Israel's Legal Right To Exist

[MJB12741]

All legal. But what about all the Muslim conquests of land by force? Let's ask Tinmore if that is legal.

Pssshhh. Little things like sovereignty, borders, territorial integrity, invasion, occupation and international law?! Those things don't apply to Muslims.

But what about the "Palestinian land" Israel is stealing when the indigenous Palestinians were Jews & not a single Muslim in existence?

 

[montelatici]

The indigenous Palestinians practiced many different religions at different times. To continue to reside in Palestine they all converted to Christianity in 380 AD. Most of the Jews that became Christians in 380 AD, along with those that had practiced other faiths, converted to Islam from Christianity by 1400 AD.

 

[MJB12741]

The indigenous Palestinians practiced many different religions at different times. To continue to reside in Palestine they all converted to Christianity in 380 AD. Most of the Jews that became Christians in 380 AD, along with those that had practiced other faiths, converted to Islam from Christianity by 1400 AD.

How do you like that. The Muslims are really Jews.

 

[Shusha]

The Jewish National home was to be in Palestine with the Palestinians. There was no transfer of territory.

The Jewish National Home was Palestine. There was no need to transfer territory beyond the transfer which had already occurred with the Treaties of Sevres and Lausanne which transferred territory from the Ottomans to the Allied Powers). The disposition of the territories -- including the creation of the boundaries -- was in the hands of the Allied Powers from that point on for all the territories Turkey ceded. The law of the time permitted (obligated) the Allied Powers to dispose of the territories. They chose the Mandate system to permit the development of self-determining, self-governing peoples. They chose to develop one portion of the territories (Palestine) into the National Homeland for the Jewish People. They had every legal right to do so. They also signed a legally-binding treaty which obligated them to that course of action.

The Allied Powers, including the LoN and the Mandate, did not annex or otherwise claim sovereignty over any territory.

Correct. They could have. They had every legal right to. But they chose a different course of action instead, and once chosen were obligated in law to it.

They had no authority to dispose of any territory because it was not theirs to give away. None of them did. This also applies to the UN.

This is not true. Up until that point, the customary law was that the victors in war were permitted to do whatever they wanted with territory captured in war, or ceded by treaty in war. (In fact, YOU are the one who keeps pointing out to me that until the post WWII era, it was perfectly legal to take territory by conquest.) The Allied Powers deliberately chose to create the Mandate system. Part of that Mandate system was to identify the Jewish People as one of the peoples to whom Article 22 and the entire Mandate system and disposition of the territories applied.

Inherent, universal, inalienable rights are for the people of the place. International law marries the people and the land.

Well, yes. You conveniently ignore the Jewish people as being one of the people of the place. (A phrase, by the way, which has no authority in law.) Fortunately, the Allied Powers made sure to entrench the Jewish peoples rights in law -- including identifying which people were meant to be included for the Mandate for Palestine. They specifically included the entire Jewish people and made reference to Jewish immigration.

And don't forget what you are arguing here. You are trying to provide actual legal arguments for why the Jewish people are to be specifically prohibited from self-government.

 

[Hollie]

The indigenous Palestinians practiced many different religions at different times. To continue to reside in Palestine they all converted to Christianity in 380 AD. Most of the Jews that became Christians in 380 AD, along with those that had practiced other faiths, converted to Islam from Christianity by 1400 AD.

Odd how you further the same nonsense of "indigenous Pal'istanians" when the geographic area of Pal'istan was the subject of invasions and settlement by various cultures at various times. Since when were the European Christian crusaders an "indigenous people"?

 

[MJB12741]

The indigenous Palestinians practiced many different religions at different times. To continue to reside in Palestine they all converted to Christianity in 380 AD. Most of the Jews that became Christians in 380 AD, along with those that had practiced other faiths, converted to Islam from Christianity by 1400 AD.

Odd how you further the same nonsense of "indigenous Pal'istanians" when the geographic area of Pal'istan was the subject of invasions and settlement by various cultures at various times. Since when were the European Christian crusaders an "indigenous people"?

Excellent point but we must be careful not to offend Monte with documented facts or we may lose him here.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Jewish National Home was Palestine.

That is somewhat true. The plan of the Mandate was to assist immigrating Jews in getting Palestinian citizenship and forming an independent state for all of its citizens. Britain left Palestine without accomplishing that goal.

That is not what really happened.

 

[montelatici]

The indigenous Palestinians practiced many different religions at different times. To continue to reside in Palestine they all converted to Christianity in 380 AD. Most of the Jews that became Christians in 380 AD, along with those that had practiced other faiths, converted to Islam from Christianity by 1400 AD.

Odd how you further the same nonsense of "indigenous Pal'istanians" when the geographic area of Pal'istan was the subject of invasions and settlement by various cultures at various times. Since when were the European Christian crusaders an "indigenous people"?

Excellent point but we must be careful not to offend Monte with documented facts or we may lose him here.

Not one documented fact has been raised, dimwit. Just restating the usual propaganda.

Before the European Zionist settler colonist invasion, rulers came and went and did not change the nature of the inhabitants. There was no settler colonialism. The defeated ruling European Christian Crusaders eventually left Palestine and returned to Europe after Saladin's victory over the Latin Kingdom. Only the native Christians, those that had converted to Christianity from other religions (including Judaism) remained.

" The defeated Christians left the city in three columns, with the first two led by the Knights Templars and Hospitallers and the third by Balian and Patriarch Heraclius....."

The Holy City Falls: Siege of Jerusalem

 

[Shusha]

The Jewish National Home was Palestine.

That is somewhat true. The plan of the Mandate was to assist immigrating Jews in getting Palestinian citizenship and forming an independent state for all of its citizens.

Thank you! So, legally, there was no problem with that, right?

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Jewish National Home was Palestine.

That is somewhat true. The plan of the Mandate was to assist immigrating Jews in getting Palestinian citizenship and forming an independent state for all of its citizens.

Thank you! So, legally, there was no problem with that, right?

But that is not what happened. The Zionists did not want to share the country with the Palestinians.

What they did was to expel the Palestinians and create a separate state just for themselves. That violated everything that was the Jewish National home.

 

[Hollie]

The indigenous Palestinians practiced many different religions at different times. To continue to reside in Palestine they all converted to Christianity in 380 AD. Most of the Jews that became Christians in 380 AD, along with those that had practiced other faiths, converted to Islam from Christianity by 1400 AD.

How did the Christian crusaders who invaded from Europe magically transform into indigenous Pal'istanian arabs?

Gee whiz, but this magical kingdom of Disneyland I mean Pal'istan you have invented has quite the magical powers.

 

[Hollie]

The Jewish National Home was Palestine.

That is somewhat true. The plan of the Mandate was to assist immigrating Jews in getting Palestinian citizenship and forming an independent state for all of its citizens.

Thank you! So, legally, there was no problem with that, right?

But that is not what happened. The Zionists did not want to share the country with the Palestinians.

What they did was to expel the Palestinians and create a separate state just for themselves. That violated everything that was the Jewish National home.

Of course, because you have fallen down and bumped your head, you have forgotten that the Arabs-Moslems refused every opportunirty to participate in the process of Mandate and achieving independence.

Those poor, helpless, shiftless, incompetent arabs.

Feel the burn.

 

[MJB12741]

The Jewish National Home was Palestine.

That is somewhat true. The plan of the Mandate was to assist immigrating Jews in getting Palestinian citizenship and forming an independent state for all of its citizens.

Thank you! So, legally, there was no problem with that, right?

But that is not what happened. The Zionists did not want to share the country with the Palestinians.

What they did was to expel the Palestinians and create a separate state just for themselves. That violated everything that was the Jewish National home.

The Zionists "expelled the Palestinians"??? Lets check this out. In 1948 there were approximately 1.2 million Palestinians living in Israel. And now there are just over 6 million of them left. Yep, it's a GENOCIDE. Right Tinmore?

Population Statistics - Israeli-Palestinian Conflict - ProCon.org

 

[Shusha]

But that is not what happened....

We weren't discussing what happened, remember? We were discussing whether Israel has legal validity. You now seem to agree that it does.

 

[montelatici]

The Jewish National Home was Palestine.

That is somewhat true. The plan of the Mandate was to assist immigrating Jews in getting Palestinian citizenship and forming an independent state for all of its citizens.

Thank you! So, legally, there was no problem with that, right?

But that is not what happened. The Zionists did not want to share the country with the Palestinians.

What they did was to expel the Palestinians and create a separate state just for themselves. That violated everything that was the Jewish National home.

The Zionists "expelled the Palestinians"??? Lets check this out. In 1948 there were approximately 1.2 million Palestinians living in Israel. And now there are just over 6 million of them left. Yep, it's a GENOCIDE. Right Tinmore?

Population Statistics - Israeli-Palestinian Conflict - ProCon.org

You still haven't figured out what genocide is. Unbelievable. But expelling people based on their religion, race, ethnicity, etc. is "ethnic cleansing", not genocide. You are one confused puppy.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Jewish National Home was Palestine.

That is somewhat true. The plan of the Mandate was to assist immigrating Jews in getting Palestinian citizenship and forming an independent state for all of its citizens.

Thank you! So, legally, there was no problem with that, right?

But that is not what happened. The Zionists did not want to share the country with the Palestinians.

What they did was to expel the Palestinians and create a separate state just for themselves. That violated everything that was the Jewish National home.

Of course, because you have fallen down and bumped your head, you have forgotten that the Arabs-Moslems refused every opportunirty to participate in the process of Mandate and achieving independence.

Those poor, helpless, shiftless, incompetent arabs.

Feel the burn.

You are so confused.

 

[Hollie]

The Jewish National Home was Palestine.

That is somewhat true. The plan of the Mandate was to assist immigrating Jews in getting Palestinian citizenship and forming an independent state for all of its citizens.

Thank you! So, legally, there was no problem with that, right?

But that is not what happened. The Zionists did not want to share the country with the Palestinians.

What they did was to expel the Palestinians and create a separate state just for themselves. That violated everything that was the Jewish National home.

Of course, because you have fallen down and bumped your head, you have forgotten that the Arabs-Moslems refused every opportunirty to participate in the process of Mandate and achieving independence.

Those poor, helpless, shiftless, incompetent arabs.

Feel the burn.

You are so confused.

I know history. You don't. You can't claim ignorance as a defense for being ignorant.

 

[Hollie]

The Jewish National Home was Palestine.

That is somewhat true. The plan of the Mandate was to assist immigrating Jews in getting Palestinian citizenship and forming an independent state for all of its citizens.

Thank you! So, legally, there was no problem with that, right?

But that is not what happened. The Zionists did not want to share the country with the Palestinians.

What they did was to expel the Palestinians and create a separate state just for themselves. That violated everything that was the Jewish National home.

The Zionists "expelled the Palestinians"??? Lets check this out. In 1948 there were approximately 1.2 million Palestinians living in Israel. And now there are just over 6 million of them left. Yep, it's a GENOCIDE. Right Tinmore?

Population Statistics - Israeli-Palestinian Conflict - ProCon.org

You still haven't figured out what genocide is. Unbelievable. But expelling people based on their religion, race, ethnicity, etc. is "ethnic cleansing", not genocide. You are one confused puppy.

Obviously, it is you who doesn't understand the terms you are struggling over. Your silly "apartheid" and "genocide" slogans are a hoot.

 

[MJB12741]

That is somewhat true. The plan of the Mandate was to assist immigrating Jews in getting Palestinian citizenship and forming an independent state for all of its citizens.

Thank you! So, legally, there was no problem with that, right?

But that is not what happened. The Zionists did not want to share the country with the Palestinians.

What they did was to expel the Palestinians and create a separate state just for themselves. That violated everything that was the Jewish National home.

The Zionists "expelled the Palestinians"??? Lets check this out. In 1948 there were approximately 1.2 million Palestinians living in Israel. And now there are just over 6 million of them left. Yep, it's a GENOCIDE. Right Tinmore?

Population Statistics - Israeli-Palestinian Conflict - ProCon.org

You still haven't figured out what genocide is. Unbelievable. But expelling people based on their religion, race, ethnicity, etc. is "ethnic cleansing", not genocide. You are one confused puppy.

Obviously, it is you who doesn't understand the terms you are struggling over. Your silly "apartheid" and "genocide" slogans are a hoot.

Yes but, what a relief from the real world he is.

 

[P F Tinmore]

That is somewhat true. The plan of the Mandate was to assist immigrating Jews in getting Palestinian citizenship and forming an independent state for all of its citizens.

Thank you! So, legally, there was no problem with that, right?

But that is not what happened. The Zionists did not want to share the country with the Palestinians.

What they did was to expel the Palestinians and create a separate state just for themselves. That violated everything that was the Jewish National home.

Of course, because you have fallen down and bumped your head, you have forgotten that the Arabs-Moslems refused every opportunirty to participate in the process of Mandate and achieving independence.

Those poor, helpless, shiftless, incompetent arabs.

Feel the burn.

You are so confused.

I know history. You don't. You can't claim ignorance as a defense for being ignorant.

You know Israeli talking points.