Zone1 Is the Pope worthy of the title "Holy Father" just like God?

[Cougarbear]

His words and meaning were clear. There was no confusion on his part. He's not giving you the option you are taking. That's on you.

John 6:25-66 tells us that after performing the miracle to feed the masses. Jesus tells them that he came down from heaven and is the bread of life. They grumble about this. He then proceeds to tell them that he was sent by God and reinforces that he is the bread of life. Jesus then shocks the crowd by telling them that the bread is his flesh. The Jews argue over this. They give Jesus every opportunity to soften his statement; to make his statement more symbolic. What does Jesus do? He doubles down. He tells them in very explicit terms that unless they eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood they won't have life in them. So what do many of them do? They leave because they found it offensive.

John 6:25-66

Jesus the Bread of Life
25 When they found him on the other side of the lake, they asked him, “Rabbi, when did you get here?”
26 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. 27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”
28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
30 So they asked him, “What sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do? 31 Our ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’[c]”
32 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
34 “Sir,” they said, “always give us this bread.”
35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
41 At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42 They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?”
43 “Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered. 44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’[d] Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me. 46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. 47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”
52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” 59 He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.

Many Disciples Desert Jesus
60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”
61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit[e] and life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”
66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

Did you not read verse 63? “The flesh counts for nothing.” It’s all “spiritual.” Jesus is the way to eternal life. Your spiritual faith as you take the Sacrament can give you eternal life keeping you spiritually in tune with the required baptism. But, the actual bread, as Christ says, means nothing. The bread has no purpose for changing into flesh for cannibalism. You said not to take things out of context and yet that is exactly what you did and your popes and priest scholars have done duping your thinking into abomination.

 

[ding]

Did you not read verse 63? “The flesh counts for nothing.” It’s all “spiritual.” Jesus is the way to eternal life. Your spiritual faith as you take the Sacrament can give you eternal life keeping you spiritually in tune with the required baptism. But, the actual bread, as Christ says, means nothing. The bread has no purpose for changing into flesh for cannibalism. You said not to take things out of context and yet that is exactly what you did and your popes and priest scholars have done duping your thinking into abomination.

Yes, verse 63 says the flesh is of no avail which is why he is offering his flesh and blood up.

Your parsing of the bible is ridiculous. Read the whole thing in context. Jesus could not have been more clear. I'm sorry it offends your sensibilities. I'm just going to keep posting it because it's the entire passage without parsing and is extremely clear.

John 6:25-66 tells us that after performing the miracle to feed the masses. Jesus tells them that he came down from heaven and is the bread of life. They grumble about this. He then proceeds to tell them that he was sent by God and reinforces that he is the bread of life. Jesus then shocks the crowd by telling them that the bread is his flesh. The Jews argue over this. They give Jesus every opportunity to soften his statement; to make his statement more symbolic. What does Jesus do? He doubles down. He tells them in very explicit terms that unless they eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood they won't have life in them. So what do many of them do? They leave because they found it offensive.

John 6:25-66

Jesus the Bread of Life
25 When they found him on the other side of the lake, they asked him, “Rabbi, when did you get here?”
26 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. 27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”
28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
30 So they asked him, “What sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do? 31 Our ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’[c]”
32 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
34 “Sir,” they said, “always give us this bread.”
35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
41 At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42 They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?”
43 “Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered. 44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’[d] Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me. 46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. 47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”
52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” 59 He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.

Many Disciples Desert Jesus
60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”
61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit[e] and life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”
66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

 

[Cougarbear]

Yes, verse 63 says the flesh is of no avail which is why he is offering his flesh and blood up.

Your parsing of the bible is ridiculous. Read the whole thing in context. Jesus could not have been more clear. I'm sorry it offends your sensibilities. I'm just going to keep posting it because it's the entire passage without parsing and is extremely clear.

John 6:25-66 tells us that after performing the miracle to feed the masses. Jesus tells them that he came down from heaven and is the bread of life. They grumble about this. He then proceeds to tell them that he was sent by God and reinforces that he is the bread of life. Jesus then shocks the crowd by telling them that the bread is his flesh. The Jews argue over this. They give Jesus every opportunity to soften his statement; to make his statement more symbolic. What does Jesus do? He doubles down. He tells them in very explicit terms that unless they eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood they won't have life in them. So what do many of them do? They leave because they found it offensive.

John 6:25-66

Jesus the Bread of Life
25 When they found him on the other side of the lake, they asked him, “Rabbi, when did you get here?”
26 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. 27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”
28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
30 So they asked him, “What sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do? 31 Our ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’[c]”
32 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
34 “Sir,” they said, “always give us this bread.”
35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
41 At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42 They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?”
43 “Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered. 44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’[d] Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me. 46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. 47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”
52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” 59 He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.

Many Disciples Desert Jesus
60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”
61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit[e] and life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”
66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

It says the flesh counts for nothing. The spirit of Christ gives eternal life as well as life in the world. So, since it is in the same paragraph, the two are connected. That’s why later he says do the sacraments in remembrance of him. Comprehension is a skill you aren’t using if you have it.

 

[ding]

It says the flesh counts for nothing. The spirit of Christ gives eternal life as well as life in the world. So, since it is in the same paragraph, the two are connected. That’s why later he says do the sacraments in remembrance of him. Comprehension is a skill you aren’t using if you have it.

It says the flesh is of no avail. It’s because the flesh is no avail it is sacrificed. And he said the flesh is of no avail in response to their being offended. Not to imply symbolism. And we should be offended. That was his point.

 

[ding]

Comprehension is a skill you aren’t using if you have it.

My comprehension skills are just fine. I’m reading what he said not what I want it to be. It’s your twisting of his words that shows it’s your bias that is affecting your reading comprehension.

 

[Cougarbear]

It says the flesh is of no avail. It’s because the flesh is no avail it is sacrificed. And he said the flesh is of no avail in response to their being offended. Not to imply symbolism. And we should be offended. That was his point.

Nope! It says the flesh counts for nothing when it comes to eternal life. And, the statement about the spirit proves this inside the same paragraph. Therefore it is all about symbolism.
Christ calls himself the bridegroom. All his teachings are symbolical. If not, then Christ married the other Mary.

 

[Cougarbear]

My comprehension skills are just fine. I’m reading what he said not what I want it to be. It’s your twisting of his words that shows it’s your bias that is affecting your reading comprehension.

Your comprehension is poor and you would not know because it’s so bad. But, so are the Catholic scholars and popes.

 

[kjw47]

Jesus called God "Holy Father". Do you believe that the Pope is deserving of that exalted title which puts him on the same level as God? Can we surmise that the Catholic Church's army of esteemed theologians concluded it was appropriate to put the Pope on the same level as God?

John 17:11​

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English Standard Version​

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11 And I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are one.

The Pope fathered 0 spiritual things, God fathered all of them. They cant understand simple bible milk, yet millions put their eternal lives in their hands, its very sad.
Matt 23:9--Jesus said--Do not call any man father on earth-- He wasn't speaking about Dads he was speaking of those who take the lead sharing spiritual food in a religion or congregation. The wise--RUN FROM THEM, they are these-2Thess 2:3--they created a false trinity god at their councils, added pagan practices to both holidays they hand to Jesus, etc statues, icons, graven images. How blind can people be? RUN FROM THEM.

 

[ding]

Nope! It says the flesh counts for nothing when it comes to eternal life. And, the statement about the spirit proves this inside the same paragraph. Therefore it is all about symbolism.
Christ calls himself the bridegroom. All his teachings are symbolical. If not, then Christ married the other Mary.

It says the flesh is of no avail. Not that it counts for nothing.

 

[ding]

Your comprehension is poor and you would not know because it’s so bad. But, so are the Catholic scholars and popes.

According to Jesus, you have no life in you.