Is Individual Greatness Osolete?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by code1211, May 15, 2010.

  1. code1211
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    code1211 Senior Member

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    Traveling back from a meeting, I was staring through a windshield which I find to be thought provoking for some reason.

    I was thinking about the Founders and the attacks their reputations have been subject to for the last 50 or so years. I was wondering why. People like Jefferson committed great aspirations to the activities of the everyday guy with soaring rhetoric and ideals that equalled the rhetoric. As a result, he was revered.

    Washington committed his life to a goal of creating a country and then walked away from Kingdom when it was offered in favor of allowing the ideals of the new country to grow. He, too, was revered.

    Franklin, Hamilton, Jackson, Grant, Lincoln, and others adorn our currency and were honored with monuments and legend.

    Fairly recently in our history, we have been informed that these people were hypocrites, drunks, slave owners and retrobates of every description and unworthy of our reverance. Is this the result of finding the truth amid the debris of legend or a concerted effort to discount the individual in favor of the collective?

    More recently, we are led to view people not as individuals but as members of a given race or gender or party or union or nationality or religion.

    Collectivism may not be Un-American, but Individualism is the most American thing that there is. Collectivism assumes that the individual cannot rise. That an individual, in truth, cannot even survive without significant help and support. "It Takes a Village".

    In the past, American Collectivism existed to clear away the obstacles so that the expended effort of individuals could lead to individual greatness. Now it seems that American collectivism has changed to demand that the efforts of the individual support the needs of the many.

    In order to justify this, the talented individual must be viewed as both corrupt and lucky and his rewards must be viewed as illegitimate and unearned.

    No individual can therefore be revered. Jefferson owned slaves and wrote about freedom. Hypocrite. Washington slept around. Whore. Franklin was a womanizer, Lincoln a bad spouse and absent father, Grant a drunk, Hamilton a coniving political hack.

    Carnegie, Ford, Firestone, Rockerfeller, Edison, Westinghouse and all the rest were draped in greatness when I was young and now are generally acknowledged to be the rapists of the landscape.

    Is Collectivism only possible when heroes are destroyed? Is Americanism possible when individual greatness is reviled?
     
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  2. California Girl
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    California Girl BANNED

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    I think it is because we are unable to separate the man from the deeds. We seem to expect any heroes to be without fault. When we discover that they have faults, instead of viewing that as as a demonstration of their human frailty, we use it as a reason to dismiss any greatness.
     
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  3. Skull Pilot
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    Skull Pilot Platinum Member

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    It seems to be the mantra of the liberal or secular progressive crowd to malign our history and focus on our mistakes and shortcomings rather than on our considerable achievements.

    Yesterday I heard some liberal commentator on the radio saying that the soldiers who fought in the Revolutionary War were terrorists of the same order as those who attacked on 9/11 and of the Times Sq. would be bomber. I was speechless.

    Of course we know that our side used guerrilla tactics against a larger and better equipped occupying army, but to equate them with modern day terrorists who attack and kill civilians was the longest stretch I have ever witnessed.

    The Revolutionary War was a civil war not a terrorist campaign to kill British civilians in hopes of destroying her.

    We stand at a fork in the road where we can either embrace the ideals that separated us from Europe and the rest of the world; the idea that individual rights are the highest good and that from protecting each individual we then protect all. Or we can choose the road that will lead us to commonality with Europe and the rest of the world where we will resemble Greece, Spain and Italy and lose our unique identity.

    To me the choice is clear.

    I am reminded of the poem
    We as a nation took the road less traveled and now that the way has become harder for some we seem to long to travel the well worn path that we know leads to European socialism and financial ruin.

    I ask you all to not stray from the harder path for the promise of an easier way as the harder paths always lead to the highest peaks and the greatest achievements.
     
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    Last edited: May 15, 2010
  4. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    The Germans thought pretty highly of Hitler.

    Yet according to some hereabout, Hitler was a socialist and a collectivist.

    So I guess that hero worshipping is a bad idea regardless of what economic system we're using.
     
  5. goldcatt
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    goldcatt Catch me if you can! Supporting Member

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    Truly individual greatness never existed except in myth. Even the "greatest" only acheive what they do because of others' contributions past and present. Admire their accomplishments, but keep a sense of perspective when they turn out to be human after all - as heroes always do.
     
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  6. uscitizen
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    uscitizen Senior Member

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    LOL. Our founding fathers were just people too.
    Not omnificient gods or something able to forsee all twists in the future and making sure the constitution covered them.

    Most of them had their own agenda for wanting to break away from England.
     
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  7. Truthmatters
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    Truthmatters BANNED

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    Its seems the religious right is having problems with reality.

    Imagine that?

    Now that their own have been proven over and over again to not be so..........well...........morally pure, they are trying to figure out how to reconcile all this.

    They pretend stating reality is bad and fantasy should be the aim.

    Our founders were human beings not gods.

    Our leaders now are human beings not gods.


    You are human beings not gods.

    Dont pretend you can say you are MORE MORAL than other people.



    You are not.


    Your religion does not give you a pass.



    Now can we just act like adults and use ALL THE FACTS and make decisions that help this country in the laong run as well as the short term?


    You see the republicans always just want to think two days ahead.

    Lets be adults and use science, history and facts to make our decisions for the future.

    Lets be willing to pay more taxes to fix the messes that constant "tax cuts" have left us.


    MAN UP AND PAY YOUR FAIR SHARE AND STOP WHINING ABOUT ME ME ME!
     
  8. saveliberty
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    saveliberty Diamond Member

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    A hero is precisely one because of the deed they do and overcoming the limits of their own abilities and character. One of the most amazing things about the Founders for me had been looking at the sacrifices and effort they made to create this nation and its foundation, only to allow us all the liberties to potentially destroy that creation.
     
  9. Truthmatters
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    Truthmatters BANNED

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    Now you know why it was so fucking stupid to spend MILLIONS on a blow job
     
  10. saveliberty
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    saveliberty Diamond Member

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    You started out talking about religion and then drifted into liberals at the end. Please use better paragraph structure.
     

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