Is Wall Street America's One Common Enemy That Unites the Left and Right?

[Toro]

I smell the stink of fear, guy.

I don't want to take anything from you earned fairly. But clearly, if people were manipulating the market and breaking the law, they should go to jail. And if the laws aren't strong enough, we need stronger laws, although my opinion is still the problem was lax enforcement.

But, hey, let's give a special prosecutor an unlimited budget and a grand jury of 12 guys who lost their homes, and lets see how fair you fly, man.

You want a kangaroo court. Shorting is neither illegal nor wrong. Get over it. Capitalism made America great. Start believing in it.

 

[JoeB131]

Really? Where is the law that says offshoring sends you to prison?

You do not understand capitalism. You do not believe in capitalism. Ergo, you are not a conservative.

Again, you assume I want to work on legal niceties.

It was "legal" for the Nazis to gas the Jews, but I'm not the least bit sorry they all got hung at Nuremburg...

You want a kangaroo court. Shorting is neither illegal nor wrong. Get over it. Capitalism made America great. Start believing in it.

When I was a young man, I swore an oath to defend America from all enemies, foreign and domestic. I did not swear an oath to Wall Street or Capitalism.

YOu guys stepped in it. Time for someone to pay.

 

[Toro]

Really? Where is the law that says offshoring sends you to prison?

You do not understand capitalism. You do not believe in capitalism. Ergo, you are not a conservative.

Again, you assume I want to work on legal niceties.

It was "legal" for the Nazis to gas the Jews, but I'm not the least bit sorry they all got hung at Nuremburg...

You sound like a communist.

You want a kangaroo court. Shorting is neither illegal nor wrong. Get over it. Capitalism made America great. Start believing in it.

When I was a young man, I swore an oath to defend America from all enemies, foreign and domestic. I did not swear an oath to Wall Street or Capitalism.

YOu guys stepped in it. Time for someone to pay.

Funny, I hear conservatives say the same thing about communists. Yet, here you are, sounding like a communist. How ironic.

BTW, your statement in the OP is an epic failure, given that the majority of voters disagree with you.

 

[JoeB131]

Sorry, guy a 60-40 split on a right win message board with a dishonest question is not doin' too bad.

So you think old Herman Goering got a raw deal, eh? interesting.

 

[Valerie]

DC is the enemy.

BUt DC would not have the power it has if not for Wall Street buying politicians of both parties.

So Wall Street got it's bailouts, to the rage of the TEA Party, and they didn't produce any jobs, to the rage of OWS.

See the problem there. It's a rigged game and we are all the suckers.



And people like Toro live in mortal fear the rest of us might figure it out.

Individuals actors operating within legal bounds do not bear the burden of responsibility for market conditions having been enabled by Government deregulation. The functions of the market itself are not personal and your attempt to place blame on certain individuals who work within the financial system is ridiculous...The conditions for real estate market failure were ripe not because of individual workers within various disconnected segments of the market, but because of the legal bounds under which they were all operating on account of failed Government leadership in proper market regulation...Smart investors on Wall Street saw the writing on the wall and made a profit for their clients by betting against the real estate market. "Shorting the market" is nothing personal, it is merely capitalizing on what the market provides.


We should also remember that no one forced individual home buyers to sign mortgage loan agreements they could not honor...IOW people who did not fail to pay their mortgages did not lose their homes, it's called personal responsibility...Banks had been practically giving away money for a decade at historically low interest rates, and Americans pounced on the real estate market which artificially inflated market prices.


Many (too many) did not bother to understand the market they were buying into, they only knew the vast amounts of money the bank would lend them suddenly meant they could afford a very expensive home at a very low interest rate...But then too many people failed to honor their mortgage agreements WHY? They either lost their job and could no longer make the payments, failed to understand that their interest rate agreement was adjustable, or they squatted and legally robbed their mortgage lender...None of which is even remotely the fault of a Wall Street investor who had the insight to bet against REITs in that environment...

 

[Valerie]

What do you imagine Toro had to do with the financial crises?

He came on here and said he made a bunch of money betting against real estate.

If you want me to clarify, I was shorting REITs, not housing.

You're an ignorant moron. Do you know why? You think that because someone who borrows and sells then buys it back caused this. That makes you a fool.

Housing prices didn't collapse because investors were shorting. Housing prices collapsed because they were in a bubble, interest rates were high and the mortgage market was rotten. This had nothing to do with people who had the foresight to see it for what it was and - God forbid - tried to better their clients and families from it.

I call you a whiny socialist because you whine that people didn't take losses like you did. Instead, you wish violence on those who had the foresight to profit from it. God forbid if anyone should make money during bad times. Instead, everyone should suffer. And you call yourself a conservative. Even the RINOs think you're a RINO.

You are grossly ignorant about how markets work. I hardly expect the average person to have as good a grasp of this as professionals, but I don't expect "conservatives" to wallow in petty resentment, envy and jealousy of the success of others either.

And for the record, most of Wall Street suffered during the Financial Crisis, but I doubt this fact will mitigate your self-pitying whine-fest.

^^^ This

 

[Trajan]

No, the real problem isn't the enforcement. The Financial Crisis didn't happen because laws weren't enforced. Sorry.

no they didn't toro I agree, they, the Big They, government, over time abrogated/threw out here to fore time tested sensible laws and risk mechanisms.

in my book, thats worse than breaking them, because they with forethought, lead us down this path, they are greedy and stupid. and, many of them walked away or are still in office, or were ala Franklin Raines, allowed to plead and still keep tens of millions in dollars they made off of us, because they were politically connected/protected.

IMHO the Wall Street Casino needs to change into the wall Street Investors Club.
1. prohibit short-sales
2. prohibit derivatives
3. prohibit "flash trades" (computer trading)
4. tax every transaction (we want long term investments)
5. go after off-shore tax cheats
6. bring back Glass-Stegall

3, 5 and 6 yes, the others, no. not imho.

 

[Contumacious]

The American right sold its soul to big corporations. And really, so did the American left, for that matter. .

OK Vern, a few historical facts are necessary

In the late 1800 Congress USURPED the authority to regulate the economy and American businesses.

NO SUCH AUTHORITY WAS EVER CONSTITUTIONALLY CONFERRED - THE FUCKING BASTARDS MERELY CONCLUDED THAT IT WOULD BE COOL TO REGULATE BUSINESSES.

The 16th Amendment was sold to the populace as a soak the rich scam.

So in light of those events American Businesses were COMPELLED TO PENETRATE CONGRESS AND INFLUENCE LEGISLATION OTHERWISE THE CONGRESSCRITTERS WOULD HAVE STEAMROLLED OVER THEM.

Capisce?

.

Riggggght. Go back and read some more Ayn Rand.

The problem is how government regulates business, and how business corrupts government.

Frankly, I want to know that when I put my money in the bank, someone isn't going to run off with it to the Caymans.

The problem is that Congress is NOT SUPPOSED to be regulating businesses.

Reputation is an asset - do your research and find the best bank. Caveat Emptor.

But government is not the answer - in 1935 it declared bankruptcy and stole our gold.

.

 

[Valerie]

As chairman of the board of governors of the Federal Reserve System, Greenspan allowed the markets to run wild without proper supervision, a radical free-market ideology exemplified by a 2005 speech when he said “private regulation generally has proved far better at constraining excessive risk-taking than has government regulation.” He resisted the farsighted recommendation of fellow Fed governor Ned Gramlich that the Fed act to prevent some abuses predatory and risky practices in subprime mortgages, such as mortgages issued without verifying the borrower’s income or ability to repay the mortgage once the introductory rate expired. Greenspan also opposed a voluntary code of conduct for mortgage lenders. Greenspan also led efforts to exempt derivatives legislation from the oversight BY the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, despite the clear threat to the financial system posed by the near-collapse of the hedge fund Long Term Capital Management due partly to disastrous bets on derivatives. He now regrets his deregulatory stance. Testifying before the House Government Oversight Committee on October 23rd he explained that he “made a mistake” and had “found a flaw” in his free market ideology.

How Did This Happen? » Who’s to Blame?

 

[Valerie]

To the delight of many in the banking industry (not everyone, however, was happy), in November of 1999 Congress repealed the GSA [Glass-Steagall Act] with the establishment of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, which eliminated the GSA restrictions against affiliations between commercial and investment banks. Furthermore, the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act allows banking institutions to provide a broader range of services, including underwriting and other dealing activities.

What Was The Glass-Steagall Act?

 

[Katzndogz]

Nothing, absolutely nothing is going to unite the left and the right. The nation is permanently and irrevocably divided.

 

[Valerie]

Reasons for the Act - Commercial Speculation

Commercial banks were accused of being too speculative in the pre-Depression era, not only because they were investing their assets but also because they were buying new issues for resale to the public. Thus, banks became greedy, taking on huge risks in the hope of even bigger rewards. Banking itself became sloppy and objectives became blurred. Unsound loans were issued to companies in which the bank had invested, and clients would be encouraged to invest in those same stocks.

Effects of the Act - Creating Barriers

Senator Carter Glass, a former Treasury secretary and the founder of the U.S. Federal Reserve System, was the primary force behind the GSA. Henry Bascom Steagall was a House of Representatives member and chairman of the House Banking and Currency Committee. Steagall agreed to support the act with Glass after an amendment was added permitting bank deposit insurance (this was the first time it was allowed).

As a collective reaction to one of the worst financial crises at the time, the GSA set up a regulatory firewall between commercial and investment bank activities, both of which were curbed and controlled. Banks were given a year to decide on whether they would specialize in commercial or in investment banking. Only 10% of commercial banks' total income could stem from securities; however, an exception allowed commercial banks to underwrite government-issued bonds. Financial giants at the time such as JP Morgan and Company, which were seen as part of the problem, were directly targeted and forced to cut their services and, hence, a main source of their income. By creating this barrier, the GSA was aiming to prevent the banks' use of deposits in the case of a failed underwriting job.

The GSA, however, was considered harsh by most in the financial community, and it was reported that even Glass himself moved to repeal the GSA shortly after it was passed, claiming it was an overreaction to the crisis.

Building More Walls

Despite the lax implementation of the GSA by the Federal Reserve Board, which is the regulator of U.S. banks, in 1956, Congress made another decision to regulate the banking sector. In an effort to prevent financial conglomerates from amassing too much power, the new act focused on banks involved in the insurance sector. Congress agreed that bearing the high risks undertaken in underwriting insurance is not good banking practice. Thus, as an extension of the Glass-Steagall Act, the Bank Holding Company Act further separated financial activities by creating a wall between insurance and banking. Even though banks could, and can still can, sell insurance and insurance products, underwriting insurance was forbidden.

What Was The Glass-Steagall Act?

The former head of AIG’s London’s office, invested $500 billion in credit default swaps, moving AIG from its traditional position in insurance into a new unregulated business of contracts that effectively insured loans against default without setting aside meaningful reserves against the potential losses. He proceeded to take increasingly bigger bets on how other complex financial market products would fare, more akin to gambling than providing insurance.

In 2007, Cassano boasted, “It is hard for us, without being flippant, to even see a scenario within any kind of realm of reason that would see us losing one dollar in any of those transactions.” He was wrong. Losses from his small, 400-person operation “nearly decimated” a massive insurance company with 177,000 employees and a trillion-dollar balance sheet. Despite the wreckage in his wake, after firing him last March, AIG paid Cassano $1 million a month for consulting services.

How Did This Happen? » Who’s to Blame?

 

[Mr.Nick]

Nothing, absolutely nothing is going to unite the left and the right. The nation is permanently and irrevocably divided.

Most democrat voters rely on their precious government to support them and the others that don't believe its cute that our big government supports the idiots with free money are sick of it...

Democrats should be placed in the stocks one by one in order to pay their debt to society via shame - that or we can just enslave them until they pay back what they owe the public...

 

[JoeB131]

Individuals actors operating within legal bounds do not bear the burden of responsibility for market conditions having been enabled by Government deregulation. The functions of the market itself are not personal and your attempt to place blame on certain individuals who work within the financial system is ridiculous...The conditions for real estate market failure were ripe not because of individual workers within various disconnected segments of the market, but because of the legal bounds under which they were all operating on account of failed Government leadership in proper market regulation...Smart investors on Wall Street saw the writing on the wall and made a profit for their clients by betting against the real estate market. "Shorting the market" is nothing personal, it is merely capitalizing on what the market provides.


We should also remember that no one forced individual home buyers to sign mortgage loan agreements they could not honor...IOW people who did not fail to pay their mortgages did not lose their homes, it's called personal responsibility...Banks had been practically giving away money for a decade at historically low interest rates, and Americans pounced on the real estate market which artificially inflated market prices.

Many (too many) did not bother to understand the market they were buying into, they only knew the vast amounts of money the bank would lend them suddenly meant they could afford a very expensive home at a very low interest rate...But then too many people failed to honor their mortgage agreements WHY? They either lost their job and could no longer make the payments, failed to understand that their interest rate agreement was adjustable, or they squatted and legally robbed their mortgage lender...None of which is even remotely the fault of a Wall Street investor who had the insight to bet against REITs in that environment...

HOrseshit.

You act like the banks weren't the ones pushing for this deregulation to allow them to make riskier loans. That they weren't lobbying the GSE's to back more of their risk. that the banks weren't intentionally pushing people to make loans that they knew damned well they couldn't pay off.

Hells bells, I make 20% less than what I made 5 years ago and my property has lost about 30% of its value. Now, you'd think the banks would stop pestering me with offers to refinance and such. NOPE. You think they'd stop sending me unsolicited credit card offers. NOPE.

The Banks are acting like 2008 never even happened, because they know if it happens again, they'll get bailouts again.

And not a one of them will go to jail for it.

 

[editec]

Nothing, absolutely nothing is going to unite the left and the right. The nation is permanently and irrevocably divided.

For the sake of the MASTERS they'd best hope and pray that continues to be true.

 

[spectrumc01]

Nothing, absolutely nothing is going to unite the left and the right. The nation is permanently and irrevocably divided.

Nothing portrays Christs, Allahs, Yaweh's, Buddah's, or any other religious diety's desires more than all of the American religious groups refusing to get along. You might think that religion isn't a part of this conversation but it is, as most Americans believe in a God of some sort or another. The Fact that they believe and than totally disregard the teachings of such dieties is astounding. Yet they want everyone to belong to their particular brand of religion. Maybe that is how we get the Left and Right to come togather, one religion.

One civil war over religion and than we can get on with it.

 

[Katzndogz]

Nothing, absolutely nothing is going to unite the left and the right. The nation is permanently and irrevocably divided.

Nothing portrays Christs, Allahs, Yaweh's, Buddah's, or any other religious diety's desires more than all of the American religious groups refusing to get along. You might think that religion isn't a part of this conversation but it is, as most Americans believe in a God of some sort or another. The Fact that they believe and than totally disregard the teachings of such dieties is astounding. Yet they want everyone to belong to their particular brand of religion. Maybe that is how we get the Left and Right to come togather, one religion.

One civil war over religion and than we can get on with it.

It has nothing to do with religion. It has to do with political ideology. Over and over again, it comes down, not to religion, but whether the nation and it's people should become more marxist. Even among individual religions the people divide along political lines. The two sides have grown so far apart that there is no longer a point where compromise is possible. This is not a religious divide.

 

[spectrumc01]

Nothing, absolutely nothing is going to unite the left and the right. The nation is permanently and irrevocably divided.

Nothing portrays Christs, Allahs, Yaweh's, Buddah's, or any other religious diety's desires more than all of the American religious groups refusing to get along. You might think that religion isn't a part of this conversation but it is, as most Americans believe in a God of some sort or another. The Fact that they believe and than totally disregard the teachings of such dieties is astounding. Yet they want everyone to belong to their particular brand of religion. Maybe that is how we get the Left and Right to come togather, one religion.

One civil war over religion and than we can get on with it.

It has nothing to do with religion. It has to do with political ideology. Over and over again, it comes down, not to religion, but whether the nation and it's people should become more marxist. Even among individual religions the people divide along political lines. The two sides have grown so far apart that there is no longer a point where compromise is possible. This is not a religious divide.

It most surely is. If people actually believed in and practiced their faith we would not be in this mess, no matter what religion they ascribed to.

 

[Katzndogz]

Nothing portrays Christs, Allahs, Yaweh's, Buddah's, or any other religious diety's desires more than all of the American religious groups refusing to get along. You might think that religion isn't a part of this conversation but it is, as most Americans believe in a God of some sort or another. The Fact that they believe and than totally disregard the teachings of such dieties is astounding. Yet they want everyone to belong to their particular brand of religion. Maybe that is how we get the Left and Right to come togather, one religion.

One civil war over religion and than we can get on with it.

It has nothing to do with religion. It has to do with political ideology. Over and over again, it comes down, not to religion, but whether the nation and it's people should become more marxist. Even among individual religions the people divide along political lines. The two sides have grown so far apart that there is no longer a point where compromise is possible. This is not a religious divide.

It most surely is. If people actually believed in and practiced their faith we would not be in this mess, no matter what religion they ascribed to.

There is no amount of faith that would overcome the natural objection to being robbed. The most faithful isn't going to tolerate marxism. The power of authority to enforcing equality and sharing among those who work and those who refuse failed in the wholly Puritan colonies where religion was certainly not an issue at all.

 

[Chris]

Wall Street destroyed the world economy.

Move your money to a credit union.