Is Individual Greatness Osolete?

[The T]

Billionaires are not the problem. The problem is in those who choose to envy and despise the billionaires while wanting somebody else to improve their own circumstances. No billionaire got to be a billionaire with that attitude.

What the Founders gave us was a system in which anybody could aspire to be a billionaire or anything else they wanted to be so long as they did it without trampling on the rights of others.

Bullshit, they want a living wage, and reward for the work that makes the owners and CEOs make their billions in the first place. how do you defend scum that outsource jobs to make more money than they even need to live lushly? screw teh american worker? Cut benefits, etc, all while they continue to make absurds amounts of money? How do you defend cutting jobs at the slightest little downturn, to keep the CEO salaries super high, but in prosperous times don't pass anything on to their employees?

Just another GOP propaganda bulllshit, that its all the middle class's problem. What about the fact that CEOs make 400X their avg worker salary, while in prosperous times it was 40X?

Really? And whom sets the precident of what the CEO's make?

Can you answer that question?

I restate the question by the addition that it is not the scope nor purpose of the Imperial Federal Government to have a say in the matters of a private entity.

And if anyone thinks that they do need to go re-register in Civics 101...something you should have learned in GRADE SCHOOL.

 

[Dr Gregg]

Bullshit, they want a living wage, and reward for the work that makes the owners and CEOs make their billions in the first place. how do you defend scum that outsource jobs to make more money than they even need to live lushly? screw teh american worker? Cut benefits, etc, all while they continue to make absurds amounts of money? How do you defend cutting jobs at the slightest little downturn, to keep the CEO salaries super high, but in prosperous times don't pass anything on to their employees?

Just another GOP propaganda bulllshit, that its all the middle class's problem. What about the fact that CEOs make 400X their avg worker salary, while in prosperous times it was 40X?

How about you don't focus on those who have succeeded, and focus on those who have established policy to make it so much more difficult for others to succeed. Let's start with politicians and union leaders who do not attach value earned to wages and benefits but rather ingratiate themselves to certain constituencies by establishing artificial wages and benefits. Let's look at policy that so unnecessarily regulates certain industries or so favors one over another than the playing field is neither level nor fair.

These are why jobs are leaving America and going overseas. You definitely misplace your anger and misplace the blame by accusing the wealthy. You could confiscate ALL the wealth of ALL the billionaires and multi-millionaires and you wouldn't have enough money to keep even one large American corporation going for more than a year or two. And if you did that, you would see millions of jobs disappear immediately.

Don't despise those who have achieved greatness no matter how unfair you believe it to be. Be grateful that you live in a country in which anyone can aspire to greatness, and focus your energies on fighting against those who seem determined to take that away from us.

more defending of greedy assholes, and more bullshit talking points you hear from the right all too often. Yeah, we get it, regulation is bad, which protects people from businesses, which have a history and track record of fucking the people over and not acting responsibly. hence why their needs to be regulation. How can you defend outsourcing jobs so they can make absurds amount of money and fuck the american people and this country that has given them the right and ability to succeed? Yes, its all regulations, those poor millionaires. YOu guys just eat that bullshit the GOP has been feeding your for decades. Amazing thing is I bet most of you are not wealthy, and likely are being fucked by the greed also. WHich I dont' get why you would defend it.

NO, can't possibly blame the greed at the top that keeps hoarding most of the money.


And someone above mentioned how much should they make. do you see me anywhere arguing there should be a cap or regulate how much money they make? They should be responsible, cause economies crumble when the top get all the money and resources.

 

[The T]

Bullshit, they want a living wage, and reward for the work that makes the owners and CEOs make their billions in the first place. how do you defend scum that outsource jobs to make more money than they even need to live lushly? screw teh american worker? Cut benefits, etc, all while they continue to make absurds amounts of money? How do you defend cutting jobs at the slightest little downturn, to keep the CEO salaries super high, but in prosperous times don't pass anything on to their employees?

Just another GOP propaganda bulllshit, that its all the middle class's problem. What about the fact that CEOs make 400X their avg worker salary, while in prosperous times it was 40X?

How about you don't focus on those who have succeeded, and focus on those who have established policy to make it so much more difficult for others to succeed. Let's start with politicians and union leaders who do not attach value earned to wages and benefits but rather ingratiate themselves to certain constituencies by establishing artificial wages and benefits. Let's look at policy that so unnecessarily regulates certain industries or so favors one over another than the playing field is neither level nor fair.

These are why jobs are leaving America and going overseas. You definitely misplace your anger and misplace the blame by accusing the wealthy. You could confiscate ALL the wealth of ALL the billionaires and multi-millionaires and you wouldn't have enough money to keep even one large American corporation going for more than a year or two. And if you did that, you would see millions of jobs disappear immediately.

Don't despise those who have achieved greatness no matter how unfair you believe it to be. Be grateful that you live in a country in which anyone can aspire to greatness, and focus your energies on fighting against those who seem determined to take that away from us.

more defending of greedy assholes, and more bullshit talking points you hear from the right all too often. Yeah, we get it, regulation is bad, which protects people from businesses, which have a history and track record of fucking the people over and not acting responsibly. hence why their needs to be regulation. How can you defend outsourcing jobs so they can make absurds amount of money and fuck the american people and this country that has given them the right and ability to succeed? Yes, its all regulations, those poor millionaires. YOu guys just eat that bullshit the GOP has been feeding your for decades. Amazing thing is I bet most of you are not wealthy, and likely are being fucked by the greed also. WHich I dont' get why you would defend it.

NO, can't possibly blame the greed at the top that keeps hoarding most of the money.


And someone above mentioned how much should they make. do you see me anywhere arguing there should be a cap or regulate how much money they make? They should be responsible, cause economies crumble when the top get all the money and resources.

Wrongo. If the companies are perceived as greedy by the public? ______________________happens?

Consult the free market. Something you sorely LACK.

 

[The T]

And by the way Greggie?

You should look at the TOP folks in the Legislature, and even Obama and their worth? And these people are IN BED with alot of corporations...yet *I* read ZERO from you regarding this.

Now WHY is that? I think your *ire* is mis directed at who really makes policies.

 

[code1211]

One of the most prosperous timesin this country, when the middle class was booming. THe graph that shows money discrepencies between the top 10% and the rest shows prior to the great depression, the top 10% had so much more than the rest, which during the exploding middle class was much narrower. And now, the top 10% is even higher than it was pre-depression, and look where our economy is. Thriving middle class keeps us strong, keeps economy chugging. Not filth rich fat cats hording more and more money. Don't get why people defend billionaires

Billionaires are not the problem. The problem is in those who choose to envy and despise the billionaires while wanting somebody else to improve their own circumstances. No billionaire got to be a billionaire with that attitude.

What the Founders gave us was a system in which anybody could aspire to be a billionaire or anything else they wanted to be so long as they did it without trampling on the rights of others.

Bullshit, they want a living wage, and reward for the work that makes the owners and CEOs make their billions in the first place. how do you defend scum that outsource jobs to make more money than they even need to live lushly? screw teh american worker? Cut benefits, etc, all while they continue to make absurds amounts of money? How do you defend cutting jobs at the slightest little downturn, to keep the CEO salaries super high, but in prosperous times don't pass anything on to their employees?

Just another GOP propaganda bulllshit, that its all the middle class's problem. What about the fact that CEOs make 400X their avg worker salary, while in prosperous times it was 40X?

I've heard that before. It's bvery probable that today's large corporations are far larger than the large corporations of the past. If the top executives of companies of the past presided over a workforce that was one tenth of the today's, that might explain why their pay is now ten times as high. I don't know that this is the case.

However, the scale of the companies in today's world is immense. The top executives in these immense companies seem to be getting paid very high sums of money and every city seems to have some very extended, very nice neighborhoods which are not comprised of these top executives.

The rest of us can do okay. Many of us do. Why begrudge those who have grabbed the brass ring? They probably have a skill set that allows them to do this. Given the chance, most of us would examine their life and refuse to do what they do to support theirs.

 

[The T]

Billionaires are not the problem. The problem is in those who choose to envy and despise the billionaires while wanting somebody else to improve their own circumstances. No billionaire got to be a billionaire with that attitude.

What the Founders gave us was a system in which anybody could aspire to be a billionaire or anything else they wanted to be so long as they did it without trampling on the rights of others.

Bullshit, they want a living wage, and reward for the work that makes the owners and CEOs make their billions in the first place. how do you defend scum that outsource jobs to make more money than they even need to live lushly? screw teh american worker? Cut benefits, etc, all while they continue to make absurds amounts of money? How do you defend cutting jobs at the slightest little downturn, to keep the CEO salaries super high, but in prosperous times don't pass anything on to their employees?

Just another GOP propaganda bulllshit, that its all the middle class's problem. What about the fact that CEOs make 400X their avg worker salary, while in prosperous times it was 40X?

I've heard that before. It's bvery probable that today's large corporations are far larger than the large corporations of the past. If the top executives of companies of the past presided over a workforce that was one tenth of the today's, that might explain why their pay is now ten times as high. I don't know that this is the case.

However, the scale of the companies in today's world is immense. The top executives in these immense companies seem to be getting paid very high sums of money and every city seems to have some very extended, very nice neighborhoods which are not comprised of these top executives.

The rest of us can do okay. Many of us do. Why begrudge those who have grabbed the brass ring? They probably have a skill set that allows them to do this. Given the chance, most of us would examine their life and refuse to do what they do to support theirs.

Exactly. And by the way? *IF* the shareholders [whom are the heart of ANY company] had a problem? They'd state so...they are mini-Democracies in their own right and know the price if they screw up.

Their investments get SUNK...as would they.

 

[Foxfyre]

For a great illustration of what 'greatness' is I recommend Brad Melzer's new book Heroes for My Son.

In it are such illustrations as the Wright Brothers who are heroes - achieved greatness - not for making the first airplane that could fly, but because of all the crashes and rebuilding they did again and again and again before they achieved that historical successful flight. Those who cannot appreciate greatness look at all those failures. Those who understand greatness appreciate the risk and effort that finally achieved success despite many failures.

George Washington is there not because he was a Founding Father or because he was the first President. He could have been President for life and in so doing become a quasi king. But instead he trusted the people, served his time, and then walked away and went home. In giving up all that prestige and glory, he demonstrated in his own life that the principle would work. Had he stayed in office when all urged him to do so, it might have come apart at the seams very early.

Thomas Jefferson is there not because he penned the Declaration of Independence or because he was such an important force in the development of the U.S. Constitution. He is there because he took credit for none of that, never used it as an excuse for personal advancement or gain, never brought it up to elevate himself. He was a true public servant knowing that we are all in it together equally or the vision would not work.