It's Official: Trump Appeals $355 Million Ruling in New York Civil Fraud Case -- February 26, 2024

[jc456]

So?

Not a requirement or a part of the case.

The state showed the persistent fraudulent and illegal business practices. That was the relevant part of the case.

WW

sure it is, they didn't bring charges. still living in Venezuela huh?

 

[Rawley]

No it's not, it's restitution for illegally gains profits. That's what disgorgement is.

WW

Restitution means the victims are paid back what the defendant took from them. Again, the "victims" testified they weren't defrauded and nothing was taken from them.

 

[BackAgain]

I am sure your argument will be breathlessly compelling to the appellate court.

I don’t care what you are sarcastically sure of.

Obviously, you aren’t able to address it yourself. And that’s ok. But, then, maybe I merely overestimated you.

 

[para bellum]

All findings are "punitive" when viewed by the defendant.

This penalty is punitive to any objective observer.

Kokesh had to do with limitations on the SEC under federal law, but this is a state law case and they Judge was very careful to base the amount using a process testified to by an expert witness.

A State cannot over-ride the Federal Statute of limitations on civil actions, that's a USSC ruling. Even if you win the argument for the penalty, you can't reach back prior to 2018 without running into the 8th amendment.

I said earlier in this thread (or one of the others on the subject), I could see the amount being reduced maybe 15-30%, but the case is unlikely to be overturned the facts. Oh and the barring of being a corporate officer for 3-years will likely be upheld as a punitive action.

WW

I would say SCOTUS has been increasingly skeptical of civil asset forfeitures in recent years, and I read that they are looking for a case to better clarify what is and isn't permissible in that area.

They've made some pretty unfavorable comments about the increasing use of disgorgement and civil forfeitures as funding sources for agencies and local governments.

I also think that whatever happens at this appeal, the loser will appeal to the Court of Appeals, and the loser there will appeal to the USSC and that's where it will be settled.

 

[Freedomisneverfree]

The eighth amendment to the constitution forbids excessive fines and forfeitures in civil cases. The SCOTUS already ruled (9-0) on this in Timbs vs Indiana (2019). The state cannot assess excessive fines.


Trump will win on that alone.

Donald Trump Appeals $355 Million Ruling in New York Civil Fraud Case

Former President Donald Trump filed a notice of appeal Monday in the matter of the New York civil judgment finding him liable for fraudulently inflating his net worth on years of financial statements.

www.breitbart.com

I love it!!!!

 

[Zincwarrior]

I don’t care what you are sarcastically sure of.

Obviously, you aren’t able to address it yourself. And that’s ok. But, then, maybe I merely overestimated you.

This is an internet chatboard. Your brilliant legal analysis appears wasted. I know there were were law firms and judges involved but you have definitely clarified the issue. You should work up the appeal.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

It's so entertaining when MAGAs gets hopeful.

Their ignorance is just as entertaining.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

oh cool, so who is the victim?

More ignorance from the right.

‘[Trump] believes there should be no case because "there was no crime".
[…]
Under this New York statute, however, the attorney general did not have to show that there were victims, only that Mr Trump committed ongoing fraud.’

Fact-checking Trump's claims about New York fraud trial

Outside court, Mr Trump raged against the prosecutor and judge. We took a closer look at what he said.

www.bbc.com

 

[jc456]

This is an internet chatboard. Your brilliant legal analysis appears wasted. I know there were were law firms and judges involved but you have definitely clarified the issue. You should work up the appeal.

We had a financial institution that said there’s no issue. How do you get passed no victim?

 

[jc456]

‘[Trump] believes there should be no case because "there was no crime

Yep, that’s how it works in America

 

[jc456]

More ignorance from the right.

‘[Trump] believes there should be no case because "there was no crime".
[…]
Under this New York statute, however, the attorney general did not have to show that there were victims, only that Mr Trump committed ongoing fraud.’

Fact-checking Trump's claims about New York fraud trial

Outside court, Mr Trump raged against the prosecutor and judge. We took a closer look at what he said.

www.bbc.com

What was the fraud? Who did it hurt

 

[Arlette]

What was the fraud? Who did it hurt

Trump's sweetheart deals hurt everybody who didn't get one

 

[jc456]

Trump's sweetheart deals hurt everybody who didn't get one

Explain

 

[Arlette]

Explain

No. In James' calculation Trump enriched himself by ca 250 million dollars by falsifying business records and Trump couldn't prove otherwise

 

[jc456]

No. In James' calculation Trump enriched himself by ca 250 million dollars by falsifying business records and Trump couldn't prove otherwise

How so? He had to repay the loan! The bank made the money

 

[Arlette]

How so? He had to repay the loan! The bank made the money

Nobody needs a habitual fraud in any industry just like nobody needs a habitual drunk driving

 

[Oldestyle]

New York Law 62(12) authorizes the AG to file such civil suits for the people of New York.

WW

So the "people of New York" suffered a loss on the deal between Trump and those banks? Would you like to explain how that happened, WW?

 

[Oldestyle]

If the Bank is prepared to loan you $500,000 because you say your income is $100,000 annually, but its really $25,000 thats fraud.

Let's say the bank DID loan you $500,000 and then you repaid that loan on time and with the interest agreed to. Where is the fraud?

 

[BackAgain]

This is an internet chatboard. Your brilliant legal analysis appears wasted. I know there were were law firms and judges involved but you have definitely clarified the issue. You should work up the appeal.

Zzz

I know it’s a message board.

I thought you did too.

But since you’re got no game, you just go with your lame ass sarcasm.

 

[martybegan]

No it's not, it's restitution for illegally gains profits. That's what disgorgement is.

WW

That's the word for it, the application of it is an end run around criminal law.