It's a False Doctrine That People Go To Heaven Immediately After Death

[Book of Jeremiah]

Or hell for that matter.

You guys do realize that don't you?

I'm here watching the service live and it's just one false doctrine after the other.

Christiandom as it's today is in a state of confusion.

My belief is that when we die our spirit is as if it were asleep awaiting for the return of Christ. Those who die have no conscious thought. We do not go to either heaven or hell immediately, that is not until final judgement by God.

I believe that people want to believe that loved ones are currently in heaven and able to look down upon us because it gives them comfort. However such belief does not appear biblically supported.

But it is barry. No body was sleeping in Abraham's bosom. Lazarus was carried there by angels, and was awake when he got there. Christ didn't sleep. He never missed a beat, and neither did the thief on the cross, no rest period being mentioned before they headed for paradise.

2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

The clay "sleeps". The soul does not. And at the rapture, the souls in Christ will be reunited with those bodies, which are made incorruptible. That takes place at the same time the living in Christ are also taken up, their bodies made incorruptible in transit.

That event will take place because we are not subject to God's wrath, and wrath is going to hit the fan when we fail to heed His warning concerning the dividing up of His land, Israel, as per the upcoming "peace treaty" we keep insisting Israel sign.

WW3 ends with Christ and HIS army, in their incorruptible bodies, returning to usher in the millennial reign of Christ. The final judgement, the White Throne Judgement, takes place after the 1,000 year reign. The earth gives up it's dead, < those who died without the gift of salvation through Christ, and they are judged while still wearing their sin.

AND I CAN"T STRESS THIS ENOUGH:
If you accept Christ, you accept Him disposing of your sin for you. All of it. THERE IS NO SIN FOR YOU TO BE JUDGED ON. You are taken right to your Father, for your coronation, because you are an heir of the Most High.
At that time, what takes place in Heaven is the BEMA JUDGEMENT of CHRIST. That is your reward party. Your GOOD DEEDS done for Christ's sake are rewarded at that time.
That is the only judgement a person covered by the blood of Christ will ever attend.

I agree, Ram. To be absent from the body is to be present with the LORD. Immediately.

Unfortunately when carnally minded people interpret the scriptures this is what happens. Sad.

-Jeri

 

[The Irish Ram]

according to the story of the transfiguration ( which I believe was a dream the disciples had after 'they fell into a deep sleep' ) Jesus is seen talking to Elijah and Moses.

This shows that heaven is already in existence and those who have earned a place in the world to come are already there.

You are unfortunately confused my brother.

You see, there are a total of THREE (3) humans in Scripture that was taken to heaven.

You just listed 2 of them, the third is Enoch, who Scripture says "walked with God until God took him."

Genesis 5:24 KJV - And Enoch walked with God: and he was - Bible Gateway

Those are the ONLY exceptions to the rule, they are specific and set apart from the rest.

You see, when it comes to the Scripture, you should take it as what it is, not for what you think or have been taught it to be.

If this is a new concept for you, I understand how you're confused, but Scripture couldn't be more clear on the matter.

I've already posted a text from Leviticus I believe where God warns the Israelites NOT to consult those who claim to talk to the dead. The passage goes into why, it has to do with the state of the dead that they know nothing, no longer in existence, not in heaven, hell or anywhere else looking down or up...just like I said in the OP.

Study the Scripture my brother, you'll see the light.

Hmm. Thanks. Talking with people who are in the kingdom of heaven is not talking with people who are dead. God is the God of the living in this world and the next.

I just read the part where Jesus tells the Pharisees that sinners and prostitutes were entering the kingdom of heaven before them, and they were not dead or floating up into the sky.

Let there be light.

Actually Hob is right, except for the sleeping part. The disciples were wide awake.
And to prove Hob's point, Moses was there.

Moses was not raptured. Enoch and Elijah were. Moses died, and his terrestrial part was buried by God Himself. Proof that the soul lives on, and where it lives on, and that we as souls are capable of hovering or floating in other dimensions, and that we have business to attend to after the body succumbs. Death is not the end. Moses proved that.

Enoch and Elijah are a completely different scenario. Becoming more spiritual than human, both were removed from earth alive.
And because of

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die.....

I believe it will be Enoch and Elijah that will be returning as the 2 prophets of God that are killed and left in the street for the world to watch as the are raised from the dead 3 and 1/2 days later. Moses has already fulfilled Heb. 9:27.


Marc had a glimpse of his soul being separated from his body. While his body was in distress, in a specific location, his soul was without distress, and hovering in the presence of his mother's home.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Hi Jeri! Nice to see you.

I've already posted a text from Leviticus I believe where God warns the Israelites NOT to consult those who claim to talk to the dead.

Marc, Why? If the dead no longer exist, why would a warning from God be necessary? Unless it is to avoid the conjuring up of the spirits of the dead...

The second death is what Christians are not appointed to. The second death is the sentence handed out at the White Throne Judgement to those who died in their sin. Their fate is the second death.
Avoid it at all cost. This is your escape:
I believe that Christ is the Son of God, and that He cleansed me of all unrighteousness. I live in Christ because He lives in me. And I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever. Amen.

 

[hortysir]

You are unfortunately confused my brother.

You see, there are a total of THREE (3) humans in Scripture that was taken to heaven.

You just listed 2 of them, the third is Enoch, who Scripture says "walked with God until God took him."

Genesis 5:24 KJV - And Enoch walked with God: and he was - Bible Gateway

Those are the ONLY exceptions to the rule, they are specific and set apart from the rest.

You see, when it comes to the Scripture, you should take it as what it is, not for what you think or have been taught it to be.

If this is a new concept for you, I understand how you're confused, but Scripture couldn't be more clear on the matter.

I've already posted a text from Leviticus I believe where God warns the Israelites NOT to consult those who claim to talk to the dead. The passage goes into why, it has to do with the state of the dead that they know nothing, no longer in existence, not in heaven, hell or anywhere else looking down or up...just like I said in the OP.

Study the Scripture my brother, you'll see the light.

Hmm. Thanks. Talking with people who are in the kingdom of heaven is not talking with people who are dead. God is the God of the living in this world and the next.

I just read the part where Jesus tells the Pharisees that sinners and prostitutes were entering the kingdom of heaven before them, and they were not dead or floating up into the sky.

Let there be light.

Actually Hob is right, except for the sleeping part. The disciples were wide awake.
And to prove Hob's point, Moses was there.

Moses was not raptured. Enoch and Elijah were. Moses died, and his terrestrial part was buried by God Himself. Proof that the soul lives on, and where it lives on, and that we as souls are capable of hovering or floating in other dimensions, and that we have business to attend to after the body succumbs. Death is not the end. Moses proved that.

Enoch and Elijah are a completely different scenario. Becoming more spiritual than human, both were removed from earth alive.
And because of

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die.....

I believe it will be Enoch and Elijah that will be returning as the 2 prophets of God that are killed and left in the street for the world to watch as the are raised from the dead 3 and 1/2 days later. Moses has already fulfilled Heb. 9:27.


Marc had a glimpse of his soul being separated from his body. While his body was in distress, in a specific location, his soul was without distress, and hovering in the presence of his mother's home.

Can we have a citation of Moses being in Heaven?
'Coz I was always taught that he wasn't

And


If there is no sadness in Heaven, why would someone think that Granny is up there looking down on us?
I got news for ya....If I'm hanging out with JC the very last thing I'd want to see would be this pitiful planet

 

[hobelim]

Hmm. Thanks. Talking with people who are in the kingdom of heaven is not talking with people who are dead. God is the God of the living in this world and the next.

I just read the part where Jesus tells the Pharisees that sinners and prostitutes were entering the kingdom of heaven before them, and they were not dead or floating up into the sky.

Let there be light.

Actually Hob is right, except for the sleeping part. The disciples were wide awake.
And to prove Hob's point, Moses was there.

Moses was not raptured. Enoch and Elijah were. Moses died, and his terrestrial part was buried by God Himself. Proof that the soul lives on, and where it lives on, and that we as souls are capable of hovering or floating in other dimensions, and that we have business to attend to after the body succumbs. Death is not the end. Moses proved that.

Enoch and Elijah are a completely different scenario. Becoming more spiritual than human, both were removed from earth alive.
And because of

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die.....

I believe it will be Enoch and Elijah that will be returning as the 2 prophets of God that are killed and left in the street for the world to watch as the are raised from the dead 3 and 1/2 days later. Moses has already fulfilled Heb. 9:27.


Marc had a glimpse of his soul being separated from his body. While his body was in distress, in a specific location, his soul was without distress, and hovering in the presence of his mother's home.

Can we have a citation of Moses being in Heaven?
'Coz I was always taught that he wasn't

First you must define heaven.

The way I see it heaven is a realm of conscious existence, the dwelling place of God. This realm exists within the boundaries of thought and action clearly defined in the divine commands. Conform to the way of life taught through the divine commands and you will enter the kingdom of heaven and remain within the sanctuary of God.

For Moses to have made contact with God while he was on earth he would have had to have entered the kingdom of heaven through the narrow gate to have stood in the presence of God.

God does not appear to those who remain outside his realm, only to those who find their way in.

God is the God of the living.

If you are a believer who has never seen or heard a single word from the living God beyond what was written about other people hearing from God in scripture then you have to accept one of two possibilities.

Either God does not exist or you have not yet come to life.

The only real way that you or anybody can be sure that Gods exists and heaven exists and that they and you are welcome in it is to rise to that level of conscious life while you still have a body to ascend in.


" the man who has received my commands - and obeys them - he it is who loves me; and he who loves me will be loved by my Father; and I will love him and disclose myself to him " John 14:21

 

[The Irish Ram]

Hob, hob, Hob.

God does not appear to those who remain outside his realm, only to those who find their way in.

^ Try to convince Saul, the Christian killer, of that.

Christ supped with the outsiders. He didn't come to heal the well.
And right off the bat you went for what you think heaven is as opposed to what the Bible says it is. And then rely on works to get you there. There is one way to Heaven and that is accepting Christ's work on the cross.
Conform, then enter= rely on your ability to conform.

This statement:

Conform to the way of life taught through the divine commands and you will enter the kingdom of heaven and remain within the sanctuary of God.

Sounds like a lot of Churches we have today. Act this way/conform, and we will find you acceptable. If conforming to a way of life through divine commands gets you into Heaven then the pharisees had it right.
Christ did the opposite. He accepted us at our worst and then sent us out to sin no more.

As for John 14:21
Did Christ disclose himself to the thief on the cross because of the thief's exemplary life style?
If you want disclosure say, "Christ come into my life. Quench me with living water, restore my soul."
You will enter heaven because of what He did for us. You conforming and obeying will come up short.

And what level of consciousness did the beggar reach that caused him to be carried to paradise by angels, or Job? Job had no idea what was going on, only that He loved God. Faith not actions saved them.

Having said that, if you want disclosure, closeness, and a personal relationship with Christ, draw close to Him, and He will draw close to you.
Obey His commands and you will be rewarded for your actions, after your arrival in Heaven. He had 2. Love God, Love your neighbor.

One of these days, you and I are going to agree on something, and the earth will tilt on it's axis.

 

[hortysir]

Still looking for the Scriptural support of Moses being with The Father....

BTQ, I make contact with God almost daily via the Holy Spirit

 

[The Irish Ram]

I don't think it's in there horty. Having been seen, we know that Moses still existed after death, but we are not told in the Bible what dimensions Moses and Elijah came from or were in when they appeared. They were all terrestrially glorified, even Christ's body was changed for the duration of the meeting.

Elijah should have come from Heaven, and Moses from Abraham's bosom. Moses should not have ascended to the Father until Christ showed up to remove them from Abraham's bosom. A momentary tear in a dimension, a temporary portal, that would have allowed them to meet and discuss the upcoming cross event?
We aren't privy to everything that occurs. In those cases, we'll find out when we get there.

 

[theword]

Hi Jeri! Nice to see you.

I've already posted a text from Leviticus I believe where God warns the Israelites NOT to consult those who claim to talk to the dead.

Marc, Why? If the dead no longer exist, why would a warning from God be necessary? Unless it is to avoid the conjuring up of the spirits of the dead...

The second death is what Christians are not appointed to. The second death is the sentence handed out at the White Throne Judgement to those who died in their sin. Their fate is the second death.
Avoid it at all cost. This is your escape:
I believe that Christ is the Son of God, and that He cleansed me of all unrighteousness. I live in Christ because He lives in me. And I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever. Amen.

This is an absolute total lie by the Roman religious leaders who produced the new testament after they killed all the true saints who knew that all God's people will be saved from their flesh as it perishes during this first age.

All the prophecies show that all God's people will be saved after this age has ended on the "Last Day". There will be a "New Heaven and Earth", which means new information without deception (New Heaven) and new flesh and physical world (New Earth) to experience life with. We won't remember anything about the first age.

Isaiah 65
16: So that he who blesses himself in the land shall bless himself by the God of truth, and he who takes an oath in the land shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten and are hid from my eyes.
17: "For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; and the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind.
18: But be glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create; for behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19: I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and be glad in my people; no more shall be heard in it the sound of weeping and the cry of distress.

 

[The Irish Ram]

There will be a "New Heaven and Earth", which means new information without deception (New Heaven)

Which implies that deception rules the day in present day Heaven. It doesn't. Truth sits at God's right hand.
Look at the first verse you quoted. What was that Isaiah said again, and again? The God of what? of what?

oh dear dear word, Earth, where peace reigns, is a new earth. New Jerusalem descending to earth is new, to Heaven and to earth.

There are two words translated as "new" in the NT. They are "neos" and "kainos." Neos is new in time, never been before, or that which has recently come into existence. Kainos means new in quality, (not time).
If you take the position that the new heavens and earth is meant in a physical way, it is inconsistent with the use of the word kainos in that context. If God destroys this earth and creates another, that would be a new (neos) earth not a new (kainos) earth. Isaiah was referring to the Law vs. Grace.
We have seen in the NT that it says we have a new (kainos) covenant in Heb. 8, a new (kainos) creation in 2 Cor. 5:17 and the church is a new (kainos) Jerusalem Rev. 21:2 and Heb. 12:22.

The world is without end, the covenant is new. Earth as it is in Heaven. Like saying, "It's a brand new day!" after you just won the lottery at 2pm.

Ephesians 3:21
Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

But thank you for being willing to die so that the rest of us could live in the new world. You'll be happy to know it is no longer necessary. Your brother already filled the position. All that is required of you is to say, "Thank you."

 

[BorisTheAnimal]

Only 144000 will go to heaven and they won't go there till Judgement day.

Everyone else will be raised from the dead and judged. Those found to be Satan's followers will remain dead forever. Those found to follower's of God or uninitiated in his teachings will be given immortal bodies to live on a restored Earth. Those uninitiated will be taught God's word.

Revelations is clear on these points.

And you chose to believe in cult founder Charles Taze Russell rather than the Bible?

 

[The Irish Ram]

Sarge, sry, but the Bible is clear.
The 144,000 are evangelizing messianic Jews who are sealed from harm during the tribulation period. They can't be killed, just like Cain.
On the other hand we have the souls of the thousands of people, that will be beheaded during the tribulation to come, that John saw in Heaven, wanting justice, prior to Christ's return.

Rev 6:9 ... I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held..

They were given white robes, and the permission to judge while ruling and reigning with Christ back down here for 1,000 years.
Heaven is crowded with souls waiting to return.

THERE ARE ONLY 2 JUDGEMENTS.
The Bema Judgement and the White Throne Judgement. If you are at the Bema Judgement you have already made it to Heaven and are being judged on those good things you did for Christ's sake, God remembers your sins no more, so you can't be judged for your sins. You have none. Being in Heaven proves that.

If you are correct, where is the thief that was on that cross? Still dead and waiting? Enoch? Elijah? Who are all those people in their glorified bodies that accompany Christ when He returns to prevent WW3 from annihilating life on earth? They are all coming back from Heaven to earth.

The other judgement you refer to does not happen for 1,000 years after Christ returns for His millennial reign. Satan is chained for the 1,00 year reign. He is disposed of for good at the White Throne Judgement. And earth will be restored to Eden status.
I think a little research will bear this out.

 

[BorisTheAnimal]

Sarge, sry, but the Bible is clear.
The 144,000 are evangelizing messianic Jews who are sealed from harm during the tribulation period. They can't be killed, just like Cain.
On the other hand we have the souls of the thousands of people, that will be beheaded during the tribulation to come, that John saw in Heaven, wanting justice, prior to Christ's return.

Rev 6:9 ... I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held..

They were given white robes, and the permission to judge while ruling and reigning with Christ back down here for 1,000 years.
Heaven is crowded with souls waiting to return.

THERE ARE ONLY 2 JUDGEMENTS.
The Bema Judgement and the White Throne Judgement. If you are at the Bema Judgement you have already made it to Heaven and are being judged on those good things you did for Christ's sake, God remembers your sins no more, so you can't be judged for your sins. You have none. Being in Heaven proves that.

If you are correct, where is the thief that was on that cross? Still dead and waiting? Enoch? Elijah? Who are all those people in their glorified bodies that accompany Christ when He returns to prevent WW3 from annihilating life on earth? They are all coming back from Heaven to earth.

The other judgement you refer to does not happen for 1,000 years after Christ returns for His millennial reign. Satan is chained for the 1,00 year reign. He is disposed of for good at the White Throne Judgement. And earth will be restored to Eden status.
I think a little research will bear this out.

The doctrine that Sarge believes in is found in the Watchtower cult.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Sarge, if you believe in God, and specifically Jesus, belong to the Bible and make it the criteria for which all other teachings are judged. If what you are taught doesn't correlate with the Bible, then the teaching is wrong. Change teachers. Don't change the Bible to make it conform to the false teaching.

Doctrine is the only thing we are allowed to judge. Can the righteous doctrine we are being taught, be found in the Bible? Do you know the Bible well enough to discern a non-truth or an adding to the word when you hear it, or are you banking on someone else getting it right.

For instance, we are warned to be sober, to avoid "pharmacy". Which means don't join Bongs for Jesus.

 

[hobelim]

Actually Hob is right, except for the sleeping part. The disciples were wide awake.
And to prove Hob's point, Moses was there.

Moses was not raptured. Enoch and Elijah were. Moses died, and his terrestrial part was buried by God Himself. Proof that the soul lives on, and where it lives on, and that we as souls are capable of hovering or floating in other dimensions, and that we have business to attend to after the body succumbs. Death is not the end. Moses proved that.

Enoch and Elijah are a completely different scenario. Becoming more spiritual than human, both were removed from earth alive.

Enoch walking with God until God took him, like Elijah being taken up in a whirlwind, as well as Jesus being taken up into heaven are all euphemisms for their physical deaths.

No one here gets out alive.....

The reward of the righteous, those who walk with God, is immediate entry into an eternal realm of conscious life immediately upon death of the body.

The resurrection of the dead is about those who have died as a consequence of violating the divine commands rising out of their tombs and ascending while they still have a body and entering into a new permanent existence that will not end when the body dies..

If you had ears to hear you too could rise from the grave and walk with God until you are taken up.

But, so far, things don't look very promising for you.

It seems that you lack the fundamental virtue of humility foundational to eternal life made obvious by your inability to consider something as hard to believe as you are wrong to teach others to set aside the laws of God and worship a nonexistent edible triune godman.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Humility was never my strong suit. But, I excel at reading comprehension. And when what I read in the Word, contradicts what you surmise, then I have a choice, believe you or believe the Lord. I chose the Lord, because He is never wrong. And you are consistently wrong. You rely on your own worldly comprehension. I rely on the Word of God. The two differ, substantially.
God doesn't need euphemisms for dead:
"and then he died......."
and then he died......."
"and when he died...."
"and then Moses died....."

He made a point of letting you know, that Enoch was removed and so he would not see death, yet. (Read Rev. to find out why). You just ignore the truth ( or never read it to begin with), and then use your own understanding to create the Bible of Hob, a compilation of half truths and half hobs, designed to mislead and corrupt the Bible we know.

It's odd how you latch onto a verse in the Bible and then build a whole new religion around it.
suggestion:
Believe it. Don't believe it. But for God's sake, read it.

"Enoch was translated that he should not see death" (Hebrews 11:5),
Euphemism that.

 

[hobelim]

Humility was never my strong suit. But, I excel at reading comprehension. And when what I read in the Word, contradicts what you surmise, then I have a choice, believe you or believe the Lord. I chose the Lord, because He is never wrong. And you are consistently wrong. You rely on your own worldly comprehension. I rely on the Word of God. The two differ, substantially.
God doesn't need euphemisms for dead:
"and then he died......."
and then he died......."
"and when he died...."
"and then Moses died....."

He made a point of letting you know, that Enoch was removed and so he would not see death, yet. (Read Rev. to find out why). You just ignore the truth ( or never read it to begin with), and then use your own understanding to create the Bible of Hob, a compilation of half truths and half hobs, designed to mislead and corrupt the Bible we know.

It's odd how you latch onto a verse in the Bible and then build a whole new religion around it.
suggestion:
Believe it. Don't believe it. But for God's sake, read it.

"Enoch was translated that he should not see death" (Hebrews 11:5),
Euphemism that.

I'm sure God is very impressed with the great faith displayed in your overinflated opinion of your own nonexistent reading comprehension skills.

I am.


Apparently you either never knew anyone suffering at the end stages of life and prayed that God would take them or you failed to include reality in your speculations as you revel in the delusions of your flawless reading comprehension abilities.


One sentence in the entire Bible written by Paul of all people is what you offer as proof that people vanish into thin air?

You claim to believe that people can leave the earth without dying a physical death in spite of all the evidence to the contrary?


Astonishing.


I guess Jesus who said that anyone who acts on his teaching will never know what it is to die must be very disappointed since not one person has ever escaped death since then.

... including you who worships and eats a triune mangod, in spite of your magnificent reading comprehension skills..


If death means death when God says it then the truth, the very truth, is that you died in the very same day you first got down on your knees to worship a triune mangod and descended into the netherworld where you remain to this day proud of your assumed salvation in professing that the truth is a lie and a lie is the truth.


astonishing.


And some people don't believe in divine condemnation.

Imagine that!

 

[The Irish Ram]

Sorry you feel that way Hob. I just want to make sure that conjured up euphemisms don't trump the Word of God.
Believe the Bible or don't believe the Bible, but don't make up your own version to fill the void of your understanding of the Bible.

"Enoch was translated that he should not see death" (Hebrews 11:5) is God saying the opposite of what you think He said.
God is astonishing. Yet, you keep trying to stifle His ability, to conform to your knowledge. And in doing so, the truth eludes you:

Matthew 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

And Jesus was referring to the soul, not the clay. You missed the message again.

 

[hobelim]

Sorry you feel that way Hob. I just want to make sure that conjured up euphemisms don't trump the Word of God.
Believe the Bible or don't believe the Bible, but don't make up your own version to fill the void of your understanding of the Bible.

"Enoch was translated that he should not see death" (Hebrews 11:5) is God saying the opposite of what you think He said.
God is astonishing. Yet, you keep trying to stifle His ability, to conform to your knowledge. And in doing so, the truth eludes you:

Matthew 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

And Jesus was referring to the soul, not the clay. You missed the message again.

For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol;
Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.
You will make known to me the path of life;
In Your presence is fullness of joy;
In Your right hand there are pleasures forever. psalm 16:10


Enoch being 'translated' so that he should not see death, is what Jesus was referring to when saying "one will be taken, the other left behind" which is all about the resurrection of the dead, those who, like yourself, have died as a consequence of setting aside the laws of God being translated from the dead to the living specifically by being made aware of the path to life, the law, and doing it while they still have a body to ascend in.


Think of it, if you can.

What was your very first act as a confirmed catholic if not to defy the very first commandment you were taught to memorize was a direct order from God punishable by immediate death and hell?

Thats why I told you that the truth, the very truth, is that you died in that very day that you first got down on your knees in terror before a false triune mangod to worship and eat it in the form of a lifeless cracker for spiritual life.


If you don't want your soul abandoned to Sheol, left behind exactly where you are, you had better repent, come out of your grave and start walking that path of life that has been made known to you before your body dies.

Or you could always pretend that you don't know what I am talking about and hope that God will reward you with eternal life for doing what God has specifically promised results in the death that you already so perfectly display.


There is nowhere for you to hide, no hole in the wall or crack in the rock where you will ever escape the hand of God in this world or the next for considering it a religious duty to desecrate the teachings of Jesus and perjure yourself in Gods name.

To continue in error, after the truth has been made known to you, is to make evil a deliberate choice.

Don't be stupid. Choose life and live.

 

[The Irish Ram]

For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol;
Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.
You will make known to me the path of life;
In Your presence is fullness of joy;
In Your right hand there are pleasures forever. psalm 16:10

That psalm was written by David who had a clear and sometimes visual understanding of God, of his future grandson, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.
And it clears up the confusion some had between the spirit of man vs the soul of man as to which went to Abraham's bosom before Christ was born.
David refers to Christ quite a bit, calling Him God's right hand, and that pleasure in Christ is forever.

Enoch has absolutely nothing to do with the coming event of the rapture in which one will be taken and one will not. He was raptured already, and is only one of two that were taken up so far, before they died.
If your scenario is correct, 1/2 of the population would have gone with Enoch and 1/2 of earth's population would have been left behind.

If it is for every man to die once and Enoch and Elijah have not done so YET, look for them during the Tribulation period, as the 2 prophets who are killed and left in the street for 3 and 1/2 days, only to rise again and preach on. They will be a sign to nonbelievers that God is who He says He is.

God set aside the Law and replaced it with Grace, not me! Ask the Jewish disciples...........
Roman 6:14 FOR SIN SHALL HAVE NO DOMINION OVER YOU: FOR YOU ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW, BUT UNDER GRACE

And I haven't died yet, was never Catholic, and never trembled in terror before my Abba. I love Him, His Son and His Spirit.
I will probably hit the floor when I see His majesty, but then I'll get right back up and run to His loving arms. And then to my Daddy's arms, because being in Christ, he's there waiting for me too. What a party. Death is gain.

Philippians 1:21-23 For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

Your lifeless cracker analogy also stems from a lack of understanding. No need for a cracker or wine. Your first bite of Cheerios in the morning, your first sip of coffee are sufficient for remembering the sacrifice Jesus made for us. In this case it is definitely the thought that counts. Do it in remembrance of Him, often.

My soul will accompany my spirit straight to Heaven when I die, because Christ already came to redeem me. Your version means God lied.

I'm not pretending I don't know what you are talking about, I'm genuine.
I do know enough about the Bible to know you didn't get it from there.

I don't have to hope God will reward me with eternal life, I have His word on it. And I don't have to walk, or perform, or be perfect to get my reward like you have to. It's a gift I didn't work for. It is unmerited favor.

Roman 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ, our Lord.

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

See? No euphemisms. Flat out in your face fact.

But you say the opposite. You think we need to work our way there with deeds and laws. Neither of us can "walk" our way into Heaven, Hob. You can soar there like an eagle, you can be carried there by angels, but you can't walk a straight enough line to warrant a place at your Father's table. Accept the gift and say thank you, and then try to live in a manner that pleases God. You'll stumble, but you can't out sin God's mercy. He is nothing if not forgiving of His children's behavior. His anger is but for a moment. His love is eternal. He forgives us our trespasses.

Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast"

The fact that you talk about walking the walk to salvation, and never mention Christ's work on the cross is sufficient to prove you wrong from a Biblical standpoint. One misstep under the Law you seem to prefer, and you lose, Hob. Under Grace/Christ, God is merciful unto our iniquities, and remembers our sin no more.
Choose Life. Choose Christ. (Beats walking around till you get lost.)