Is this a person?

[bobcollum]

Not a mystery. Just not identified.

If that little fertilized couple of cells was the result of a couple of humans' sperm and ovum, then it is a pre-born person.

If it's the zygote of a frog's sperm and another frog's little egg, then it is not a person.

It WILL be a person, IF it is born. Not before. Never before.

Still waiting for you to tell us the source of your definition of "person" - since it certainly isn't the dictionary - rather than just ignoring points you don't want to discuss and blithely asserting that your definition is the correct and accepted one.

Aaannnyy time now . . . but I never hold my breath while waiting for leftists to develop intellectual courage.

^ Everyone is still wrong and stupid. Tough world we live in.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The law gives value to unborn ,its that simple.

The lid has been off since day one.

Answer the bloody question and stop dodging.

This from the broad who gave us "It's legal" when discussing a question of whether something SHOULD be legal. Oh, yeah, YOU should totally be telling other people not to dodge. Hypocrite much?

 

[Cecilie1200]

If the fetus is treated as a person, the woman could be accused of murder if she has a miscarriage. Birth control which expels a fertilised egg from the womb will be illegal.

Care to address this?

They could if that absurdity was a law but its not,she can be charged for willful,abuse ,like taking drugs,but not for a natural occurring miscarriage.

What if she threw herself down some stairs with the intention of killing her fetus? She would be charged with murder. You can't deny it.

You'll excuse me if I'm not in quite the same rush to champion women doing incredibly retarded things that you are. I hope you'll also excuse me if I'm not in quite the same self-hating rush to believe women are all utter morons who need to be protected from themselves that you are.

 

[Cecilie1200]

what am I dodging??

Its you that trys to run in circles here with some real outer space notions.

You are dodging my questions that I have asked. They are simple questions and they show that your opinion is wrong.

what questions,try and narrow it down some??

heres one for you and its won't be hard.


yes or no

Are there laws on state and federal books that protect the unborn?

Its not hard bet you can do it.

How the hell would she know? She's not from this country, and doesn't know jack shit about it, however much she likes to pronounce upon how we should run it.

 

[Cecilie1200]

It WILL be a person, IF it is born. Not before. Never before.

Still waiting for you to tell us the source of your definition of "person" - since it certainly isn't the dictionary - rather than just ignoring points you don't want to discuss and blithely asserting that your definition is the correct and accepted one.

Aaannnyy time now . . . but I never hold my breath while waiting for leftists to develop intellectual courage.

^ Everyone is still wrong and stupid. Tough world we live in.

No, it's a tough world I live in. You appear to be the embodiment of the saying, "Ignorance is bliss."

 

[bobcollum]

^ Takes a lot from ones on-line appearance.

Why would I waste time attempting honest dialogue with you? I see how you operate.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

If one believes a zygote is a ‘person,’ he’s entitled to that belief, and may act upon it in the context of his personal, private life.

He may not, however, compel others to abide that belief through force of law or referendum:

It is a promise of the Constitution that there is a realm of personal liberty which the government may not enter.

[T]he Constitution places limits on a State's right to interfere with a person's most basic decisions about family and parenthood[.]

Our law affords constitutional protection to personal decisions relating to marriage, procreation, contraception, family relationships, child rearing, and education.

These matters, involving the most intimate and personal choices a person may make in a lifetime, choices central to personal dignity and autonomy, are central to the liberty protected by the Fourteenth Amendment.

Planned Parenthood of Southeastern Pa. v. Casey, 505 U.S. 833 (1992)

 

[Noomi]

Wrong they do you can be charged for killing a fetus.

Because the woman intended to keep the baby. If you kill a fetus inside a woman, you take away her right to choose, and that is why you are charged.

That is not my point though - my point is that if you treat a fetus as a person, you violate the rights of women, and treat her like a criminal for something like a miscarriage!

Are lifers really so blind they can't see that?

Are leftists really so stupid that they CAN see women being charged with a crime because their children develop medical problems? Or are you just cravenly hiding behind a false analogy, like always? As stupid as I happen to think you are, even I don't believe you're quite so mentally-challenged as to believe that the law will be unable to draw the same distinction between abortion and miscarriages that it does between a woman who drowns her child in the bathtub, and one whose child dies of cancer.

By the way, are leftists so blind that they can't see the danger to them in defining life solely according to whether or not they are wanted?

Are you too blind to see that passing a law saying a fetus is a person WILL outlaw most forms of birth control?

Unless you are saying it is okay to kill a fetus, you just can't get a doctor to do it.

 

[Noomi]

what questions,try and narrow it down some??

heres one for you and its won't be hard.


yes or no

Are there laws on state and federal books that protect the unborn?

Its not hard bet you can do it.

Read my posts and you will see them.

The law might protect the unborn with its fetal homicide laws, but doesn't relate to abortion - which you want made illegal.

Nice try at a dodge,but weak as water.

The law protects the unborn.the lid is off its that simple,you can try and worm your way around it,but your just making yourself look bad,give it up.

'The law protects the unborn' - you don't get it, do you? If a fetus was a person, and the law protected the unborn, then birth control which expels a fertilised egg from the womb would be illegal because the unborn is protected by law.

Are you being obtuse on purpose?

 

[catzmeow]

People lose their personhood when they lose their sentience. That's why brain death is the official measurement of loss of personhood (death) in the U.S. and brain stem death is the measurement in the UK. People who are in a persistent/permanent vegetative state can also be legally removed from life support by their next of kin. In many cases, the human body may continue to function for days/weeks/months after brain death, but the spark of sentience and cognition that made the person a human being is gone and will not return.

In this sense, a fetus in the first trimester is exactly like a patient in permanent vegetative state. They cannot survive apart from their life support system (the mother), but they lack sentience/awareness/cognition, and thus, personhood.

They are human (genetically), but no more human than an adult human being who has experienced brain death and is being maintained by a respirator and heart pump is human. Their humanity, which would be characterized by sentience and awareness of self, is gone.

 

[amrchaos]

I think she is asking ...where does life begin...or when does he fetus become a person.

If she was asking when does life begin--then there may be a problem.

Is not the sperm and the ovary also alive in some sense? I doubt they are just dead particles that are sprayed together to form life. Even if that was the case, then could not life be produced and is produced by either male or female, but it takes both sexes to produce a human?

Lots of problematic questions here. I wonder who among the theologians asked such questions--because it suggest something very counter to most religious thought.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I think she is asking ...where does life begin...or when does he fetus become a person.

If she was asking when does life begin--then there may be a problem.

Is not the sperm and the ovary also alive in some sense? I doubt they are just dead particles that are sprayed together to form life. Even if that was the case, then could not life be produced and is produced by either male or female, but it takes both sexes to produce a human?

Lots of problematic questions here. I wonder who among the theologians asked such questions--because it suggest something very counter to most religious thought.

Okay, first of all, Einstein, it's ovum, not ovary. The ovary would be the organ (there are two of them in a normal, healthy female) which houses the ova, or eggs. It does not help anyone believe that you're going to have something intelligent to say when you can't even identify the items you're talking about.

Second, I know for a flat fact that you have had explained to you, uncountable times, the difference between living parts of an organism and a living organism itself. Therefore, you must know that it didn't sound clever the first time you ignorantly conflated the two for your arguments, and that it sounds positively asinine for you to continue repeating it as though you're saying something now that it's been repeatedly explained to you. Not knowing before you ever mentioned it just makes you massively, woefully, laughably uneducated. Knowing and pretending you don't makes you look obtuse, dishonest, and slavishly, cultishly in service of an agenda that matters more to you than the truth.

There is nothing "problematic" in your deliberately idiotic post for theologians or anyone else but you, and it would only be problematic if you had the decency, the intellectual honesty, and the self-respect to care what an complete tool you are.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Guess how many opinions there are on this subject?!?





Just guess!!






Come ON!!!






It's EASY!






World Population Clock: 7 Billion People - Worldometers

 

[AVG-JOE]

And EVERYONE thinks they're right.


*sigh*

 

[AVG-JOE]

"God is great..."[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKpQRjj_WbU]Billy Currington - People Are Crazy - YouTube[/ame]

 

[BreezeWood]

I think she is asking ...where does life begin...or when does he fetus become a person.

If she was asking when does life begin--then there may be a problem.

Is not the sperm and the ovary also alive in some sense? I doubt they are just dead particles that are sprayed together to form life. Even if that was the case, then could not life be produced and is produced by either male or female, but it takes both sexes to produce a human?

Lots of problematic questions here. I wonder who among the theologians asked such questions--because it suggest something very counter to most religious thought.

the photo is one step after the collision ... and successful impact.

it says everything about the true religion, whoever is discussing it.

 

[Noomi]

People lose their personhood when they lose their sentience. That's why brain death is the official measurement of loss of personhood (death) in the U.S. and brain stem death is the measurement in the UK. People who are in a persistent/permanent vegetative state can also be legally removed from life support by their next of kin. In many cases, the human body may continue to function for days/weeks/months after brain death, but the spark of sentience and cognition that made the person a human being is gone and will not return.

In this sense, a fetus in the first trimester is exactly like a patient in permanent vegetative state. They cannot survive apart from their life support system (the mother), but they lack sentience/awareness/cognition, and thus, personhood.

They are human (genetically), but no more human than an adult human being who has experienced brain death and is being maintained by a respirator and heart pump is human. Their humanity, which would be characterized by sentience and awareness of self, is gone.

No, you are wrong! You have it all backwards! The fetus must be sentient because then how could it be screaming in pain in the Silent Scream video? It is obvious that even a six week old embryo feels pain and has feelings about whether it wants to exist or not!

Next thing we know science will discover that a fertilised egg can feel pain!!!

/end mockery

 

[theHawk]

Laboratory Tour

Scientifically speaking at that point it has its own unique human DNA.

And I thought libs were all about science and facts.

 

[Care4all]

It is a 'person in the making', a 'baby to be' if it implants in the mother's uterus, and the mother becomes 'pregnant', otherwise it is just 2 split cells, that will go nowhere and die off on its own. At the point of the split, fertilization has been accomplished though, so scientifically this is the first 2 cells, of a new individual, of a new person to be...

It is the very beginning of a new person to be...could this new individual survive on its own, without the mother...no. (unless of course you are talking about a frozen embryo...it is still technically alive, only frozen)

Has this new 'person to be' reached 'person-hood' with all protections and tax write offs a born baby would have...no, no it hasn't....imho and with the Law of the land.....

But technically and scientifically it has been proven, that the new growing and splitting cells, do have their own individual identity...their own DNA, not mom's DNA, or Dad's DNA, but their OWN DNA...so they are individuals at that point, that would die without the mother to be, being host.

So, you've got the people who believe that the Baby to Be has rights and individualism from conception,

And others who believe the Baby to Be has no rights until they are sentient, and can feel pain before that.... the mother's rights usurp the baby's,

Plus others who believe the mother's rights out weighs the baby's rights, until the baby can have a chance of surviving on their own....outside of the womb...

Did I miss a side?

 

[BreezeWood]

so what is the point of the Thread ...