It's High Time The Churches Began To Do The Fair Thing

[California Girl]

my church, and all the churches in our town, get a lower electrical rate than does everybody else. recently, the town wanted to start charging the churches the same rate. many of the ministers got together and presented their case and our town decided to keep them at a lower rate for now (but i have a feeling that they'll be paying the same rate in the not to distant future).

I think it's really important to consider not just the building and the money that any church brings in, but what it does with that money. Sure, they could pay taxes... but at what cost to the country? Personally, I doubt very much whether their taxes could cover the amount that any government (state or federal) would have to spend to pick up the slack caused by the Churches not having the money to do all the good work they do.

The figures just do not add up. But idiots prefer to rant instead of applying some critical thought and study to the issue.

 

[CaughtInTheMid]

i think one thing that irritates some people about the church's tax exempt status, is the few church leaders that are corrupt (and use the church as a tax shelter). i can understand that and feel the same way. it's the same feeling i get when i sit in church and see a guy i know who is cheating on his wife or the woman i know who cheats her customers every chance she gets (but most don't even know). it's the slime balls, which you can find in any industry, that make people leery.

i can also understand the frustration of some people when the church gets really big and pays no tax. regardless of the benefit to the community, they want a level playing field for the mega churches (although i'm not saying that that's my opinion). it's an interesting debate.

 

[California Girl]

i think one thing that irritates some people about the church's tax exempt status, is the few church leaders that are corrupt (and use the church as a tax shelter). i can understand that and feel the same way. it's the same feeling i get when i sit in church and see a guy i know who is cheating on his wife or the woman i know who cheats her customers every chance she gets (but most don't even know). it's the slime balls, which you can find in any industry, that make people leery.

i can also understand the frustration of some people when the church gets really big and pays no tax. regardless of the benefit to the community, they want a level playing field for the mega churches (although i'm not saying that that's my opinion). it's an interesting debate.

I agree, there are many churches who use their tax exempt status for their own ends.... and I feel the same way that most people would... that that is not acceptable.

Having said that, most of the mainstream churches - such as the Catholic Church - do not. If, say, the Catholic Church had to pay US taxes, they would no longer be able to afford to deliver the services that they currently deliver for free. Given that they are second only to the US Government as a provider of social services.... just imagine the damage that would do across the country. It doesn't make business sense. Those services would still need to be delivered... and at a much greater financial cost. The figures don't add up.

 

[AmericanFirst]

Atheists United is a 501(c)(3) not-for-profit organization

Atheists for Humanity, a 501 c(3) charity non-profit

American Atheists, Inc. (Official) - Non-Profit Organization


NYC Atheists is a non-profit, non-partisan educational association

Ya get it, yet?

Do ya?

Well do ya?

We get that you are an idiot.

 

[AmericanFirst]

If by that you mean it's only been a few hundred years since Christians have been actively supporting their scriptures, then you may have a point.

No, I mean when you say freedom OF religion, I assume you are talking about the right to persue your own religion. Up until the past couple of hundred years (and even a lot more recent than that) if you were a heretic, you were in all sorts of trouble. Salem witch trials, medieval Europe, inquisition etc, reformation

Well that's because medieval Europeean Christian didn't have access to the Bible and so didn't understand the Christian viewpoint on the matter.

They didn't have access to the Bible because the catholic church was ruthless in its views that the people should do what the catholic church said or else. If it wasn't for Martin Luther many of us protestants would not know the real truth.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I am not wrong. If me praying in public or a gov't. building bothers you, that is your problem, not mine.

Yes, you are absolutely wrong and outside of the law. Act at your own risk.

In what way is it illegal to pray in public?

When you are in a government or work space and you disrupt other's work or personnel space.

I can give you an example how to do it legally.

Pray quietly, pray daily, pray in your heart, let your daily walk be your prayer in public.

See, not hard.

 

[JohnA]

Yes, you are absolutely wrong and outside of the law. Act at your own risk.

In what way is it illegal to pray in public?

When you are in a government or work space and you disrupt other's work or personnel space.

I can give you an example how to do it legally.

Pray quietly, pray daily, pray in your heart, let your daily walk be your prayer in public.

See, not hard.

you are correct anybody can pray anytime quetly and it doesnt disrupt anybody else and if there is a god he knows your praying to him dont have to broadcast it though out the community BTW doesnt the bible say you should pray in a closet ???





Matthew 6:5-6

King James Version (KJV)

5And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

6But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.


look at it this way if we allow chriatian to pray at work we must allow muslims to get down on their praying mat face east and pray and we must allow jews to face a wall and wail (sp )
your only thinking of the christian ritual for prayer when you include all the others in that* right *you have a mess of folks in public building making noise singing chanting and disturbing others
our city like many others have found a exceptable solution in a 2 minute silence at each meeting
you can pray to which god you choose ** or not** and nobody is offended
why do some religions chose to be in others people faces all the time it doesnt lend credance to their couse

 

[strollingbones]

do you for some reason think that is how all jews pray? you would be wrong.

 

[JohnA]

it appalls me when anyone wants to destroy art and as much as campbell hates it..the crosses on the hwys are art and its my understanding that the man doing it....has permission from private land owners......hell i dont believe in that god but if he came here and ask to put the crosses at the top of my land i would say yes....as much as they are religious they are art...as much as they are art they are beacons.....to many they are re assurances....as they travel.....

It seems as thought what should be the most tolerant country in the world is becoming one of the least tolerant.

As an interesting aside to this, last year local Muslims applied for permission for a mosque not far from me. There was a petition going round to stop them - the main issue appeared to be the noise of the 'call to prayer'. I was asked to sign the petition. I told them to come back in a few days so I could consider whether I would sign. In the end I decided that, much as I didn't particularly want to hear their call to prayer, their right to practice their faith outweighs my own personal desire to not here their calls. After all, the Church of England rings it's bells every Sunday morning. As do the Catholics. So I figured the Muslims had the same rights as we do. I didn't sign. We really need to learn to practice what we preach. I support your right to live as you choose. And if that sometimes impacts on me, so be it.

althou we disagree on a lot of things i agree with your stance on this

 

[JohnA]

do you for some reason think that is how all jews pray? you would be wrong.

i dont now exactly just trying to make example to my point being that all religions have differant rituals to pray to thier god
non of which should be practiced to couse a annoyance disruption to others respect other faiths as you would expect them to respect yours
do you not like the idea of a 2 minute silence so everybody can each his own ?

 

[California Girl]

it appalls me when anyone wants to destroy art and as much as campbell hates it..the crosses on the hwys are art and its my understanding that the man doing it....has permission from private land owners......hell i dont believe in that god but if he came here and ask to put the crosses at the top of my land i would say yes....as much as they are religious they are art...as much as they are art they are beacons.....to many they are re assurances....as they travel.....

It seems as thought what should be the most tolerant country in the world is becoming one of the least tolerant.

As an interesting aside to this, last year local Muslims applied for permission for a mosque not far from me. There was a petition going round to stop them - the main issue appeared to be the noise of the 'call to prayer'. I was asked to sign the petition. I told them to come back in a few days so I could consider whether I would sign. In the end I decided that, much as I didn't particularly want to hear their call to prayer, their right to practice their faith outweighs my own personal desire to not here their calls. After all, the Church of England rings it's bells every Sunday morning. As do the Catholics. So I figured the Muslims had the same rights as we do. I didn't sign. We really need to learn to practice what we preach. I support your right to live as you choose. And if that sometimes impacts on me, so be it.

althou we disagree on a lot of things i agree with your stance on this

It is easy to stand by your beliefs when you don't have to put your money where your mouth is and do something that you would prefer not to do. But, to me, that is fundamentally part of being an American - even in England. Just because I currently live outside the country does not mean I should not practice the fundamental principles of the country.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Churches who recieive federal money should pay taxes.

 

[JohnA]

You don't like the Christian-based United States of America - move your Commie ass to Tehran, asswipe.

if you dont like the freedom to express a dislike towards those who put chrisitanity * in your face * take a hike bigot

i see the picture here we have CALIFORNIA GIRL handing me a *neg * for this post.

If i have anything to say to any poster here i say it on the thread not hide behind the neg option which many of us dont use even if we have enough **power ** to do so.

seems like chriistians wonder why they are targeted and this is one of the reasons why
she can call everybody she disagrees with a *idiot * her buddies can tell a poster to * leave and go to another country * yet i cant reply to him in the same way without california girl meddling and posting snide remarks (neg ) on my page .

lets have no more of this if you want to say something say it where we can all respond remember what jesus said and try to follow his teaching if you want to be taken seriously

 

[JakeStarkey]

JohnA, it is what it is. This board is not about playing fair, and I guarantee your complaint will get you nowhere. Having said that, you categorized CaliGirl absolutely correctly when it comes to this type of thing. She reminds, when she does it, of Frank Sinatra hiding behind his body guards after he popped somebody with a cheap shot. Like I said tis what tis. Oh, CG, go for it: I can take anything you throw at me and you know it.

 

[JohnA]

JohnA, it is what it is. This board is not about playing fair, and I guarantee your complaint will get you nowhere. Having said that, you categorized CaliGirl absolutely correctly when it comes to this type of thing. She reminds, when she does it, of Frank Sinatra hiding behind his body guards after he popped somebody with a cheap shot. Like I said tis what tis. Oh, CG, go for it: I can take anything you throw at me and you know it.

of course i know its what it is playing fair is hard to find in this world
just mentioned it to let folks know the **goodies * on this board are NOT always what they appear to be
glad your one of us who is savvy enough to recognize it

 

[JohnA]

Atheists United is a 501(c)(3) not-for-profit organization

Atheists for Humanity, a 501 c(3) charity non-profit

American Atheists, Inc. (Official) - Non-Profit Organization


NYC Atheists is a non-profit, non-partisan educational association

Ya get it, yet?

Do ya?

Well do ya?

Atheism is a non prophet org .

 

[Douger]

It seems as thought what should be the most tolerant country in the world is becoming one of the least tolerant.

As an interesting aside to this, last year local Muslims applied for permission for a mosque not far from me. There was a petition going round to stop them - the main issue appeared to be the noise of the 'call to prayer'. I was asked to sign the petition. I told them to come back in a few days so I could consider whether I would sign. In the end I decided that, much as I didn't particularly want to hear their call to prayer, their right to practice their faith outweighs my own personal desire to not here their calls. After all, the Church of England rings it's bells every Sunday morning. As do the Catholics. So I figured the Muslims had the same rights as we do. I didn't sign. We really need to learn to practice what we preach. I support your right to live as you choose. And if that sometimes impacts on me, so be it.

althou we disagree on a lot of things i agree with your stance on this

It is easy to stand by your beliefs when you don't have to put your money where your mouth is and do something that you would prefer not to do. But, to me, that is fundamentally part of being an American - even in England. Just because I currently live outside the country does not mean I should not practice the fundamental principles of the country.

Sounds like fun CG. Wanna go to the Islands, lie, cheat, gamble and have a five-sum while blasting a few 8's of Peruvian pink ?
Gawd Blass murka !
PS. No worries, we'll charge the fun to a rigged credit card.
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[Douger]

More fun !
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[Douger]

Yeeeehaw !
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