I just hope I can retire out of the USAF in 20-30 years and teach at a War College, or a military Academy. A place where discipline is more in the system then a public school. I couldn't imagine teaching at a public high school. Plus I doubt their are many with Military History as a class lol. (Accidentally typed 'ass' instead of as after Military History lol).
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Is Teaching a respected Profession in This country?
- Thread starter bodecea
- Start date
Wicked Jester
Libsmackin'chef
He was a union teacher referred by the union........Fact of the matter is, this kind of crap is going on in our public schools everyday. Go on Youtube, and you'll find never ending evidence of what is going on.Because a PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHER showed the sexual parts of " BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN" last month to his class of thirteen year olds, thereby unleashing a firestorm from parents who aren't going to put up with that bullshit anymore?
I'm probably going to regret this as I really do think public school teachers need to be held more accountable and when they screw up the union shouldn't be all about protecting bad teachers.
However the person in the classroom that showed Brokeback Mountain was not a regular teacher, the person was a substitute filling in for the regular teacher. Normally substitutes are not regular employees of the district (as in Full Time or Part Time). Typically they are temporary employees called in as needed to fill a vacancy when a teacher is required to be absent.
Again, I'm not excusing what happened, the person should definitely be permanently fired and barred from working in the classroom for displaying poor professionalism and the school district has responsibility for the actions of the substitute working that day.
Chicago Board of Ed Sued for Teacher Allegedly Showing 'Brokeback Mountain' in Class - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com
>>>>
This kind of crap wasn't going on when I went to public school. We were taught the basics. We didn't have political ideals shoved down our throats. We weren't taught BS revisionist history......I'm sick and tired of hearing the, "It's all the parents fault. The teachers are the greatest!. How dare you question the teachers!"
Lets face it, the liberal agenda is permeating our public schools. And IT IS a reason for the failures we are seeing. Yeah, there are parents who need to be held accountable, no doubt. But the fact of the matter is, the evidence towards the liberal agenda cannot be overlooked. It's real, and the evidence is there.
Bottom line, there is no reason whatsoever for religion, politics, sexual preference etc., to be shoved down our childrens throats in a PUBLIC SCHOOL SETTING.
Annie
Diamond Member
- Nov 22, 2003
- 50,848
- 4,827
- 1,790
I've not read through this thread, I had read some earlier and now I've read some on the back end.
I love teaching, I'm doing all I can to find a permanent position. I love subbing and would never consider showing any video not given by the teacher I'm subbing for. If told to show something like Brokeback Mtn., I'd go to the chair first, if not helpful I'd go to the principal. So would every sub I've worked with.
With that said, in all but one class where the teacher was taken out by ambulance, I've walked into a classroom with well prepared lessons and kids wanting to learn. Nearly all the teachers I've known have been professional in their behavior and preparing for classes. I'll bet up to a couple weeks ago, that was true of most of the teachers in WI. However at some point they decided that their union was more important that the kids. It was a choice I would not have made, though I'm certain some teachers here would.
In my area teachers are not underpaid, they make considerably more than those with equivalent education. That doesn't mean they have it easy, they don't. But they also are not bored while answering phones in an office or filling out forms for a company. They are not in most schools in danger, contrary to the man bites dog stories we read about. In 2007-2008 school year, the lowest avg salary was over $38k, the only state that was in the 30's. My state avg was over $60k and that was 4 school years ago.
I think it's time we stop acting like teachers are facing bullets and fists at every turn. Once in 15 years have I dealt with a physical altercation and all of my teaching experience has been in middle and high schools, including 3 years in a low income public high school. Of course there are exceptions, but there are those at post offices and office buildings too. Not nearly as many security measures are taken after the fact at locations other than schools.
I'm tired of people claiming that teachers are showing dirty videos, encouraging sex amongst the kids, that we all are indoctrinating them into some hedonistic future. I'm equally sick of arguments that teachers are grossly underpaid, self-sacrificing angels that live altruistic lives. That students are dangerous and all are unmotivated. That parents don't care about their kids or their education.
All the above are caricatures with little basis of reality, based upon partisan views with some anecdotal examples. Most teachers are decent, many are very good, some are exceptional, a few should not be in a classroom or babysitting. Same with the students. Same with the parents.
Bodecea keeps posting about teachers lasting an average of 5 years. I don't doubt that, most teachers are female and graduate at 21 or 22. Many leave a few years after that for pregnancies, moving to another location, find that the work isn't for them, often return to school to move into another career or administration. Most teachers that can't teach or control the classroom, (same result), usually leave after 1 or 2 years. They should leave.
Inner city schools and rural schools are going to have more turnover because of burn out and resources. However, most schools are not inner city or rural.
I love teaching, I'm doing all I can to find a permanent position. I love subbing and would never consider showing any video not given by the teacher I'm subbing for. If told to show something like Brokeback Mtn., I'd go to the chair first, if not helpful I'd go to the principal. So would every sub I've worked with.
With that said, in all but one class where the teacher was taken out by ambulance, I've walked into a classroom with well prepared lessons and kids wanting to learn. Nearly all the teachers I've known have been professional in their behavior and preparing for classes. I'll bet up to a couple weeks ago, that was true of most of the teachers in WI. However at some point they decided that their union was more important that the kids. It was a choice I would not have made, though I'm certain some teachers here would.
In my area teachers are not underpaid, they make considerably more than those with equivalent education. That doesn't mean they have it easy, they don't. But they also are not bored while answering phones in an office or filling out forms for a company. They are not in most schools in danger, contrary to the man bites dog stories we read about. In 2007-2008 school year, the lowest avg salary was over $38k, the only state that was in the 30's. My state avg was over $60k and that was 4 school years ago.
I think it's time we stop acting like teachers are facing bullets and fists at every turn. Once in 15 years have I dealt with a physical altercation and all of my teaching experience has been in middle and high schools, including 3 years in a low income public high school. Of course there are exceptions, but there are those at post offices and office buildings too. Not nearly as many security measures are taken after the fact at locations other than schools.
I'm tired of people claiming that teachers are showing dirty videos, encouraging sex amongst the kids, that we all are indoctrinating them into some hedonistic future. I'm equally sick of arguments that teachers are grossly underpaid, self-sacrificing angels that live altruistic lives. That students are dangerous and all are unmotivated. That parents don't care about their kids or their education.
All the above are caricatures with little basis of reality, based upon partisan views with some anecdotal examples. Most teachers are decent, many are very good, some are exceptional, a few should not be in a classroom or babysitting. Same with the students. Same with the parents.
Bodecea keeps posting about teachers lasting an average of 5 years. I don't doubt that, most teachers are female and graduate at 21 or 22. Many leave a few years after that for pregnancies, moving to another location, find that the work isn't for them, often return to school to move into another career or administration. Most teachers that can't teach or control the classroom, (same result), usually leave after 1 or 2 years. They should leave.
Inner city schools and rural schools are going to have more turnover because of burn out and resources. However, most schools are not inner city or rural.
He was a union teacher referred by the union....Because a PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHER showed the sexual parts of " BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN" last month to his class of thirteen year olds, thereby unleashing a firestorm from parents who aren't going to put up with that bullshit anymore?
I'm probably going to regret this as I really do think public school teachers need to be held more accountable and when they screw up the union shouldn't be all about protecting bad teachers.
However the person in the classroom that showed Brokeback Mountain was not a regular teacher, the person was a substitute filling in for the regular teacher. Normally substitutes are not regular employees of the district (as in Full Time or Part Time). Typically they are temporary employees called in as needed to fill a vacancy when a teacher is required to be absent.
Again, I'm not excusing what happened, the person should definitely be permanently fired and barred from working in the classroom for displaying poor professionalism and the school district has responsibility for the actions of the substitute working that day.
Chicago Board of Ed Sued for Teacher Allegedly Showing 'Brokeback Mountain' in Class - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com
>>>>
Thank you for that item of information, I'll file it away for future reference and will modify my perception of the situation accordingly.
Would you have reference that supports that?
Most of our subs are not professionally certified, although we do have some retired teachers who are certified who keep there toes in the water or are willing to fill in during a long term absence (surgery, maternity, etc...)
Thanks in advance.
WW
>>>>
Last edited:
My first teaching contract back in the mid 90's was at a school in rural SW Missouri. I cleared $1,150 a month, and it was cheaper to be on my husband's insurance. However, I went into the teaching profession with my eyes wide open, and never expected to get rich from teaching. Imagine my amazement when I found out there were parts of the country where teachers were making triple my salary, and not for triple the cost of living. Aside from that, the union bosses are some of the greediest assholes in this country, and cloak themselves as "do-gooders" for the workers.
I think one way to judge the character of a teacher is to ask them what they think of two things:
1) The dept. of Education
2) Teachers unions I honestly don't think I could do it. I couldn't stand to bear the shackles of the DoE nor the hyper political sensitive administrators.
And how would those questions judge the character of a teacher? OR would it be more...see if that teacher agrees with you or not?
That's easy.
The Dept. of Education is a failure in every single problem they were suppose to alleviate.
They cannot speak of ANY successes in their entire existence.
Teachers unions make it next to impossible to get rid of bad teachers.
Soo...it is clear that if a teachers priority is education students - that they couldn't possibly support either one.
- Thread starter
- Banned
- #326
He was a union teacher referred by the union....I'm probably going to regret this as I really do think public school teachers need to be held more accountable and when they screw up the union shouldn't be all about protecting bad teachers.
However the person in the classroom that showed Brokeback Mountain was not a regular teacher, the person was a substitute filling in for the regular teacher. Normally substitutes are not regular employees of the district (as in Full Time or Part Time). Typically they are temporary employees called in as needed to fill a vacancy when a teacher is required to be absent.
Again, I'm not excusing what happened, the person should definitely be permanently fired and barred from working in the classroom for displaying poor professionalism and the school district has responsibility for the actions of the substitute working that day.
Chicago Board of Ed Sued for Teacher Allegedly Showing 'Brokeback Mountain' in Class - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com
>>>>
Thank you for that item of information, I'll file it away for future reference and will modify my perception of the situation accordingly.
Would you have reference that supports that?
Most of our subs are not professionally certified, although we do have some retired teachers who are certified who keep there toes in the water or are willing to fill in during a long term absence (surgery, maternity, etc...)
Thanks in advance.
WW
>>>>
I would like to see his evidence that that sub was a Union teacher also. Around here, subs are not....only if they get contracts to teach from the district do they join the union...it's pretty obvious they can't join yet because subs usually work in more than one district at a time, signing up with 4-5 depending on how many calls they can get to keep busy.
- Thread starter
- Banned
- #327
I think one way to judge the character of a teacher is to ask them what they think of two things:
1) The dept. of Education
2) Teachers unions I honestly don't think I could do it. I couldn't stand to bear the shackles of the DoE nor the hyper political sensitive administrators.
And how would those questions judge the character of a teacher? OR would it be more...see if that teacher agrees with you or not?
That's easy.
The Dept. of Education is a failure in every single problem they were suppose to alleviate.
They cannot speak of ANY successes in their entire existence.
Teachers unions make it next to impossible to get rid of bad teachers.
Soo...it is clear that if a teachers priority is education students - that they couldn't possibly support either one.
In your opinion.
- Thread starter
- Banned
- #328
After seeing the way the kids treat teachers in middle school and high school, my answer is no.
That aspect of the job alone earns my respect.
I would be amused to see the Governor of WI and the Republican members of their state congress fill in the classroom a few days. That would make for some funny theater.
In your opinion.
Which is logical.
- Jul 18, 2010
- 1,278
- 160
- 98
I was told to respect teachers as a kid but for the most part they did not live up to their PR.
Education and indoctrination are not the same thing. Most of the teachers I had were indoctrinators not educators and although I was mostly courteous to them I did not respect them.
I got more useful information from books that I had to find on my own than from teachers.
This is the most hilarious indictment of education that I have ever seen.
And that was from the late 80s and they keep calling those people EDUCATED. Our concept of education is EXTREMELY Cultural but how reality works does not care about any culture. If global warming is happening then culture won't matter. The humanities and sociology people don't accept that hard science trumps them. I bought this book back then:
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Cultural-Literacy-Every-American-Needs/dp/0394758439]Amazon.com: Cultural Literacy: What Every American Needs to Know (9780394758435): E.D. Hirsch Jr.: Books[/ame]
.
.
Though I could probably pass the cultural literacy tests I thought the list was really dumb. The Battle of Hastings was more important than the Moon landing. This fixation on the past is about slowing down the future. The future is about to body slam us.
So now we have all of these miseducated kids that are supposed to respect teachers that have wasted their time on junk.
psik
Education and indoctrination are not the same thing. Most of the teachers I had were indoctrinators not educators and although I was mostly courteous to them I did not respect them.
I got more useful information from books that I had to find on my own than from teachers.
This is the most hilarious indictment of education that I have ever seen.
And that was from the late 80s and they keep calling those people EDUCATED. Our concept of education is EXTREMELY Cultural but how reality works does not care about any culture. If global warming is happening then culture won't matter. The humanities and sociology people don't accept that hard science trumps them. I bought this book back then:
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Cultural-Literacy-Every-American-Needs/dp/0394758439]Amazon.com: Cultural Literacy: What Every American Needs to Know (9780394758435): E.D. Hirsch Jr.: Books[/ame]
.
.
Though I could probably pass the cultural literacy tests I thought the list was really dumb. The Battle of Hastings was more important than the Moon landing. This fixation on the past is about slowing down the future. The future is about to body slam us.
So now we have all of these miseducated kids that are supposed to respect teachers that have wasted their time on junk.
psik
Last edited by a moderator:
- Thread starter
- Banned
- #331
In your opinion.
Which is logical.
To you.
In your opinion.
Which is logical.
To you.
No. To anyone who is logical.
You tell me, in any way, how the Dept. of Edu could be considered a success on even a small level.
The department was developed, and then revamped by President Carter to address very specific problems - namely improve drop out rates as an example.
Not one - not one - of the D.O.E. charter outlines have they improved or eliminated.
You tell me how it would be illogical to state that they are unsuccessful.
yeah.
- Feb 12, 2007
- 59,384
- 24,018
- 2,290
Teaching as we know it, is going to go the way of the Dodo bird. The internet explosion eliminates the need for massive facilities (baby sitting anyone?) , adminstration, school lunches, etc.. One teacher can teach millions of kids how to read. One teacher can teach millions of children how to do arithmatic. The student of the future will log on from home - watch a video lesson and take a test. They will even be able to ask questions and get answers to their questions (an added bonus is that the answers will be correct!). It will be efficient, effectivie, and far less costly.
Anyone considering a career in education should reconsider...
And the sooner the better.
Texas has an initiative to lower the cost of an undergraduate degree to $10,000 in total. The internet should be able to drive that cost down even further.
Which is logical.
To you.
No. To anyone who is logical.
You tell me, in any way, how the Dept. of Edu could be considered a success on even a small level.
The department was developed, and then revamped by President Carter to address very specific problems - namely improve drop out rates as an example.
Not one - not one - of the D.O.E. charter outlines have they improved or eliminated.
You tell me how it would be illogical to state that they are unsuccessful.
yeah.
*chirp* *chirp*
- Thread starter
- Banned
- #335
Teaching as we know it, is going to go the way of the Dodo bird. The internet explosion eliminates the need for massive facilities (baby sitting anyone?) , adminstration, school lunches, etc.. One teacher can teach millions of kids how to read. One teacher can teach millions of children how to do arithmatic. The student of the future will log on from home - watch a video lesson and take a test. They will even be able to ask questions and get answers to their questions (an added bonus is that the answers will be correct!). It will be efficient, effectivie, and far less costly.
Anyone considering a career in education should reconsider...
And the sooner the better.
Texas has an initiative to lower the cost of an undergraduate degree to $10,000 in total. The internet should be able to drive that cost down even further.
Internet degrees....
Yeah, people are gonna stay honest with those.
Momanohedhunter
Rookie
- Banned
- #336
Nothing but respect for my kids teachers.
chanel
Silver Member
"Did you hear about the new state program to measure effectiveness of dentists with their young patients?" I said.
"It's quite simple," I said. "They will just count the number of cavities each patient has at age 10, 14, and 18 and average that to determine a dentist's rating. Dentists will be rated as Excellent, Good, Average, Below average, and Unsatisfactory. That way parents will know which are the best dentists. It will also encourage the less effective dentists to get better. Poor dentists who don't improve could lose their licenses to practice."
Don't you think we should try to improve children's dental health in this state?"
"Don't you see that dentists don't all work with the same clientele; so much depends on things we can't control? For example, I work in a rural area with a high percentage of patients from deprived homes, while some of my colleagues work in upper middle class neighborhoods. Many of the parents I work with don't bring their children see me until there is some problem and I don't get to do much preventive work. Also," he said, "many of the parents I serve let their kids eat way too much candy from an early age, unlike more educated parents who understand the relationship between sugar and decay. To top it all off, so many of my clients have well water which is untreated and has no fluoride in it. Do you have any idea how much difference early use of fluoride can make?"
"It sounds like you're making excuses," I said. I couldn't believe my dentist would be so defensive. He does a great job.
"I am not!" he said. "My best patients are as good as anyone's, my work is as good as anyone's, but my average cavity count is going higher than a lot of other dentists because I chose to work where I am needed most. In a system like this, I will end up being rated average, below average, or worse. My more educated patients who see these ratings may believe this so-called rating actually is a measure of my ability and proficiency as a dentist. They may leave me, and I'll be left with only the most needy patients. And my cavity average score will get even worse. On top of that, how will I attract good dental hygienists and other excellent dentists to my practice if it is labeled below average?"
"I think you are overreacting," I said. "Complaining, excuse making and stonewalling won't improve dental health... I am quoting from a leading member of the DOC," I noted.
"What's the DOC?" he asked.
"It's the Dental Oversight Committee," I said, "a group made up of mostly laypersons to make sure dentistry in this state gets improved."
"How else would you measure good dentistry?" "Come watch me work," he said. "Observe my processes." "That's too complicated and time consuming," I said. "Cavities are the bottom line, and you can't argue with the bottom line. It's an absolute measure."
"You don't get it," he said. "Doing this would be like grading schools and teachers on an average score on a test of children's progress without regard to influences outside the school, the home, the community served and stuff like that. Why would they do something so unfair to dentists? No one would ever think of doing that to schools."
Comments on N.J. residents support factoring student test scores into teacher evaluations, poll finds | New Jersey Real-Time News - Page 7 -
Annie
Diamond Member
- Nov 22, 2003
- 50,848
- 4,827
- 1,790
Teaching as we know it, is going to go the way of the Dodo bird. The internet explosion eliminates the need for massive facilities (baby sitting anyone?) , adminstration, school lunches, etc.. One teacher can teach millions of kids how to read. One teacher can teach millions of children how to do arithmatic. The student of the future will log on from home - watch a video lesson and take a test. They will even be able to ask questions and get answers to their questions (an added bonus is that the answers will be correct!). It will be efficient, effectivie, and far less costly.
Anyone considering a career in education should reconsider...
And the sooner the better.
Texas has an initiative to lower the cost of an undergraduate degree to $10,000 in total. The internet should be able to drive that cost down even further.
Internet degrees....
Oh because the brick and mortar have been so careful with honesty?
As for allowing the private sector bringing market forces to bear, seems the DOE has some explaining to do. This certainly wasn't for 'the children' or the taxpayers:Insider Trading at the Department of Education? - ProfessorBainbridge.com
- Thread starter
- Banned
- #340
Here's what is what should happen if we want to compare ourselves apples to apples with other countries. These are the students we measure:
1. Those truely gifted and motivated regardless of their real life situation and work very hard to succeed in school.
2. Those marginally gifted and motivated, but who have parents who push them relentlessly to succeed in school.
3. Those marginally gifted and motivated, but who have money to buy the best schools, tutors, degrees that show them having succeeded in school.
All others...fall by the wayside to low end jobs.
1. Those truely gifted and motivated regardless of their real life situation and work very hard to succeed in school.
2. Those marginally gifted and motivated, but who have parents who push them relentlessly to succeed in school.
3. Those marginally gifted and motivated, but who have money to buy the best schools, tutors, degrees that show them having succeeded in school.
All others...fall by the wayside to low end jobs.
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