Is there a "right" to be homeless and live on the sidewalk?

[Seymour Flops]

I'm not talking about whether it's good or bad for people to live like that, or what can be done about it. Well, not as the main point, anyway.

Is there a right to use public tax-funded sidewalks as a campground, no matter how dirty, unsightly, and dangerous the "camping equipment" may be? I'm talking about a person pushing a grocery cart full of dirty and often wet belongings, or carrying a trashbag full of stuff and stopping to rest whenevery they get tired, meanwhile often asking passers-by for money, or otherwise engaging them.

Would any sane and non-addicted person choose to live like that? If there is no way for a peson to exercise a choice, can they really be said to have a "right to choose?"

A humane society's solution for these obviously mentally ill, and/or addicted people is to take them off the sidewalks and bring them to where they can get help. If they refuse the help, I can see a libertarian case for not forcing them. But why bring them back to dangerous city streets that they will both make more dangerous and be endangered on? Take them to the woods near a water source and drop them off.

 

[pknopp]

The court has routinely ruled that asking for money is protected speech so there is that.

One can certainly be "homeless". On sidewalks is more complicated. Obviously one wouldn't be permitted to camp in front of a businesses door but other than that, right or not, good luck.

 

[eagle1462010]

Camping in front of stores would hurt business and id say no there. But after that idk.

Its a problem that is getting worse due to inflation.

 

[progressive hunter]

I'm not talking about whether it's good or bad for people to live like that, or what can be done about it. Well, not as the main point, anyway.

Is there a right to use public tax-funded sidewalks as a campground, no matter how dirty, unsightly, and dangerous the "camping equipment" may be? I'm talking about a person pushing a grocery cart full of dirty and often wet belongings, or carrying a trashbag full of stuff and stopping to rest whenevery they get tired, meanwhile often asking passers-by for money, or otherwise engaging them.

Would any sane and non-addicted person choose to live like that? If there is no way for a peson to exercise a choice, can they really be said to have a "right to choose?"

A humane society's solution for these obviously mentally ill, and/or addicted people is to take them off the sidewalks and bring them to where they can get help. If they refuse the help, I can see a libertarian case for not forcing them. But why bring them back to dangerous city streets that they will both make more dangerous and be endangered on? Take them to the woods near a water source and drop them off.

as with all rights,,

they end when they interfere with someone elses rights,,

you cant set up residence on a public area because you would be taking away everyone elses rights to that public area,,

loitering is against the law because by remaining in one place for to long also interferes with someone elses right to be there,,

as for the tent cities,,

I have zoning, codes, rules and laws that dictate what type of housing I am allowed to live in so they should be held to the same standard

 

[jotathought]

I'm not talking about whether it's good or bad for people to live like that, or what can be done about it. Well, not as the main point, anyway.

Is there a right to use public tax-funded sidewalks as a campground, no matter how dirty, unsightly, and dangerous the "camping equipment" may be? I'm talking about a person pushing a grocery cart full of dirty and often wet belongings, or carrying a trashbag full of stuff and stopping to rest whenevery they get tired, meanwhile often asking passers-by for money, or otherwise engaging them.

Would any sane and non-addicted person choose to live like that? If there is no way for a peson to exercise a choice, can they really be said to have a "right to choose?"

A humane society's solution for these obviously mentally ill, and/or addicted people is to take them off the sidewalks and bring them to where they can get help. If they refuse the help, I can see a libertarian case for not forcing them. But why bring them back to dangerous city streets that they will both make more dangerous and be endangered on? Take them to the woods near a water source and drop them off.

My problem with homeless people is it is often intertwined with drug usage, and creates sanitary conditions. Outcomes that introduce health / sanitary conditions, crime for drug addicts to fuel their addiction and an undesirable place to visit, with trash, tents/cardboard boxes and drug paraphernalia.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Why would any sane non addicted person choose to live like that? It's a question I have asked myself every day of my life. I did ask my parents. Homelessness represented perfect freedom. No rent, no utilities. No job meant no brown nosing the boss. No going along to get along. No having to be anywhere. Do what you want, go where you want when you want.

 

[progressive hunter]

Why would any sane non addicted person choose to live like that? It's a question I have asked myself every day of my life. I did ask my parents. Homelessness represented perfect freedom. No rent, no utilities. No job meant no brown nosing the boss. No going along to get along. No having to be anywhere. Do what you want, go where you want when you want.

in a lot of cases choice isnt a choice,,
its all they have left,,

 

[White 6]

I'm not talking about whether it's good or bad for people to live like that, or what can be done about it. Well, not as the main point, anyway.

Is there a right to use public tax-funded sidewalks as a campground, no matter how dirty, unsightly, and dangerous the "camping equipment" may be? I'm talking about a person pushing a grocery cart full of dirty and often wet belongings, or carrying a trashbag full of stuff and stopping to rest whenevery they get tired, meanwhile often asking passers-by for money, or otherwise engaging them.

Would any sane and non-addicted person choose to live like that? If there is no way for a peson to exercise a choice, can they really be said to have a "right to choose?"

A humane society's solution for these obviously mentally ill, and/or addicted people is to take them off the sidewalks and bring them to where they can get help. If they refuse the help, I can see a libertarian case for not forcing them. But why bring them back to dangerous city streets that they will both make more dangerous and be endangered on? Take them to the woods near a water source and drop them off.

No, they do not have a right to camp, sleep, shit, fuck, do drugs and prostitution on the public sidewalks, public parks or private owned lots not owned by the camping homeless.

 

[Crepitus]

I'm not talking about whether it's good or bad for people to live like that, or what can be done about it. Well, not as the main point, anyway.

Is there a right to use public tax-funded sidewalks as a campground, no matter how dirty, unsightly, and dangerous the "camping equipment" may be? I'm talking about a person pushing a grocery cart full of dirty and often wet belongings, or carrying a trashbag full of stuff and stopping to rest whenevery they get tired, meanwhile often asking passers-by for money, or otherwise engaging them.

Would any sane and non-addicted person choose to live like that? If there is no way for a peson to exercise a choice, can they really be said to have a "right to choose?"

A humane society's solution for these obviously mentally ill, and/or addicted people is to take them off the sidewalks and bring them to where they can get help. If they refuse the help, I can see a libertarian case for not forcing them. But why bring them back to dangerous city streets that they will both make more dangerous and be endangered on? Take them to the woods near a water source and drop them off.

Do you have a right to life?

 

[EvilCat Breath]

in a lot of cases choice isnt a choice,,
its all they have left,,

So far, I have run across less than half a dozen. That's in Los Angeles where even doctor's have roommates. Most of the time it is the drug addicted and or insane.

 

[progressive hunter]

Do you have a right to life?

your premise is a lie,,

try speaking on the topic instead of the pro life stuff,,

over running public areas with tents and everything that goes with it isnt a right,,

 

[progressive hunter]

So far, I have run across less than half a dozen. That's in Los Angeles where even doctor's have roommates. Most of the time it is the drug addicted and or insane.

as I said,, regardless of what got them there I bet they dont want to be there and their choices had all run out,,

most are self inflicted,, but there are the ones at the end of their road,,

think about the old man with no kids or relatives and not able to work at a level that allows for a decent home of any size..

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Do you have a right to life?

Will they die unless they can shit and fuck in public?

 

[fncceo]

Is there a right to use public tax-funded sidewalks as a campground, no matter how dirty, unsightly, and dangerous the "camping equipment" may be?

The issue is... where do you move these people on to?

They are, to the largest extent, so drug or alcohol addled that they cannot abide by even the most basic rules of a homeless shelter such as don't assault, steal from, or damage properly of the shelter or other residents.

There are no longer vagrancy laws. It's next to impossible to put someone into an involuntary psychiatric stay for more than a few days, and they aren't committing serious enough crimes to deserve any lengthy jail time.

We have created a permissive system that no only allows the homeless to be in our public spaces, it encourages them to do so.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

as I said,, regardless of what got them there I bet they dont want to be there and their choices had all run out,,

most are self inflicted,, but there are the ones at the endi of their road,,

think about the old man with no kids or relatives and not able to work at a level that allows for a decent home of any size..

No. They want to be there. Or at least where they are is better than anyplace else.

I do think about the old man with no relatives. The state just threw him out of state housing to give his bed to a 22 year old invader who raped the girl down the street.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Downtown Salt Lake City has had a problem for more than a decade.

 

[progressive hunter]

The issue is... where do you move these people on to?

They are, to the largest extent, so drug or alcohol addled that they cannot abide by even the most basic rules of a homeless shelter such as don't assault, steal from, or damage properly of the shelter or other residents.

There are no longer vagrancy laws. It's next to impossible to put someone into an involuntary psychiatric stay for more than a few days, and they aren't committing serious enough crimes to deserve any lengthy jail time.

We have created a permissive system that no only allows the homeless to be in our public spaces, it encourages them to do so.

thats the million dollar question,,
it would take a city by city effort,, what works in one place may not work in another,,

we know acting like they arent there isnt working,,

college towns can use the liberal students to go out and help them,,

 

[progressive hunter]

No. They want to be there. Or at least where they are is better than anyplace else.

I do think about the old man with no relatives. The state just threw him out of state housing to give his bed to a 22 year old invader who raped the girl down the street.

who are they??

we are talking about possibly over a million people with a million different reasons,,

 

[EvilCat Breath]

who are they??

we are talking about possibly over a million people with a million different reasons,,

All sharing in the commonality of homelessness. That's who they are.

 

[progressive hunter]

All sharing in the commonality of homelessness. That's who they are.

I thought we were talking about why they are homeless,,

unless youve talked to every single one you couldnt know why all of them are homeless,,