Is Obama a socialist?

[xsited1]

That pretty much sums up McCain's campaign slogan.

McCain and Obama. Perhaps we should call them McObama or McCama.

 

[DavidS]

McCain and Obama. Perhaps we should call them McObama or McCama.

I like Obama's nickname for McCain already... George Bush.

 

[mattskramer]

Is Bush conservative. He is probably more of a conservative than is Obama. Yet, Bush is probably not as conservative than was Reagan. Obama is probably relatively socialistic. Yet, there are probably people with even more or stronger socialistic views than Obama has.

 

[9 Volt]

Bush is just as much of a socialist as Obama. Both are bad for America.

I've got a great idea! Let's replace a bad President with another bad President and call it change!!!

What do you mean by "Socialist"? It's a very broad term and many forms of Socialism have existed; some good, some bad. Would you consider Capitalism as the antithesis to Socialism? Are American retirees who use the Medicare system Socialists? Why did so many of your beloved GOP politicians recently vote for a Socialist solution to a Capitalist problem? You can't make evrything a polar issue.......

 

[xsited1]

What do you mean by "Socialist"? It's a very broad term and many forms of Socialism have existed; some good, some bad. Would you consider Capitalism as the antithesis to Socialism? Are American retirees who use the Medicare system Socialists? Why did so many of your beloved GOP politicians recently vote for a Socialist solution to a Capitalist problem? You can't make evrything a polar issue.......

You've got me confused with someone else. You said "Why did so many of your beloved GOP politicians..." I'm not GOP nor do I have any 'beloved GOP politicians.'

 

[xsited1]

I like Obama's nickname for McCain already... George Bush.

Not too witty, but okay. I like this:

 

[Jon]

I've been calling Obama a socialist since his campaign began. I don't really know what took everyone else so long to catch on.

 

[9 Volt]

You've got me confused with someone else. You said "Why did so many of your beloved GOP politicians..." I'm not GOP nor do I have any 'beloved GOP politicians.'

You called Bush and Obama socialists. It's clear you can't define the term...and not because you're not intelligent, but simply because it's a nebulous term. You can't throw a term where it doesn't stick.

 

[Jon]

Are American retirees who use the Medicare system Socialists?

American retirees paid into the system, now they are taking out what they put in. That's the opposite of what socialism is. Socialism is when people take out more than what they put in, or put in nothing and get everything they can out of it.

 

[del]

American retirees paid into the system, now they are taking out what they put in. That's the opposite of what socialism is. Socialism is when people take out more than what they put in, or put in nothing and get everything they can out of it.

if you think most retirees put into medicare/SS what they take out of it, you're delusional.

 

[Life_Long_Dem!]

NO Obama is NOT socialist, he has some progressive ideas, more than most of the middle of the road dems but he is not socialist, I was talking to a friend of mine that is far more to the left than i am and he said if Obama was socialist he might actually consider voting for him. I myself am EXTREMELY far left on all social issues and moderate to slightly left fiscally and even I know Obama is not socialism.

 

[xsited1]

You called Bush and Obama socialists. It's clear you can't define the term...and not because you're not intelligent, but simply because it's a nebulous term. You can't throw a term where it doesn't stick.

Actually, I said "Bush is just as much of a socialist as Obama." To the extent that they have socialistic tendencies, they are similar in some respects.

 

[9 Volt]

American retirees paid into the system, now they are taking out what they put in. That's the opposite of what socialism is. Socialism is when people take out more than what they put in, or put in nothing and get everything they can out of it.

Bullshit. We all pay for Social programs through taxation. Fact: Immigrants who have never paid into the Medicare system can subscribe to it through intermediaries.

 

[Jon]

Bullshit. We all pay for Social programs through taxation. Fact: Immigrants who have never paid into the Medicare system can subscribe to it through intermediaries.

Ah, now you're talking about immigrants who never paid into the system. That's a different story. Earlier you said American retirees. As a retiree, they would have paid into the system.

del, if you were to calculate the interest those retirees would have earned on what they paid into the Medicare system, they're taking out a lot less than what they could have had if they had invested that money elsewhere.

Medicare is a socialist program. It should be abolished. But since it's the system we have, I'll support anyone who uses it that paid into it: such as retirees. I want it abolished because there are people, as you pointed out, that take out of it and did not put into it. I feel the same way about Social Security. Social Security is a completely fucked system. I could make a lifetime's worth of money off investments with the money I put into SS, but instead I'm forced to pay into the system and earn next to nothing off it it.

 

[9 Volt]

American retirees paid into the system, now they are taking out what they put in. That's the opposite of what socialism is. Socialism is when people take out more than what they put in, or put in nothing and get everything they can out of it.

You have no idea how to even begin to define the term "socialism". It's obvious that you've allowed polarizing factions to turn this into a dirty word in your book. You would do well to think for yourself and do your own research rather then to listen to the rhetoric of political parties.

 

[Jon]

You have no idea how to even begin to define the term "socialism". It's obvious that you've allowed polarizing factions to turn this into a dirty word in your book. You would do well to think for yourself and do your own research rather then to listen to the rhetoric of political parties.

Trust me, I know what socialism is. I've studied finance and economics my entire life. Listen to the rhetoric of the political party? Exactly which political party am I listening to, considering I don't belong to any of them.

You'd do well to know who and what you're talking about before you start pointing fingers.

 

[Larkinn]

Ah, now you're talking about immigrants who never paid into the system. That's a different story. Earlier you said American retirees. As a retiree, they would have paid into the system.

del, if you were to calculate the interest those retirees would have earned on what they paid into the Medicare system, they're taking out a lot less than what they could have had if they had invested that money elsewhere.

Medicare is a socialist program. It should be abolished. But since it's the system we have, I'll support anyone who uses it that paid into it: such as retirees. I want it abolished because there are people, as you pointed out, that take out of it and did not put into it. I feel the same way about Social Security. Social Security is a completely fucked system. I could make a lifetime's worth of money off investments with the money I put into SS, but instead I'm forced to pay into the system and earn next to nothing off it it.

Right...I mean just look at how much money they all would have made if they have invested it into the stock market...

You don't make money off of it, because its stable. Because its guaranteed to be there by the government. This, yes keeps people from making more money with it, but it also keeps people from losing their money and having old people eating cat food.

 

[Jon]

Right...I mean just look at how much money they all would have made if they have invested it into the stock market...

I promise you, someone who began working 40 years ago and was putting that money into a retirement plan invested in the stock market would be a lot better off than what they're drawing from Medicare and Social Security. Today, yes, the stock market is uncertain. Over the last 40 years, it's done very well for itself.

You don't make money off of it, because its stable. Because its guaranteed to be there by the government. This, yes keeps people from making more money with it, but it also keeps people from losing their money and having old people eating cat food.

Which I refer back to self responsibility. If you're not responsible enough to wisely invest for your retirement: tough fucking shit. Why should I have to pay into the system because I belong to a society full of incapable, irresponsible idiots who don't take responsibility for themselves and their future?

I wouldn't mind social security if I had the option to opt out of it. Let those that want it to have it, and those that don't want it to handle their own retirements.

 

[Larkinn]

Which I refer back to self responsibility. If you're not responsible enough to wisely invest for your retirement: tough fucking shit.

Because everyone saw the market failing from a mile away, right? You say you have a background in investment and finance, congrats. Not everyone does, and that they lack that background doesn't mean they are stupid or irresponsible.

Why should I have to pay into the system because I belong to a society full of incapable, irresponsible idiots who don't take responsibility for themselves and their future?

Because the wealth that we have in our society means we should not be letting old people die in the street.

I wouldn't mind social security if I had the option to opt out of it. Let those that want it to have it, and those that don't want it to handle their own retirements.

Awesome idea. So the poor can opt out of it, because they need money now (which they do), and then starve to death when they hit 70.

 

[9 Volt]

Ah, now you're talking about immigrants who never paid into the system. That's a different story. Earlier you said American retirees. As a retiree, they would have paid into the system.

del, if you were to calculate the interest those retirees would have earned on what they paid into the Medicare system, they're taking out a lot less than what they could have had if they had invested that money elsewhere.

Medicare is a socialist program. It should be abolished. But since it's the system we have, I'll support anyone who uses it that paid into it: such as retirees. I want it abolished because there are people, as you pointed out, that take out of it and did not put into it. I feel the same way about Social Security. Social Security is a completely fucked system. I could make a lifetime's worth of money off investments with the money I put into SS, but instead I'm forced to pay into the system and earn next to nothing off it it.

So you are retracting your earlier statement that Medicare isn't a Socialist program? You make a good point about SS but I think this illustrates another, more important point: Not all social programs are created equally. Anyone who has ever worked in healthcare and billed medicare will tell you that they are the easiest payor to work with. They pay quickly, electronically and without dispute. This is more than I can say for most Private payors. Social security is a wreck.

You claim to be independent but it's clear that your view of "socialism" is one that has been driven by the fact that the GOP has turned this into a dirty word.