that rather quickly!

How could I ever ignore ewe, WillowTree? I find ewe adorable, with a capital 'A'.

 

[pismoe]

In Extraordinary Statement, Trump Stands With Saudis Despite Khashoggi Killing

Trump okayed Khashoggi's murder, after the fact. Do you think anyone noticed?

What made you think journalists anywhere outside the ME would be off limits in case they might inconvenience the Trumpy or his sugar daddies?

But, you have to marvel at the good old NYT - describing the Trumpy as ...

... "remorselessly transactional, heedless of allies, determined to put America’s interests first".​

Just comparing the latter, bolded, with the former part should give anyone with a hint of sense a stroke, or something. There is a hint right there why the press doesn't find the adequate language to expose that incompetent, ineducable lout.

Yeah, I was trying to tone it down a bit, by saying ME journalists. He took pains to invoke the "enemy of the people" tag he applies to the free press. You'd have to be a Trump cultist not to notice.

Good catch on the Times catapulting that particular bit of propaganda. Were I to entertain the absurdity of America's interest coinciding with Trump's, it still raises the question of what Trump wouldn't sell for a buck

--------------------------------------- Sell for a BUCK . --- Its my thinking that 72 year old Billionaire TRUMP could not care less about money for himself as he has enough money . The only mention of money would be money made for Americans and the American Weapons producers and those companies employees that will make some money making some Weapons JMiller . ----------------- as regards 'journalists' , feck'em if 'journalism' is getting too dangerous for them JMiller .

 

[flacaltenn]

Valid concerns, but there are something like 65 other Saudi Princes that the King could put in control...

Put in control? Because our noses are out of joint with their brutality? Is that a demand you want to make as a condition of support? Dictating borders and leadership is how we've WRECKED the Middle East for the past 35 years..

I can see it already.... much like the pictures of Rumsfeld joyfully with Saddam resurfacing as president Bush tried to explain why we chose to go to war with Iraq/Saddam, only today.. with the video of the joyous interactions of Pompeo with the savage Prince right after he had Khasoggi brutally chopped in to pieces, resurfacing when America... out of the blue decides the Saudi prince and Saudi's are brutal and we go and invade them and start a war with them, when we no longer need them.... much like with the brutal Hussein...

who are we as Americans? Are we really scum and don't believe in Human rights....? Not even enough to at least try to fake it?

Every future journalist killed by other foreign dictators, is now on OUR SHOULDERS as giving the A-OK for these dictators to do it by this President.... giving alibis for the Murderer from the beginning imo.

What kind of justice you want to IMPOSE on this sovereign foreign government? YOUR sense of justice?

Journalists are people. Murder is universally accepted as wrong. There's gonna be no genocidal wave against journalists. Priorities on murdering people in foreign countries should be:


1) Any American Leader or high ranking official.
2) Any other American..
3) any member of a persecuted minority big enough to fill a stadium.

And that's it. Journalists have about the same part of my compassion as the Christian woman in Pakistan who was facing execution for blasphemy and was saved by international pressure. But NOW the government can't protect her from retribution by MILLIONS of Islamic Pakis that want her dead.

ALL THAT WORK - to keep the Pakis from being brutal.. It reminds me of that injured seal release that the wildlife rescuers filmed LIVE on TV getting eaten by a shark within minutes of the glorious moment.