Is LeBron James the GOAT?

[rightwinger]

0

LeBron is heading to his 8th straight final with a weak supporting cast. LJ is getting it done in the modern era against much stronger players than the olden days. 7" Durant is playing point forward!

Wilt could catch lob and dunk. No one could play that high. Mugsy Bouges could play above the rim during Lebrons' era.

MJ had Pippen. JR Smith? Please. He of "black beavis and butthead". George Hill seems OK. Along with the heavy one, name escapes me?

The Greatest? He got Cleve a Title, no one else had done that. Down 3-1 to hot-shooting GS. LeBron is constantly winning me over. I used to be a doubter, but last night...he got it done again.

Elgin Baylor, Connie Hawkins and many others during Wilts day played above the rim.

They did, but it was a different game back then

Two handed set shot was still in use

At the same time the game was far more physical.

They weren’t anywhere close athletically to those playing today

A good HS team today would beat most NBA teams of the 50s

 

[DGS49]

LeBron is the greatest basketball player who ever lived. This is not a statistical observation, but a competitive one. No one else has ever taken more mediocre teams - personally - to the heights that LeBron has. MJ won championships with excellent teams, where he was the one player who took them "over the top." But LeBron CARRIES his teams, most of which have been barely playoff-level teams without him.

Tiger is the best golfer who ever lived, regardless of the number of "majors" he collects through the end of his career. No other golfer has dominated the way he did. Tiger's most important and noteworthy "statistic" is the number of tournaments he won after leading on Sunday morning. The answer is, basically, every one (there were a few fluke-ish exceptions). Every other top golfer goes into a fetal position when they bring a lead into Sunday. If they win/won a tournament, it was with a 72 or 73 on the final day, with the other players simply not able to catch up. Tiger played better on Sunday than he did from Thursday through Saturday, and by definition, that means he played best when the win was on the line. No question about it.

As for baseball players, there are too many variables to make a definitive case, but by any measures, Babe Ruth, Barry Bonds, Lou Gehrig, and Henry Aaron have to be considered.

For pure skills, I think today's players are quite a bit better than those who came before. Mike Trout would have been HOF in any era.

 

[IM2]

0

LeBron is heading to his 8th straight final with a weak supporting cast. LJ is getting it done in the modern era against much stronger players than the olden days. 7" Durant is playing point forward!

Wilt could catch lob and dunk. No one could play that high. Mugsy Bouges could play above the rim during Lebrons' era.

MJ had Pippen. JR Smith? Please. He of "black beavis and butthead". George Hill seems OK. Along with the heavy one, name escapes me?

The Greatest? He got Cleve a Title, no one else had done that. Down 3-1 to hot-shooting GS. LeBron is constantly winning me over. I used to be a doubter, but last night...he got it done again.

Elgin Baylor, Connie Hawkins and many others during Wilts day played above the rim.

They did, but it was a different game back then

Two handed set shot was still in use

At the same time the game was far more physical.

They weren’t anywhere close athletically to those playing today

A good HS team today would beat most NBA teams of the 50s

The thing is that most of the players today are the beneficiaries of the teaching of those back then. And training is different now as well.

 

[IM2]

LeBron is the greatest basketball player who ever lived. This is not a statistical observation, but a competitive one. No one else has ever taken more mediocre teams - personally - to the heights that LeBron has. MJ won championships with excellent teams, where he was the one player who took them "over the top." But LeBron CARRIES his teams, most of which have been barely playoff-level teams without him.

Tiger is the best golfer who ever lived, regardless of the number of "majors" he collects through the end of his career. No other golfer has dominated the way he did. Tiger's most important and noteworthy "statistic" is the number of tournaments he won after leading on Sunday morning. The answer is, basically, every one (there were a few fluke-ish exceptions). Every other top golfer goes into a fetal position when they bring a lead into Sunday. If they win/won a tournament, it was with a 72 or 73 on the final day, with the other players simply not able to catch up. Tiger played better on Sunday than he did from Thursday through Saturday, and by definition, that means he played best when the win was on the line. No question about it.

As for baseball players, there are too many variables to make a definitive case, but by any measures, Babe Ruth, Barry Bonds, Lou Gehrig, and Henry Aaron have to be considered.

For pure skills, I think today's players are quite a bit better than those who came before. Mike Trout would have been HOF in any era.

On a competitive level Jordan is far superior to Lebron. Lebron was on a superior team in the Miami Heat. And for 3 years in Cleveland he had 2 other all stars with him. As for baseball, don't forget Griffey Jr.

 

[sealybobo]

LeBron is the greatest basketball player who ever lived. This is not a statistical observation, but a competitive one. No one else has ever taken more mediocre teams - personally - to the heights that LeBron has. MJ won championships with excellent teams, where he was the one player who took them "over the top." But LeBron CARRIES his teams, most of which have been barely playoff-level teams without him.

Tiger is the best golfer who ever lived, regardless of the number of "majors" he collects through the end of his career. No other golfer has dominated the way he did. Tiger's most important and noteworthy "statistic" is the number of tournaments he won after leading on Sunday morning. The answer is, basically, every one (there were a few fluke-ish exceptions). Every other top golfer goes into a fetal position when they bring a lead into Sunday. If they win/won a tournament, it was with a 72 or 73 on the final day, with the other players simply not able to catch up. Tiger played better on Sunday than he did from Thursday through Saturday, and by definition, that means he played best when the win was on the line. No question about it.

As for baseball players, there are too many variables to make a definitive case, but by any measures, Babe Ruth, Barry Bonds, Lou Gehrig, and Henry Aaron have to be considered.

For pure skills, I think today's players are quite a bit better than those who came before. Mike Trout would have been HOF in any era.

Good post. Still I believe mj would have made lebron cramp up physically and mentally. He would have owned lebron and lebron not having that competitiveness in him would have taken it with class

 

[rightwinger]

0

LeBron is heading to his 8th straight final with a weak supporting cast. LJ is getting it done in the modern era against much stronger players than the olden days. 7" Durant is playing point forward!

Wilt could catch lob and dunk. No one could play that high. Mugsy Bouges could play above the rim during Lebrons' era.

MJ had Pippen. JR Smith? Please. He of "black beavis and butthead". George Hill seems OK. Along with the heavy one, name escapes me?

The Greatest? He got Cleve a Title, no one else had done that. Down 3-1 to hot-shooting GS. LeBron is constantly winning me over. I used to be a doubter, but last night...he got it done again.

Elgin Baylor, Connie Hawkins and many others during Wilts day played above the rim.

They did, but it was a different game back then

Two handed set shot was still in use

At the same time the game was far more physical.

They weren’t anywhere close athletically to those playing today

A good HS team today would beat most NBA teams of the 50s

The thing is that most of the players today are the beneficiaries of the teaching of those back then. And training is different now as well.

Much different

As are the steroids and HGH

 

[rightwinger]

LeBron is the greatest basketball player who ever lived. This is not a statistical observation, but a competitive one. No one else has ever taken more mediocre teams - personally - to the heights that LeBron has. MJ won championships with excellent teams, where he was the one player who took them "over the top." But LeBron CARRIES his teams, most of which have been barely playoff-level teams without him.

Tiger is the best golfer who ever lived, regardless of the number of "majors" he collects through the end of his career. No other golfer has dominated the way he did. Tiger's most important and noteworthy "statistic" is the number of tournaments he won after leading on Sunday morning. The answer is, basically, every one (there were a few fluke-ish exceptions). Every other top golfer goes into a fetal position when they bring a lead into Sunday. If they win/won a tournament, it was with a 72 or 73 on the final day, with the other players simply not able to catch up. Tiger played better on Sunday than he did from Thursday through Saturday, and by definition, that means he played best when the win was on the line. No question about it.

As for baseball players, there are too many variables to make a definitive case, but by any measures, Babe Ruth, Barry Bonds, Lou Gehrig, and Henry Aaron have to be considered.

For pure skills, I think today's players are quite a bit better than those who came before. Mike Trout would have been HOF in any era.

Good post. Still I believe mj would have made lebron cramp up physically and mentally. He would have owned lebron and lebron not having that competitiveness in him would have taken it with class

Hard to say

Lebron is a freak of nature. A beast
Hard to physically deal with him

 

[IM2]

0

Elgin Baylor, Connie Hawkins and many others during Wilts day played above the rim.

They did, but it was a different game back then

Two handed set shot was still in use

At the same time the game was far more physical.

They weren’t anywhere close athletically to those playing today

A good HS team today would beat most NBA teams of the 50s

The thing is that most of the players today are the beneficiaries of the teaching of those back then. And training is different now as well.

Much different

As are the steroids and HGH

True. Except steroids are nothing new.

 

[Ridgerunner]

No one older than bird and Johnson. Who’ve I missed?

Reggie Miller

Points 25,279 (18.2 ppg)
3-Pointers 2,560 (2nd all-time)
Assists 4,141 (3.0 apg)

 

[leftwinger]

They were all dunking, palming and putting on muscle by the late 80s' Spud Webb was dunking.

They started allowing charging and carrying the ball too IMVHO. No way ..... in the olden days.

Guys like Havlechek Stockton Sloan Barry were tough and good, but they had to work hard every minute. They culd not play like these modern athletes with 7' wingspans and giant hands.

Remeber DR.. J and all the ABA coming over in the 80s' ? Land O' Goshen!

Oscar Robertson was another great one from what I heard.

 

[IM2]

LeBron is the greatest basketball player who ever lived. This is not a statistical observation, but a competitive one. No one else has ever taken more mediocre teams - personally - to the heights that LeBron has. MJ won championships with excellent teams, where he was the one player who took them "over the top." But LeBron CARRIES his teams, most of which have been barely playoff-level teams without him.

Tiger is the best golfer who ever lived, regardless of the number of "majors" he collects through the end of his career. No other golfer has dominated the way he did. Tiger's most important and noteworthy "statistic" is the number of tournaments he won after leading on Sunday morning. The answer is, basically, every one (there were a few fluke-ish exceptions). Every other top golfer goes into a fetal position when they bring a lead into Sunday. If they win/won a tournament, it was with a 72 or 73 on the final day, with the other players simply not able to catch up. Tiger played better on Sunday than he did from Thursday through Saturday, and by definition, that means he played best when the win was on the line. No question about it.

As for baseball players, there are too many variables to make a definitive case, but by any measures, Babe Ruth, Barry Bonds, Lou Gehrig, and Henry Aaron have to be considered.

For pure skills, I think today's players are quite a bit better than those who came before. Mike Trout would have been HOF in any era.

Good post. Still I believe mj would have made lebron cramp up physically and mentally. He would have owned lebron and lebron not having that competitiveness in him would have taken it with class

Hard to say

Lebron is a freak of nature. A beast
Hard to physically deal with him

By todays rules LeBron is tough to deal with, but when Jordan played Lebron would be hitting the ground often. Now think about Jordan playing a game where he can't be hand checked and beat up going to the hole. There ain't no Charles Oakleys and those types who were the size of LeBron now who really had only one job, to beat you up when you came inside. Jordan might average 45 points a game by todays rules

 

[Ridgerunner]

They culd not play like these modern athletes with 7' wingspans and giant hands.

In the early 80's I had a part-time gig helping my BIL on Waikiki Beach... Wilt had a Condo across the street from where I was working and sometimes he would stop and get drink after tanning on the beach... Don't ask why he tanned, but he did... Anyway the point to the story is this man had hands that belonged in a circus... Unphucking believable is what they were... Actually he was a pretty nice guy... But his hands should have been registered lethal weapons...

 

[IM2]

They were all dunking, palming and putting on muscle by the late 80s' Spud Webb was dunking.

They started allowing charging and carrying the ball too IMVHO. No way ..... in the olden days.

Guys like Havlechek Stockton Sloan Barry were tough and good, but they had to work hard every minute. They culd not play like these modern athletes with 7' wingspans and giant hands.

Remeber DR.. J and all the ABA coming over in the 80s' ? Land O' Goshen!

Oscar Robertson was another great one from what I heard.

All these players work hard. Let's be real about that. And it's up to the refs to make calls.

 

[IM2]

They culd not play like these modern athletes with 7' wingspans and giant hands.

In the early 80's I had a part-time gig helping my BIL on Waikiki Beach... Wilt had a Condo across the street from where I was working and sometimes he would stop and get drink after tanning on the beach... Don't ask why he tanned, but he did... Anyway the point to the story is this man had hands that belonged in a circus... Unphucking believable is what they were... Actually he was a pretty nice guy... But his hands should have been registered lethal weapons...

Yeah you gotta wonder why he was tanning, but everybody likes to sit on the beach.

 

[rightwinger]

They culd not play like these modern athletes with 7' wingspans and giant hands.

In the early 80's I had a part-time gig helping my BIL on Waikiki Beach... Wilt had a Condo across the street from where I was working and sometimes he would stop and get drink after tanning on the beach... Don't ask why he tanned, but he did... Anyway the point to the story is this man had hands that belonged in a circus... Unphucking believable is what they were... Actually he was a pretty nice guy... But his hands should have been registered lethal weapons...

Andre the Giant sized?

 

[Ridgerunner]

Yeah you gotta wonder why he was tanning, but everybody likes to sit on the beach.

I always figured it was the potang… Wilt had quite a rep when it came to women and strangely enough there was women galore on the beach...

Andre the Giant sized?

Never seen Andre's hands in person so can't say...

 

[leftwinger]

GOAT used to be the one who "lost the game" with an error or choke or turnover.

 

[candycorn]

The NBA refereeing is so bastardized that it is hard to say. It used to be about the game. Now it's about entertainment. I wonder how Gervin, English, Russell, Chamberlain, and Oscar Robertson would fare today if they had the lackadaisical rules that the superstars benefit from today.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I always wanted to open a Luggage Concession and a Travel Agency at Market Square Arena because all of those NBA players were travelin'...

 

[IM2]

Yeah you gotta wonder why he was tanning, but everybody likes to sit on the beach.

I always figured it was the potang… Wilt had quite a rep when it came to women and strangely enough there was women galore on the beach...

Andre the Giant sized?

Never seen Andre's hands in person so can't say...

Yeah I think it was about the women. Can't say I blame him either.