Is the French healthcare system a good model for the U.S.?

[RadiomanATL]

Sorry, my mistake. I was finishing dinner, and just realized that I blurred Radio and LK's posts together, rather than realizing I had two different assholes talking.

No problem.

interesting, you can see her mindset. we are two assholes talking in your quote, later she edits it out to two guys, as you can see in her post.

I am an asshole. Therefore I don't care if someone calls me one. Now fuck off for trying to drag me into your tit for tat exchange with Cecilie.

 

[L.K.Eder]

No problem.

interesting, you can see her mindset. we are two assholes talking in your quote, later she edits it out to two guys, as you can see in her post.

I am an asshole. Therefore I don't care if someone calls me one. Now fuck off for trying to drag me into your tit for tat exchange with Cecilie.

not my intention, but i can see your point, and take the deserved "fuck off" with me. not my best moment in my short career on this board for sure.

 

[Coyote]

Bullshit.

None of you whining little bitches has the spine to get the fuck out and go live in those European socialist worker's paradises.

So basically....you're saying our system is so damn good we can't possibly learn from any other countries on how to improve it and if you don't like the status quo - leave.

Yet a majority of Americans seem to feel the status quo sucks.

Maybe that's what I should say next time you complain about taxes - go to some other country if you don't like it.

 

[Meister]

Bullshit.

None of you whining little bitches has the spine to get the fuck out and go live in those European socialist worker's paradises.

So basically....you're saying our system is so damn good we can't possibly learn from any other countries on how to improve it and if you don't like the status quo - leave.

Yet a majority of Americans seem to feel the status quo sucks.

Maybe that's what I should say next time you complain about taxes - go to some other country if you don't like it.

I'm not so sure the majority of "Americans" think the status quo sucks. Something like 80%+ are happy with the healthcare that they have. The quality of our healthcare is superior to any others that I have read about.
A person has to take in to account that around 10 million of the 50 million uninsured are illegals. Also there are another 10-15, maybe 20 million that are in the 18-30 range that can afford insurance that just don't see the cost benefit to the use of the insurance, so they by choice don't have any insurance. That leaves about half of the 50 million that do need the insurance. I don't believe that we need an overhaul of the system to obtain coverage for the truely needy. It can be done with credits, torts, and oversight by our government to obtain maximum coverage, at an affordable cost from all of us

 

[MadDog]

In 2004, French Health Minister Philippe Douste-Blazy told a government commission, "Our health system has gone mad. Profound reforms are urgent." Agence France-Presse recently reported that the French health-care system is running a deficit of $2.7 billion. And in the French presidential election in May, voters in surprising numbers rejected the Socialist candidate, Ségolène Royal, who had promised actually to raise some health benefits, and elected instead the center-right politician Nicolas Sarkozy, who, according to Agence France-Presse again, "plans to move fast to overhaul the economy, with the deficit-ridden health care system a primary target." Possibly Sarkozy should first consult with Michael Moore. After all, the tax-stoked French health care system may be expensive, but at least it's "free."

Hmm

 

[Bern80]

America will never have a good health, education etc. untill it stops spending trillions on war and weapons, stops all the fat cats bleeding the country dry and all the other turds that are running the show or should that be ruining it.

WRONG. You will see the biggest change when people like your and Chris, shut the fuck up, look in a mirror and ask yourselves, what can I do to improve this situation and then do it. If you want to be healthier live healthier. If you want to be smarter go learn. With the internet, knowledge costs nothing. All you libs do is blame other people, and everyone sits there and tells someone else to fix it and you have the nerve to wonder why nothing changes.

 

[Political Junky]

Bullshit.

None of you whining little bitches has the spine to get the fuck out and go live in those European socialist worker's paradises.

So basically....you're saying our system is so damn good we can't possibly learn from any other countries on how to improve it and if you don't like the status quo - leave.

Yet a majority of Americans seem to feel the status quo sucks.

Maybe that's what I should say next time you complain about taxes - go to some other country if you don't like it.

 

[WillowTree]

well just basically the demodumbcrats should take a look at Mass. and California.. both have been in the hands of democrat legislatures for yars and yars,,, and look how fucked up they are.. one state Mass can't make socialized medicine work but you guys are too freaking dumb to see the writing on the wall. that's why you are called DUmmies!

 

[Harry Dresden]

how the hell do you know what i wont or will support?.....i have been hammering away at guys like you and Chris and anyone else that is for this being shoved down our throats....asking a question that none of you fuckers wanna answer....so i will ask it again...to those of us who have major,serious medical problems....is the UHC plan going to cover those people or are they going to say sorry its to comprehensive and expensive,we cant cover you for what you need...tax dollars have to be spent wisely after all....are old people going to get help or are they still up shit creek?....care to answer Rocks or are you going to impersonate fred astaire and DANCE around it....like everyone has so far....

so once again none of the pro govt. health care people wanna answer this question.....so they are all dancing around it......i can hear them now....heres Old Rocks now...."i could have danced all night....i could have danced all night ...but my shorts were way to tight"...

 

[elvis]

how the hell do you know what i wont or will support?.....i have been hammering away at guys like you and Chris and anyone else that is for this being shoved down our throats....asking a question that none of you fuckers wanna answer....so i will ask it again...to those of us who have major,serious medical problems....is the UHC plan going to cover those people or are they going to say sorry its to comprehensive and expensive,we cant cover you for what you need...tax dollars have to be spent wisely after all....are old people going to get help or are they still up shit creek?....care to answer Rocks or are you going to impersonate fred astaire and DANCE around it....like everyone has so far....

so once again none of the pro govt. health care people wanna answer this question.....so they are all dancing around it......i can hear them now....heres Old Rocks now...."i could have danced all night....i could have danced all night ...but my shorts were way to tight"...

Old Rocks and be Fred Astaire and Chris can be Ginger Rogers.

 

[Coyote]

Bullshit.

None of you whining little bitches has the spine to get the fuck out and go live in those European socialist worker's paradises.

So basically....you're saying our system is so damn good we can't possibly learn from any other countries on how to improve it and if you don't like the status quo - leave.

Yet a majority of Americans seem to feel the status quo sucks.

Maybe that's what I should say next time you complain about taxes - go to some other country if you don't like it.

I'm not so sure the majority of "Americans" think the status quo sucks. Something like 80%+ are happy with the healthcare that they have. The quality of our healthcare is superior to any others that I have read about.[/quote]

Is it though? Quality measured in what way?

With the current "status quo" cost is a big problem.

From a 2006 study conducted by the Kaiser foundation: Costs in the nation's health care system are ensnaring millions more Americans: One in four report problems paying their medical bills, and nearly three in 10 -- rising to nearly half of women with children -- have put off treatment because of the cost, often despite a serious illness or condition. Both are new highs in polls dating back a decade or more.

When it comes to the system as a whole: 56% support shifting from the current system to some form of taxpayer-financed universal health insurance program. That's not a significant majority but a much higher majority favors some form of change to the status quo including: employer mandates, expanded government insurance programs or aid to provide low-income Americans with health coverage. Many of these are not only supported by much of the public, but "strongly" so.

A person has to take in to account that around 10 million of the 50 million uninsured are illegals. Also there are another 10-15, maybe 20 million that are in the 18-30 range that can afford insurance that just don't see the cost benefit to the use of the insurance, so they by choice don't have any insurance. That leaves about half of the 50 million that do need the insurance. I don't believe that we need an overhaul of the system to obtain coverage for the truely needy. It can be done with credits, torts, and oversight by our government to obtain maximum coverage, at an affordable cost from all of us

Those numbers don't however, include the other problem - the under-insured. Nor do they address the loss of coverage due to job loss or insurance maintaining their high profit margins by dropping "costly" patients through loopholes in coverage (for example, by defining slow growing cancers as "pre-existing conditions"). Tax credits really don't help that much because the people who typically need the help the most don't pay that much in taxes to begin with. I do agree strongly with tort reform - but that alone will not address the problems of cost.

 

[Toro]

France claims it long ago achieved much of what today's U.S. health-care overhaul is seeking: It covers everyone, and provides what supporters say is high-quality care. But soaring costs are pushing the system into crisis. The result: As Congress fights over whether America should be more like France, the French government is trying to borrow U.S. tactics. In recent months, France imposed American-style "co-pays" on patients to try to throttle back prescription-drug costs and forced state hospitals to crack down on expenses. "A hospital doesn't need to be money-losing to provide good-quality treatment," President Nicolas Sarkozy thundered in a recent speech to doctors. And service cuts -- such as the closure of a maternity ward near Ms. Cuccarolo's home -- are prompting complaints from patients, doctors and nurses that care is being rationed. That concern echos worries among some Americans that the U.S. changes could lead to rationing. The French system's fragile solvency shows how tough it is to provide universal coverage while controlling costs, the professed twin goals of President Barack Obama's proposed overhaul. French taxpayers fund a state health insurer, Assurance Maladie, proportionally to their income, and patients get treatment even if they can't pay for it. France spends 11% of national output on health services, compared with 17% in the U.S., and routinely outranks the U.S. in infant mortality and some other health measures. The problem is that Assurance Maladie has been in the red since 1989. This year the annual shortfall is expected to reach €9.4 billion ($13.5 billion), and €15 billion in 2010, or roughly 10% of its budget. ...

Despite the structural differences between the U.S. and French systems, both face similar root problems: rising drug costs, aging populations and growing unemployment, albeit for slightly different reasons. In the U.S., being unemployed means you might lose your coverage; in France, it means less tax money flowing into Assurance Maladie's coffers. France faces a major obstacle to its reforms: French people consider access to health care a societal right, and any effort to cut coverage can lead to a big fight. For instance, in France, people with long-term diseases get 100% coverage (similar to, say, Medicare for patients with end-stage kidney diseases). The government proposed trimming coverage not directly related to a patient's primary illness -- a sore throat for someone with diabetes, for example. The proposal created such public outcry that French Health Minister Roselyne Bachelot later said the 100% coverage rule was "set in stone." ...

France launched its first national health-care system in 1945. World War II had left the country in ruins, and private insurers were weak. The idea: Create a single health insurer and make it compulsory for all companies and workers to pay premiums to it based on a percentage of salaries. Patients can choose their own doctors, and -- unlike the U.S., where private health insurers can have a say -- doctors can prescribe any therapy or drug without approval of the national health insurance. ...

Proponents of the private-based U.S. health system argue that competition between insurers helps provide patients with the best possible service. In France, however, Assurance Maladie says its dominant position is its best asset to manage risks and keep doctors in check. "Here, we spread health risks on a very large base," says Mr. Van Roekeghem of Assurance Maladie. The quasi-monopoly of Assurance Maladie makes it the country's largest buyer of medical services. That gives it clout to keep the fees charged by doctors low. About 90% of general practitioners in France have an agreement with Assurance Maladie specifying that they can't charge more than €22 (about $32) for a consultation. For house calls they can add €3.50 to the bill. By comparison, under Medicare, doctors are paid $91.97 for a first visit and $124.97 for a moderately complex consultation, according to the American College of Physicians. ...

The state hospital of Le Havre, called Groupement Hospitalier du Havre, or GHH, has nearly 2,000 beds and is one of the most financially strapped in France. A 2002 report by France's health-inspection authority found that the hospital had a track record of falsifying accounts in order to obtain more state funds. Philippe Paris was hired about two years ago to help fix the hospital's spiraling costs. He is cutting 173 jobs out of the staff of 3,543. And he is trying to enforce working hours. "People don't work enough," he said. "If consultations are scheduled to begin at 8 a.m., that means 8 a.m. and not 11 a.m."

France Fights Universal Care's High Cost - WSJ.com

The last line is the funniest.

Note also that there are no restrictions on which doctor the French can see, unlike in the US where the HMO has a list of approved doctors.

In Belgium, not only can you go see any doctor, you can go see a specialist without a referral.

 

[driveby]

No ......

 

[Political Junky]

well just basically the demodumbcrats should take a look at Mass. and California.. both have been in the hands of democrat legislatures for yars and yars,,, and look how fucked up they are.. one state Mass can't make socialized medicine work but you guys are too freaking dumb to see the writing on the wall. that's why you are called DUmmies!

Issa backed the election to throw out Davis and install Arnold. Since then the states' financial woes have increased markedly.

 

[Cecilie1200]

that's ok, darling. next time, read the thread before you opine on it, will ya?
my name was invoked, that's why i appeared like a djinn. on the other thread i gave info about the not so new liver splitting technique and was asked about my opinion about health care in germany, you know the country where we would all be talking german if it wasn't for you personally or something. then my opinion got dragged to this thread, and that's why we met. any more questions?

I'm not your dear, nor your darling. I read the thread. It was YOU I paid next to no attention to, and as I just demonstrated, I didn't need to pay you any more, because either way, I managed to get your number.

Am I on another thread you posted on? Not that I'm aware of, and it's not my job to research you. I don't honestly give a fuck which country you live in, because either way, you're still . . . wait for it . . . an asshole.

Any more questions?

this is fun, dear darling. i got your number too, from the restroom in the sleazy biker bar. but i won't call. no fear, babe.

as i said i got your attention by claiming to have a better system than the U!S!A!, that's when you had to slobber in with your pavlovian jibber. am i earning my asshole label now, or something.

I'm glad that you get such enjoyment from having women spit on you and reject you, since I imagine it makes your day-to-day life easier to bear. And while I don't doubt that you spend a lot of time in sleazy biker bars (and probably in their restrooms, come to think of it), I would appreciate it if you didn't drag me into your tragic little world, even by means of an utterly puerile and lame insult attempt.

Actually, you've made it clear that "asshole" was giving you entirely too much credit. "Ignored cretin" is more appropriate. FLUSH!

 

[Cecilie1200]

how the hell do you know what i wont or will support?.....i have been hammering away at guys like you and Chris and anyone else that is for this being shoved down our throats....asking a question that none of you fuckers wanna answer....so i will ask it again...to those of us who have major,serious medical problems....is the UHC plan going to cover those people or are they going to say sorry its to comprehensive and expensive,we cant cover you for what you need...tax dollars have to be spent wisely after all....are old people going to get help or are they still up shit creek?....care to answer Rocks or are you going to impersonate fred astaire and DANCE around it....like everyone has so far....

so once again none of the pro govt. health care people wanna answer this question.....so they are all dancing around it......i can hear them now....heres Old Rocks now...."i could have danced all night....i could have danced all night ...but my shorts were way to tight"...

Old Rocks and be Fred Astaire and Chris can be Ginger Rogers.

You figure Chris can do anything Old can, backwards and in high heels?

 

[Chris]

so once again none of the pro govt. health care people wanna answer this question.....so they are all dancing around it......i can hear them now....heres Old Rocks now...."i could have danced all night....i could have danced all night ...but my shorts were way to tight"...

Old Rocks and be Fred Astaire and Chris can be Ginger Rogers.

You figure Chris can do anything Old can, backwards and in high heels?

When faced with the truth, the right will do one of two things...

1. Personal insult

2. Change the subject

You have managed to do both in one post.

 

[tigerbob]

As of 2003, the average income of a French physician was estimated at $55,000; in the U.S. the comparable number was $194,000....Did I mention that health care is a labor-intensive industry? This is the major reason why French health care is cheaper than U.S. health care
Greg Mankiw's Blog: Striking Health Care Fact

You libs are funny. First it was "We want Britain's model" until people learned about them pulling their own teeth. Then it was "Canada is the best!" until we learned that the rich come here for surgery. Now it's Germany, France, Cuba, Denmark, ....

How about if the politicians look at all these models, take a breather, and transform 1/6 of our economy based on what works best? How about if they take their time, and focus on the needs of the citizens and not just the illegals? How about if they stop hating America so much? Is that too much to ask for.

BTW

Brits pull their own teeth? That'll be news to them.

 

[Chris]

As of 2003, the average income of a French physician was estimated at $55,000; in the U.S. the comparable number was $194,000....Did I mention that health care is a labor-intensive industry? This is the major reason why French health care is cheaper than U.S. health care
Greg Mankiw's Blog: Striking Health Care Fact

You libs are funny. First it was "We want Britain's model" until people learned about them pulling their own teeth. Then it was "Canada is the best!" until we learned that the rich come here for surgery. Now it's Germany, France, Cuba, Denmark, ....

How about if the politicians look at all these models, take a breather, and transform 1/6 of our economy based on what works best? How about if they take their time, and focus on the needs of the citizens and not just the illegals? How about if they stop hating America so much? Is that too much to ask for.

BTW

Brits pull their own teeth? That'll be news to them.

The British healthcare system sucks. It is not a good model.

The French and the Swedes have better ones.

Ours sucks as well, unless you are rich.

 

[tigerbob]

You libs are funny. First it was "We want Britain's model" until people learned about them pulling their own teeth. Then it was "Canada is the best!" until we learned that the rich come here for surgery. Now it's Germany, France, Cuba, Denmark, ....

How about if the politicians look at all these models, take a breather, and transform 1/6 of our economy based on what works best? How about if they take their time, and focus on the needs of the citizens and not just the illegals? How about if they stop hating America so much? Is that too much to ask for.

BTW

Brits pull their own teeth? That'll be news to them.

The British healthcare system sucks. It is not a good model.

The French and the Swedes have better ones.

Ours sucks as well, unless you are rich.

If your post had had 2 words removed and had read...

The British healthcare system is not a good model.

...I would have agreed with you.