Is Hellfire A Bible Teaching?

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by Alter2Ego, Apr 13, 2012.

  1. Alter2Ego
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    Alter2Ego Member

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    ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:

    The teaching of hellfire is commonplace in Christendom and non-Christian religions. This teaching defames the Creator and portrays him as a sadist who tortures people in flames of fire for all eternity—as punishment for wrongdoing committed during the relatively brief human lifespan. The hellfire dogma was brought into Christianity by the Roman Catholics who copied it from pagan religions. (Pagans are those who do not worship the God of the Judeo-Christian Bible.)

    The Bible makes it clear as to how God views the ritual burning of people. Jehovah ended up rejecting the ancient Israelites after they got involved with pagan worship, which included burning their children to death.


    "And they [the Israelites/sons of Judah] have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, a thing that I had not commanded and that HAD NOT COME UP INTO MY HEART." (Jeremiah 7:31)


    "{58} And they kept offending him with their high places, and with their graven images they kept inciting him to jealousy. {59} God heard and got to be furious, and he condemned Israel very much. {60} And he finally forsook the tabernacle of Shiloh, the tent in which he resided among earthling men."
    (Psalms 78:58-60)


    The scriptures indicate that hell is nothing more than mankind’s common grave. Proof of this is provided by a verse of scripture in the Bible, which no hellfire-believing Christian can explain away. I’m referring to the scripture that says Jesus Christ--the epitome of a perfect, sinless, and obedient man--died and went to hell.


    "{21} In fact, to this course you were called, because even Christ suffered for you, leaving you a model for you to follow his steps closely. {22} He committed no sin, nor was deception found in his mouth." (1 Peter 2:21-22)


    "He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that HIS SOUL WAS NOT LEFT IN HELL, neither his flesh did see corruption."
    (Acts 2:31--King James Version)


    NOTE #1: The Bible uses the word "fire" symbolically to indicate cleansing OR permanent death OR permanent destruction. In the few times when the Bible used the word "fire" literally, it was with reference to events such as the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah--at which point, the individuals did not suffer eternal torment, they died immediately.

    NOTE #2: the words "Hell" and "Hades" and "Sheol" and "Pit" are synonyms that mean THE GRAVE (of mankind).

    NOTE #3: "High Places" as used in the scriptures that I quote in this thread refer to the worship of the false gods.


    DISCUSSION QUESTIONS:
    1.
    According to Jeremiah 7:31, did Jehovah command the ancient Israelites to burn anyone in the fire?

    2. According to Jeremiah 7:31, did the burning of people come to God's heart?

    3. According to Jeremiah 7:31 and Psalms 78:58-59, did the ancient Israelites offend God by getting involved with false worship in their "high places", which included burning people to death?

    4. According to those who teach hellfire torment, hell is a place for people who are wicked and sinful. If Hellfire is for wicked people, why did Jesus spend three days in hell--considering that it says at 1 Peter 2:22 that he did not commit any sin?

    5. Jesus obeyed Jehovah and died a slow and torturous death for mankind. Hadn't he suffered enough? He'd suffered terribly--because of being obedient to his Heavenly Father. So why was he being punished again with burning hellfire? What's the logic for punishing him all over again?

    6. Recall that after Jesus' resurrection, he appeared and spoke to several of his faithful apostles on different occasions before he returned to heaven. Why is it that Jesus made no mention to any of his apostles--after his resurrection--that he went to hell where he burned for three days?

    7. When people are being tortured in hellfire, wouldn't they have to KNOW or be conscious/aware of the fact that they are being burned? I mean to say, what's the point of punishing people in hell if they aren't even aware?

    8. Those who believe in eternal torment say that the person's soul is being burned forever. What is the soul? Is it something separate from the person's body? Are animals souls also or is this only for humans?
     
  2. syrenn
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    oh good lord.
     
  3. ABikerSailor
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    ABikerSailor Platinum Member

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    Actually, one of the things found in the recently discovered Lost Gospels of Thomas is that eventually everyone is going to get out. It tells a story of him being taken down there by an angel and shown, and told that eventually everyone will come out.

    And, you're right...........the Christians kinda screwed up the original concept when they re-wrote the Bible, because the Jewish faith doesn't recognize hell specifically, they look at it as kind of a place where you are purified by fire BEFORE re-entering Heaven.

    As far as the current Christian concept of hell? You can thank Dante and his Divine Comedy for that.
     
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  4. Alter2Ego
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    Alter2Ego Member

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    ALTER2EGO -to- A BIKER SAILOR:

    You mean the writings were claimed to have been written by Thomas.

    Since the Bible does not support the hellfire dogma in that Jesus Christ never taught it and none of his early disciples taught it, there is no way any "recently discovered Lost Gospels" could have been written by one of Christ's early followers in which it's stated "everyone is going to get out" (from hell).

    Notice the scriptures in my opening posts, which indicate Jehovah condemned the ritual burning of people. Clearly, Almighty God would not condemn ritual burning and then turn around and do even worse than those he condemned. If Jehovah were to burn people for all eternity--and get this--for sins committed during the relatively short human life span, that, in and of itself, would violate God's righteousness and make him unjust.


    "The Rock, perfect is his activity, for all his ways are JUSTICE. A God of faithfulness, with whom there is no injustice; righteous and upright is he." (Deuteronomy 32:4)


    ALTER2EGO -to- A BIKER SAILOR:

    The Bible was not rewritten by Christians. It was translated into other languages, and in some instances, dishonest translators slipped in fabricated words here and there--known as translation blunders. But these blunders have been discovered and removed from many Bibles.
     
  5. ABikerSailor
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    Actually, they tested them, and from all the data they gathered, it's genuine.

    As far as the Bible NOT being re-written by Christians? Really? Ever hear of the Niecine Council? During that time the Bible was HEAVILY edited.

    And, if all the blunders had been removed as you state, why is it that in the original Hebrew Text shows them rather glaringly?

    Genesis 1:1 in the KJV says "in THE beginning". In the original Hebrew it translates "in A beginning".

    When God told Abraham to take his son up to be sacrificed, in the Hebrew, God asks Abraham "please".

    There's also the little problem with one of the 10 Commandments, the one that states "thou shalt not kill", actually translated from Hebrew it's "thou shalt not MURDER".

    Oh yeah........there's also the problem with calling them the 10 Commandments, because again (translated from the Hebrew) it's not the 10 Commandments, but rather the 10 Utterances.

    And, that's just for starters....................

    Good tip for you if you've got cable, go to God's Learning Channel (a spiritual channel) and look for a program called "Hidden in the Hebrew with Uri Harel".

    You'll learn a lot.
     
  6. Youwerecreated
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    Totally agree with everything you say.

    Every living breathing animal or human are a soul. There is no invisible force within our body.
     
  7. Youwerecreated
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    Thou shall not kill is a bad translation that is correct.
     
  8. Ariux
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    [​IMG]

    That oven is where the pagan Jews would throw children, probably after raping them.
     
  9. Alter2Ego
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    ALTER2EGO -to- A BIKER SAILOR:
    You can argue for people who are obviously making false claims about newly discovered Bible manuscripts—supposedly written by Thomas—from now until the cows come home. Believe what you wish. In addition to the four scriptures in my OP that contradict the hellfire dogma, I can present more than a dozen additional scriptures that contradict the hellfire dogma. You're coming up with a single supposedly "newly discovered book written by Thomas" that contradicts scriptures that have been confirmed as genuine for centuries. And I'm supposed to buy what these scholars are now saying! Truth be told, your "scholars" are speculating. Furthermore, the Bible does not contradict itself. That is a fact.


    ALTER2EGO -to- A BIKER SAILOR:
    I am quite familiar with the Council of Nicaea. They had nothing to do with rewriting scriptures. They were involved with the formulation of the false, 3-prong trinity god. I will be starting a thread on that topic soon, by the way. I am presently prevented from doing so, because my opening post includes weblinks. I cannot start threads or post anything with URLs until after I've posted 15 times on this forum.


    ALTER2EGO -to- A BIKER SAILOR:
    What you are describing are translation blunders (or translation errors) in some instances. In other instances, you are describing translator word choices. In the latter instance involving "word choices," translators relay the correct meaning using different choices of words. Whenever translators use the incorrect word, that's considered a "blunder."


    Remember, the original writings were done in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. The copies of the Hebrew manuscripts is not where the error is. The error is in the English translation when a translator makes a blunder and uses the wrong English word.

    For instance, the scripture that you mentioned from the 10 Commandments is written in various ways according to certain Bible translators' choices of words. There's nothing wrong with using different choices of words to say the same thing. The problem comes into play when the wrong words are used.

    Below are a few examples from various Bible versions. Notice that the first five Bibles on the list below gave the correct translation--using different choices of words--by rendering the word as "murder." Notice that the last three made a translation blunder with the word "kill."


    VARIOUS TRANSLATIONS OF EXODUS 20:13


    New World Translation
    "You must not murder."

    New International Version
    "You shall not murder."

    GOD'S WORD Translation
    "Never murder."

    Young's Literal Translation
    "Thou dost not murder."

    English Revised Version
    "Thou shalt do no murder."

    King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
    "Thou shalt not kill."

    Webster's Bible Translation
    "Thou shalt not kill."

    Darby Bible Translation
    "Thou shalt not kill."
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2012
  10. MaryL
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    MaryL Gold Member

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    I love this thread. It is a perfect example of ambiguity. Just like the bible. Its just a bunch of maybe sorta kinda perhaps depends ambivalent BS. I hate equivocation, I understand why people need to think like this. Please - please give us an HONEST answer. Do you believe that tripe? After YOU take your last breath, do you really believe there is an afterlife of ANY kind, let alone some divine punishment? Simple yes or or no will suffice. Another question, what difference does it make if god does exist? Otherwise, isn't this just a waste of time ?
     

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