Israel , U.S., and suffering

Discussion in 'Israel and Palestine' started by godhelpus, Feb 19, 2008.

  1. godhelpus
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    godhelpus Member

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    Israeli's have suffered. No doubt about it. say it again, Israeli's have suffered. For all of that suffereing there seems to be a collective wave of thought that has emerged from the isreali people. Its seems to be that because of that suffering they have a right to go about the world and settle scores how they see fit, And to make sure that they can position there people in seats of power around the globe ensuring that international foreign policy is set in a matter that has no regard for anyone except Isreal. Here is a quote that seems to be common.

    "In 2003 a young Israeli officer was interviewed on British television and asked about the damage to Palestinian children. The ratio of Palestinians to Israeli injuries was so out of balance. Was this right? "The young officer, a third generation from the time of the Holocaust, said, 'the only authority to what we are doing is the gas chambers.'"

    I personally feel for the jews in isreal , and certainly they are entitled to peace for their children. It just seems that too many times they try and take two wrongs to make a right. I also personally believe as do many others , that Isreali intelligence has cultivated many of our politicians and thier own citizens who have become U.S. politicians ( as is evident by how many top ranking U.S. officials hold dual U.S./Isreali citizenship and the power AIPAC seems to hold over our government) To set all their policy to the best interests of Isreal not the United States. While i firmly believe we should look out for the bests interests of our allies, i feel this is a big part of what is leading to the destruction of the United States of America today. I also believe that Palestinian Children As well as any children in the world deserve life and a childhood. I am not solely blaming Isreal for the problems in thier region, I just wish they would err more on the side of life and not make the mistakes of old that saw their own people suffer.
     
  2. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    There are more than a million, mostly Palestinian Arabs residing with full citizenship in Israel. They are prospering, are not discriminated against except that they can have a deferment from military service if they want it (on the theory that military conflicts will likely be against other Arabs). They have representation on the Knesset.

    The other Palestinians would almost certainly be enjoying the same kind of treatment if their leadership was not on the record as intending to wipe Israel off the face of the earth--that includes Fatah, Hamas, Hezbollah--and if every concession that Israel has made to the Palestinians had not been rewarded with more suicide bombers and rockets fired indiscriminately into Israeli residential neighborhoods. The anti-Israel world out there demands that Israel make the Palestinians full citizens but relinquish all claim on the land the Palestinians live on. How stupid is that?

    Israel can be faulted for overreaction and some of their policy, but how rational can they be expected to be in the face of busloads of school children blown up, devastation in private markets, constant rocket fire? The fact is, the Jews have never had a homeland since the Romans threw them out of Jerusalem, and they have been the most persistently persecuted, maligned, and discriminated people on the face of the Earth throughout their very long history. The UN attempted to rectify that by giving the Jews a tiny plot of land--less land than you find in two New Mexico counties--so that they could for the first time have charge of their own destiny, make their own laws, and live as Jews without fear that their freedoms would be taken away from them. They have been consistently maligned for that too, however.

    To fault the Jews for effectively retaliating against Palestinian attacks is as absurd as faulting the police for being more effective retaliating against rioters or other criminals.

    The Palestinians intentionally fire their weapons and hide amongst women and children inviting return fire so that they can point to the carnage and claim sympathy from the world. The other Arab countries are more than happy to allow the Palestinians to suffer so they can heap recriminations upon Israel and justify their irrational hatred for Israel.

    The fact is that the only people that give a damn about the Palestinians are the Israelis who treat very well those Palestinians who aren't pledged to destroy Israel and who aren't actively engaged in Israel's destruction.
     
  3. godhelpus
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    godhelpus Member

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    I am not faulting them for their reaction, but for their overreaction like you have also said. I can only imagine the fine line needed to mount an effective counter attack VS. minimal civilian casulties. It just seems like they do not take those civilian casualties into consideration too often. As a father i cant bear to keep seeing these images of babies and children dead or hurt. I think many times some of the solutions presented to both sides are quickly dismissed as not wanting to give into the other.

    I also think that American policy is too heavily swayed by israeli policy. I think it puts the children of the United States right into the line of fire. Sometimes i feel that Isreal feels that they have that right to put Americans in that situation because Americans have lived this protected life and why should Isreali children be the only ones to go through this. It just kind of comes off to me that way sometimes. Again I cant bear to keep seeing these innocent children hurt, Isreali , palestinian , or American.
     
  4. José
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    José Gold Member

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    In other words, you believe in ethnic supremacism in Palestine.

    You believe that a group of human beings have the right to deny another group their to live in their homeland, confining them in fenced enclaves.

    You believe that a group of human beings, to the extent that they share a common ethnic denominator, are entitled to more rights than any other group who do not belong to the same ethnicity.

    I gotta tell you.

    I would give my right arm to be able to understand the schizophrenic political thought that rules the mind of the super patriotic american clown.

    How can a mentally sane individual support democracy and racial equality in America and jewish racism in Palestine creating dozens of rationalizations to justify that racism?
     
  5. Shogun
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    Shogun Free: Mudholes Stomped

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    good luck dude.


    few in this crowd believe in anything beyond the rights of israel, right or wrong.
     
  6. jillian
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    jillian Princess Supporting Member

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    what a freaking lie... it's that most, thankfully, don't subscribe to your:

    Israel sucks/pals good mentality.

    But what do I know, I'm just a zionist jew, right?
     
  7. Shogun
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    you tell me... you ARE the new master race and Im just the dirty little antisemite goyim, right?


    MOST? do you have evidence of that or did your little circle jerk with dr bitch suffice? Indeed, I defy you to quote me suggesting any such thing.. but, thankfully, more than a few peeps notice your pattern of demonizing anyone critical is israel with a Scarlet A while deflecting everything at arabs.
     
  8. godhelpus
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    godhelpus Member

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    i certainly hope your not talking about me, i certinly said nothing even close to the ignorant statement you just made. What i said was that the children of both Isreali and Palastinian children deserve a future.
     
  9. José
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    José Gold Member

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    Of course I wasn't referring to you, godhelpus.

    The compassionate tone of your post was deeply moving : )
     
  10. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    The Palestinian refugees left the area voluntarily in advance of intended attacks by Islamic countries determined to eradicate the Jews from the face of the Earth or certainly from the Middle East. They (the refugees) intended to return and occupy Israel once the Jews had been exterminated or driven out. They were foiled when they found out the Jews were not so easily exterminated nor driven out.

    The Jews had asked the Palestinians to stay. Those who did dwell peacefully as good Israeli citizens with full citizen rights. There are well over a million of them and there is no problem at all between Arab and Jew there.

    The rest do not and will not give their allegiance to Israel but rather give their allegiance to leadership determined to destroy Israel. If Israel vacates the West Bank or Golan Heights or Gaza and leave those areas to the Palestinians, Israel is rewarded with increased terrorist attacks from those areas. Israel builds walls to keep out the bombers, not to keep anybody in. Anybody who wants to leave Israel is entirely free to do so.

    And what is overreaction? Was taking out the Taliban in Afghanistan overreaction for the murder to 3000 people in the 9/11 attacks? Do some of you think war has been reduced to a one for one equation? We kill one and you kill one, but it has to be equal? How ignorant is that?

    Israel is not initiating attacks against the Palestinians. They do retaliate with significant force when attacked however. If the Palestinians would leave Israel alone or acknowledge Israel's right to exist and denounce terrorism, they would find Israel to be much better friends and neighbors than the Arabs who don't give a damn about the Palestinians and exploit them mercilessly for propaganda purposes.

    That is the reality. All that is needed for peace to reign in the Israel/Arab conflict is for the Arabs to stop murdering and trying to murder Israelis.
     

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