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when you talk of "law of armed conflict" whose law are you talking about? some war college nonsense? something you got from tom clancy? something that's actually been codified by treaty between nations. don't forget that fighting out of uniform may be what won us our independance.
last summer i saw a videotape of an israeli unit in gaza hosing down civilians who were clearly non-combatant. there have been repeated accusations of kidnapping and other improper actions taken against palestinian people.
admittedly, the media sources on both sides of the issue seem to be highly questionable.
the libel dodge is just that --- a dodge that apologists for the bad behavior of a segment of the children of israel love to use. just scream anti-semitic blood libel anytime there's an accusation that the israeli government cannot plausibly deny.
genocide is still genocide and the extremists on both sides of this conflict see that as the only real solution to the conflict.
to them both i say DAYENU!
Allah made the Jews leave their homes by terrorizing them so that you killed some and made many captive. And He made you inherit their lands, their homes, and their wealth. He gave you a country you had not traversed before.
you ducked the main question which was what are you citing when you quote something as being a "law of armed conflict"?
the claim i made about the extremists from both sides seeking genocide is not inane. go talk to a chabad rabbi about what he thinks should happen in israel. another good source is a not insignificant number of american jews with dual citizenship who have served in the IDF.
many of these people do not see any other solution to the conflict but to kill all the palestinians. granted the palestinians and other arabs have been pretty vocal about killing the jews off, but i must invoke golda again and remind you that killing is one of the least desirable behaviors any human can exhibit.
i am not in a position to argue in favor of the majority of islamic people who almost certainly do not believe or support the jihadists.
i am also not going to try and tell you you are wrong about the old testament vs. koran --- it seems that you have armed yourself well with the relevant passages in the koran and overlooked some significant slaughters in the old testament.
here's a fresh incident. unfortunately the video is at btselem and you don't believe them to be valid (just out of curiosity what's your take on alex jones and Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind! ?)
Palestinian demonstrator shot dead by Israeli army
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Big News Network.com Saturday 1st May, 2010
A Palestinian youth, Ahmad Sliman Salem Dib, 19, died Wednesday after Israeli security forces shot him, in the morning, near the border fence with the Gaza Strip, while he was participating in a demonstration there.
The incident was caught on video by Muhammad Sabah, a field researcher for Israeli human rights organization B’Tselem.
The video shows a group of Palestinian and international activists walking in procession from the al-Shaja'iya neighborhood in the eastern Gaza Strip to the border fence with Israel.
The youths, who were unarmed, reached a distance of a few dozen meters from the border, and stood facing an Israeli military post. The footage shows a soldier standing by the post. Some of the protestors threw stones at the post. A single shot is heard. Ahmad was shot and wounded. He was taken by ambulance to Shifaa Hospital in Gaza City, but died of his wounds later that day.
An Israeli army spokesperson said in a statement that “the force acted in order to distance the demonstrators and fired with the aim of distancing them. The area by the border fence is a combat zone and the presence of terrorist elements there endangers the residents of Israel and the security forces operating in the area.”
Using live fire “for distancing” is illegal, says B'thelem. The footage clearly shows that the demonstrators posed no threat to residents of Israel or to security forces. B’Tselem says it has documented many events in which Israeli security forces have used lethal means against stone-throwers and unarmed demonstrators in the West Bank. Since May 2008, at least eight Palestinians have been killed by security forces during demonstrations. Some of them were shot with live ammunition, while others were killed by rubber-coated metal bullets and gas canisters fired directly at them.
In addition, B’Tselem says it has gathered testimonies in recent years indicating that security forces have declared broad areas near the border fence between Israel and the Gaza Strip as “death zones”, in which open-fire regulations permit firing at anyone entering them, even if the person poses no life threat. Some of these areas closed to Palestinians are cultivated agricultural areas that are a source of livelihood for many Gazans. The present wave of demonstrations is part of a popular movement against the “death zones." In the past, officials denied that these areas had been closed to Palestinians, yet today, this procedure has become official policy and the army has even distributed pamphlets on the matter throughout the Gaza Strip, B'Tselem says.
The B'Tselem video can be viewed at:
B'Tselem - The Gaza Strip - 28 April 2010: Youth shot this morning by Israeli security forces on Gaza border dies
here's a fresh incident. unfortunately the video is at btselem and you don't believe them to be valid (just out of curiosity what's your take on alex jones and Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind! ?)
Palestinian demonstrator shot dead by Israeli army
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Big News Network.com Saturday 1st May, 2010
A Palestinian youth, Ahmad Sliman Salem Dib, 19, died Wednesday after Israeli security forces shot him, in the morning, near the border fence with the Gaza Strip, while he was participating in a demonstration there.
The incident was caught on video by Muhammad Sabah, a field researcher for Israeli human rights organization BTselem.
The video shows a group of Palestinian and international activists walking in procession from the al-Shaja'iya neighborhood in the eastern Gaza Strip to the border fence with Israel.
The youths, who were unarmed, reached a distance of a few dozen meters from the border, and stood facing an Israeli military post. The footage shows a soldier standing by the post. Some of the protestors threw stones at the post. A single shot is heard. Ahmad was shot and wounded. He was taken by ambulance to Shifaa Hospital in Gaza City, but died of his wounds later that day.
An Israeli army spokesperson said in a statement that the force acted in order to distance the demonstrators and fired with the aim of distancing them. The area by the border fence is a combat zone and the presence of terrorist elements there endangers the residents of Israel and the security forces operating in the area.
Using live fire for distancing is illegal, says B'thelem. The footage clearly shows that the demonstrators posed no threat to residents of Israel or to security forces. BTselem says it has documented many events in which Israeli security forces have used lethal means against stone-throwers and unarmed demonstrators in the West Bank. Since May 2008, at least eight Palestinians have been killed by security forces during demonstrations. Some of them were shot with live ammunition, while others were killed by rubber-coated metal bullets and gas canisters fired directly at them.
In addition, BTselem says it has gathered testimonies in recent years indicating that security forces have declared broad areas near the border fence between Israel and the Gaza Strip as death zones, in which open-fire regulations permit firing at anyone entering them, even if the person poses no life threat. Some of these areas closed to Palestinians are cultivated agricultural areas that are a source of livelihood for many Gazans. The present wave of demonstrations is part of a popular movement against the death zones." In the past, officials denied that these areas had been closed to Palestinians, yet today, this procedure has become official policy and the army has even distributed pamphlets on the matter throughout the Gaza Strip, B'Tselem says.
The B'Tselem video can be viewed at:
B'Tselem - The Gaza Strip - 28 April 2010: Youth shot this morning by Israeli security forces on Gaza border dies
Completely bogus source and B'Tselem has a long history of anti-Israel bias.
There are numerous Arab-dominated areas of Judea and Samaria where Jews are prohibited and in danger of being shot if they enter.
here's a fresh incident. unfortunately the video is at btselem and you don't believe them to be valid (just out of curiosity what's your take on alex jones and Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind! ?)
Palestinian demonstrator shot dead by Israeli army
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Big News Network.com Saturday 1st May, 2010
A Palestinian youth, Ahmad Sliman Salem Dib, 19, died Wednesday after Israeli security forces shot him, in the morning, near the border fence with the Gaza Strip, while he was participating in a demonstration there.
The incident was caught on video by Muhammad Sabah, a field researcher for Israeli human rights organization BTselem.
The video shows a group of Palestinian and international activists walking in procession from the al-Shaja'iya neighborhood in the eastern Gaza Strip to the border fence with Israel.
The youths, who were unarmed, reached a distance of a few dozen meters from the border, and stood facing an Israeli military post. The footage shows a soldier standing by the post. Some of the protestors threw stones at the post. A single shot is heard. Ahmad was shot and wounded. He was taken by ambulance to Shifaa Hospital in Gaza City, but died of his wounds later that day.
An Israeli army spokesperson said in a statement that the force acted in order to distance the demonstrators and fired with the aim of distancing them. The area by the border fence is a combat zone and the presence of terrorist elements there endangers the residents of Israel and the security forces operating in the area.
Using live fire for distancing is illegal, says B'thelem. The footage clearly shows that the demonstrators posed no threat to residents of Israel or to security forces. BTselem says it has documented many events in which Israeli security forces have used lethal means against stone-throwers and unarmed demonstrators in the West Bank. Since May 2008, at least eight Palestinians have been killed by security forces during demonstrations. Some of them were shot with live ammunition, while others were killed by rubber-coated metal bullets and gas canisters fired directly at them.
In addition, BTselem says it has gathered testimonies in recent years indicating that security forces have declared broad areas near the border fence between Israel and the Gaza Strip as death zones, in which open-fire regulations permit firing at anyone entering them, even if the person poses no life threat. Some of these areas closed to Palestinians are cultivated agricultural areas that are a source of livelihood for many Gazans. The present wave of demonstrations is part of a popular movement against the death zones." In the past, officials denied that these areas had been closed to Palestinians, yet today, this procedure has become official policy and the army has even distributed pamphlets on the matter throughout the Gaza Strip, B'Tselem says.
The B'Tselem video can be viewed at:
B'Tselem - The Gaza Strip - 28 April 2010: Youth shot this morning by Israeli security forces on Gaza border dies
Completely bogus source and B'Tselem has a long history of anti-Israel bias.
There are numerous Arab-dominated areas of Judea and Samaria where Jews are prohibited and in danger of being shot if they enter.
methinks its time for you do show a little more than simple declaratives that dismiss anything you don't agree with. sure looked to me like b'tselem has some pretty strong credentials. what are yours other than you've read the koran cover to cover and think the zionists shit doesn't stink?
that a rock throwing was responded to at a demonstration with deadly force seems to be an indisputable fact here. i suppose that justifies the act?
what is an "NGO"? if the answer is news gathering organization, i will probably want to vomit.
sorry but what i see about b'tselem does not agree with what you are claiming. their donor list didn't look particularly anti-israel and their statement of mission seems pretty righteous and straightforward.
what constitutes a reliable news source in the middle east to you? since avrum natan retired there seems to be a vacuum under the heading of "non-partisan" news reporting from the region
so i am uninformed on an obscure piece of alphabet soup, BFD
you on the other hand have not given me anything of substance to back up your opinion of b'tselem. until you do, their mission statement and donor list do not support your claims.
while we're at it, would you care to give me a list of news organizations you trust to provide unbiased objective reporting on events in the region? i daresay you will be hard pressed to name one that reports on rather than tries to influence the news.
you gave nothing to support your claim. saying something is just so does not make it just so especially when it comes from the console of someone who is clearly biased.
the only thing you are succeeding at demolishing is my idea that there is some hope for the jews to regain grace and fulfill the covenant of the doctrine of love. so long as they refuse to recognize the rights of others and insist on winning a shooting war, the whole world loses.
and you are reverting to name calling instead of showing your evidence. just because you say something is true does not make it true. show your evidence otherwise all you've given me is empty claims.
and you are reverting to name calling instead of showing your evidence. just because you say something is true does not make it true. show your evidence otherwise all you've given me is empty claims.
You have embarrassed yourself in not even being familiar with the term NGO, in attempting to pass yourself off as knowledgeable about...NGOs.
You're either stupid or ignorant...or, both.
