Israeli army used flechettes against Gaza civilians

[DiveCon]

sorry, there was no cease fire by Hamas

Hamas completely stopped firing all of its rockets and mortars for a period of multiple months and prevented all but a few members of other terrorist groups from doing so during that period.

Wait, let me guess:
"Waaah! Hamas couldn't prevent 12 rockets from being fired from July to October! Clearly, they're bloodthirsty, Jew-hating terrorists who didn't respect the cease-fire at all!

Say, how about we bomb the living shit out of that place they're from? That seems like a good solution to me."

if a single rocket, mortar or missile flew out of gaza, it was hamas fault

 

[Kalam]

if a single rocket, mortar or missile flew out of gaza, it was hamas fault

Fucking retard. Do you expect them to stand shoulder-to-shoulder all around the border?

The understanding was that Israel's easing of the blockade would be directly related to Hamas' ability to decrease missile fire. Hamas succeeded in reducing missile fire by nearly 100%. Israel barely did anything WRT the crippling blockade, so the attacks resumed.

 

[DavidS]

DiveCon you and many people seem to forget that the Israeli occupation started way before terrorist elements started shooting rockets at Southern Gaza.

Occupation? What occupation? You mean Gaza and the West Bank? You mean land won in war? Holy shit! Let's call all the countries that have taken land in war and tell them to give it back to their original owners. Wait. We can't do that. Okay. So why aren't you telling Poland to give land it was given back to Germany? Or America to give back the land it took from the Native Americans. Well, it's okay when they do it - but it's only an occupation when the Jews do it. I see.

 

[DavidS]

If the link doesn't load for you, you can get to the report from here:

Israel: White Phosphorus Use Evidence of War Crimes | Human Rights Watch

The human rights watch?

Hahahahahaha.

That's about as factual as Weekly World News.

 

[Kalam]

The human rights watch?

Hahahahahaha.

That's about as factual as Weekly World News.

Your comment holds about as much water as Gazan plumbing installations.

 

[DiveCon]

The human rights watch?

Hahahahahaha.

That's about as factual as Weekly World News.

Your comment holds about as much water as Gazan plumbing installations.

so, you are saying Gazans are too stupid to do plumbing?

 

[Kalam]

The human rights watch?

Hahahahahaha.

That's about as factual as Weekly World News.

Your comment holds about as much water as Gazan plumbing installations.

so, you are saying Gazans are too stupid to do plumbing?

No, retard, I was referring to the Israeli blockade that has deprived Gazans of clean water and all means of repairing their infrastructure (in addition to things such as jobs, food supplies, electric power, medical treatment, etc.) What do you care, though? They aren't human unless they're Jews, right? Israel can do whatever the fuck it wants to Gaza's civilians because some big bad men from Hamas toss rockets at them and make them feel scared, right?

 

[tigerbob]

Apart from white phosphorus, the Israeli army used a variety of other weapons in densely populated civilian areas of Gaza in the three-week conflict that began on 27 December.

Flechettes are 4cm long metal darts that are sharply pointed at the front, with four fins at the rear. Between 5,000 and 8,000 are packed into 120mm shells which are generally fired from tanks. The shells explode in the air and scatter the flechettes in a conical pattern over an area about 300m wide and 100m long.

An anti-personnel weapon designed to penetrate dense vegetation, flechettes should never be used in built-up civilian areas. The Israeli army has used them in Gaza periodically for several years. In most cases their use has resulted in civilians being killed or injured.

Amnesty International's fact-finding team in Gaza first heard about the use of flechettes in the most recent conflict some ten days ago. The father of one of the victims showed the team a flechette which had been taken out of his son's body.

Israeli army used flechettes against Gaza civilians | Amnesty International

If this is true it is repugnant.

 

[GHook93]

DavidS the people we know today as Arabs descend from many different peoples and weren't all simply a handful of nomadic traders before Islam as you claim man. Perhaps you haven't heard of the Ancient Egyptians, the Nabbataens, the Asyrians, the Sassinids, and a number of others to name a few.

You are a dishonest, disingenuous LIAR! The Palestinians are ARABS, they are direct dissident of the Arab Caliphates/Crusaders of the 7th century, as is the how middle east and North Africa outside of Iran and Israel! Shit the majority of the Palestinians immigrated to the Area during the British Mandates White Paper era! Israel/Palestine was at his lower population during the Ottoman Rule, which lasted until 1917!

I totally agree that it is a horrible thing when people are caught in the crossfire in a combat zone. But mine and everyone from the UN to the European Union's problem is things like flechette tank shells being fired into densely populated neighborhoods, which the IDF who undoubtably with an extremely in-accurate weapon like a white phosporus artillery shell, or a flechette tank shell isn't just going to hit the buildings they are forced to destory, due to militant activity. It's going to maximise the killing of those that it shouldn't have.

When civilians, esp children get caught in the cross-fire its very unfortunate. But Israel has no choice, the Hamas terrorist do not wear uniforms (much like the Hezbollah terrorist), the Hamas terrorist fire their missiles and mortar, not from open fields, but from cities, apartment buildings, mosques and even schools! They have no problem storing weapons in schools, mosques or other soft civilian targets! War is hell, but the constant missile attacks Gave Israel NO CHOICE! In every urban combat zone, from WW II, Vietnam to Iraq, civilian causalities are unavoidable! I wish not one child, women or civilian could be killed, but like I said war is hell and civilians unfortunately get killed when terrorist bring the fight to these areas!

 

[GHook93]

sorry, there was no cease fire by Hamas

Hamas completely stopped firing all of its rockets and mortars for a period of multiple months and prevented all but a few members of other terrorist groups from doing so during that period.

Wait, let me guess:
"Waaah! Hamas couldn't prevent 12 rockets from being fired from July to October! Clearly, they're bloodthirsty, Jew-hating terrorists who didn't respect the cease-fire at all!

Say, how about we bomb the living shit out of that place they're from? That seems like a good solution to me."

Very true, to Hamas's credit they upheld the cease fire, but I think they mainly did it in order to rearm. If it was a serious cease fire they would have agreed to have direct talks, which starts with Hamas saying it will recognize Israel's right to exist. I personally think Israel should engage them directly before then and have part of the recognition as a final peace agreement!

 

[Kalam]

Very true, to Hamas's credit they upheld the cease fire, but I think they mainly did it in order to rearm.

Perhaps, but I believe that their main aim was to secure the lifting of the blockade. Rearming is something Hamas can do while it's still carrying on its fight. Unless it overwhelms Israel militarily, which won't happen, agreeing to some sort of ceasefire was its only means of having the blockade removed.

If it was a serious cease fire they would have agreed to have direct talks, which starts with Hamas saying it will recognize Israel's right to exist. I personally think Israel should engage them directly before then and have part of the recognition as a final peace agreement!

This I wouldn't have a problem with. What I'm opposed to is Israel's habit of responding to rocket-lobbing terrorists disproportionately by trying to bomb civilian urban centers into complete capitulation. Kill Hamas. Bomb their government buildings and military installations. Don't take the fight to civilians, whether Hamas wants to or not.

 

[GHook93]

This I wouldn't have a problem with. What I'm opposed to is Israel's habit of responding to rocket-lobbing terrorists disproportionately by trying to bomb civilian urban centers into complete capitulation.

I ask this every time I hear this argument, what is proportionate force? Would you be OK if Israel allowed the residents of Sderot or Negev fire crude missiles striking random civilian targets in Gaza cities? I don't you would answer yes! Therefore Israel has to respond! No country in the world would allow its citizens to be harassed and attacked by neighboring foreign entities. However, I won't act like the I/P conflict is not a unique situation.

Kill Hamas. Bomb their government buildings and military installations. Don't take the fight to civilians, whether Hamas wants to or not.

Easier said then done. They don't wear uniforms, they hide amongst civilians and within civilian infrastructures, including towns, cities and villages, they fire missiles (which are mobile) right from the heart of Gaza cities, including apartment buildings, market places and school yards and lastly they store their weapons in mosques, schools, hospitals and apartment buildings. Not to mention the fact the Gaza is one of the most densely populated areas in the world!

It's impossible to do what you are asking! I wish Hamas members held signs on themselves saying I am a Hamas member and a legitimate target! But it doesn't happen that way.

 

[elvis]

Every civilian death is Hamas' fault. If they would stop lobbing rockets into Israel, no civilians in Gaza would get killed. Simple as that.

 

[Kalam]

I ask this every time I hear this argument, what is proportionate force?

Kill Hamas. Bomb their government buildings and military installations. Don't take the fight to civilians, whether Hamas wants to or not.

Easier said then done. They don't wear uniforms, they hide amongst civilians and within civilian infrastructures, including towns, cities and villages, they fire missiles (which are mobile) right from the heart of Gaza cities, including apartment buildings, market places and school yards and lastly they store their weapons in mosques, schools, hospitals and apartment buildings. Not to mention the fact the Gaza is one of the most densely populated areas in the world!

It's impossible to do what you are asking! I wish Hamas members held signs on themselves saying I am a Hamas member and a legitimate target! But it doesn't happen that way.

Hamas has government buildings. Hamas has military installations. Those don't move. bomb them, or bomb nothing.

 

[Kalam]

Every civilian death is Hamas' fault. If they would stop lobbing rockets into Israel, no civilians in Gaza would get killed. Simple as that.

Typical retarded bullshit from an Israel worshiper.

 

[elvis]

Every civilian death is Hamas' fault. If they would stop lobbing rockets into Israel, no civilians in Gaza would get killed. Simple as that.

Typical retarded bullshit from an Israel worshiper.

Is it? you're talking about an organization that is dedicated to the DESTRUCTION of Israel. I suppose you are against the US invasion of Afghanistan after 9/11 as well.

 

[Kalam]

Every civilian death is Hamas' fault. If they would stop lobbing rockets into Israel, no civilians in Gaza would get killed. Simple as that.

Typical retarded bullshit from an Israel worshiper.

Is it?

Yessir. You're essentially saying that since Hamas "hides everywhere among civilians," Israel has the right to bomb the entire city of Gaza without having to worry about how many civilians it kills because it's "all the terrorists' fault!" After all, they're subhuman Muslims, not Israeli Jews who can do no wrong, right? That position, sir, is retarded bullshit. I call you and some of your pals Israel worshipers because you're apparently more blinded by your weird-ass Israeli patriotism than many Israelis are.

you're talking about an organization that is dedicated to the DESTRUCTION of Israel.

Organizations like that tend to form when they perceive that enemy groups are working towards their own people's destruction.

I suppose you are against the US invasion of Afghanistan after 9/11 as well.

You're unable to make a post with inanely accusing of things that bear no pertinence whatsoever to what's being discussed. That dog won't hunt, friend.

 

[ABikerSailor]

I ask this every time I hear this argument, what is proportionate force?

Kill Hamas. Bomb their government buildings and military installations. Don't take the fight to civilians, whether Hamas wants to or not.

Easier said then done. They don't wear uniforms, they hide amongst civilians and within civilian infrastructures, including towns, cities and villages, they fire missiles (which are mobile) right from the heart of Gaza cities, including apartment buildings, market places and school yards and lastly they store their weapons in mosques, schools, hospitals and apartment buildings. Not to mention the fact the Gaza is one of the most densely populated areas in the world!

It's impossible to do what you are asking! I wish Hamas members held signs on themselves saying I am a Hamas member and a legitimate target! But it doesn't happen that way.

Hamas has government buildings. Hamas has military installations. Those don't move. bomb them, or bomb nothing.

Fine.......Hamas has installations and buildings, but, my question is, why the FUCK do they use schools, hospitals and apartment buildings with civilians when they could use their own?

I'll tell ya why.......those moslem cocksuckers are cowards and don't have the courage or the discipline to fight like men, they fight like pussy assed cowards, hiding behind women children and the old.

Kalam, if there was ANY truth to your views concerning Hamas, they would act like adults and men, rather than the children and cowards that they are currently acting as.

Islam has no unity, because all that fucked up theology is, is a way to keep people divided, and the various factions are all clamoring for superiority, which is why the ME is in the situation that they currently are in.

And........if the rumors that I heard over in the ME are true (someone told me that muslims are psychic and telepathic), then why the fuck can't you guys use it as a way to unite, rather than divide?

 

[elvis]

Typical retarded bullshit from an Israel worshiper.

Is it?

Yessir. You're essentially saying that since Hamas "hides everywhere among civilians," Israel has the right to bomb the entire city of Gaza without having to worry about how many civilians it kills because it's "all the terrorists' fault!" After all, they're subhuman Muslims, not Israeli Jews who can do no wrong, right? That position, sir, is retarded bullshit. I call you and some of your pals Israel worshipers because you're apparently more blinded by your weird-ass Israeli patriotism than many Israelis are.

you're talking about an organization that is dedicated to the DESTRUCTION of Israel.

Organizations like that tend to form when they perceive that enemy groups are working towards their own people's destruction.

I suppose you are against the US invasion of Afghanistan after 9/11 as well.

You're unable to make a post with inanely accusing of things that bear no pertinence whatsoever to what's being discussed. That dog won't hunt, friend.

I never once implied that Muslims were inferior to Israelis or anyone else. Hamas was not formed to defend Gaza, but rather to destroy the nation of Israel. If Osama bin Laden were surrounded by civilians and the only way to kill him would be to kill the civilians around him, you woulldn't fire a rocket into the area? If the US defends itself in a certain way, it MUST be ok for Israel to do the same.

 

[Kalam]

Fine.......Hamas has installations and buildings, but, my question is, why the FUCK do they use schools, hospitals and apartment buildings with civilians when they could use their own?

Because they're idiots, and because they don't want to make their organization so vulnerable to Israel. Their radical ideology makes Israel want to destroy them completely, which would be simple if they concentrated themselves in a few government and military buildings. They aren't about to let that happen.

I'll tell ya why.......those moslem cocksuckers are cowards and don't have the courage or the discipline to fight like men, they fight like pussy assed cowards, hiding behind women children and the old.

It can't exactly be called cowardice when the abject disproportionality of the conflict is taken into account. Hamas would be even more retarded than they are now if they, with their shitty Russian rifles and homemade rockets, confronted Israel, with its expansive and modern arsenal, in direct and open warfare.

Kalam, if there was ANY truth to your views concerning Hamas, they would act like adults and men, rather than the children and cowards that they are currently acting as.

Hamas is morally bankrupt because it occasionally endangers civilians by operating in civilian areas. The IDF is morally bankrupt because they're dumb enough and apathetic enough to decimate civilian populations anyway. The difference between me and supporters of the IDF in this conflict is that I hate both and recognize that both are made up (largely) of terroristic retards with no concern for civilian livelihood. Y'all hypocritically treat one group of idiots as if its Satan incarnate and the other as if it can do no wrong.

Islam has no unity, because all that fucked up theology is, is a way to keep people divided, and the various factions are all clamoring for superiority, which is why the ME is in the situation that they currently are in.

And........if the rumors that I heard over in the ME are true (someone told me that muslims are psychic and telepathic), then why the fuck can't you guys use it as a way to unite, rather than divide?

This has nothing to do with Islam as far as I'm concerned. I don't really give a damn about the religious affiliation of either side, because I feel about as much of a connection to Hamas' stupid-ass religious ideology as I do to radical Judaism.