Is the Quran Gods words?

[Dajjal]

I am bouncing my thread for Muslim75

 

[Dajjal]

2.19. At the sound of every thunderclap for fear of death. And Allah encompasses the unbelievers.
2.40. Fear Allah, and know that Allah is with the cautious.
2.197. Fear Allah and know that he is firm in punishment.
2.203. Fear Allah and know that you shall be assembled unto him.
2.223. Fear Allah and know that you shall meet him.
2.231. Fear Allah and know that he has knowledge of everything.
2.278. Believers,fear Allah.
2.282. Fear the day when you shall return to Allah.
2.282. Fear Allah.
3.5 Fear Allah and Obey.
3.76. Fear Allah, Allah loves the cautious.
3.102. Believers, fear Allah as he should be feared and do not die. Except as a Muslim.

That is just a start on the 266 listings of the word fear in the Koran.
A book designed to scare silly Arabs into fighting Muhammad's battles for him.

 

[September]

Seriously dude, you've been complaining on this board about Islam
since 2012 or earlier? Daaayum. I don't even wanna know why. Life is so much better when you spend less time hatin' on the things that get to you. Tis so much better to shift your focus towards things that are far more beautiful to you.

"Your focus determines your reality..."

Speakin' of 2012...

I loved 2012. It was an incredibly fun and magickal year for me. Lots of partyin', hangin with friends, and lots of time spent out in the desert... spirit questin', hiking, climbing and bouldering, repelling and bellaying, cliff jumping, just training out in Nature and lovin' every moment of it. All that end of the world hype was also a great catalyst for epic artwork and rituals. Fucking 2012 man... what an incredible year.

Vegas and Phoenix <3

​

 

[amrchaos]

Hi hjmick, I did not say I believed in the bible, I said the quran is largely copied from it.

Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all have common roots.

So Judaism led to Christianity, and whatever value those religions may have is a matter of debate. But my point is that Muhammad simple stole the earlier texts, and claimed himself a messenger.

So, attaching the NT to an editted Jewish text is not theft?


I call that an obvious form of theft--the OT was not created for gentiles nor was it intended to be given to gentiles.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

I say it is not, for the following reasons.

1. The quran is filled with references to the bible and other texts, and I say is is copied from these sources, and not an original work.

2. The quran is full of terrible quotes about what God will do to unbelievers in Muhammad and the day of judgement, and that he will burn them in hellfire for all eternity, and I say this is all lies which degrade God, and make him a monster. It was written to scare people into obeying Muhammad, and it does not come from God.

Does anyone want to dispute my opinions?

Since I had the tab open already sure, I'll dispute it. Or at least that it's Qur'an that makes God look like a monster.

Not to give up hating the enticer to idolatry (Deut. 13:9)
To destroy idolatry and its appurtenances (Deut. 12:2-3)
Not to save the enticer from capital punishment, but to stand by at his execution (Deut. 13:9)
Not to settle idolaters in our land (Ex. 23:33)
To slay the inhabitants of a city that has become idolatrous and burn that city (Deut. 13:16-17)
Not to rebuild a city that has been led astray to idolatry (Deut. 13:17)

Not to intermarry with gentiles (Deut. 7:3)

That the Court shall pass sentence of death by strangulation (Lev. 20:10)
That the Court shall pass sentence of death by burning with fire (Lev. 20:14)
That the Court shall pass sentence of death by stoning (Deut. 22:24)
To hang the dead body of one who has incurred that penalty (Deut. 21:22)
To adjudge a thief to pay compensation or (in certain cases) suffer death (Ex. 21:16; Ex. 21:37; Ex. 22:1)
To punish the wicked by the infliction of stripes (Deut. 25:2)


To condemn Islam for doing things they in fact COPIED from Judaism is hypocritical in the EXTREME.

 

[Dajjal]

I say it is not, for the following reasons.

1. The quran is filled with references to the bible and other texts, and I say is is copied from these sources, and not an original work.

2. The quran is full of terrible quotes about what God will do to unbelievers in Muhammad and the day of judgement, and that he will burn them in hellfire for all eternity, and I say this is all lies which degrade God, and make him a monster. It was written to scare people into obeying Muhammad, and it does not come from God.

Does anyone want to dispute my opinions?

Since I had the tab open already sure, I'll dispute it. Or at least that it's Qur'an that makes God look like a monster.

Not to give up hating the enticer to idolatry (Deut. 13:9)
To destroy idolatry and its appurtenances (Deut. 12:2-3)
Not to save the enticer from capital punishment, but to stand by at his execution (Deut. 13:9)
Not to settle idolaters in our land (Ex. 23:33)
To slay the inhabitants of a city that has become idolatrous and burn that city (Deut. 13:16-17)
Not to rebuild a city that has been led astray to idolatry (Deut. 13:17)

Not to intermarry with gentiles (Deut. 7:3)

That the Court shall pass sentence of death by strangulation (Lev. 20:10)
That the Court shall pass sentence of death by burning with fire (Lev. 20:14)
That the Court shall pass sentence of death by stoning (Deut. 22:24)
To hang the dead body of one who has incurred that penalty (Deut. 21:22)
To adjudge a thief to pay compensation or (in certain cases) suffer death (Ex. 21:16; Ex. 21:37; Ex. 22:1)
To punish the wicked by the infliction of stripes (Deut. 25:2)


To condemn Islam for doing things they in fact COPIED from Judaism is hypocritical in the EXTREME.

But all that aside, I think you agree with me that the Quran is not the word of God.

 

[PratchettFan]

I say it is not, for the following reasons.

1. The quran is filled with references to the bible and other texts, and I say is is copied from these sources, and not an original work.

2. The quran is full of terrible quotes about what God will do to unbelievers in Muhammad and the day of judgement, and that he will burn them in hellfire for all eternity, and I say this is all lies which degrade God, and make him a monster. It was written to scare people into obeying Muhammad, and it does not come from God.

Does anyone want to dispute my opinions?

Since I had the tab open already sure, I'll dispute it. Or at least that it's Qur'an that makes God look like a monster.

Not to give up hating the enticer to idolatry (Deut. 13:9)
To destroy idolatry and its appurtenances (Deut. 12:2-3)
Not to save the enticer from capital punishment, but to stand by at his execution (Deut. 13:9)
Not to settle idolaters in our land (Ex. 23:33)
To slay the inhabitants of a city that has become idolatrous and burn that city (Deut. 13:16-17)
Not to rebuild a city that has been led astray to idolatry (Deut. 13:17)

Not to intermarry with gentiles (Deut. 7:3)

That the Court shall pass sentence of death by strangulation (Lev. 20:10)
That the Court shall pass sentence of death by burning with fire (Lev. 20:14)
That the Court shall pass sentence of death by stoning (Deut. 22:24)
To hang the dead body of one who has incurred that penalty (Deut. 21:22)
To adjudge a thief to pay compensation or (in certain cases) suffer death (Ex. 21:16; Ex. 21:37; Ex. 22:1)
To punish the wicked by the infliction of stripes (Deut. 25:2)


To condemn Islam for doing things they in fact COPIED from Judaism is hypocritical in the EXTREME.

But all that aside, I think you agree with me that the Quran is not the word of God.

No book is the word of God. They are all, without exception, the word of man.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

I say it is not, for the following reasons.

1. The quran is filled with references to the bible and other texts, and I say is is copied from these sources, and not an original work.

2. The quran is full of terrible quotes about what God will do to unbelievers in Muhammad and the day of judgement, and that he will burn them in hellfire for all eternity, and I say this is all lies which degrade God, and make him a monster. It was written to scare people into obeying Muhammad, and it does not come from God.

Does anyone want to dispute my opinions?

Since I had the tab open already sure, I'll dispute it. Or at least that it's Qur'an that makes God look like a monster.

Not to give up hating the enticer to idolatry (Deut. 13:9)
To destroy idolatry and its appurtenances (Deut. 12:2-3)
Not to save the enticer from capital punishment, but to stand by at his execution (Deut. 13:9)
Not to settle idolaters in our land (Ex. 23:33)
To slay the inhabitants of a city that has become idolatrous and burn that city (Deut. 13:16-17)
Not to rebuild a city that has been led astray to idolatry (Deut. 13:17)

Not to intermarry with gentiles (Deut. 7:3)

That the Court shall pass sentence of death by strangulation (Lev. 20:10)
That the Court shall pass sentence of death by burning with fire (Lev. 20:14)
That the Court shall pass sentence of death by stoning (Deut. 22:24)
To hang the dead body of one who has incurred that penalty (Deut. 21:22)
To adjudge a thief to pay compensation or (in certain cases) suffer death (Ex. 21:16; Ex. 21:37; Ex. 22:1)
To punish the wicked by the infliction of stripes (Deut. 25:2)


To condemn Islam for doing things they in fact COPIED from Judaism is hypocritical in the EXTREME.

But all that aside, I think you agree with me that the Quran is not the word of God.

No book is the word of God. They are all, without exception, the word of man.

Well, because there's over 25,000 discrete religions, I'd be more comfortable saying most aren't the word of God. What some obscure cult claims I don't know.

 

[PratchettFan]

I say it is not, for the following reasons.

1. The quran is filled with references to the bible and other texts, and I say is is copied from these sources, and not an original work.

2. The quran is full of terrible quotes about what God will do to unbelievers in Muhammad and the day of judgement, and that he will burn them in hellfire for all eternity, and I say this is all lies which degrade God, and make him a monster. It was written to scare people into obeying Muhammad, and it does not come from God.

Does anyone want to dispute my opinions?

Since I had the tab open already sure, I'll dispute it. Or at least that it's Qur'an that makes God look like a monster.

Not to give up hating the enticer to idolatry (Deut. 13:9)
To destroy idolatry and its appurtenances (Deut. 12:2-3)
Not to save the enticer from capital punishment, but to stand by at his execution (Deut. 13:9)
Not to settle idolaters in our land (Ex. 23:33)
To slay the inhabitants of a city that has become idolatrous and burn that city (Deut. 13:16-17)
Not to rebuild a city that has been led astray to idolatry (Deut. 13:17)

Not to intermarry with gentiles (Deut. 7:3)

That the Court shall pass sentence of death by strangulation (Lev. 20:10)
That the Court shall pass sentence of death by burning with fire (Lev. 20:14)
That the Court shall pass sentence of death by stoning (Deut. 22:24)
To hang the dead body of one who has incurred that penalty (Deut. 21:22)
To adjudge a thief to pay compensation or (in certain cases) suffer death (Ex. 21:16; Ex. 21:37; Ex. 22:1)
To punish the wicked by the infliction of stripes (Deut. 25:2)


To condemn Islam for doing things they in fact COPIED from Judaism is hypocritical in the EXTREME.

But all that aside, I think you agree with me that the Quran is not the word of God.

No book is the word of God. They are all, without exception, the word of man.

Well, because there's over 25,000 discrete religions, I'd be more comfortable saying most aren't the word of God. What some obscure cult claims I don't know.

What they claim makes no difference. Books are written by human beings.

 

[American_Jihad]

The Fantasy Islam of Reza Aslan
Welcome to the game of hiding what's in the Koran.
October 27, 2015
Dr. Stephen M. Kirby

Fantasy Islam: A game in which an audience of non-Muslims wish with all their hearts that Islam was a “Religion of Peace,” and a Muslim strives to fulfill that wish by presenting a personal version of Islam that has little foundation in Islamic Doctrine.

As I have mentioned before, "Fantasy Islam" is a popular game among many non-Muslims and so-called “moderate” or “reformist” Muslims. Reza Aslan appears to be such a Muslim.

Reza Aslan was born in Iran. In 1979, at the age of seven, he and his family fled the Iranian Revolution and came to the United States. At the age of 15 he converted to evangelical Christianity, but later returned to Islam. His website states that he is “an internationally acclaimed writer and scholar of religions.” He is currently a Professor of Creative Writing at the University of California, Riverside.

In 2005 Aslan wrote a book titled No god but God: The Origins, Evolution, and Future of Islam. The updated edition came out in 2011. This article addresses that updated edition.

It should be noted that in his book Aslan listed The Life of Muhammad and the multi-volume work The History of al-Tabari, as among the books he “consulted.” These are classical works by Muslim scholars and major sources for information about Muhammad and Islam. Aslan even specifically mentions them as among those that have “catalogued” the story of Islam (p. xxiv). Unfortunately, although Aslan claims that he “consulted” them, we will see that he apparently overlooked conflicting information in these works in favor of playing Fantasy Islam.

Death Penalty for Apostasy is “Un-Quranic”

On p. 121 Aslan stated that the death penalty for apostasy was “un-Quranic,” and he stated that nowhere in the Koran “is any earthly punishment prescribed for apostasy.”

The only problem for Aslan is that in 4:89 of the Koran Allah commands Muslims to take hold of those apostates who have left Islam and “kill them wherever you find them.” So the death penalty for apostasy from Islam is in the Koran.

In addition, Muhammad said that death was the penalty for a Muslim who left Islam (e.g. Sahih Al-Bukhari, Nos. 6878 and 6923; and Sahih Muslim, No. 1676). And Muhammad even specified the nature of that death:

If someone changes his religion - then strike off his head!

Al-Muwatta of Imam Malik ibn Anas, 36.18.15, in a section titled “Judgement on Abandonment of Islam.”

...

...

Conclusion

On p. 286 Aslan stated that Islam was a personal religion with “no mediator between the believer and God,” and “all people have the ability to discern God’s will for themselves.” He called this a “radical creed” that some have used

to develop wholly new interpretations of Islam that foster pluralism, individualism, modernism, and democracy; others have used it to propound an equally new ideal of Islam that calls for intolerance, bigotry, militancy, and perpetual war. Which of these interpretations is “true Islam” is an unanswerable question, since the rejection of institutional authority means that all interpretations of Islam must be considered equally authoritative.

So according to Aslan, Islam is whatever anybody wants it to be, and on top of that it can still be called Islam! And so Fantasy Islam is played.

The Fantasy Islam of Reza Aslan

 

[Campbell]

I say it is not, for the following reasons.

1. The quran is filled with references to the bible and other texts, and I say is is copied from these sources, and not an original work.

2. The quran is full of terrible quotes about what God will do to unbelievers in Muhammad and the day of judgement, and that he will burn them in hellfire for all eternity, and I say this is all lies which degrade God, and make him a monster. It was written to scare people into obeying Muhammad, and it does not come from God.

Does anyone want to dispute my opinions?

You think that is a cheap copy look at what it did for con man Joseph Smith and his sidekick Brigham Young......more hot nights than a pot bellied wood stove...more ass than a cowboy's saddle. Have you read the book of Mormon? AND.....he even claims the church origin rests with the lost, twelfth tribe of Israel, short for American Indians. I would have liked to see those golden plates the angel Mormon showed Smith.......'course nobody else saw them either. When it comes to the origin of various religions nothing else can hold a light to it....made up lies and human dreams and fantasies.....that's all any of it amounts to.

 

[Dajjal]

Bounce, I bounced this thread to make it easy to find for people on Twitter and I left a link to it there. I am hoping to attract more members to the USMB, especially Muslims.

 

[Dajjal]

It is my conclusion that the quran is largely stolen from the bible and other sources. The quran which is supposed to be the words of God contains references to many Jewish myths from the bible. It then presents them as true historical facts. Do Muslims really believe in Noahs ark, or Moses turning his staff into a snake, or Jonah being swallowed by a whale and spat up on a beach. Because all these stories are in the quran. Surely this proves the quran is not from God.

Here is the story of the Ark in the quran, sura 11.37

11.37. "But construct an Ark under Our eyes and Our inspiration, and address Me no (further) on behalf of those who are in sin: for they are about to be overwhelmed (in the Flood)."
11.38. Forthwith he starts constructing the Ark: every time that the Chiefs of his People passed by him, they threw ridicule on him. They threw ridicule on him. He said: "If ye ridicule us now, we (in our turn) can look down on you with ridicule likewise!
11.39. "But soon will ye know who it is on whom will descend a Penalty that will cover them with shame on whom will be unloosed a Penalty lasting."
11.40. At length behold! There came Our Command, and the fountains of the earth gushed forth! We said: "Embark therein of each kind two, male and female, and your family except those against whom the Word has already gone forth and the Believers." But only a few believed with him.
11.41. So he said: "Embark ye on the Ark in the name of Allah, whether it move or be at rest! For my Lord is, be sure, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful!"
11.42. So the Ark floated with them on the waves (towering) like mountains, and Noah called out to his son, who had separated himself (from the rest): "O my son! Embark with us, and be not with the Unbelievers!"
11.43. The son replied: "I will be take myself to some mountain: it will save me from the water." Noah said: "This day nothing can save, from the Command of Allah, any but those on whom He hath mercy!"? and the waves came between them, and the son was among those overwhelmed in the Flood.
11.44. When the word went forth: "O earth! swallow up thy water, and O sky! withhold (thy rain)!" and the water abated, and the matter was ended. The Ark rested on Mount Judi, and the word went forth: "Away with those who do wrong!"

Here is the story of Moses turning his staff into a snake.


26.29. (Pharaoh) said: "If thou dost put forward any god other than me, I will certainly put thee in prison!"
26.30. (Moses) said: "Even if I showed you something clear (and) convincing?"
26.31. (Pharaoh) said: "Show it then, if thou tellest the truth!"
26.32. So (Moses) threw his rod, and behold it was a serpent, plain (for all to see)!
26.33. And he drew out his hand, and behold, it was white to all beholders!
26.34. (Pharaoh) said to the Chiefs around him: "This is indeed a sorcerer well-versed:


Here is the story of Jonah being swallowed by a whale.


37.139. So also was Jonah among those sent (by us).
37.140. When he ran away (like slave from captivity) to the ship (fully) laden
37.141. He (agreed to) cast lots, and he was condemned:
37.142. Then the big Fish did swallow him, and he had done acts worthy of blame.
37.143. Had it not been that he (repented and) glorified Allah,
37.144. He would certainly have remained inside the Fish till the Day of Resurrection.
37.145. But We cast him forth, on the naked shore in a state of sickness

 

[Delta4Embassy]

I don't believe a god addressing Humankind would use any particular language of those humans but rather some universal language. Why would a god spend any time at all learning our languages? He gonna learn all of them and all their subtongues? No wonder he never saves a church van going off a cliff, he's busy learning modern itterations of languages.

Only 'godly' language is mathematics. So until and unless a holy book from some god is in math, it's not from a god at all.

 

[Dajjal]

Was Muhammad a Liar, madman or prophet. My reading of the quran is that he was a calculating liar who stole the bible stories to scare people into following him. One reason I think this is that he tries to justify himself many times in the quran, as proved by the following quotes. A true prophet would not waste space in the final message to all mankind trying to justify himself to his critics as Muhammad obviously does. Added to that he wrote the whole sura 111 dedicated to cursing his own aunt and uncle, because they did not believe in him.

7.184 Do they not reflect? Their companion is not seized with madness: he is but a perspicuous warner.

15.6 They say: "O thou to whom the Message is being revealed! truly thou art mad (or possessed)!

15.7 Why bring you not angels unto us, if you are of the truthful?

21.5 Nay," they say, "(these are) medleys of dream! - Nay, He forged it! - Nay, He is (but) a poet! Let him then bring us a Sign like the ones that were sent to (Prophets) of old!"

36.69 We have not instructed the (Prophet) in Poetry, nor is it meet for him: this is no less than a Message and a Qur'an making things clear:

37.36 And say: "What! shall we give up our gods for the sake of a Poet possessed?"

44.14 Yet they turn away from him and say: "Tutored (by others), a man possessed!"


50.30 Or do they say:- "A Poet! we await for him some calamity (hatched) by Time!"

52.29 Therefore proclaim thou the praises (of thy Lord): for by the Grace of thy Lord, thou art no (vulgar) soothsayer, nor art thou one possessed.

68.2 Thou art not, by the Grace of thy Lord, mad or possessed.

68.51 And the Unbelievers would almost trip thee up with their eyes when they hear the Message; and they say: "Surely he is possessed!"

69.41 It is not the word of a poet: little it is ye believe!

81.22 and your comrade is not mad.

81.25 Nor is it the word of an evil spirit accursed.

Here are three verses that show many people of Muhammads own time did not believe in him, but he tried to justify himself claiming the holy spirit taught him. But he mistook the meaning of the holy spirit in the bible, thinking the angel Gabriel was the messenger. But the holy spirit is part of the trinity, and it spoke though Jesus and the diciples. The angel Gabriel only announced the coming of John the baptist and Jesus, but gave no message to them.


16.101 When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not.

16.102 Say, the Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims.

16.103 We know indeed that they say, "It is a man that teaches him." The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is Arabic, pure and clear.

 

[Dajjal]

The quranic challenge.

Sura 17.88 Say verily, though mankind and the Jinn should assemble to produce the like of this quran, they could not produce the like thereof though they were the helpers of one another.

Quite apart from the fact that the quran is simplistic and repetitive, and it is plagiarism from other sources. Why does it frequently refer to itself as the quran, when it was not even compiled until well after Muhammads death?

A book telling you it is a book, when it has not even been written yet!

This is what I mean by reading the quran to analyze the text, and not going all weak in the head and throwing yourself on a prayer mat in case you annoy God.
The quran is full of ignorant, nasty, nonsense, and human literature is filled with far greater writings, from ancient Greece until the present day.


Try reading Homers Iliad or Odyssy, or Plato and Aristotle, or Shakespears sonnets, or Byron's Childe Harolds Pilgrimage, or the Pilgrims progress by Bunyan. Or Dante's the Divine Comedy. Or little flowers of St Francis. Or try coming up to date with Zen and the art of Motorcyle maintainance. Or the Tao of Physics by Fritjof Capra. Or The physics of immortality by Frank Tipler.

These are just a few books I grabbed off the shelves of my personal library to make a point.

There is only one thing I find remarkable about the quran, and that is that anyone in this world can possibly still believe it came from God.

 

[Dajjal]

Here is a drunken rant I wrote some time ago, but I do not think I posted it on this thread. On reading it I thought I should.

Since we cannot know if there is a God or not, either by Science or reason.
We can only come to believe in God by a suspension of disbelief. That is where religious theology enters the picture, and people tend to accept the rituals and authority of the dominant religions as their way to find God.
I have been through many religions and cults in my pursuit of truth, and I have found fault with most of them. But never until I read the Quran in 2001 did I find any theology that was so plainly fabricated. The entire Quran is filled with clues to the fact that Muhammad lied about being a messenger of God, and created a false religion to enslave peoples minds with fear.

THIS IS THE SPACE AGE, NOT THE 7TH CENTURY.

I have spent my life tearing the truth out of theologies, and now I know I have something to offer in that department. So when I see Islam collide with the West I seek to understand the reasons, and the reason is plain.

ISLAM IS ALL LIES ABOUT GOD, AND IT CONTAINS THE SEEDS OF SEPARATION, AND TRIBALISM, AND WAR.

In fact that was Muhammad's entire plan. He said people must obey Allah, and the Messenger (Muhammad) or face an awful doom. He told wandering desert Arabs that they must fight and die for him, or face doom from Allah. He even told them all spoils of war belonged to him, but later changed it to one fifth of the spoils, as he probably realized there would be no incentive for Arabs to join him. (see sura 8)

HE WAS A DIRTY MURDERING LIAR.

I have survived walking out of many religions and cults, and now I do not need any of them. But I still believe in a God, as everything I have learned tells me creation is meaningfull and progressive. In the past there have been many religions that human minds grew out of, so they were discarded for a better ideology. So maybe all I am trying to do is make muslims grow up.

BECAUSE IT IS CLEAR TO ME THAT THE TIME FOR ISLAM IS OVER.

We are one people, and one great family of souls, not believers and unbelievers in some 7th century Arab bandit that lied about being a messenger of God. Therefore Islam must die out for the sake of peace in the world. I think that will happen in this century, because Muslims have brains, so if the flaws in the Quran are pointed out to them, they will eventually wake up.

 

[Dajjal]

Scholars help me out here, I am trying to write a piece about the Qurans refrences to seven oceans. Also seven heavens. Anyone got any thoughts to clarify the issue?

There are verses in the Quran which mention where the Two seas join, and another verse about Seven Oceans.
Of course the words sea and ocean could be considered interchangeable, and then there is the Arabic translation issue, as there is no telling what the Quranic Arabic for sea and ocean are.


What are the seven seas?

To the ancients, "seven" often meant "many," and before the fifteenth century, the many seas of the world were:


the Red Sea
the Mediterranean Sea
the Persian Gulf
the Black Sea
the Adriatic Sea
the Caspian Sea
the Indian Ocean

Today, the world is generally considered divided into four main oceans:

the Arctic Ocean ,the Atlantic Ocean, the Indian Ocean ,the Pacific Ocean. In addition, there are numerous smaller seas and gulfs.


Also there is a reference to seven heavens, (sura 2.29) and I cannot see where Muhammad stole that from as I cannot find mention of Seven heavens in the Bible. I dunno if there is any talk of seven heavens in other early writings, like the Greek. Or it could just be as simple as the fact that the bible talks of seven things hundreds of times. (over four hundred times in the old testament alone, and many times in the book of revelations)

 

[September]

Scholars help me out here, I am trying to write a piece about the Qurans refrences to seven oceans. Also seven heavens. Anyone got any thoughts to clarify the issue?

...

Also there is a reference to seven heavens, (sura 2.29) and I cannot see where Muhammad stole that from as I cannot find mention of Seven heavens in the Bible. I dunno if there is any talk of seven heavens in other early writings, like the Greek. Or it could just be as simple as the fact that the bible talks of seven things hundreds of times. (over four hundred times in the old testament alone, and many times in the book of revelations)

7

Seven is a special number regarding the Celestial and the Infernal. Seven heavens are mentioned in ancient Mesopotamia and in Hinduism, Judaism, Islam, and certain pagan spiritual/ religious systems.

In the Descent of Ishtar and Inanna's Descent (of ancient Mesopotamian religion), the goddess Ishtar/ Inanna's journey into the Underworld takes her through seven Infernal gates. Hinduism talks about seven higher worlds and seven lower worlds. Jainism mentions seven Hells, as does certain pagan spiritual/ religious systems.

You seriously need to get it out of your mind that Muhammad "stole" or "plagiarized" from the Bible. Many spiritual/ religious motifs recur throughout religions, and the Bible is believed by countless people to contain epic truths and many historical accounts, so from that perspective repeating its stories isn't "stealing" or "plagiarism" at all. And despite the Bible's profound ability to give us a beautiful glimpse into the past and teach us great insights about human Nature, the Bible- like the Quran- has been used for brainwashing, indoctrination, mass manipulation, exploitation of the masses, spiritual domination, social control, a means to justify war and violence and murder and conquest, etc. Such is not unique to the Quran. But despite all this... the Bible and the Quran have both been used to aid countless people in living lives of peace and love and happiness and virtue.

It is up to the individual to use scripture as you Will.

Isn't that duality just something to behold? That Holy Books such as these could have such magificent power to unleash the Light or Dark within? The Quran as well as the Bible are indeed magickal.

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[Dajjal]

You seriously need to get it out of your mind that Muhammad "stole" or "plagiarized" from the Bible.

I am absolutely 100% certain that Muhammad stole most of his material from the bible, and most of the rest of it from other sources.