Islam

[Diuretic]

Congratulations, I've been posting about Islam for almost 3 years now that that is the studiest reply I've gotten so far.

I'm an atheist, so I'm going to pull out the old "extraordianary claims require extraordinary proof" argument and ask you to please explain what your statement "The West as we know it wouldn't be here were it not for Islam" means.

Other than a lot of dead people.

It's difficult to be precise - I'm not an expert in the area is one reason, the other reason is that I have to wield a rather broad brush and I'll miss spots (ie I will be proven wrong on specifics. But, broadly speaking, the learning of the ancients was destroyed by the barbarian invasion (it wasn't totally destroyed and the barbarians themselves adopted some of the Greek learning but that's what I mean by details) and the Moorish Islamic scholars in particular preserved the learning of the ancient Greeks and extended it. Later it was the Scholastics such as St Thomas Aquinas who rediscovered Plato and Aristotle from the Moorish scholars. Aristotle in particular is so important to our society. That's what I meant.

 

[Diuretic]

I guess what "enquiring minds wanna know is" why is it whenever I hear this argument, it is always followed by tales of a culture that may have at one time been trend-setting, but has been stuck in that same "trend" since the 7th century?

What Islam was when we were young-n-dumb savages and what Islam still is while we have surpassed it by centuries have two VERY different applications.

In short, what Islam was doesn't mean squat today. What Islam IS, does.

Gunny, I have no truck with Islam. I have no time for religion at all. To me it's unnecessary supersitition. Islam is just another superstitition to me. That's why I piss myself laughing when I read/hear of religious nutcases babbling about "Islamic education". Memorising huge swathes of holy texts ain't going to get my appendix taken out without killing me. I don't want a witch doctor looking after me, I want someone of science.

Islam has a crisis on its hands, it's predominantly a very conservative religion, the liberal wing of Islam is pretty weak. But it's that liberal wing that is more inclined to science, to modernism. Unfortunately religion is a great tool to use on supersititious people, it's very powerful. All a politician needs to do is invoke god and that's it - argument over. And that goes for all religions, not just Islam.

My preferred position is to keep religion out of public life and leave it in private life.

 

[nt250]

Gunny, I have no truck with Islam. I have no time for religion at all. To me it's unnecessary supersitition. Islam is just another superstitition to me. That's why I piss myself laughing when I read/hear of religious nutcases babbling about "Islamic education". Memorising huge swathes of holy texts ain't going to get my appendix taken out without killing me. I don't want a witch doctor looking after me, I want someone of science.

Islam has a crisis on its hands, it's predominantly a very conservative religion, the liberal wing of Islam is pretty weak. But it's that liberal wing that is more inclined to science, to modernism. Unfortunately religion is a great tool to use on supersititious people, it's very powerful. All a politician needs to do is invoke god and that's it - argument over. And that goes for all religions, not just Islam.

My preferred position is to keep religion out of public life and leave it in private life.

Islam isn't like the other major religions. That's common misperception that a lot of people have and it's totally false.

While you didn't say so in so many words, your post is basically along the lines of "Islam needs a reformation". That's a very common theory that many people have, and I've read it many times in the three years I've been reading up on Islam and have been posting about Islam.

Let me make something clear: I am not an expert on Islam. I've simply read enough of the Koran and Hadiths to know that Islam is the biggest fraud ever perpetrated on the world. It is a philosophy and a way of life that was invented by a man who understood human nature and it appeals to the basest aspects of human nature. That's what makes it so attractive to men.

There is not a single rule a Muslim man has to follow if he doesn't want to. Not one.

It's the only major religion that you can join simply by saying you're a Muslim. All you have to do to become a Muslim is to say "there is only one God and Muhammed was his Messenger". That's it. You're a Muslim.

Islam cannot undergo a reformation because you can not reform something that is perfect. Muslims believe that the Koran is the literal word of God and a perfect document. And it's not just the "extremists", or the "fundamentalists" who believe that. It's what all Muslims believe. Go to any pro-Islam website and they all take pride in the fact that the Koran is the only holy text that has never been touched by the hand of man. The Koran is exactly how it was when it was first revealed to Muhammed. It has never been changed and it never can be changed. It's God's word. Literally.

Now the Hadiths? That's another story. What makes a Shiite a Shiite and a Sunni a Sunni depends pretty much on which Hadiths they consider valid. There's a lot more to it than that, but that's a close enough description. There are many contradictions in the Koran itself, but the Hadiths are the real scam.

I call them strings, and they all go something like this:

Muhammed (PBUH) said that stealing is wrong.

Abdul witnessed that the Messenger said stealing is wrong and no Believer should ever steal.

Ahmed reported that stealing is wrong, but Believers who are hungry aren't really stealing.


I made that up, but it's pretty much how they all go. A statement is made, then there are 5 or 6 statements after it that give any Muslim an "out".

There is not a single rule a Muslim man has to follow if he doesn't want to. Even 4 of the 5 Pillars have exceptions to them. The only one that doesn't is the one that makes a Muslim a Muslim and they only have to say that once.

Islam is not at all like other religions.

 

[nt250]

Well you know I am. I didn't even know you were here. I might have to pop in more than once every three weeks now.

I followed Roomy here. But he seems to have abandonded Nytram's and this board.

The asshole is probably over at The Soapbox now.


I really wish I trusted the phone company more. I'd get DSL. But it's not worth it. DSL apparently sucks and they'd just ban me again anyway.

I would really love to rip Thor a new one though, it'd be worth it just for that.

 

[nt250]

Post your essays, I promise they will go down well here. You soft twat.:duh3:

Where the hell have you been?

 

[nt250]

I have never left you daft cow:huh: I love you girl, I would never leave you dangling:69: You know it's true.:huh:

Yeah, I just figured out that you're Loopy. Stop doing that will you? I'm about as addicted to message boards as anybody but I absolutely refuse to take notes.

So quit changing your name.

What board were you banned from for a week? It wasn't this one was it?

 

[nt250]

I have DSL and it's wonderful. I'm not sure how it's set up, but the IP changes every single time I connect. Maybe that's why I've never been deleted at the suckbox. Every day they record me as a new viewer, and can bill their advertisers accordingly.

I've heard horror stories about it. And that's from other employee's.

FiOS is the new thing. I have no idea what that is, but it's going to replace DSL.

I am such a dinosaur. All this new stuff is so far over my head I can't even think about it. I'm still mired in the old MF wink world.

The whole world is using iPods and I'm still using 8 track tapes.