Israeli army used flechettes against Gaza civilians

[elvis]

there is something wrong with the site. It says I made the comments Biker made.

 

[GHook93]

Biker,

Kalam might have a differing perspective than you (and me for that matter), but he does approach it in level headed, rational and respective matter (unlike say Shogun and Sunni), giving respect back is probably in line. I am not a moderator so its just a suggestion, screaming back and forth doesn't foster constructive arguments. Who knows you might actually learn something from him!

I ask this every time I hear this argument, what is proportionate force?

​

Easier said then done. They don't wear uniforms, they hide amongst civilians and within civilian infrastructures, including towns, cities and villages, they fire missiles (which are mobile) right from the heart of Gaza cities, including apartment buildings, market places and school yards and lastly they store their weapons in mosques, schools, hospitals and apartment buildings. Not to mention the fact the Gaza is one of the most densely populated areas in the world!

It's impossible to do what you are asking! I wish Hamas members held signs on themselves saying I am a Hamas member and a legitimate target! But it doesn't happen that way.

Hamas has government buildings. Hamas has military installations. Those don't move. bomb them, or bomb nothing.

Fine.......Hamas has installations and buildings, but, my question is, why the FUCK do they use schools, hospitals and apartment buildings with civilians when they could use their own?

I'll tell ya why.......those moslem cocksuckers are cowards and don't have the courage or the discipline to fight like men, they fight like pussy assed cowards, hiding behind women children and the old.

Kalam, if there was ANY truth to your views concerning Hamas, they would act like adults and men, rather than the children and cowards that they are currently acting as.

Islam has no unity, because all that fucked up theology is, is a way to keep people divided, and the various factions are all clamoring for superiority, which is why the ME is in the situation that they currently are in.

And........if the rumors that I heard over in the ME are true (someone told me that muslims are psychic and telepathic), then why the fuck can't you guys use it as a way to unite, rather than divide?

 

[Kalam]

I never once implied that Muslims were inferior to Israelis or anyone else.

Your hypocritical reverence towards the IDF in this conflict suggests otherwise.

Hamas was not formed to defend Gaza, but rather to destroy the nation of Israel. If Osama bin Laden were surrounded by civilians and the only way to kill him would be to kill the civilians around him, you woulldn't fire a rocket into the area?

Uh... hell no. I'd shoot him with a sniper rifle or something. Taking the life of one relatively powerless loon isn't worth taking the life of innocent civilians. Moreover, your scenario isn't exactly comparable to Israel's. What they're doing would be like the US dropping cluster munitions and white phosphorous all over Sana'a in an attempt to kill the people who bombed the USS Cole.

 

[Kalam]

there is something wrong with the site. It says I made the comments Biker made.

Must have been an error I made... should be OK now, though.

 

[elvis]

I never once implied that Muslims were inferior to Israelis or anyone else.

Your hypocritical reverence towards the IDF in this conflict suggests otherwise.

Hamas was not formed to defend Gaza, but rather to destroy the nation of Israel. If Osama bin Laden were surrounded by civilians and the only way to kill him would be to kill the civilians around him, you woulldn't fire a rocket into the area?

Uh... hell no. I'd shoot him with a sniper rifle or something. Taking the life of one relatively powerless loon isn't worth taking the life of innocent civilians. Moreover, your scenario isn't exactly comparable to Israel's. What they're doing would be like the US dropping cluster munitions and white phosphorous all over Sana'a in an attempt to kill the people who bombed the USS Cole.

in the scenario I am thinking of, the sniper rifle is not possible. It's true there is an individual named Moussoud who is trying to overthrow Pakistan's govt and who is much more dangerous than bin laden. so use him in the example if you like.

 

[DiveCon]

Biker,

Kalam might have a differing perspective than you (and me for that matter), but he does approach it in level headed, rational and respective matter (unlike say Shogun and Sunni), giving respect back is probably in line. I am not a moderator so its just a suggestion, screaming back and forth doesn't foster constructive arguments. Who knows you might actually learn something from him!

no he doesnt
he calls anyone that disagrees with him an Israeli apologist

 

[Kalam]

Biker,

Kalam might have a differing perspective than you (and me for that matter), but he does approach it in level headed, rational and respective matter (unlike say Shogun and Sunni), giving respect back is probably in line. I am not a moderator so its just a suggestion, screaming back and forth doesn't foster constructive arguments. Who knows you might actually learn something from him!

no he doesnt
he calls anyone that disagrees with him an Israeli apologist

I call Israeli apologists Israeli apologists. Some supporters of Israel, including some here, aren't. You are.

You're right, though, I'm not always respectful. I only act respectfully towards those who show the same respect to me.

 

[Kalam]

I never once implied that Muslims were inferior to Israelis or anyone else.

Your hypocritical reverence towards the IDF in this conflict suggests otherwise.

Hamas was not formed to defend Gaza, but rather to destroy the nation of Israel. If Osama bin Laden were surrounded by civilians and the only way to kill him would be to kill the civilians around him, you woulldn't fire a rocket into the area?

Uh... hell no. I'd shoot him with a sniper rifle or something. Taking the life of one relatively powerless loon isn't worth taking the life of innocent civilians. Moreover, your scenario isn't exactly comparable to Israel's. What they're doing would be like the US dropping cluster munitions and white phosphorous all over Sana'a in an attempt to kill the people who bombed the USS Cole.

in the scenario I am thinking of, the sniper rifle is not possible. It's true there is an individual named Moussoud who is trying to overthrow Pakistan's govt and who is much more dangerous than bin laden. so use him in the example if you like.

I've provided what I think is a more accurate comparison. No matter what either of us tries to compare the situation to, though, it'll be apples and oranges. I don't believe that the lives of hundreds of civilians are worth the lives of fewer terrorists, only a fraction of which have actually participated in attacks against Israel. You do. Am I correct in my assessment of your position?

 

[DiveCon]

Biker,

Kalam might have a differing perspective than you (and me for that matter), but he does approach it in level headed, rational and respective matter (unlike say Shogun and Sunni), giving respect back is probably in line. I am not a moderator so its just a suggestion, screaming back and forth doesn't foster constructive arguments. Who knows you might actually learn something from him!

no he doesnt
he calls anyone that disagrees with him an Israeli apologist

I call Israeli apologists Israeli apologists. Some supporters of Israel, including some here, aren't. You are.

You're right, though, I'm not always respectful. I only act respectfully towards those who show the same respect to me.

then you cant tell the difference
you are a fucking idiot in MY opinion
and i'm usually pretty good at exposing them
you've been exposed

 

[elvis]

Your hypocritical reverence towards the IDF in this conflict suggests otherwise.


Uh... hell no. I'd shoot him with a sniper rifle or something. Taking the life of one relatively powerless loon isn't worth taking the life of innocent civilians. Moreover, your scenario isn't exactly comparable to Israel's. What they're doing would be like the US dropping cluster munitions and white phosphorous all over Sana'a in an attempt to kill the people who bombed the USS Cole.

in the scenario I am thinking of, the sniper rifle is not possible. It's true there is an individual named Moussoud who is trying to overthrow Pakistan's govt and who is much more dangerous than bin laden. so use him in the example if you like.

I've provided what I think is a more accurate comparison. No matter what either of us tries to compare the situation to, though, it'll be apples and oranges. I don't believe that the lives of hundreds of civilians are worth the lives of fewer terrorists, only a fraction of which have actually participated in attacks against Israel. You do. Am I correct in my assessment of your position?

In the very moment of killing Moussoud, yes. because how many future lives would you be saving? thousands, I would guess.
al qaeda is hellbent on destroying America. Hamas is hellbent on destroying israel. Neither group will stop until Israel or Hamas or America or al qaeda is destroyed.
The US would overthrow a govt if rockets were shot into her ONCE. Yet if Israel overthrew Hamas, after God knows how many rockets she has sustained, she would be scorned by the world.

 

[Kalam]

then you cant tell the difference
you are a fucking idiot in MY opinion
and i'm usually pretty good at exposing them
you've been exposed

Your posts either consist of lame, platitudinous one-liners about how gosh darn swell Israel is, or puerile insults that do nothing to advance your ridiculous argument that Israel is perfect.

"you've been exposed"

What a tool.

 

[Kalam]

In the very moment of killing Moussoud, yes. because how many future lives would you be saving? thousands, I would guess.

I'm talking about Hamas, not Moussoud, whoever the hell that is. How many Israelis have been killed by rocket attacks since they began years ago? Less than 30 total. How many casualties did Israel cause in Cast Lead? How many future civilian casualties will they cause? Thousands, I would guess.

al qaeda is hellbent on destroying America. Hamas is hellbent on destroying israel. Neither group will stop until Israel or Hamas or America or al qaeda is destroyed.

Hamas was willing to agree to a ceasefire with Israel, and abode by the mutually understood terms of that ceasefire. Israel did not. Your comparison of Hamas to al-Qaeda is ridiculously disingenuous.

The US would overthrow a govt if rockets were shot into her ONCE. Yet if Israel overthrew Hamas, after God knows how many rockets she has sustained, she would be scorned by the world.

If the US killed large numbers of innocent civilians because it used its superior weaponry irresponsibly, it would be equally deserving of censure.

 

[elvis]

Hamas would not honor a cease-fire. at least for very long. Both Hamas and al qaeda are dedicated to destroying their respective enemies.

 

[Kalam]

Hamas would not honor a cease-fire. at least for very long.

Yeah, well, they did. Four months... virtually nothing done by Israel to ease up on the blockade as stipulated. The attacks resumed, and Cast Lead happened.

 

[DiveCon]

then you cant tell the difference
you are a fucking idiot in MY opinion
and i'm usually pretty good at exposing them
you've been exposed

Your posts either consist of lame, platitudinous one-liners about how gosh darn swell Israel is, or puerile insults that do nothing to advance your ridiculous argument that Israel is perfect.

"you've been exposed"

What a tool.

you are a liar
i have never said anything even remotely like "Israel is so swell"
and if you can actually show a case where Israel has done wrong, i would agree with you
but to complain about Israel responding to THOUSANDS of rockets, missiles, and mortars being lobbed at them by assholes that hide behind women and children i wont go for

 

[DiveCon]

Hamas would not honor a cease-fire. at least for very long.

Yeah, well, they did. Four months... virtually nothing done by Israel to ease up on the blockade as stipulated. The attacks resumed, and Cast Lead happened.

only they still lobbed rockets, mortars and missile during that time
you excuse it because "it wasnt that many"

a cease fire mean they dont lob ANY

 

[DiveCon]

Hamas would not honor a cease-fire. at least for very long. Both Hamas and al qaeda are dedicated to destroying their respective enemies.

he excuses them but castigates Israel for responding

 

[DiveCon]

In the very moment of killing Moussoud, yes. because how many future lives would you be saving? thousands, I would guess.

I'm talking about Hamas, not Moussoud, whoever the hell that is. How many Israelis have been killed by rocket attacks since they began years ago? Less than 30 total. How many casualties did Israel cause in Cast Lead? How many future civilian casualties will they cause? Thousands, I would guess.

al qaeda is hellbent on destroying America. Hamas is hellbent on destroying israel. Neither group will stop until Israel or Hamas or America or al qaeda is destroyed.

Hamas was willing to agree to a ceasefire with Israel, and abode by the mutually understood terms of that ceasefire. Israel did not. Your comparison of Hamas to al-Qaeda is ridiculously disingenuous.

The US would overthrow a govt if rockets were shot into her ONCE. Yet if Israel overthrew Hamas, after God knows how many rockets she has sustained, she would be scorned by the world.

If the US killed large numbers of innocent civilians because it used its superior weaponry irresponsibly, it would be equally deserving of censure.

again, read the Geneva Conventions
Hamas is the group resposinbe when they put civilians at risk

 

[Kalam]

Hamas would not honor a cease-fire. at least for very long.

Yeah, well, they did. Four months... virtually nothing done by Israel to ease up on the blockade as stipulated. The attacks resumed, and Cast Lead happened.

only they still lobbed rockets, mortars and missile during that time
you excuse it because "it wasnt that many"

a cease fire mean they dont lob ANY

They didn't. There are groups other than Hamas in the Gaza Strip. They can't monitor every single person at every single moment. The understood terms of the agreement weren't that Hamas would completely prevent all rocket and missile fire; the understanding was that Israel's removal of the blockade would be directly related to Hamas' reduction of missile and mortar fire. Hamas reduced it almost completely, therefore, Israel should have almost completely removed the blockade.

 

[DiveCon]

Yeah, well, they did. Four months... virtually nothing done by Israel to ease up on the blockade as stipulated. The attacks resumed, and Cast Lead happened.

only they still lobbed rockets, mortars and missile during that time
you excuse it because "it wasnt that many"

a cease fire mean they dont lob ANY

They didn't. There are groups other than Hamas in the Gaza Strip. They can't monitor every single person at every single moment. The understood terms of the agreement weren't that Hamas would completely prevent all rocket and missile fire; the understanding was that Israel's removal of the blockade would be directly related to Hamas' reduction of missile and mortar fire. Hamas reduced it almost completely, therefore, Israel should have almost completely removed the blockade.

yes they did RETARD

and, if they didnt, why didnt they arrest those that did?
you have to remember they ARE the government in Gaza
would you be as forgiving if it wasnt the IDF bombing Gaza, but other groups that Israel just allowed them to do so without repercussions?

NO
you would blame Israel

Hamas apologist