Zone1 Is the Pope worthy of the title "Holy Father" just like God?

[Dagosa]

It is a presence of absolute holiness. No words are necessary. That said, I have gotten some ideas on certain things regarding my personal, earthly situation while there.

Well it certainly makes more sense than having a conversation.

 

[Dagosa]

Believe what you want. It's a free country.

Pretty much what our country was in part founded upon; religious freedom.

 

[1miseryindex]

Pretty much what our country was in part founded upon; religious freedom.

Satan promises liberty

and delivers death (misery, Hell)

 

[Dagosa]

Satan promises liberty

and delivers death (misery, Hell)

Are you saying liberty is the work of the devil ?

 

[Dagosa]

Satan promises liberty

and delivers death (misery, Hell)

Then the church promises oppression ?

 

[Cougarbear]

And no scripture declares that men will become gods......in fact the scriptures detail the opposite. My doctrine comes in pure "Sola Scripture" format. If its not in the scriptures then its not from God....its tradition. The church that Christ reigns over is called the "Bride of Christ", a Bride that Jesus will collect in the sky at His return and judgment.....once judgment has been past upon humanity and the earth, the Bride of Christ will not become gods, but will forever be in service to the God of Creation.

The question is to the Mormon church.......who created God, if as your doctrine declares that "we" as humans can become gods because God is like us? The scriptures are clear, God is an everlasting, ever-existing Spirit being without end or beginning (John 4:24, Rev. 1:8). The word of God establishes the fact that God is an eternal spirit being (Isa. 57:15, Deut. 33:27...etc., there are over 28 passages of scriptures that declare that God is a Spirit Being without a beginning nor an end).

Man was CREATED in the Beginning, thus Man can never be gods, nor can God be like "us" physical humans. (Genesis 1) Its illogical to declare that God was ever created like mankind...which must be true if men can become gods. Jesus? Jesus was with God and was God (John 1) "The Word became flesh and dwelt among us"......Jesus being equal to God, gave up His divinity when He was born of a woman (Phil. 2:6-10). But......man will never be gods, the duty of the Bride of Christ is to serve the Father in heaven for eternity. Declaring that men will be become gods is like declaring that men who are evil will become the DEVIL at death.

Again the duty of the Bride of Christ...i.e, the Kingdom/church of God/Christ will be to serve and eternally worship God.......not become equal to God. (Revelation 4:10)

The nail in the coffin for those who declare that men will become gods is the passage that declares, "God is not a man that He should lie, or a son of man, that He should change His mind, Has He said, and will not do it? Or has He spoken and not fulfilled it?" -- Numbers 23:19

Well, you threw up on yourself again. Nothing proves Mary was sinless as I am saying. Jesus is the only one who can save us because he was perfect.

So,

And no scripture declares that men will become gods......in fact the scriptures detail the opposite. My doctrine comes in pure "Sola Scripture" format. If its not in the scriptures then its not from God....its tradition. The church that Christ reigns over is called the "Bride of Christ", a Bride that Jesus will collect in the sky at His return and judgment.....once judgment has been past upon humanity and the earth, the Bride of Christ will not become gods, but will forever be in service to the God of Creation.

The question is to the Mormon church.......who created God, if as your doctrine declares that "we" as humans can become gods because God is like us? The scriptures are clear, God is an everlasting, ever-existing Spirit being without end or beginning (John 4:24, Rev. 1:8). The word of God establishes the fact that God is an eternal spirit being (Isa. 57:15, Deut. 33:27...etc., there are over 28 passages of scriptures that declare that God is a Spirit Being without a beginning nor an end).

Man was CREATED in the Beginning, thus Man can never be gods, nor can God be like "us" physical humans. (Genesis 1) Its illogical to declare that God was ever created like mankind...which must be true if men can become gods. Jesus? Jesus was with God and was God (John 1) "The Word became flesh and dwelt among us"......Jesus being equal to God, gave up His divinity when He was born of a woman (Phil. 2:6-10). But......man will never be gods, the duty of the Bride of Christ is to serve the Father in heaven for eternity. Declaring that men will be become gods is like declaring that men who are evil will become the DEVIL at death.

Again the duty of the Bride of Christ...i.e, the Kingdom/church of God/Christ will be to serve and eternally worship God.......not become equal to God. (Revelation 4:10)

The nail in the coffin for those who declare that men will become gods is the passage that declares, "God is not a man that He should lie, or a son of man, that He should change His mind, Has He said, and will not do it? Or has He spoken and not fulfilled it?" -- Numbers 23:19

Psalms 82:6; John 10:34, "Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? We are gods in embryo learning to take our rightful heirship on the right hand of the Godhead. Father said we will inherit all that he has and is. In any even, you threw up on yourself again. You are a god.

Now, you want to throw up opinions and interpretations? Okay, where did the Father, Son and Holy Ghost come from? These are members of the Godhead are they not? Where did they come from? Rev 22:13, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. " In our Pearl of Great Price, Moses 6:67, "And thou art after the order of him who was without beginning of days or end of years, from all eternity to all eternity." Sounds like Mormons believe what you believe then. Except, the understanding is quite different. You take the words literally like the world was created in 6,000 years. It could have been but there is no spiritual nor physical evidence to back that up completely even though there are organizations trying to prove this.

So, since the Lord himself said in the scriptures, you are a god. But, children of Father in Heaven, the most High God. What were you then before since you are a potential god? Where did you come from? It would be reasonable to then assume you have always existed as well. Even before the universe we live in existed. See, it was our Father in Heaven who brought this universe into existence and therefore was the first and will be the last. It's His universe. You don't get to have it. But, you will become a god. so, where is your universe? When you organize it, you will be the first of that universe and for me, the first for my universe. Truth is reason and eternal. I know I've also got a mother in heaven too. Your spirit children will also have a mother too.

 

[Cougarbear]

Well, why don't u talk to God about it? Maybe God stopped wanting the Church to be like it was in the days of King David? I don't know.

I don't know everything. But neither do you. All I know is that Jesus chooses to live in the Catholic Church, even though it is built well and has gold chalices and stuff. He chooses to abide There. But no one at this forum ever wants to talk about THAT, do they?

the most important thing of all!

hmmm... what's that all about? must be running from Jesus... fast

Actually, Jesus lives in the Kingdom of God in Heaven. Not the Catholic Church. He visits his holy temples on earth in which the Catholic Church has none. Exactly none. But, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has Temples built for the House of the Lord. Also, did he tell you he abides in the Catholic Church? No. But, he did tell Joseph Smith not to join any of the Churches in 1820 which includes the great and abominable church, the Catholic Church. One who thinks Jesus wasn't the only perfect person sinless to walk the earth. you dudes think Mary was too? She was virtuous in that she did not have premarital sex with anyone. She kept that part of the law. Of course, she did finally have sex with another human being, Joseph. They had 4 or 5 children I believe. Including the Apostle James, Jesus half-brother.

 

[Dagosa]

Believe what you want. It's a free country.

It was a question.

 

[Dagosa]

Believe what you want. It's a free country.

Your belief, not mine.

 

[Clyde 154]

Well, you threw up on yourself again. Nothing proves Mary was sinless as I am saying. Jesus is the only one who can save us because he was perfect.

So,

Psalms 82:6; John 10:34, "Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? We are gods in embryo learning to take our rightful heirship on the right hand of the Godhead. Father said we will inherit all that he has and is. In any even, you threw up on yourself again. You are a god.

Now, you want to throw up opinions and interpretations? Okay, where did the Father, Son and Holy Ghost come from? These are members of the Godhead are they not? Where did they come from? Rev 22:13, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. " In our Pearl of Great Price, Moses 6:67, "And thou art after the order of him who was without beginning of days or end of years, from all eternity to all eternity." Sounds like Mormons believe what you believe then. Except, the understanding is quite different. You take the words literally like the world was created in 6,000 years. It could have been but there is no spiritual nor physical evidence to back that up completely even though there are organizations trying to prove this.

So, since the Lord himself said in the scriptures, you are a god. But, children of Father in Heaven, the most High God. What were you then before since you are a potential god? Where did you come from? It would be reasonable to then assume you have always existed as well. Even before the universe we live in existed. See, it was our Father in Heaven who brought this universe into existence and therefore was the first and will be the last. It's His universe. You don't get to have it. But, you will become a god. so, where is your universe? When you organize it, you will be the first of that universe and for me, the first for my universe. Truth is reason and eternal. I know I've also got a mother in heaven too. Your spirit children will also have a mother too.

Ye are gods? More personal interpretation of scripture? Ye are gods is defined by the content and context of the entire book, chapter and verse. You are personally translating to the point that your false doctrine contradicts other, explicit, literal passages of scriptures.........as given you by book, chapter and verse previously. Personal interpretation is forbidden because it ends exactly as you have demonstrated.........CONTRADICTIONS of scripture when the entire Bible was inspired by God (2 Tim. 3:16-17). The Holy Spirit would never contradict Himself. -- Personal interpretation is forbidden (2 Peter 1:20)

Surely.........no one can be that gullible in an attempt to "convolute" the Word of God.....twisting it like a pretzel in the attempt to mold it to fit into your personal doctrine.


Do just a little research and actually read from the passages of Ps. 82 (the section of the Law and the prophets that Jesus was quoting from when He said to the unbelieving Jews of His day......when the quote was (Ye are gods)....which came directly from Ps. 82:6. Read all of the passage in question and you will see Jesus is referring to those men who act as Judges for the Law (of Moses)....not literal GODS.

THE CONTEXT: Jesus was confronted and surrounded by Jewish "unbelievers". LIKE WOLVES READY TO POUNCE (John 10:22-24). The Jews in question had witnessed the miraculous acts preformed by Jesus, such as the healing of the man who had been ill for 38 years (John 5:2-18); sight given to the blind (John 9:1-34); still the Jews refused to accept or believe Him.



The Jews failure to believe in Jesus made it clear to Jesus that they were not His sheep (John 10:26). Thus Jesus made a comparison of His flock/sheep and the Jews who were not of His flock (John 10:27-28). His flock would hear His voice (John 10:14). His flock follows His word and ultimately would be eternally saved (John 10:10). Jesus states that human salvation rests upon 2 things "faith" and "grace" that are the supporting pillars of Christianity, the foundation upon which to further built upon. (John 10:27-29, Eph. 2:8-9). Jesus declared that the Jews who refused to accept Him would die in their sins (John 10:32) Jesus asks the Jews for which act of God are you going to stone Me? If God were your Father, You (the disbelieving Jews).......YOU WOULD LOVE ME. (John 8:42

Jesus declares that "HE" was equal to God (John 5:17)........the Jews comprehended that He was calling Himself the equal of the Father.......Jesus did not declare that those who believed are gods.

John 10:34 is explained. Jesus used the term "gods" with a small "g" and He was referring to What was written in the Law of Moses "Is it not written IN YOUR LAW (Jewish Law......which was for Biblical Israel only, not for any gentile nation -- Deut 5:1-4)..........I said ye are gods? (small g). If He (God) called them gods, ( its clear Jesus is referring to the Old Text Ps. 82:6), FROM WHOM THE WORD OF GOD CAME (the judges of the Law of Moses)...........Jesus then compares God calling His judges god does not compare with Jesus being the Son of God.)

Just what is the content of the Ps 82 that Jesus quoted.....what is the subject matter? Ps. 82 is addressing the abuse of authority by those appointed as Judges of God's Law, These judges (men) were judging unjustly (playing favorite) showing partiality to the wicked......while unjustly judging the weak and the fatherless.......

With no ambiguity whatsoever its clear that these judges were men ...........when you actually read Ps. 82 in context.......it relays the fact that these men ".........nevertheless, like men you shall die, and fall like any prince" -- Ps. 82:7

FACT: GODS DO NOT DIE

Logic: If it does not twist your Psyche. God is a spirit as declared in scripture....no? (John 4:24) Spirits do not have flesh and bone as declared by The Christ Himself (Luke 24:39)

If..........these gods were actually men.........living men, as Jesus is addressing in your supposed passage that proves men are gods........Jesus just contradicted Himself when He declares that Men are literal gods (spirit beings) in one breath and in another declares that Spirits do not have flesh and bones like the men He is addressing. Not to mention such nonsens also contradicts Ps. 82 that declares these Judges will die like any other prince (meaning others in a seat of power and authority)

"Whoosh!".........hear that noise? that's the wind passing between your ears when it encounters no obstruction.

























Read..........enlighten yourself, run from this cult like your clothes were on fire.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

We are letting second rate hacks make theological imperative definitions on USMB.

 

[Cougarbear]

Ye are gods? More personal interpretation of scripture? Ye are gods is defined by the content and context of the entire book, chapter and verse. You are personally translating to the point that your false doctrine contradicts other, explicit, literal passages of scriptures.........as given you by book, chapter and verse previously. Personal interpretation is forbidden because it ends exactly as you have demonstrated.........CONTRADICTIONS of scripture when the entire Bible was inspired by God (2 Tim. 3:16-17). The Holy Spirit would never contradict Himself. -- Personal interpretation is forbidden (2 Peter 1:20)

Surely.........no one can be that gullible in an attempt to "convolute" the Word of God.....twisting it like a pretzel in the attempt to mold it to fit into your personal doctrine.


Do just a little research and actually read from the passages of Ps. 82 (the section of the Law and the prophets that Jesus was quoting from when He said to the unbelieving Jews of His day......when the quote was (Ye are gods)....which came directly from Ps. 82:6. Read all of the passage in question and you will see Jesus is referring to those men who act as Judges for the Law (of Moses)....not literal GODS.

THE CONTEXT: Jesus was confronted and surrounded by Jewish "unbelievers". LIKE WOLVES READY TO POUNCE (John 10:22-24). The Jews in question had witnessed the miraculous acts preformed by Jesus, such as the healing of the man who had been ill for 38 years (John 5:2-18); sight given to the blind (John 9:1-34); still the Jews refused to accept or believe Him.



The Jews failure to believe in Jesus made it clear to Jesus that they were not His sheep (John 10:26). Thus Jesus made a comparison of His flock/sheep and the Jews who were not of His flock (John 10:27-28). His flock would hear His voice (John 10:14). His flock follows His word and ultimately would be eternally saved (John 10:10). Jesus states that human salvation rests upon 2 things "faith" and "grace" that are the supporting pillars of Christianity, the foundation upon which to further built upon. (John 10:27-29, Eph. 2:8-9). Jesus declared that the Jews who refused to accept Him would die in their sins (John 10:32) Jesus asks the Jews for which act of God are you going to stone Me? If God were your Father, You (the disbelieving Jews).......YOU WOULD LOVE ME. (John 8:42

Jesus declares that "HE" was equal to God (John 5:17)........the Jews comprehended that He was calling Himself the equal of the Father.......Jesus did not declare that those who believed are gods.

John 10:34 is explained. Jesus used the term "gods" with a small "g" and He was referring to What was written in the Law of Moses "Is it not written IN YOUR LAW (Jewish Law......which was for Biblical Israel only, not for any gentile nation -- Deut 5:1-4)..........I said ye are gods? (small g). If He (God) called them gods, ( its clear Jesus is referring to the Old Text Ps. 82:6), FROM WHOM THE WORD OF GOD CAME (the judges of the Law of Moses)...........Jesus then compares God calling His judges god does not compare with Jesus being the Son of God.)

Just what is the content of the Ps 82 that Jesus quoted.....what is the subject matter? Ps. 82 is addressing the abuse of authority by those appointed as Judges of God's Law, These judges (men) were judging unjustly (playing favorite) showing partiality to the wicked......while unjustly judging the weak and the fatherless.......

With no ambiguity whatsoever its clear that these judges were men ...........when you actually read Ps. 82 in context.......it relays the fact that these men ".........nevertheless, like men you shall die, and fall like any prince" -- Ps. 82:7

FACT: GODS DO NOT DIE

Logic: If it does not twist your Psyche. God is a spirit as declared in scripture....no? (John 4:24) Spirits do not have flesh and bone as declared by The Christ Himself (Luke 24:39)

If..........these gods were actually men.........living men, as Jesus is addressing in your supposed passage that proves men are gods........Jesus just contradicted Himself when He declares that Men are literal gods (spirit beings) in one breath and in another declares that Spirits do not have flesh and bones like the men He is addressing. Not to mention such nonsens also contradicts Ps. 82 that declares these Judges will die like any other prince (meaning others in a seat of power and authority)

"Whoosh!".........hear that noise? that's the wind passing between your ears when it encounters no obstruction.

























Read..........enlighten yourself, run from this cult like your clothes were on fire.

So, you take this long to try and explain away three words. “Ye are gods.” Well, you failed. Jesus responded to the accusation saying that he was God. Then Jesus responded “Did I not tell you, that “ye are gods” and children of the most High.” So, Jesus is claiming here to be Jehovah as he is quoting what he told Moses that we are also gods in embryo or child gods. See, we have the ability to choose good or evil and became as one of “US” (Gods). That is in Genesis if you didn’t recognize it. It doesn’t say we will usurp Father in Heaven like you seem to irrationally think.

Very simple. The old “KISS” method of understanding would help you greatly because nothing you posted made any logical sense.

 

[K9Buck]

We are letting second rate hacks make theological imperative definitions on USMB.

What should be the source of Christian doctrine?

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

What should be the source of Christian doctrine?

Not second rank hacks or wannabe ministers or pastors.

 

[K9Buck]

Not second rank hacks or wannabe ministers or pastors.

Ok. So you're a waste of time.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Ok. So you're a waste of time.

Not in the slightest. No spirit-filled 'apostles' in a real church,

 

[gtopa1]

What should be the source of Christian doctrine?

I usually go to Thomas Aquinas if I have a question. He's pretty good at this stuff.

I found this:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/44618106

Greg

 

[K9Buck]

I usually go to Thomas Aquinas if I have a question. He's pretty good at this stuff.

I found this:

So not the Bible.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

The Bible, while inspired in parts, is not inerrant.

 

[K9Buck]

The Bible, while inspired in parts, is not inerrant.

There are mistranslations which have let to erroneous doctrines such as forever punishment.

The main message of the Bible is to love God and to love one another which, admittedly, is difficult to do.