It isn't your grandfather's LEFT anymore

[Foxfyre]

were you born an idiot too? this is just a bullshit post....looking at the evil of the left while overlooking bush's war..trumps sexual crimes etc...hypocrite much ?

Have a nice day strollingbones. Some actually are capable of discussing the topic but I certainly don't expect everybody to do that.

 

[Foxfyre]

nailing jelly Fox.........

yes well, who is manipulating who with guttural emotional response ?



Yet we've evolved to be an overbearing, inefficient and ineffective ,ignoring our true constituency no longer respecting constitutional restraints or philosophies......




a rather repetitive scenario at that......



I'd take caution to the term patriot Fox

We've come to the point of political evolution to where one man's patriot is another's domestic terrorist

And we will continue to evolve , as i suspect most who've been around for a while would agree this isn't the same county we grew up in

from the wayback machine>>>

View attachment 797807
~S~

We're usually mostly on the same page Sparky, but as I've told others, chopping up posts for me destroys the continuity and context of the post and for me is confusing and tedious to read.

But I will address one point:

The Founders embarked on a grand experiment of a government necessary to knit the various states into one nation, allow those states to work seamlessly together, prevent those states from doing violence to each other, and do specific functions that the states could not realistically or practically do themselves. It was to be a country in which people would look to their own interests, and by doing so would benefit the whole. That is what a properly regulated capitalism looks like.

Otherwise the central government would leave it to the people in the states to create whatever sorts of government and societies they wished to have.

Their experiment produced the greatest, most benevolent, most prosperous, most peaceful nation the world had ever known.

And yes, beginning mostly early in the 20th Century, function and power creep has eroded much of the Founder's concept to create a monstrosity of unmanageable government that invades almost every aspect of our lives and absorbs an enormous amount of resources. We all share some blame for allowing it to happen and/or for condoning and encouraging it.

The left doesn't deserve all the blame but it is mostly leftist initiatives and emphasis that has created most of the problem that exists.

 

[imawhosure]

'Commie' probably will have myriad definitions among those who use the term. But it is important to see how the left's philosophy/point of view/agenda fits in with Marxist doctrines. All leftists want the government to provide cradle to grave security, benefits, quality of life, equality, etc. etc. etc. But what they do not see or want to see is a government big and powerful enough to give you everything you want will dictate what you will have and can take anything from you or do anything to you that it wants to do.

In effect they want a benevolent dictatorship that will create the Utopia Marx envisioned communism would be once it got through the totalitarian phase.

It sound noble. But it ignores human nature. Those who receive without earning it have no incentive to earn what they have. Those who work and are denied the ability to enjoy the fruit of their labor because they must support those who won't work will have much less incentive to work. And that cycle results in less opportunity for all but those in the government and their agents to prosper. And that benevolent dictator rarely turns out to be so benevolent, but by the time he/they have the power, the people are powerless to do anything about it. And once a government achieves total power, it has never in all of history voluntarily relinquished that power.

Read this whole thread, and I would like to answer your question----------->

I have a couple siblings who are Democrats. Good people, middle of the road, probably would be called moderate. Some of their friends are also. None of them are fire breathing Leftists, their thought process is closer to mine than the far Left. But one thing they all have in common is..........they do not pay close attention to politics, and they watch MSNBC, or CNN, or some other main stream media when they do pay attention. In local elections, they kinda split their vote between both entities, but when it comes to National elections, it is DNC all the way.

At family get togethers, I always ask them how they could vote for these crazies. What they tell me cements what I already knew----------> basically, they know the Left is terrible, but have been convinced through media that the GOP is worse, especially Trump; but also including Desantis. When talking to them, if they were to post on here, you would be SHOCKED that they would regurgitate all the phony facts from impeachment 1-2, and the phone call. None of them can tell me something wonderful Biden and friends have done that they are actually extremely happy with, but they are SCARED TO DEATH of the GOP. My brother in his 70s even admitted to me that things were far, far better under Trump, but he had to go because of his dealings with Russia. He had to bite the bullet as he put it, to save the country. My other brother concurred, and suggested that I was selfish not to have done the same for the good of our children, and grandchildren.

So now you ask---------->but how DID the Democrats become so far Left, or rather in actuality--------->how did WASHINGTON DC Democrats become so far Left?

The answer is easier than you might think if you allow me a little leeway here--------------->

1. To keep in power, the Democrats have actually created a very strong coalition of diverse groups that actually, are diametrically OPPOSED to one another, lol. To keep every one in line, they have to kowtow to their fringes, but they do not DARE pass legislation that does, and that is why they need the Presidency. Imagine IF the Democrats in congress got together, and decided to try and pass legislation to make our Southern border open. Why 2/3rds of them would be out on their keisters the next time they ran for re-election. The President, not so much; as all he has to do is NOT enforce the laws congress has put in place, and to remove a President for not following the laws put in place by them, it takes a massive majority in congress. I know, you know, and THEY know that is NOT going to happen!

2. This explains exactly why during the Trump Presidency, the Democrats did NOT try to pass legislation that fit what they claimed to stand for. Instead, they spent their time trying to make Trump look like a Russian tool to get him out of there, and tie his hands as much as possible. It was a whole "look, squirrel" routine, and I must say, it worked. They have convinced moderate Democrats that while it is obvious they suck, there is no way in hell they will vote for Trump.

3. Because of the Democrats needing to keep their coalition together, the far Left elements of the party now have massive power, and the threat of them jumping ship keeps the rest of the Washington Dems in line. This is why Democrats in Washington used to say things one way, have totally reversed course. It is 100% to appease the radicals in their party, and as long as they do not have to actually vote in congress on these radical takes, they are safe at election time. Most Americans do not care what you personally think as a human, but they will draw the line if you attempt to pass legislation to make these radical ideas law. The Left is well aware of this.

4. As far as elections go, let us all boil down what the Left is actually saying with their schtick-----> Yes voters, we know we are taking a knife and stabbing you in both your legs, but if you vote the GOP in, they will stab you in the heart! This is why their preferred method of attack is always race, gender, homophobia, etc. Our comeback in most cases is WEAK----------->socialist, communist, facist, lol. So the average moderate Democrat on the street hears that, and knows he/she is none of those things, so says we are out of touch. And yet, bring up Trump or Disantis to that same Democrat, and what do they say? Racist, Homophobe, Russian tool, etc. It is more than obvious to everyone GOP messaging must be improved, especially when criticizing the Left.

5. In closing, let me state that the WORST case scenario for the Left would be a Trump re-election, but a close 2nd would be a moderate Democrat getting elected. (I mean a real moderate, not a pretend one)

Why?

Because the far Left would then suffer a DOUBLE loss, power in the Party, and loss of power in the country as HE/SHE would run the country, unlike Biden having his handlers run the country behind the scenes. A real moderate would garner votes from the GOP, making the Far Leftists in congress, a mute point.

Let me tell you something, the FAR LEFT HATED Bill Clinton while he was President! Yes, I said that, and it is true! If you captured a leading far Leftist out in the wild and filled him/her with truth serum, you would discover this quickly. He cut more deals with the GOP than anyone to keep things going. Remember the statement--------->"The era of big government is over!" Ya think the Far Left liked that! Ya think the Socialist liked them keeping the budget down?

On the other hand, the LEFT loved Bush senior, lol. Were it not for his excursion into the Middle East, he would have been promoted to an honorary Democrat, lol. "Read my lips," lol. Imagine their delight when the opposition shot himself in the foot so badly, his own party through him out of office, and he RAISED taxes for them in the process. But then discovered, to replace Bush, they got a moderate Democrat, lol. The only thing they liked about Clinton, was Hillary; and her national healthcare excursion, which is one reason they HATE Trump so much! She was supposed to be the next Leftist in power, lol.

In closing, let me say the Democratic Party as a whole sum of its parts, is nowhere near as far Left as you think. If they were FORCED to vote in congress on laws instead of the President signing EOs, you would hear a totally different rhetoric from many of them. By the way, same goes for the GOP. It is a plight on all of our houses that they no longer follow the constitution, and should be basically forced to do what the constitution requires. I think you would be pleasantly surprised of the outcomes as both party's would cross over and vote differently; especially if they wanted to get re-elected.

 

[Foxfyre]

It is difficult to answer a topic in the manner you want when, in many ways it broadly generalizes and simplifies the left. Like or not it IS about people because people no onver seperate people and ideologies.

Flash sums up the topic in a crude but effective way that I don’t see you disagree with: “A big chunk of the Dem's base is composed of misfits, lowlife, anarchists and the mentally ill...”


I will answer your topic but you will get some about today’s right as we’ll because cannot exist without the right and vice versa and BOTH HAVE LOST SIGHT OF THE MIDDLE.

The various issues in the OP however are pretty specific. Of course there are various aspects of ANY topic and everybody can come up with whataboutisms or deviate into larger context.

Again for example:

If the issue is defensible it should be quite simple for somebody to say why a transgendered male should be allowed to compete for women's sporting records, scholarships, other opportunities and/or be allowed into women's locker rooms and public restrooms. There should be a rationale for how that is consistent with the long fight for women's rights for privacy and safety and the right for opportunities in sporting events .

But that is an uncomfortable topic isn't it because there is no real argument that can reconcile those two things. One must either agree that transgendered males should be treated exactly like women or agree with the argument that it sets back women's rights to mid 20th Century.

But the lefists here ignore the question because it is uncomfortable and go to whataboutisms or say it is too generalized or go full ad hominem and personal insults.

Likewise if it is a defensible position, it should be explainable that what was considered constitutionally protected speech by the left a few decades ago is now disqualification for one's job or holding office or is deserving of boycotts and protests. Why is that? How is it justified?

No leftist here even wants to approach that topic, must less justify their position on it.

(As an aside, I note that some on the right are putting a good deal of time and effort into venting all their thoughts in long posts that may or may not address the thread topic. Most make some good points and some have included content I would have left out. There is no way to address all of it without derailing the thread so I choose not to. That should not be construed as I don't have a problem with any of it.)

 

[rightwinger]

Read this whole thread, and I would like to answer your question----------->

I have a couple siblings who are Democrats. Good people, middle of the road, probably would be called moderate. Some of their friends are also. None of them are fire breathing Leftists, their thought process is closer to mine than the far Left. But one thing they all have in common is..........they do not pay close attention to politics, and they watch MSNBC, or CNN, or some other main stream media when they do pay attention. In local elections, they kinda split their vote between both entities, but when it comes to National elections, it is DNC all the way.

At family get togethers, I always ask them how they could vote for these crazies. What they tell me cements what I already knew----------> basically, they know the Left is terrible, but have been convinced through media that the GOP is worse, especially Trump; but also including Desantis. When talking to them, if they were to post on here, you would be SHOCKED that they would regurgitate all the phony facts from impeachment 1-2, and the phone call. None of them can tell me something wonderful Biden and friends have done that they are actually extremely happy with, but they are SCARED TO DEATH of the GOP. My brother in his 70s even admitted to me that things were far, far better under Trump, but he had to go because of his dealings with Russia. He had to bite the bullet as he put it, to save the country. My other brother concurred, and suggested that I was selfish not to have done the same for the good of our children, and grandchildren.

So now you ask---------->but how DID the Democrats become so far Left, or rather in actuality--------->how did WASHINGTON DC Democrats become so far Left?

The answer is easier than you might think if you allow me a little leeway here--------------->

1. To keep in power, the Democrats have actually created a very strong coalition of diverse groups that actually, are diametrically OPPOSED to one another, lol. To keep every one in line, they have to kowtow to their fringes, but they do not DARE pass legislation that does, and that is why they need the Presidency. Imagine IF the Democrats in congress got together, and decided to try and pass legislation to make our Southern border open. Why 2/3rds of them would be out on their keisters the next time they ran for re-election. The President, not so much; as all he has to do is NOT enforce the laws congress has put in place, and to remove a President for not following the laws put in place by them, it takes a massive majority in congress. I know, you know, and THEY know that is NOT going to happen!

2. This explains exactly why during the Trump Presidency, the Democrats did NOT try to pass legislation that fit what they claimed to stand for. Instead, they spent their time trying to make Trump look like a Russian tool to get him out of there, and tie his hands as much as possible. It was a whole "look, squirrel" routine, and I must say, it worked. They have convinced moderate Democrats that while it is obvious they suck, there is no way in hell they will vote for Trump.

3. Because of the Democrats needing to keep their coalition together, the far Left elements of the party now have massive power, and the threat of them jumping ship keeps the rest of the Washington Dems in line. This is why Democrats in Washington used to say things one way, have totally reversed course. It is 100% to appease the radicals in their party, and as long as they do not have to actually vote in congress on these radical takes, they are safe at election time. Most Americans do not care what you personally think as a human, but they will draw the line if you attempt to pass legislation to make these radical ideas law. The Left is well aware of this.

4. As far as elections go, let us all boil down what the Left is actually saying with their schtick-----> Yes voters, we know we are taking a knife and stabbing you in both your legs, but if you vote the GOP in, they will stab you in the heart! This is why their preferred method of attack is always race, gender, homophobia, etc. Our comeback in most cases is WEAK----------->socialist, communist, facist, lol. So the average moderate Democrat on the street hears that, and knows he/she is none of those things, so says we are out of touch. And yet, bring up Trump or Disantis to that same Democrat, and what do they say? Racist, Homophobe, Russian tool, etc. It is more than obvious to everyone GOP messaging must be improved, especially when criticizing the Left.

5. In closing, let me state that the WORST case scenario for the Left would be a Trump re-election, but a close 2nd would be a moderate Democrat getting elected. (I mean a real moderate, not a pretend one)

Why?

Because the far Left would then suffer a DOUBLE loss, power in the Party, and loss of power in the country as HE/SHE would run the country, unlike Biden having his handlers run the country behind the scenes. A real moderate would garner votes from the GOP, making the Far Leftists in congress, a mute point.

Let me tell you something, the FAR LEFT HATED Bill Clinton while he was President! Yes, I said that, and it is true! If you captured a leading far Leftist out in the wild and filled him/her with truth serum, you would discover this quickly. He cut more deals with the GOP than anyone to keep things going. Remember the statement--------->"The era of big government is over!" Ya think the Far Left liked that! Ya think the Socialist liked them keeping the budget down?

On the other hand, the LEFT loved Bush senior, lol. Were it not for his excursion into the Middle East, he would have been promoted to an honorary Democrat, lol. "Read my lips," lol. Imagine their delight when the opposition shot himself in the foot so badly, his own party through him out of office, and he RAISED taxes for them in the process. But then discovered, to replace Bush, they got a moderate Democrat, lol. The only thing they liked about Clinton, was Hillary; and her national healthcare excursion, which is one reason they HATE Trump so much! She was supposed to be the next Leftist in power, lol.

In closing, let me say the Democratic Party as a whole sum of its parts, is nowhere near as far Left as you think. If they were FORCED to vote in congress on laws instead of the President signing EOs, you would hear a totally different rhetoric from many of them. By the way, same goes for the GOP. It is a plight on all of our houses that they no longer follow the constitution, and should be basically forced to do what the constitution requires. I think you would be pleasantly surprised of the outcomes as both party's would cross over and vote differently; especially if they wanted to get re-elected.

Way too long

 

[Foxfyre]

Read this whole thread, and I would like to answer your question----------->

I have a couple siblings who are Democrats. Good people, middle of the road, probably would be called moderate. Some of their friends are also. None of them are fire breathing Leftists, their thought process is closer to mine than the far Left. But one thing they all have in common is..........they do not pay close attention to politics, and they watch MSNBC, or CNN, or some other main stream media when they do pay attention. In local elections, they kinda split their vote between both entities, but when it comes to National elections, it is DNC all the way.

At family get togethers, I always ask them how they could vote for these crazies. What they tell me cements what I already knew----------> basically, they know the Left is terrible, but have been convinced through media that the GOP is worse, especially Trump; but also including Desantis. When talking to them, if they were to post on here, you would be SHOCKED that they would regurgitate all the phony facts from impeachment 1-2, and the phone call. None of them can tell me something wonderful Biden and friends have done that they are actually extremely happy with, but they are SCARED TO DEATH of the GOP. My brother in his 70s even admitted to me that things were far, far better under Trump, but he had to go because of his dealings with Russia. He had to bite the bullet as he put it, to save the country. My other brother concurred, and suggested that I was selfish not to have done the same for the good of our children, and grandchildren.

So now you ask---------->but how DID the Democrats become so far Left, or rather in actuality--------->how did WASHINGTON DC Democrats become so far Left?

The answer is easier than you might think if you allow me a little leeway here--------------->

1. To keep in power, the Democrats have actually created a very strong coalition of diverse groups that actually, are diametrically OPPOSED to one another, lol. To keep every one in line, they have to kowtow to their fringes, but they do not DARE pass legislation that does, and that is why they need the Presidency. Imagine IF the Democrats in congress got together, and decided to try and pass legislation to make our Southern border open. Why 2/3rds of them would be out on their keisters the next time they ran for re-election. The President, not so much; as all he has to do is NOT enforce the laws congress has put in place, and to remove a President for not following the laws put in place by them, it takes a massive majority in congress. I know, you know, and THEY know that is NOT going to happen!

2. This explains exactly why during the Trump Presidency, the Democrats did NOT try to pass legislation that fit what they claimed to stand for. Instead, they spent their time trying to make Trump look like a Russian tool to get him out of there, and tie his hands as much as possible. It was a whole "look, squirrel" routine, and I must say, it worked. They have convinced moderate Democrats that while it is obvious they suck, there is no way in hell they will vote for Trump.

3. Because of the Democrats needing to keep their coalition together, the far Left elements of the party now have massive power, and the threat of them jumping ship keeps the rest of the Washington Dems in line. This is why Democrats in Washington used to say things one way, have totally reversed course. It is 100% to appease the radicals in their party, and as long as they do not have to actually vote in congress on these radical takes, they are safe at election time. Most Americans do not care what you personally think as a human, but they will draw the line if you attempt to pass legislation to make these radical ideas law. The Left is well aware of this.

4. As far as elections go, let us all boil down what the Left is actually saying with their schtick-----> Yes voters, we know we are taking a knife and stabbing you in both your legs, but if you vote the GOP in, they will stab you in the heart! This is why their preferred method of attack is always race, gender, homophobia, etc. Our comeback in most cases is WEAK----------->socialist, communist, facist, lol. So the average moderate Democrat on the street hears that, and knows he/she is none of those things, so says we are out of touch. And yet, bring up Trump or Disantis to that same Democrat, and what do they say? Racist, Homophobe, Russian tool, etc. It is more than obvious to everyone GOP messaging must be improved, especially when criticizing the Left.

5. In closing, let me state that the WORST case scenario for the Left would be a Trump re-election, but a close 2nd would be a moderate Democrat getting elected. (I mean a real moderate, not a pretend one)

Why?

Because the far Left would then suffer a DOUBLE loss, power in the Party, and loss of power in the country as HE/SHE would run the country, unlike Biden having his handlers run the country behind the scenes. A real moderate would garner votes from the GOP, making the Far Leftists in congress, a mute point.

Let me tell you something, the FAR LEFT HATED Bill Clinton while he was President! Yes, I said that, and it is true! If you captured a leading far Leftist out in the wild and filled him/her with truth serum, you would discover this quickly. He cut more deals with the GOP than anyone to keep things going. Remember the statement--------->"The era of big government is over!" Ya think the Far Left liked that! Ya think the Socialist liked them keeping the budget down?

On the other hand, the LEFT loved Bush senior, lol. Were it not for his excursion into the Middle East, he would have been promoted to an honorary Democrat, lol. "Read my lips," lol. Imagine their delight when the opposition shot himself in the foot so badly, his own party through him out of office, and he RAISED taxes for them in the process. But then discovered, to replace Bush, they got a moderate Democrat, lol. The only thing they liked about Clinton, was Hillary; and her national healthcare excursion, which is one reason they HATE Trump so much! She was supposed to be the next Leftist in power, lol.

In closing, let me say the Democratic Party as a whole sum of its parts, is nowhere near as far Left as you think. If they were FORCED to vote in congress on laws instead of the President signing EOs, you would hear a totally different rhetoric from many of them. By the way, same goes for the GOP. It is a plight on all of our houses that they no longer follow the constitution, and should be basically forced to do what the constitution requires. I think you would be pleasantly surprised of the outcomes as both party's would cross over and vote differently; especially if they wanted to get re-elected.

Thank you for a thoughtful post but I tried to keep partisanship out of it because I fully realize many Democrats are not hard left and many Republicans are more left of center than right. George W. Bush was a great example of that. On almost all his policies--social services, education, environment, immigration policy, etc.--he promoted policies most leftists would have loved if he just had a D instead of an R after his name. The only strong conservative position he took was on taxes and the economy. But I digress.

I am not interested in party politics so much on this thread except as they relate directly to the points in the OP. How does the left justify reversing its emphasis/position/policy on so many things in so short a time. And why won't they even discuss it? They condemn the OP but just use the same childish insults or go to whataboutisms or try to change the subject entirely instead of explaining how each point is wrong or why a reversal of policy was warranted.

P.S. I have a lot of good lovable Democrats in my family too. And frankly most of them think like the old style Democrats and don't go for most of this new 'woke' PC stuff. But they aren't rightwingers either. We get along fine. The few who cannot do that are more like those on this thread who dismiss the whole thing with childish insults. And if a topic is uncomfortable for them they deal with it via ad hominem and personal attacks or they go to the whataboutisms or try to enlarge or change the subject so they can ignore the uncomfortable questions.

 

[Oddball]

P.S. I have a lot of good lovable Democrats in my family too. And frankly most of them think like the old style Democrats and don't go for most of this new 'woke' PC stuff. But they aren't rightwingers either. We get along fine. The few who cannot do that are more like those on this thread who dismiss the whole thing with childish insults. And if a topic is uncomfortable for them they deal with it via ad hominem and personal attacks or they go to the whataboutisms or try to enlarge or change the subject so they can ignore the uncomfortable questions.

Or they the flood the zone with a litany of recriminations, then take a powder when you pare the list down to one and ask for specifics as to how they drew their conclusion.

 

[Foxfyre]

Or they the flood the zone with a litany of recriminations, then take a powder when you pare the list down to one and ask for specifics as to how they drew their conclusion.

Yep. That too.

I long ago adopted a personal policy that if I could not come up with a valid argument for the opinion I hold on any topic, that opinion should be considered suspect. Gut feelings may or may not be accurate.

For example, when Trump appointed Christopher Wray to replace Comey at the FBI, and I first saw Wray on television, my gut reaction was I didn't trust him. But I couldn't come up with any objective reason--he just looked like a self-righteous, smug, self-absorbed vain pretty boy prima donna to me. But on paper he came with great credentials. So I set aside my gut reaction and mentally chose to give him a chance.

Since then I have come to believe my gut reaction was accurate, but that is based on specifics, i.e. hearing Wray talk, obfuscate, refuse to answer, sneer, etc. and the obvious weaponization of the FBI.

But leftists defend the FBI passionately these days and accuse those of us who criticize it as being anti-law enforcement or something else just as ridiculous. But don't try to pin them down on why a militant raid on Mar-a-lago was justified but no raid on Hunter or Joe whose lawyers were given plenty of advance time to decide what they would show the FBI who would come calling and/or have available in a polite and leisurely search with the lawyers present.

It would seem to me that an intellectually honest leftist would be able to articulate a reasoned rationale for the positions they hold. But most cannot or will not do that and will do almost anything to divert a discussion to avoid admitting that.

 

[sparky]

And yes, beginning mostly early in the 20th Century, function and power creep has eroded much of the Founder's concept to create a monstrosity of unmanageable government that invades almost every aspect of our lives and absorbs an enormous amount of resources. We all share some blame for allowing it to happen and/or for condoning and encouraging it.

Remember the statement--------->"The era of big government is over!"

heh, you'se guys are reminding me of>>

Anecdotally , i was just initially as mesmerized w/ Ronnie as most Trumpsters where in this millennium

But what comes around goes around

Which is something to keep in mind for those of you who can achieve a broader objective of things political

~S~

 

[Rumpole]

Sorry but I read what is posted here at USMB, on Facebook, on Twitter, said by the talking heads on television, what is quoted in the newspapers. And I was specific about issues pushed by the Left. I did not say those were the ONLY issues pushed by the Left on any topic. But you'll have a hard time showing how I was wrong in how the left pushes each and every one. And how each is a reversal of the position of the left in previous recent generations.

I'm very critical of broad sweep accusations, it's simplistic thinking. If you have a specific beef with a particular person or even more than one person, but be specific, that is a merit worthy argument. Broad sweeps are rants, and they have little value, in my view,

 

[sparky]

I'm very critical of broad sweep accusations, it's simplistic thinking. If you have a specific beef with a particular person or even more than one person, but be specific, that is a merit worthy argument. Broad sweeps are rants, and they have little value, in my view,

But you see, the media's entire game is a myopic focus Rump......~S~

 

[d0gbreath]

heh, you'se guys are reminding me of>>

Anecdotally , i was just initially as mesmerized w/ Ronnie as most Trumpsters where in this millennium

But what comes around goes around

Which is something to keep in mind for those of you who can achieve a broader objective of things political

~S~

MAGA was Ronald Reagan's campaign slogan.

 

[Foxfyre]

I'm very critical of broad sweep accusations, it's simplistic thinking. If you have a specific beef with a particular person or even more than one person, but be specific, that is a merit worthy argument. Broad sweeps are rants, and they have little value, in my view,

So am I which is why I narrowed my examples in the OP to very specific issues/situations. Trying to make them into broad sweep accusations is not serious debate but just another away to deflect from the topic.

 

[Foxfyre]

heh, you'se guys are reminding me of>>

Anecdotally , i was just initially as mesmerized w/ Ronnie as most Trumpsters where in this millennium

But what comes around goes around

Which is something to keep in mind for those of you who can achieve a broader objective of things political

~S~

Sometimes. It took a World War and 85 million military and civilian lives to defang a brutal, expanionist, murderous Nazi regime in Germany and an almost equally savage Japan. Both countries suffered catastrophic losses and were forced into unconditional surrender and, with some allied, mostly U.S. help, into more democratic governments. Both countries, once our mortal enemies, have been our allies, friends, and trading partners and pose no threat to their neighbors in any way. Neither have even come close to returning to their totalitarian governments.

The bloodiest war for the U.S. was the Civil War that was the beginning of the end for slavery and forced seceding states back into the union. There has never since been any serious suggestion from anybody that slavery be again legalized or that states secede from the union.

The results were good genies who nobody wanted to put back into the bottle.

I hope this current culture war of leftist Marxism/wokeism/PC nonsense going on isn't a bad genie that can't be put back into the bottle.

 

[sparky]

Those were good genies that couldn't be put back into the bottle.

I hope this current culture war of leftist Marxism/wokeism/PC nonsense going on isn't also a genie that can't be put back into the bottle.

Yanno, i could blather on for pages Fox, but i dont really think y'all need to be caught up in any self serving boredom

But yes, it's a very cultural gestalt , with a grand dose of Orwell at that

FWIW, this is exactly why i refuse to be a partisan , but i suspect you already can pick such sorts out......

~S~

 

[rightwinger]

heh, you'se guys are reminding me of>>

Anecdotally , i was just initially as mesmerized w/ Ronnie as most Trumpsters where in this millennium

But what comes around goes around

Which is something to keep in mind for those of you who can achieve a broader objective of things political

~S~

Reagan was the problem

He sold out our Middle Class

 

[sparky]

Reagan was the problem

He sold out our Middle Class

Reagan was an actor RW'er

~S~

 

[Coyote]

The left used to be pro-children.
Now they applaud or turn a blind eye to grooming of children via inappropriate curriculum, entertainment, recreation and don't seem to care that American students are far behind their counterparts in most core subjects around the world.

This is the rest of my reply.

The Left is pro-children in a way the Right only mouths.

Where the Right is worried that a child might see a Drag Queen, the Left is worried about the child being hungry while he is trying to learn.

While the Right is using “it’s for the Children” to erase entire groups of people, ban discussions of “uncomfortable” history, banning books with LGBTQ characters (and I’m not about tbe extreme examp,es like “Gender Queer”) or books by Black or minority authors that might show life from point of view…they are doing NOTHING to focus on reading skills themselves…something children are more apt to pick up if the have books they can identify with.

While the Right claims to be about ”parent’s rights” it is only for the rights of SOME parents. Not the parents of Black or Hispanic kids, who might want their child to access a book that reflects THEIR experiences. Not the parents of a transgender child (and, no, I do not mean surgery) who‘s decisions about what care their child gets is now up to tbe state and not them, their child, and their medical team. Not the parents who might be fine taking their child to a drag show and are told it is not their right, but it is ok if they want to go to a football game and whach scantily clad cheer leaders gyrating in sexually provocative maneuvers and it’s ok if they want to sexualize (groom?) their kindergartner in child pageant.

Here is what being “for the children” is:

Ensuring they are fed, housed and cared for, even if it’s publically funded.

It is making sure they get the healthcare they need.

Supporting programs that help a family - like family leave and subsidized daycare.

It’s not limiting it to just the children here legally but covering every child in our borders because they didn’t have a choice.

It’s keeping families together, NOT allowing our government to rip their children away as punishment because they aren’t here legally, not warehousing already traumitized kids who have now lost their families, not deporting the parents without tbe kids, not losing the kids (and I’m not happy with Biden over that either).

It’s supporting stong child labor laws to protect them from exploitation and keep them in school.

It’s going after the REAL groomers and predators. The ones that gain access to youth through the ever growing internet and social media world. The ones who target and exploit vulnerable kids, and who abuse them or traffic them.

So…is the left no longer pro child? No, they are very much pro-child.

The left used to be pro-diversity of opinions and freedom of choice.
Now they tell you what opinions you MUST have and how you are required to live.

The Left may be vociferous, arrogant and self righteous in their social opinions but it is not the Left passing laws restricting what teachers can say about race, or same sex couples, or families. The Left isn’t isn’t passing laws restricting what private companies can teach in DEI training. The left isn’t passing laws forbidding state employees from even mentioning the word abortion or they could face termination and legal action. The Left isn’t passing laws preventing parents from accessing the best available treatment for their children. The Left isn’t passing Laws that force a woman with a non-viable pregnancy to be at eminent risk of death before treating it.

In fact it seems that the Left is far more tolerant of diversity and freedom of choice than the Right for the simple fact that they aren’t legislating these restrictions on you. If they mouth off in self-righteous indignation you tell them exactly where to stick and you won’t be breaking a single law.

The left used to be pro-free speech.
Now they say speech is violence, and silence you if you hurt someone’s feelings.

I’ve covered this already. The right of free speech means the government can’t restrict it. The only silencing being done is through rightwing legislation. Not only what I outlined above but legislation targeting protests that goes further than just controlling violence. THIS is silencing.

The left used to be American.
Now they are New World Order one world government advocates.

Foxfyre, I respect and like you as a person, but this is really completely BS. I’m a leftist. And I have only ever heard of this massive left wing conspiracy from rightwingers. We ARE American and rightwingers don’t get to decide who is and who isn’t.

The change has occurred as the left becomes more and more the large majority in government, media, education, entertainment, scientific organizations, big business and has more and more power and control of all.

This is also BS.

The Right controls the majority of the state houses, governorships, the House of Representatives, almost half of the Senate, the Supreme Court … and you are trying to tell me that the Left is controlling more and more??? With redistricting, the Right is looking at further expanding and cementing their control! How can you even say this with a straight face?

Now…let’s check on the other claims.

The Media. This is a long established Rightwing plaint, but is it true? If it ever was, it certainly isn’t now. The internet has been the Great Equalizer giving everyone a platform and our choices on media have exploded. There is a niche for everyone and unfortunately that means a billion echochambers that rarely intersect.

“Big Business”? Controlled by the Left? Hardly. The easiest way to get an impression is to look at campaign donations and you’ll find both parties getting substantial donations from business giants.

Scientific organizations are not “controlled” by any ideology.

Now entertainment, like Hollywood largely trends left but entertainment like country music, trends right.

 

[Coyote]

No true Scottsman fallacy on full display.

No.

Not at all.

China is still authoritarian but it has added a degree free market economy now and it’s now a more mixed economic system. That is just facts, not a fallacy.

 

[Oddball]

No.

Not at all.

China is still authoritarian but it has added a degree free market economy now and it’s now a more mixed economic system. That is just facts, not a fallacy.

Horseshit....The the Uighurs, and other slave laborers in concentration camps, how "free market" the economy is.